public opinion has been kinder to Stalin than Hitler. But one historian looks at Stalin's mass killings and urges that the definition of genocide be

[Votto]

his makes Stalin better? LOL.

The Allies declared war on Hitler why again? Because he invaded Poland. Well guess who else invaded Poland? Anyone? You guessed it, Stalin. Hitler agreed with Stalin to divide the country, so why only declare war on Hitler again? It was because they hoped at some point Hitler would turn on Stalin, which he did.

Or they recognized that declaring war on the USSR would force them to join the Axis, and then the allies would be screwed.

The problem was in the early stages of WWII, the Allies were hoping it would be like World War I, they'd bog down the Germans on the Western Front until their economy collapsed. Of course, the main reason why it didn't was because until Hitler invaded the USSR, they were continuing to trade with Stalin and meat many of their resource needs.

So the reasons why Stalin is put in so much better a light is:

1. He later joined the Allies to defeat Hitler
2. He was on the winning side.
3. He got to help write the history books
4. Marxism had become mainstream in the world.

Actually, here's the reality. In World War II, Stalin and the USSR did most of the heavy lifting. But this offends our sensibilities that the only reason why Capitalism didn't fall to Fascism was because the Communists saved it. We just looked in horror as we found that the Communists were in a better position after the war and had more street cred than the failing Capitalist Empires that let Hitler and the Japanese run amok to start with.

But the dirty little secret is, Marxism has murdered far more people in the world than Nazism, simply because it is embraced around the world, like how BLM today embraces it. Conversely, Nazism is seen as evil for obvious reasons, but the main was is it lost WW2.

The problem is, the only way you guys get to the "Marxism murdered millions" numbers is if you include every famine and war in the numbers. So you guys will bitch about the Ukraine famine, which was a case of criminal incompetence, but you won't talk about the Bengal famine of 1942, which killed millions as well.

When Churchill heard about the Bengal Famine, he joked, "Has Gandhi starved yet?" Yup. In Churchill's worldview, Gandhi was as bad as Hitler as a threat to British supremacy.

From my vantage point, the difference between Hitler and Stalin was, Hitler was simply smarter than Stalin, in that Hitler understood that bureaucrats can't even run government right, so how can they add to the list industry to run? Hitler allowed the experts to run industry, so long as he could control them, which he did 100%. As Hitler would say, "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" And Stalin was a little smarter than Hitler in that he did not spend time and money targeting races of people. At the end of the day though, they both deserved each other.

The simple reality is, the state has murdered more people than any other institution in human history. It's not even close. And the religious wars that are blamed on religion were conducted by the state as well. This is something that those who idolize the state and look to the state for all moral direction don't understand. What you don't understand is the corrupt nature of man, and the inevitable outcome if given power. This is why at every turn you look to empower the state further, whether it be with taxes or censoring free speech like you are doing now, etc. The scary part is, no amount of evidence can smack you upside the head to accept this. You really believe that those in government, that is in your Stalinist party, are good at heart with good intentions and thus just need more power to "get things done" and you will have your utopia.

 

[Moonglow]

Yet, in the last years of the war he had Albert Speer direct production.

 

[Votto]

It doesn't take a Marxist to commit murder and genocide, hell the US did it and we were not Marxist or communist.

Power corrupts. That is what Marxists and Left wingers like you can never seem to fathom. Why did the Founding Fathers try to redistribute power in the Republic they founded? It was to get away from a centralized all powerful king who will, not maybe will, abuse their power. So they tried to create checks and balances to help ensure centralized all powerful control was difficult to achieve. However, this makes government more inefficient, and this made Progressives like President Wilson and FDR openly disdain the Constitution and help create the centralized all powerful government the US has now. Now the US government has become so centralized that the President now decides everything from what doctor we will have to what teacher will educate our children. And the President now simply declares edicts rather than letting Congress laws. Now Presidents like FDR can imprison innocent Americans at the drop of a hat, even when it is based on race, with no push back from anyone.

In short, Wilson and FDR started to become what they were fighting in Germany. In fact, much of what Progressives are doing today is based on the Hitler model in regards to economics, and building world conquering armies. Now pretty much every President, aside from Trump, starts a war around the world.

One doesn't need to be a Marxist to be a total tyrant, there were tyrants before Marx was ever born, long, long before Marx was born. Your attempts to make me and anyone else a bad person because you need a bogeyman is laughable at best.

