Protesters Carrying Rifle Outside Obama Rally

[Lonestar_logic]

Whether these people are responsible adults or not is a matter of opinion and one that you and I obviously do not share.

Immie

Well while you sit and let the government shove socialism down your throat , people like me and those armed citizens will be fighting to prevent it.

Will you?

I rather doubt it.

What exactly are YOU doing to prevent socialism?

Voting R?

Writing nasty things about liberals on the internet?

And you think that those things will help this nation not become a totalitarian state, do you?

Don't count on it.

I'm organizing like minded folks to attend town halls and encouraging them to write and/or call their respective representaves and to exercise their constitutional rights at every juncture.

I vote for who I believe will do the less damage, whether there's an "R" or a "D" by their name is of no consequence.

And yes I will take up arms and defend the constitution from socialism and not only will all these things help , it will be the deciding factor.

Obama will be lucky if he finishes out his first term, there will not be a second.

 

[Immanuel]

I think there is a symbolic message contained in the fact that armed people are showing up at political rallies. I think it should be sending a sending a message to politicians that they are threading on ground that could incite a revolt. That people are seeing a government exceeding its charter to such an extent, that they may be willing to become more than politically active; to become that final check on tyrannical government.

I must say, I am surprised that we have arrived here so quickly, but it's good warning sign that the pols should heed and curtail their efforts at instituting greater controls over people's lives. However, I think the pols are too avaricious to heed any such warning and will plow ahead undaunted.

See I'm not the only person right of center that sees a threat here.

That is basically how I see this. I simply don't think we should be going so far with this message. We are after all, still a Democratic Republic that believes in the ideas of freedom. Allowing these gun totters to dictate policy via intimidation is a scary thing in my book.

Immie

Well, don't put words in my mouth. I'm not saying that I have any problem with folks carrying firearms. I also don't think they are driving the message. Neither did I detect any intimidation.

My point is that the overreaching policies of the current government have actually spurred some people (even if they are fringe elements) to bring their weapons to political events. This is a pre-cursor warning that the policies are going too far.

The politicians can choose to blithely ignore it. But, I fear if they do, it will result in not so fringe elements carrying weapons to political meetings in the not so distant future. And, that is likely as not to lead to a some kind of snowball effect and take on a life of its own.

Is it time for a revolution? I'm not sure. Ask Thomas Jefferson and he'd probably say we're about 70 years too late for a revolution. Ask your typical liberal and it would never be time as long as the government is clamping down good and tight. I wonder if we'll find out.

But my point was that you too see it as a threat.

As I have said earlier, I don't have a problem with people carrying firearms either. I simply believe there are times when they should not be carried and this is one of those times.

Immie

 

[Barb]

Politicians can and do take away your constitutional rights without firing a shot-----so who are the really dangerous people at this rally ?

Completely agree -- just look at how many rights are taken away by the Patriot Act!

I'd like to know how the patriot act caused any loss of rights to you personally, how did it affect yew? what did your lawyer say? on what grounds do you deserve compensation? TIA.

USPA legalized every act found unconstitutional and illegal by the Church Commission in consideration of actions taken under COINTELPRO.

 

[Gudrid]

Nice, But it's not Washington's Address to 1st session of Congress.

I posted his first state of the union and a link to his first inaugural address to congress. To what are you referring?

I'm referring to Washington's Address to 1st session of Congress. NOT his first inaugural address nor his first state of the union address.

Both of the speeches I handed you fit your description. As do others. You're going to have to be more specific. Washington delivered multiple Addresses to the first session of Congress.

 

[Gudrid]

Well while you sit and let the government shove socialism down your throat , people like me and those armed citizens will be fighting to prevent it.

Bullshit. This is about party loyalty and nothing more. Otherwise we'd have seen these "armed citizens" out when the Patriot Act was being passed and "Free Speech Zones" were being enforced.

 

[Emma]

The Secret Service STATED for the record that they were not concerned in the least, that it did not effect their security arrangement and that it did not distract from the job of protecting the President.

Did you really expect them to say differently? Think about it.

 

[Care4all]

Nice, But it's not Washington's Address to 1st session of Congress.

I posted his first state of the union and a link to his first inaugural address to congress. To what are you referring?

I'm referring to Washington's Address to 1st session of Congress. NOT his first inaugural address nor his first state of the union address.

HERE IT IS, first address to congress on january 8, 1790

AND THE STATEMENT IS NOT in there lonestar???

First Annual Message to Congress by George Washington

First Annual Message to Congress

George Washington
January 8, 1790

Friday, January 8, 1790.

