Prove it (or at least provide some evidence)!

[C_Clayton_Jones]

ARE YOU BLIND???

Increasing the size of the font actually does not compel one to read what is posted, nor does it make what’s written true.

Irrelevant. The court's job is not to decide cases based on what is "good" for America. Nobody has claimed the ruling is "good" for America. It's simply the law of America.

Had there been a liberal majority on the Court the decision would likely have gone the other way.

Is the ruling politically beneficial to republicans? Yes.

Is there evidence the majority ruled with that intent? No.

Is the majority’s ruling reasonable and legally compelling? Yes.

Untimely it’s up to each voter to decide, to cut through the partisan propaganda and make an informed decision. That voters are unwilling or unable to do that is of no concern to the Court.

Your suggestion the Supreme Court is above politics is naive and defied by it's history.

Remember that’s a sword that cuts both ways; and again, there’s no evidence as to a political motive in Citizens United.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

1. If there were no 1%, Liberals would still be miserable people

2. American Liberals are economically to the left of ChiComs and Communist Vietnamese, and damn ******* proud of it too

3. Obama has been the worst president in anyone's lifetime

4. Obama killed bin Laden but gave Islamists Libya, Egypt, Iran and Syria....can this guy make a deal or what?!

5. The EU will melt down as sure as the Progressive Hometeam, the USSR fell after Reagan kicked their ass; Obama is planning on turning it into a disaster for the USA

 

[Wry Catcher]

1. Repealing the Bush Tax cuts and making Billionaires and Millionaires pay more in tax will kill jobs.

2, Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)

3. Only the private sector creates jobs.

4. Shrinking government will jump start our economy (explain how adding thousands to the unemployment roles will benefit commerce, small business and the real estate market).

5. Gay & Lesbian Marriage threatens traditional marriage.

6. Citizens United v. FEC is good for America.

As usual, you are misstating the arguments so you can defeat your straw man.
1. Increasing the tax on "the rich" is a dodge to avoid reducing spending and controlling costs. Do we really need 56 different Federal Programs to teach Americans good money management? A little like Micheal Moore teaching diet planning, is it not?
2. Virtually every job in America.
3. Not jobs, wealth. Any government job is drain on the public treasure. Any private Sector job feeds the public treasure through taxation.
4. Shrinking government to a point of rationality is good for the whole. Do we really need 200 military bases on foreign soil?
5. I could not care less about who is marrying whom or if they are same or different gender. If you oppose gay sex, you should favor same sex marriage as the sex soon ends and the couple is soon not a practicing gay sex couple anymore. problem solved.
6. You oppose the First Amendment?

I choose that we increase the tax on the rich; you choose to increase the misery of the poor.

2. Baloney. Anyone who walks down Main St. knows that the myraid of small business are owned by individuals, businesses which don't pick up and move overseas.

3. More baloney. You're simply parroting right wing dogma. A government office building supports local business and is good for communities. Take a walk around a Federal Office building and count the restaurants, parking gargages, book stores, dry cleaners, office supply businesses, banks, notories, attorney's, etc. etc.

4. Nope, we don't need 200 military bases in foregin nations, only the neo-cons support such a policy.

5. Good for you, callous conservatvies and social conservatives don't support liberty and freedom for all.

6. I oppose Citizens United v. FEC; suggesting that means I don't support the first amendment freedom is absurd. Do you support human or animal sacrifice as a right guaranteed by the first amendment?

 

[Photonic]

1. Repealing the Bush Tax cuts and making Billionaires and Millionaires pay more in tax will kill jobs.

2, Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)

3. Only the private sector creates jobs.

4. Shrinking government will jump start our economy (explain how adding thousands to the unemployment roles will benefit commerce, small business and the real estate market).

