How so? Explain. I am saying that a person who enjoys being hurt during the act of sex or not, is not a very healthy individual and should probably be avoided. The person who enjoys and gets off on inflicting such pain on another is REALLY messed up. That is just messed up, no matter how you try to explain it. It is what it is, messed up and not very healthy.
I know what you are saying but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.
If your starting point is this biased then your starting point is flawed. You have no idea what you are talking about and that is pretty sad.
Hi
Disir and
ChrisL
I get where you are both coming from.
If people AGREE with fully aware and informed consent, and AGREE to do those things,
then yes, it's just like people AGREE to compromise their beliefs in court or by majority rule and go with the outcome.
If people AGREE to that.
What ChrisL and I are saying
is some people do NOT agree and there are TWO kinds
1. people like Chris and I who are AWARE we don't agree to abuse, etc.
2. people who DON'T realize or "not sure" like the ANA in the story who went along with it
but had to admit it isn't right for her. But the damage was already done.
3. people who THINK that's what they want, but the reason they are into abuse
is they are repeating an unconscious unnatural pattern of abuse (ie not really healthy
though they THINK that is natural for them and they are consenting)
These people do not agree by their TRUE selves, but what if they don't know what that is yet?
Then they are PRONE to abuse, and that is what is happening both personally in relations
and politically with people who don't know what they really want. they get rooked, bullied, abused.
So if these people don't know yes from no,
it is up to others NOT to take advantage of them.
So
Disir that's why it's so important, especially if you believe in crossing those bounds,
that YOU can tell the difference between someone who is consenting in full,
and someone who really isn't but SAYS they are.
If you can't tell the difference, that is DANGEROUS and leads to abuse by negligence or by selfishness.
In the story, Christian goes ahead with what HE wants, though he SAYS he doesn't want to push past
what is approved, he does it ANYWAY. So this is NOT consensual.
One side is sure and the other isn't.
Now
WinterBorn and you both pointed out the contract wasn't signed.
So that is a GOOD point.
But I'm telling you, SO many people sign contracts then find out after they didn't have the same expectations.
So this happens too often.
There needs to be better awareness and sensitivity to what is TRUE consensus.
or in cases of abuse, or chosen abuse, it is TOO risky. The damages are already done.
If it is just a minimal contract, like for trying out an online service,
and if you change your mind and cancel there is no harm done, that's one thing.
But something like having sex, or having extreme practices that
can possibly leave longstanding trauma or damage, that isn't something LIGHT.
Disir I don't mind if it's people like Goddess_Ashtara who seems to have a good
sense of people's boundaries even when they don't.
but especially if people DON'T have that sense, it is too dangerous to assume
that just because someone agreed, appeared to agree, or signed an agreement
then that's absolute.
some people don't know their boundaries, and I don't see the people like
"Christian" taking that responsibility, but taking advantage for onesided selfish interest.
That is not mutual, and yes it is still abusing the relationship
even if the person THOUGHT it was mutual. If I THOUGHT
I could lend someone 100 dollars and it wouldn't ruin teh friendship
but it did, then even though we both agreed to the loan it still ruined and abused the relationship
and was "out of bounds" of what we could handle unconditionally.
Thanks!