Fellow—Citizens of the Senate and House of Representatives: I embrace with great satisfaction the opportunity which now presents itself, of congratulating you on the present favourable prospects of our public affairs. The recent accession of the important State of North Carolina to the Constitution of the United States (of which official information has been received); the rising credit and respectability of our Country; the general and increasing good will towards the Government of the Union, and the concord, peace, and plenty, with which we are blessed are circumstances auspicious in an eminent degree, to our national prosperity.

In resuming your consultations for the general good, you cannot but derive encouragement from the reflection that the measures of the last Session have been as satisfactory to your Constituents, as the novelty and difficulty of the work allowed you to hope. Still further to realize their expectations and to secure the blessings which a Gracious Providence has placed within our reach, will in the course of the present important Session, call for the cool and deliberate exertion of your patriotism, firmness and wisdom.

Among the many interesting objects, which will engage your attention, that of providing for the common defence will merit particular regard. To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of perserving peace.

A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require, that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others for essential, particularly for military supplies.

The proper establishment of the Troops, which may be deemed indispensable, will be entitled to mature deliberation. In the arrangements, which may be made respecting it, it will be of importance to conciliate the comfortable support of the Officers and Soldiers with a due regard to economy.

There was reason to hope that the pacific measures adopted with regard to certain hostile tribes of Indians would have relieved the Inhabitants of our Southern and Western frontiers from their depredations. But you will perceive from the information contained in the papers which I shall direct to be laid before you (comprehending a communication from the Commonwealth of Virginia) that we ought to be prepared to afford protection to those parts of the Union; and if necessary to punish aggressors.

The interests of the United States requires that our intercourse with other nations should be facilitated, by such provisions as will enable me to fulfill my duty in that respect, in the manner which circumstances may render most conducive to the public good: And to this end that the compensations to be made to the persons who may be employed, should according to the nature of their appointments, be defined by law; and a competent fund designated for defraying the expenses incident to the conduct of our foreign affairs.

Various considerations also render it expedient, that the terms on which foreigners may be admitted to the rights of Citizens should be speedily ascertained by a uniform rule of naturalization.

Uniformity in the Currency, Weights and Measures of the United States is an object of great importance, and will I am persuaded be duly attended to.

The advancement of Agriculture, Commerce and Manufactures by all proper means, will not I trust need recommendation. But I cannot forbear intimating to you the expediency of giving effectual encouragement as well to the introduction of new and useful inventions from abroad, as to the exertions of skill and genius in producing them at home; and of facilitating the intercourse between the distant parts of our Country by a due attention to the Post-Office and Post-Roads.

Nor am I less persuaded, that you will agree with me in opinion, that there is nothing which can better deserve your patronage than the promotion of Science and Literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness. In one in which the measures of Government receive their impression so immediately from the sense of the Community as in ours it is proportionably essential. To the security of a free Constitution it contributes in various ways: By convincing those who are intrusted with the public administration, that every valuable end of Government is best answered by the enlightened confidence of the people: and by teaching the people themselves to know and to value their own rights; to discern and provide against invasions of them; to distinguish between oppression and the necessary exercise of lawful authority; between burthens proceeding from a disregard to their convenience and those resulting from the inevitable exigencies of Society; to discriminate the spirit of Liberty from that of licentiousness— cherishing the first, avoiding the last, and uniting a speedy, but temperate vigilance against encroachments, with an inviolable respect to the Laws.

Whether this desirable object will be the best promoted by affording aids to seminaries of learning already established, by the institution of a national University, or by any other expedients, will be well worthy of a place in the deliberations of the Legislature.

Gentlemen of the House of Representatives: I saw, with peculiar pleasure, at the close of the last session, the resolution entered into by you, expressive of your opinion that an adequate provision for the support of the public credit, is a matter of high importance to the natural honor and prosperity. In this sentiment I entirely concur. And, to a perfect confidence in your best endeavors to devise such a provision as will be truly consistent co—operation of the other branch of the Legislature. It would be superfluous to specify inducements to a measure in which the character and permanent interests of the United States are so obviously and so deeply concerned, and which has received so explicit a sanction from your declaration.

Gentlemen of the Senate and House of Representatives: I have directed the proper officers to lay before you, respectively, such papers and estimates as regard the affairs particularly recommended to your consideration, and necessary to convey to you that information of the state of the Union which it is my duty to afford.

The welfare of your country is the great object to which our cares and efforts ought to be directed. And I shall derive great satisfaction from a co—operation with you in the pleasing, though arduous task, of ensuring to our fellow—citizens the blessings which they a right to expect from a free, efficient, and equal government.

Geo. Washington.

 

[Emma]

and the Secret Service was not involved on any higher level because of it

How do you know that?

 

[Tech_Esq]

See I'm not the only person right of center that sees a threat here.