5. Gay & Lesbian Marriage threatens traditional marriage.

6. Citizens United v. FEC is good for America.

As usual, you are misstating the arguments so you can defeat your straw man.
1. Increasing the tax on "the rich" is a dodge to avoid reducing spending and controlling costs. Do we really need 56 different Federal Programs to teach Americans good money management? A little like Micheal Moore teaching diet planning, is it not?
2. Virtually every job in America.
3. Not jobs, wealth. Any government job is drain on the public treasure. Any private Sector job feeds the public treasure through taxation.
4. Shrinking government to a point of rationality is good for the whole. Do we really need 200 military bases on foreign soil?
5. I could not care less about who is marrying whom or if they are same or different gender. If you oppose gay sex, you should favor same sex marriage as the sex soon ends and the couple is soon not a practicing gay sex couple anymore. problem solved.
6. You oppose the First Amendment?

I choose that we increase the tax on the rich; you choose to increase the misery of the poor.

2. Baloney. Anyone who walks down Main St. knows that the myraid of small business are owned by individuals, businesses which don't pick up and move overseas.

3. More baloney. You're simply parroting right wing dogma. A government office building supports local business and is good for communities. Take a walk around a Federal Office building and count the restaurants, parking gargages, book stores, dry cleaners, office supply businesses, banks, notories, attorney's, etc. etc.

4. Nope, we don't need 200 military bases in foregin nations, only the neo-cons support such a policy.

5. Good for you, callous conservatvies and social conservatives don't support liberty and freedom for all.

6. I oppose Citizens United v. FEC; suggesting that means I don't support the first amendment freedom is absurd. Do you support human or animal sacrifice as a right guaranteed by the first amendment?

You have to understand their absurd mindset.

"The poor are poor because they chose to be."

Never mind that even if everyone filled every job we would still have some of the highest unemployment in history.

 

[Wry Catcher]

ARE YOU BLIND???

Increasing the size of the font actually does not compel one to read what is posted, nor does it make what’s written true.

Irrelevant. The court's job is not to decide cases based on what is "good" for America. Nobody has claimed the ruling is "good" for America. It's simply the law of America.

Had there been a liberal majority on the Court the decision would likely have gone the other way.

Is the ruling politically beneficial to republicans? Yes.

Is there evidence the majority ruled with that intent? No.

Is the majority’s ruling reasonable and legally compelling? Yes.

Untimely it’s up to each voter to decide, to cut through the partisan propaganda and make an informed decision. That voters are unwilling or unable to do that is of no concern to the Court.

Your suggestion the Supreme Court is above politics is naive and defied by it's history.

Remember that’s a sword that cuts both ways; and again, there’s no evidence as to a political motive in Citizens United.

Evidence you want, here it is (of course, it's up to you and each of us to evaluate it probative value):

On January 17, 2004 VP Cheney and Justice Antonin Saclia spent part of the week duck hunting at a private camp in Louisiana just three weeks after the court agreed to take up the VP's appeal in lawsuits over his handling of the administrations energy task force.

Justice Clarence Thomas appeared at a political retreat in 2008 at Palm Springs hosted by the Kock brothers & The Federalist Society (of which Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito have been identified) and reimbursed Justice Thomas for transportation, meals and accommodations for the weekend retreat.

In 2010 the USSC passed Citizens United v. FEC in a 5 to 4 decision.

In Ohio millions of dollars whose origin is unknown are funding the Yes on 2 campaign with money provided by Americans for Prosperity (Kock Brothers), Freedom Works (Dick Armey) and another 501(c)(4) run by one of Dick Cheney's daughters.

The conclusion I draw from these few facts, which the curious will no doubt check and the willfully ignorant partisans will ignore or attack, is that the wealthy and powerful have declared war on the working men and women of our country.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Funny isn't it when one is asked a question, or challenged by another to provide evidence of their opinion, and when the evidence is supplied the inquisitor has disappeared. Now, I know we don't all spend all our time on the forum - though some seem to be here a lot - but when one challenges another it would be good form to wait a bit and respond when answered.