The reason that the vast number of modern day murderous despots have turned to Marxism, is not because they loved Marx. They turned to Marxism because in order for Marxism to work, the state must have unyielding all consuming power over society to try and make it work. Imagine the power needed for every financial transaction to be monitored by the state, and latter assessed to redistribute funds. Also, you need to same kind of power to cancel people who say and think the wrong things as well as censor them. But as for Marxism itself, they have no interest. Marx is just a cheap whore for them.

 

[Moonglow]

The simple reality is, the state has murdered more people than any other institution in human history.

That is not correct, it was God who killed and murdered more humans in the history of mankind.

 

[Litwin]

......hitler started and continued the greatest destructive/murderous/rapping-robbing/etc event ever--so, it's normal for someone like that to get highest attention......Stalin did not send troops and sailors all over the world for war/killing/etc like hitler did

Yes he did; think China, SE Asia and Eastern Europe. Without Stalin there is no Mao; MILLIONS murdered.

No; Hitler and Stalin I use in the same breath............................. and spit!!!

btw: most of the dirty work was done by useful but expendable idiots; think DemoKKKrats.

Greg

The Mongol Khans of the empire make Stalin look like an amateur.

Mongols connected east and west, created china and Muscovy, what koba left behind? unproductive slavery , hungry 1/2 of the planet ....

So did God when he flooded the planet to kill off the Nephilim..

“I am the punishment of God... If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” “It is not sufficient that I succeed - all others must fail.”

Genghis Khan Quotes “I am the punishment of God...If you had ..

 

[Litwin]

It doesn't take a Marxist to commit murder and genocide, hell the US did it and we were not Marxist or communist.

Power corrupts. That is what Marxists and Left wingers like you can never seem to fathom. Why did the Founding Fathers try to redistribute power in the Republic they founded? It was to get away from a centralized all powerful king who will, not maybe will, abuse their power. So they tried to create checks and balances to help ensure centralized all powerful control was difficult to achieve. However, this makes government more inefficient, and this made Progressives like President Wilson and FDR openly disdain the Constitution and help create the centralized all powerful government the US has now. Now the US government has become so centralized that the President now decides everything from what doctor we will have to what teacher will educate our children. And the President now simply declares edicts rather than letting Congress laws. Now Presidents like FDR can imprison innocent Americans at the drop of a hat, even when it is based on race, with no push back from anyone.

In short, Wilson and FDR started to become what they were fighting in Germany. In fact, much of what Progressives are doing today is based on the Hitler model in regards to economics, and building world conquering armies. Now pretty much every President, aside from Trump, starts a war around the world.

One doesn't need to be a Marxist to be a total tyrant, there were tyrants before Marx was ever born, long, long before Marx was born. Your attempts to make me and anyone else a bad person because you need a bogeyman is laughable at best.

The reason that the vast number of modern day murderous despots have turned to Marxism, is not because they loved Marx. They turned to Marxism because in order for Marxism to work, the state must have unyielding all consuming power over society to try and make it work. Imagine the power needed for every financial transaction to be monitored by the state, and latter assessed to redistribute funds. Also, you need to same kind of power to cancel people who say and think the wrong things as well as censor them. But as for Marxism itself, they have no interest. Marx is just a cheap whore for them.

Marxism = absolute power

 

[Moonglow]

It doesn't take a Marxist to commit murder and genocide, hell the US did it and we were not Marxist or communist.

Power corrupts. That is what Marxists and Left wingers like you can never seem to fathom. Why did the Founding Fathers try to redistribute power in the Republic they founded? It was to get away from a centralized all powerful king who will, not maybe will, abuse their power. So they tried to create checks and balances to help ensure centralized all powerful control was difficult to achieve. However, this makes government more inefficient, and this made Progressives like President Wilson and FDR openly disdain the Constitution and help create the centralized all powerful government the US has now. Now the US government has become so centralized that the President now decides everything from what doctor we will have to what teacher will educate our children. And the President now simply declares edicts rather than letting Congress laws. Now Presidents like FDR can imprison innocent Americans at the drop of a hat, even when it is based on race, with no push back from anyone.

In short, Wilson and FDR started to become what they were fighting in Germany. In fact, much of what Progressives are doing today is based on the Hitler model in regards to economics, and building world conquering armies. Now pretty much every President, aside from Trump, starts a war around the world.

One doesn't need to be a Marxist to be a total tyrant, there were tyrants before Marx was ever born, long, long before Marx was born. Your attempts to make me and anyone else a bad person because you need a bogeyman is laughable at best.

The reason that the vast number of modern day murderous despots have turned to Marxism, is not because they loved Marx. They turned to Marxism because in order for Marxism to work, the state must have unyielding all consuming power over society to try and make it work. Imagine the power needed for every financial transaction to be monitored by the state, and latter assessed to redistribute funds. But as for Marxism itself, they have no interest. Marx is just a cheap whore for them.