That is basically how I see this. I simply don't think we should be going so far with this message. We are after all, still a Democratic Republic that believes in the ideas of freedom. Allowing these gun totters to dictate policy via intimidation is a scary thing in my book.

Immie

Well, don't put words in my mouth. I'm not saying that I have any problem with folks carrying firearms. I also don't think they are driving the message. Neither did I detect any intimidation.

My point is that the overreaching policies of the current government have actually spurred some people (even if they are fringe elements) to bring their weapons to political events. This is a pre-cursor warning that the policies are going too far.

The politicians can choose to blithely ignore it. But, I fear if they do, it will result in not so fringe elements carrying weapons to political meetings in the not so distant future. And, that is likely as not to lead to a some kind of snowball effect and take on a life of its own.

Is it time for a revolution? I'm not sure. Ask Thomas Jefferson and he'd probably say we're about 70 years too late for a revolution. Ask your typical liberal and it would never be time as long as the government is clamping down good and tight. I wonder if we'll find out.

But my point was that you too see it as a threat.

As I have said earlier, I don't have a problem with people carrying firearms either. I simply believe there are times when they should not be carried and this is one of those times.

Immie

In that immediate instant, I don't view them as a "threat." In a general warning about how seriously and deeply people are taking the proposed changes to our systems of government, they are a shot across the bow of the steamship "statism."

 

[DiamondDave]

and the Secret Service was not involved on any higher level because of it

How do you know that?

Try reading

Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.

Man carrying assault weapon attends Obama protest - Yahoo! News

Again... this is not some illegal action or threatening action when it is taking place in Arizona (nor should it be anywhere IMHO)... someone peaceably and openly carrying their weapon in a legal manor is not going to put up the huge warning flags... someone acting sneaky, nervous, suspicious, etc will draw MUCH more attention from security... this man was not anywhere close to the President to be some 'threat' (not like he was in the immediate crowd in front of the Prez), was not making any bold or threatening gestures, and was acting within his legal rights to do as he did....

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I posted his first state of the union and a link to his first inaugural address to congress. To what are you referring?

I'm referring to Washington's Address to 1st session of Congress. NOT his first inaugural address nor his first state of the union address.

Both of the speeches I handed you fit your description. As do others. You're going to have to be more specific. Washington delivered multiple Addresses to the first session of Congress.

His very first address, to the 1st session of Congress. That's where the quote in question supposedly originated.

 

[Emma]

and the Secret Service was not involved on any higher level because of it

How do you know that?

Try reading

Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.

You really believe they'd admit to additional security? That they'd admit they believed there was a heightened threat?

Think about it.

 

[Emma]

I'm referring to Washington's Address to 1st session of Congress. NOT his first inaugural address nor his first state of the union address.

Both of the speeches I handed you fit your description. As do others. You're going to have to be more specific. Washington delivered multiple Addresses to the first session of Congress.

His very first address, to the 1st session of Congress. That's where the quote in question supposedly originated.

The first joint session of Congress was on April 6th; Washington was inaugurated on April 30th. I don't see any reference to a speech to Congress prior to that. Are you referring to a speech to the Continental Congress?

 

[DiamondDave]

How do you know that?

Try reading

Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.

You really believe they'd admit to additional security? That they'd admit they believed there was a heightened threat?

Think about it.

Again

THINK about it... was this man in the crowd in front of the President? Was this man in a firing position? Was this man acting suspicious? Was this man acting outside his legal rights?

Give me a freaking break.. .live in reality, not some partisan quackery illusion

 

[DavidS]

live in reality, not some partisan quackery illusion

My, look how black this kettle is.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I posted his first state of the union and a link to his first inaugural address to congress. To what are you referring?

I'm referring to Washington's Address to 1st session of Congress. NOT his first inaugural address nor his first state of the union address.

HERE IT IS, first address to congress on january 8, 1790

AND THE STATEMENT IS NOT in there lonestar???

First Annual Message to Congress by George Washington

First Annual Message to Congress

George Washington
January 8, 1790

Friday, January 8, 1790.

Fellow—Citizens of the Senate and House of Representatives: I embrace with great satisfaction the opportunity which now presents itself, of congratulating you on the present favourable prospects of our public affairs. The recent accession of the important State of North Carolina to the Constitution of the United States (of which official information has been received); the rising credit and respectability of our Country; the general and increasing good will towards the Government of the Union, and the concord, peace, and plenty, with which we are blessed are circumstances auspicious in an eminent degree, to our national prosperity.