 

[code1211]

The left has been demanding that the Bush tax cuts expire...Well they are.Then what? The only thing it fixes is a government that craves spending.
Millionaires and billionaires create jobs....That is impossible and to prove it I will quit my job and try to get one from the guy who stands outside a bagel store by me that always begs for money....
The Libs want us to think poor people create jobs...I bet it's gonna be easier to prove that millionaires and billionaires create more jobs then poor people Only the. private sector creates jobs Well the government can hire people but those salaries are paid for by money taken from taxpayers.It's just moving money from one pile to another.Shrinking government Well let's just keep spending taxpayers money to grow government that doesn't create or produce anything with money we don't have...Let's have a federal babysitting department like Princess Nancy wants..Gays and Rachel Maddow types getting married...I don't care.And like wise for item # 6.....

To demonstrate the depth of the lack of understanding of how the economy works, we only need listen to what the Democrat leaders say will stimulate the economy.

Nancy pelosi says that giving people unemployment checks will spur the economy. She said the same about food stamps.

If this were the case, putting the entire population on unemployment would shift the economy into overdrive.

There is no way to negotiate with a complete and utter idiot and that is what the Dems present for us to work with.

 

[code1211]

Well, we've seen a number of opinions on these items, but not a shread of evidence to prove these conclusions (below, 1 -4) are anything more than opinions based on premises which may or not be true, but are taken by the conservative proponents as universal truths.

1. Repealing the Bush Tax cuts and making Billionaires and Millionaires pay more in tax will kill jobs.

2, Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)

3. Only the private sector creates jobs.

4. Shrinking government will jump start our economy (explain how adding thousands to the unemployment roles will benefit commerce, small business and the real estate market).

5. Gay & Lesbian Marriage threatens traditional marriage.

6. Citizens United v. FEC is good for America.

ARE YOU BLIND???


1) Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)
Created millionaires..
Created taxable income...

A) Bill Gates - Microsoft.. Employees 92,000 (November 2011)
The ensuing rise of stock in the company's 1986 initial public offering (IPO) made an estimated three billionaires and 12,000 millionaires from Microsoft employees

B) Steve Jobs Apple As of September 2010[update], Apple had 46,600 full time employees and 2,800 temporary full time employees worldwide
When Apple went public, it generated more capital than any IPO since Ford Motor Company in 1956 and instantly created more millionaires (about 300) than any company in history


C) Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard Hewlett-Packard - Employees 324,600

All of the above are millionaire/billionaires that create JOBS!

Why don't we ask a better question; How many more than this number are they employing outside our country?

My guess would be many times the number shown here.

Let's assume that you are right. Then the question is what must be done to incent the rich guys who create jobs to create them in the USA?

If you don't know the answer to that question, then you don't know the reason that the jobs left in the first place.

 

[code1211]

1. Repealing the Bush Tax cuts and making Billionaires and Millionaires pay more in tax will kill jobs.

2, Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)

3. Only the private sector creates jobs.

4. Shrinking government will jump start our economy (explain how adding thousands to the unemployment roles will benefit commerce, small business and the real estate market).

5. Gay & Lesbian Marriage threatens traditional marriage.

6. Citizens United v. FEC is good for America.

As usual, you are misstating the arguments so you can defeat your straw man.
1. Increasing the tax on "the rich" is a dodge to avoid reducing spending and controlling costs. Do we really need 56 different Federal Programs to teach Americans good money management? A little like Micheal Moore teaching diet planning, is it not?
2. Virtually every job in America.
3. Not jobs, wealth. Any government job is drain on the public treasure. Any private Sector job feeds the public treasure through taxation.
4. Shrinking government to a point of rationality is good for the whole. Do we really need 200 military bases on foreign soil?
5. I could not care less about who is marrying whom or if they are same or different gender. If you oppose gay sex, you should favor same sex marriage as the sex soon ends and the couple is soon not a practicing gay sex couple anymore. problem solved.
6. You oppose the First Amendment?

I choose that we increase the tax on the rich; you choose to increase the misery of the poor.

2. Baloney. Anyone who walks down Main St. knows that the myraid of small business are owned by individuals, businesses which don't pick up and move overseas.