I have yet to see a real Marxist nation...I have seen attempts yet they were not a solid Marxist operation. Considering that Marx wanted a capitalist society to be overthrown and turned into a socialist state and then morph into a stateless state of communism. No where in the world has that ever happened...

 

[Votto]

Yet, in the last years of the war he had Albert Speer direct production.

As I said, Hitler allowed the experts to remain in control in industry, when Stalin had them all murdered.

Hitler still controlled industry even though he did not own them in name like Stalin.

You are just proving my point is all.

And today, in the US are corporations private? Like in Nazi Germany, corporations are private in name but now censor all speech that opposing the DNC, but if a corporation goes belly up the government is there to bail them out. They have each others back.

Yea, today's Leftist has a Hitler like view of the use of corporations. Just keep the experts in place to do their job, and government will leave them alone so long as they tow the party line.

Today's censoring on social media is no different than now the Nazis burned books.

 

[Votto]

It doesn't take a Marxist to commit murder and genocide, hell the US did it and we were not Marxist or communist.

Power corrupts. That is what Marxists and Left wingers like you can never seem to fathom. Why did the Founding Fathers try to redistribute power in the Republic they founded? It was to get away from a centralized all powerful king who will, not maybe will, abuse their power. So they tried to create checks and balances to help ensure centralized all powerful control was difficult to achieve. However, this makes government more inefficient, and this made Progressives like President Wilson and FDR openly disdain the Constitution and help create the centralized all powerful government the US has now. Now the US government has become so centralized that the President now decides everything from what doctor we will have to what teacher will educate our children. And the President now simply declares edicts rather than letting Congress laws. Now Presidents like FDR can imprison innocent Americans at the drop of a hat, even when it is based on race, with no push back from anyone.

In short, Wilson and FDR started to become what they were fighting in Germany. In fact, much of what Progressives are doing today is based on the Hitler model in regards to economics, and building world conquering armies. Now pretty much every President, aside from Trump, starts a war around the world.

One doesn't need to be a Marxist to be a total tyrant, there were tyrants before Marx was ever born, long, long before Marx was born. Your attempts to make me and anyone else a bad person because you need a bogeyman is laughable at best.

The reason that the vast number of modern day murderous despots have turned to Marxism, is not because they loved Marx. They turned to Marxism because in order for Marxism to work, the state must have unyielding all consuming power over society to try and make it work. Imagine the power needed for every financial transaction to be monitored by the state, and latter assessed to redistribute funds. But as for Marxism itself, they have no interest. Marx is just a cheap whore for them.

I have yet to see a real Marxist nation...I have seen attempts yet they were not a solid Marxist operation. Considering that Marx wanted a capitalist society to be overthrown and turned into a socialist state and then morph into a stateless state of communism. No where in the world has that ever happened...

That is because the goal of Marxism is never Marxism. The goal of Marxism is control. But to even allow the government the attempt at Marxism, absolute control must be given it.

This is not hard to understand.

Honest it's not.

 

[JoeB131]

From my vantage point, the difference between Hitler and Stalin was, Hitler was simply smarter than Stalin, in that Hitler understood that bureaucrats can't even run government right, so how can they add to the list industry to run? Hitler allowed the experts to run industry, so long as he could control them, which he did 100%. As Hitler would say, "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" And Stalin was a little smarter than Hitler in that he did not spend time and money targeting races of people. At the end of the day though, they both deserved each other.

That's um, fucking retarded.

Here's the thing. The Industrialists of Germany were ALL FOR HITLER. They thought Hitler was wonderful. He made them a lot of money up until the point Germany started losing the war. Then they started turning on him AFTER the war turned, with various assassination attempts.

The simple reality is, the state has murdered more people than any other institution in human history. It's not even close. And the religious wars that are blamed on religion were conducted by the state as well. This is something that those who idolize the state and look to the state for all moral direction don't understand. What you don't understand is the corrupt nature of man, and the inevitable outcome if given power. This is why at every turn you look to empower the state further, whether it be with taxes or censoring free speech like you are doing now, etc. The scary part is, no amount of evidence can smack you upside the head to accept this. You really believe that those in government, that is in your Stalinist party, are good at heart with good intentions and thus just need more power to "get things done" and you will have your utopia.

Ah, another Libertarian who thinks Civilization happens without the state and government...

The reason why I believe in them is because I grew up in the 1960's and 1970's, when thanks to the New Deal we actually had a middle class. Then Ronald Reagan started the GOP on the path of Libertarian Crazy of bad mouthing government and talking up corrupt corporations.