3. More baloney. You're simply parroting right wing dogma. A government office building supports local business and is good for communities. Take a walk around a Federal Office building and count the restaurants, parking gargages, book stores, dry cleaners, office supply businesses, banks, notories, attorney's, etc. etc.

4. Nope, we don't need 200 military bases in foregin nations, only the neo-cons support such a policy.

5. Good for you, callous conservatvies and social conservatives don't support liberty and freedom for all.

6. I oppose Citizens United v. FEC; suggesting that means I don't support the first amendment freedom is absurd. Do you support human or animal sacrifice as a right guaranteed by the first amendment?

1. Who are the rich? In the latest proposals on increasing the tax on "the rich", you know, tgheguys who make more than $250,000, oops, er, i mean... $200,000. What? It's changed again? Well then $174,400. There it is. Engraved in Jell-o.

2. And most profitable small businesses are providing incomes of the size that you would increase the tax upon. Why is the burden of tax to be borne by the rich only? How long do you think they will tolerate this?

3. So you think that taxing people to pay the government employees and support the infrastructure of the government fires up the economy? Cue the circus music.

Private enterprise generates wealth. Government payrolls consume the wealth that was generated by private enterprise. If government costs 24% of the GDP, that 24% that had to be created by someone else.

6. The case you cited was one that effectively overturned the practice of prior restraint. The Freedom of Speech referred to in the first amendment is what this upheld. I'm not sure what point of law you think you are defending by opposing the right express political preference.

 

[code1211]

As usual, you are misstating the arguments so you can defeat your straw man.
1. Increasing the tax on "the rich" is a dodge to avoid reducing spending and controlling costs. Do we really need 56 different Federal Programs to teach Americans good money management? A little like Micheal Moore teaching diet planning, is it not?
2. Virtually every job in America.
3. Not jobs, wealth. Any government job is drain on the public treasure. Any private Sector job feeds the public treasure through taxation.
4. Shrinking government to a point of rationality is good for the whole. Do we really need 200 military bases on foreign soil?
5. I could not care less about who is marrying whom or if they are same or different gender. If you oppose gay sex, you should favor same sex marriage as the sex soon ends and the couple is soon not a practicing gay sex couple anymore. problem solved.
6. You oppose the First Amendment?

I choose that we increase the tax on the rich; you choose to increase the misery of the poor.

2. Baloney. Anyone who walks down Main St. knows that the myraid of small business are owned by individuals, businesses which don't pick up and move overseas.

3. More baloney. You're simply parroting right wing dogma. A government office building supports local business and is good for communities. Take a walk around a Federal Office building and count the restaurants, parking gargages, book stores, dry cleaners, office supply businesses, banks, notories, attorney's, etc. etc.

4. Nope, we don't need 200 military bases in foregin nations, only the neo-cons support such a policy.

5. Good for you, callous conservatvies and social conservatives don't support liberty and freedom for all.

6. I oppose Citizens United v. FEC; suggesting that means I don't support the first amendment freedom is absurd. Do you support human or animal sacrifice as a right guaranteed by the first amendment?

You have to understand their absurd mindset.

"The poor are poor because they chose to be."

Never mind that even if everyone filled every job we would still have some of the highest unemployment in history.

Do you wonder at all why the most creative and energetic job creators in the world's history have gone into a lock out posture?

 

[Photonic]

I choose that we increase the tax on the rich; you choose to increase the misery of the poor.

2. Baloney. Anyone who walks down Main St. knows that the myraid of small business are owned by individuals, businesses which don't pick up and move overseas.

3. More baloney. You're simply parroting right wing dogma. A government office building supports local business and is good for communities. Take a walk around a Federal Office building and count the restaurants, parking gargages, book stores, dry cleaners, office supply businesses, banks, notories, attorney's, etc. etc.

4. Nope, we don't need 200 military bases in foregin nations, only the neo-cons support such a policy.

5. Good for you, callous conservatvies and social conservatives don't support liberty and freedom for all.

6. I oppose Citizens United v. FEC; suggesting that means I don't support the first amendment freedom is absurd. Do you support human or animal sacrifice as a right guaranteed by the first amendment?

You have to understand their absurd mindset.

"The poor are poor because they chose to be."

Never mind that even if everyone filled every job we would still have some of the highest unemployment in history.

Do you wonder at all why the most creative and energetic job creators in the world's history have gone into a lock out posture?

Because morons who think a college education gives them a free ride in life went out and got frivolous degrees that don't apply to just about anything.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The left has been demanding that the Bush tax cuts expire...Well they are.Then what? The only thing it fixes is a government that craves spending.
Millionaires and billionaires create jobs....That is impossible and to prove it I will quit my job and try to get one from the guy who stands outside a bagel store by me that always begs for money....
The Libs want us to think poor people create jobs...I bet it's gonna be easier to prove that millionaires and billionaires create more jobs then poor people Only the. private sector creates jobs Well the government can hire people but those salaries are paid for by money taken from taxpayers.It's just moving money from one pile to another.Shrinking government Well let's just keep spending taxpayers money to grow government that doesn't create or produce anything with money we don't have...Let's have a federal babysitting department like Princess Nancy wants..Gays and Rachel Maddow types getting married...I don't care.And like wise for item # 6.....

To demonstrate the depth of the lack of understanding of how the economy works, we only need listen to what the Democrat leaders say will stimulate the economy.

Nancy pelosi says that giving people unemployment checks will spur the economy. She said the same about food stamps.

If this were the case, putting the entire population on unemployment would shift the economy into overdrive.

There is no way to negotiate with a complete and utter idiot and that is what the Dems present for us to work with.

Former House Judiciary Committee Chairman, John Conyers (D-MI) say that Congress can do whatever the **** it wants, it's right there under the "Good and Welfare" Clause

http://www.redstate.com/hogan/2010/03/24/the-good-and-welfare-clause-by-john-conyers/

 

[Wry Catcher]

And still no proof, no evidence that the wealthiest 1% of our people are job creators. Gates, Jobs and Packard were broke at their onset. How many jobs are created by MLB players, NFL players, NBA players, NHL players, the PGA, top paid actors and performers, medical specialists (all of whom make much more than $250,000 per year and will for decades)?

 

[edthecynic]

1. Who are the rich? In the latest proposals on increasing the tax on "the rich", you know, tgheguys who make more than $250,000, oops, er, i mean... $200,000. What? It's changed again? Well then $174,400. There it is. Engraved in Jell-o.

You do know it is the GOP who are defining down the "rich" to $174,400 to increase their taxes, don't you??? So that's engraved in GOP jello!

 

[daveman]

6. CU v. FEC is anti democratic.

Then you oppose union contributions to campaigns.

 

[daveman]

Well, we've seen a number of opinions on these items, but not a shread of evidence to prove these conclusions (below, 1 -4) are anything more than opinions based on premises which may or not be true, but are taken by the conservative proponents as universal truths.

1. Repealing the Bush Tax cuts and making Billionaires and Millionaires pay more in tax will kill jobs.

2, Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)

3. Only the private sector creates jobs.

4. Shrinking government will jump start our economy (explain how adding thousands to the unemployment roles will benefit commerce, small business and the real estate market).

5. Gay & Lesbian Marriage threatens traditional marriage.

6. Citizens United v. FEC is good for America.

ARE YOU BLIND???


1) Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)
Created millionaires..
Created taxable income...

A) Bill Gates - Microsoft.. Employees 92,000 (November 2011)
The ensuing rise of stock in the company's 1986 initial public offering (IPO) made an estimated three billionaires and 12,000 millionaires from Microsoft employees

B) Steve Jobs Apple As of September 2010[update], Apple had 46,600 full time employees and 2,800 temporary full time employees worldwide
When Apple went public, it generated more capital than any IPO since Ford Motor Company in 1956 and instantly created more millionaires (about 300) than any company in history


C) Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard Hewlett-Packard - Employees 324,600

All of the above are millionaire/billionaires that create JOBS!