 

[AMart]

I do 100% agree with Stanford history Professor Norman Naimar , Stalin (and stalinism ) must get his place on the bottom of human history. side by side with Ivan The Terrible, Hitler and Pol Pot.

"public opinion has been kinder to Stalin than Hitler. But one historian looks at Stalin's mass killings and urges that the definition of genocide be widened.


Naimark argues that that the narrow definition of genocide is the dictator’s unacknowledged legacy to us today.


Accounts “gloss over the genocidal character of the Soviet regime in the 1930s, which killed systematically rather than episodically,” said Naimark. In the process of collectivization, for example, 30,000 kulaks were killed directly, mostly shot on the spot. About 2 million were forcibly deported to the Far North and Siberia.


They were called “enemies of the people,” as well as swine, dogs, cockroaches, scum, vermin, filth, garbage, half animals, apes. Activists promoted murderous slogans: “We will exile the kulak by the thousand when necessary – shoot the kulak breed.” “We will make soap of kulaks.” “Our class enemies must be wiped off the face of the earth.”


One Soviet report noted that gangs “drove the dekulakized naked in the streets, beat them, organized drinking bouts in their houses, shot over their heads, forced them to dig their own graves, undressed women and searched them, stole valuables, money, etc.... Stalin may have had another genocide in his crosshairs. We’ll never know whether the concocted conspiracy of Jewish Kremlin doctors in 1952 would have resulted in the internal exile of the entire Jewish population. Whatever plans existed ended abruptly with Stalin’s death in March 1953, as rumors of Jewish deportations were swirling. ”

Stalin killed millions. A Stanford historian answers the question, was it genocide?

Historian Norman Naimark argues that today's narrow definition of genocide is Stalin's lasting legacy.

news.stanford.edu

Stalin's Genocides

The chilling story of Stalin’s crimes against humanity

press.princeton.edu

No one says Stalin wasn’t disgusting. It how is it genicide? Stalin wasn’t focused on a particular group. So by definition, it was not genocide.
S’matter? Anti semite doesn’t like Hitler being the bad guy?

Weak ass spin missy. They targeted multiple groups, so did the Nazis.

 

[Unkotare]

biden would urge us not to judge Uncle Joe. He was just following different “cultural norms”

 

[Litwin]

It doesn't take a Marxist to commit murder and genocide, hell the US did it and we were not Marxist or communist.

Power corrupts. That is what Marxists and Left wingers like you can never seem to fathom. Why did the Founding Fathers try to redistribute power in the Republic they founded? It was to get away from a centralized all powerful king who will, not maybe will, abuse their power. So they tried to create checks and balances to help ensure centralized all powerful control was difficult to achieve. However, this makes government more inefficient, and this made Progressives like President Wilson and FDR openly disdain the Constitution and help create the centralized all powerful government the US has now. Now the US government has become so centralized that the President now decides everything from what doctor we will have to what teacher will educate our children. And the President now simply declares edicts rather than letting Congress laws. Now Presidents like FDR can imprison innocent Americans at the drop of a hat, even when it is based on race, with no push back from anyone.

In short, Wilson and FDR started to become what they were fighting in Germany. In fact, much of what Progressives are doing today is based on the Hitler model in regards to economics, and building world conquering armies. Now pretty much every President, aside from Trump, starts a war around the world.

One doesn't need to be a Marxist to be a total tyrant, there were tyrants before Marx was ever born, long, long before Marx was born. Your attempts to make me and anyone else a bad person because you need a bogeyman is laughable at best.

The reason that the vast number of modern day murderous despots have turned to Marxism, is not because they loved Marx. They turned to Marxism because in order for Marxism to work, the state must have unyielding all consuming power over society to try and make it work. Imagine the power needed for every financial transaction to be monitored by the state, and latter assessed to redistribute funds. But as for Marxism itself, they have no interest. Marx is just a cheap whore for them.

I have yet to see a real Marxist nation...I have seen attempts yet they were not a solid Marxist operation. Considering that Marx wanted a capitalist society to be overthrown and turned into a socialist state and then morph into a stateless state of communism. No where in the world has that ever happened...

That is because the goal of Marxism is never Marxism. The goal of Marxism is control. But to even allow the government the attempt at Marxism, absolute control must be given it.

This is not hard to understand.

Honest it's not.

" That is because the goal of Marxism is never Marxism. "

You are wrong, all Bolshevik bosses were the real , true commies (Marxists) , 100 % believers in Marxism - Leninism . S Kotkin (Historian and N1 expert& researcher of Stalinism ) mentioned it many times