Wait just a minute there Slick! Are you sure they were all millionaires and billionaires when they started their companies???
Dang, CON$ are fools!

Gosh, you're stupid.

They weren't wealthy when they started their businesses. Their businesses were successful, enabling them to employ more and more people. Along the way they got wealthy and their companies created even more jobs.

Try thinking for yourself for once. Don't rely on Wry to do it for you; he's no better at it than you are.

 

[daveman]

ARE YOU BLIND???


1) Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)
Created millionaires..
Created taxable income...

A) Bill Gates - Microsoft.. Employees 92,000 (November 2011)
The ensuing rise of stock in the company's 1986 initial public offering (IPO) made an estimated three billionaires and 12,000 millionaires from Microsoft employees

B) Steve Jobs Apple As of September 2010[update], Apple had 46,600 full time employees and 2,800 temporary full time employees worldwide
When Apple went public, it generated more capital than any IPO since Ford Motor Company in 1956 and instantly created more millionaires (about 300) than any company in history


C) Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard Hewlett-Packard - Employees 324,600

All of the above are millionaire/billionaires that create JOBS!

Wait just a minute there Slick! Are you sure they were all millionaires and billionaires when they started their companies???
Dang, CON$ are fools!

Well stated. Not all are fools, most are simply too lazy to examine/evaluate the propaganda they accept as immutable truth. Pitiful may be more accurate.

If you disagree with healthymyths' post, perhaps you should attempt to prove that wealthy people DON'T create jobs.

Good luck with that.

 

[daveman]

And still no proof, no evidence that the wealthiest 1% of our people are job creators. Gates, Jobs and Packard were broke at their onset. How many jobs are created by MLB players, NFL players, NBA players, NHL players, the PGA, top paid actors and performers, medical specialists (all of whom make much more than $250,000 per year and will for decades)?

You're saying they don't produce jobs.

Prove it.

 

[edthecynic]

ARE YOU BLIND???


1) Millionaires and Billionaires create jobs (name them and describe the jobs)
Created millionaires..
Created taxable income...

A) Bill Gates - Microsoft.. Employees 92,000 (November 2011)
The ensuing rise of stock in the company's 1986 initial public offering (IPO) made an estimated three billionaires and 12,000 millionaires from Microsoft employees

B) Steve Jobs Apple As of September 2010[update], Apple had 46,600 full time employees and 2,800 temporary full time employees worldwide
When Apple went public, it generated more capital than any IPO since Ford Motor Company in 1956 and instantly created more millionaires (about 300) than any company in history


C) Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard Hewlett-Packard - Employees 324,600

All of the above are millionaire/billionaires that create JOBS!

Wait just a minute there Slick! Are you sure they were all millionaires and billionaires when they started their companies???
Dang, CON$ are fools!

Gosh, you're stupid.

They weren't wealthy when they started their businesses. Their businesses were successful, enabling them to employ more and more people. Along the way they got wealthy and their companies created even more jobs.

Try thinking for yourself for once. Don't rely on Wry to do it for you; he's no better at it than you are.

So, you admit that the non-wealthy start businesses and create jobs. You didn't mean to, but there it is.

 

[Photonic]

Wait just a minute there Slick! Are you sure they were all millionaires and billionaires when they started their companies???
Dang, CON$ are fools!

Gosh, you're stupid.

They weren't wealthy when they started their businesses. Their businesses were successful, enabling them to employ more and more people. Along the way they got wealthy and their companies created even more jobs.

Try thinking for yourself for once. Don't rely on Wry to do it for you; he's no better at it than you are.

So, you admit that the non-wealthy start businesses and create jobs. You didn't mean to, but there it is.

And even if what he said was the complete truth, where did they get the money to create those jobs?

That's right, other people with jobs.

Jobs come from people with jobs.