In resuming your consultations for the general good, you cannot but derive encouragement from the reflection that the measures of the last Session have been as satisfactory to your Constituents, as the novelty and difficulty of the work allowed you to hope. Still further to realize their expectations and to secure the blessings which a Gracious Providence has placed within our reach, will in the course of the present important Session, call for the cool and deliberate exertion of your patriotism, firmness and wisdom.

Among the many interesting objects, which will engage your attention, that of providing for the common defence will merit particular regard. To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of perserving peace.

A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require, that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others for essential, particularly for military supplies.

The proper establishment of the Troops, which may be deemed indispensable, will be entitled to mature deliberation. In the arrangements, which may be made respecting it, it will be of importance to conciliate the comfortable support of the Officers and Soldiers with a due regard to economy.

There was reason to hope that the pacific measures adopted with regard to certain hostile tribes of Indians would have relieved the Inhabitants of our Southern and Western frontiers from their depredations. But you will perceive from the information contained in the papers which I shall direct to be laid before you (comprehending a communication from the Commonwealth of Virginia) that we ought to be prepared to afford protection to those parts of the Union; and if necessary to punish aggressors.

The interests of the United States requires that our intercourse with other nations should be facilitated, by such provisions as will enable me to fulfill my duty in that respect, in the manner which circumstances may render most conducive to the public good: And to this end that the compensations to be made to the persons who may be employed, should according to the nature of their appointments, be defined by law; and a competent fund designated for defraying the expenses incident to the conduct of our foreign affairs.

Various considerations also render it expedient, that the terms on which foreigners may be admitted to the rights of Citizens should be speedily ascertained by a uniform rule of naturalization.

Uniformity in the Currency, Weights and Measures of the United States is an object of great importance, and will I am persuaded be duly attended to.

The advancement of Agriculture, Commerce and Manufactures by all proper means, will not I trust need recommendation. But I cannot forbear intimating to you the expediency of giving effectual encouragement as well to the introduction of new and useful inventions from abroad, as to the exertions of skill and genius in producing them at home; and of facilitating the intercourse between the distant parts of our Country by a due attention to the Post-Office and Post-Roads.

Nor am I less persuaded, that you will agree with me in opinion, that there is nothing which can better deserve your patronage than the promotion of Science and Literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness. In one in which the measures of Government receive their impression so immediately from the sense of the Community as in ours it is proportionably essential. To the security of a free Constitution it contributes in various ways: By convincing those who are intrusted with the public administration, that every valuable end of Government is best answered by the enlightened confidence of the people: and by teaching the people themselves to know and to value their own rights; to discern and provide against invasions of them; to distinguish between oppression and the necessary exercise of lawful authority; between burthens proceeding from a disregard to their convenience and those resulting from the inevitable exigencies of Society; to discriminate the spirit of Liberty from that of licentiousness— cherishing the first, avoiding the last, and uniting a speedy, but temperate vigilance against encroachments, with an inviolable respect to the Laws.

Whether this desirable object will be the best promoted by affording aids to seminaries of learning already established, by the institution of a national University, or by any other expedients, will be well worthy of a place in the deliberations of the Legislature.

Gentlemen of the House of Representatives: I saw, with peculiar pleasure, at the close of the last session, the resolution entered into by you, expressive of your opinion that an adequate provision for the support of the public credit, is a matter of high importance to the natural honor and prosperity. In this sentiment I entirely concur. And, to a perfect confidence in your best endeavors to devise such a provision as will be truly consistent co—operation of the other branch of the Legislature. It would be superfluous to specify inducements to a measure in which the character and permanent interests of the United States are so obviously and so deeply concerned, and which has received so explicit a sanction from your declaration.

Gentlemen of the Senate and House of Representatives: I have directed the proper officers to lay before you, respectively, such papers and estimates as regard the affairs particularly recommended to your consideration, and necessary to convey to you that information of the state of the Union which it is my duty to afford.

The welfare of your country is the great object to which our cares and efforts ought to be directed. And I shall derive great satisfaction from a co—operation with you in the pleasing, though arduous task, of ensuring to our fellow—citizens the blessings which they a right to expect from a free, efficient, and equal government.

Geo. Washington.

Well whoever the hell said it, made good sense.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Well while you sit and let the government shove socialism down your throat , people like me and those armed citizens will be fighting to prevent it.

Bullshit. This is about party loyalty and nothing more. Otherwise we'd have seen these "armed citizens" out when the Patriot Act was being passed and "Free Speech Zones" were being enforced.

Could be, but neveretheless nothing illegal took place.

 

[Immanuel]

Well whoever the hell said it, made good sense.

Even if (or especially if) you were the that said it?

Immie

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Both of the speeches I handed you fit your description. As do others. You're going to have to be more specific. Washington delivered multiple Addresses to the first session of Congress.

His very first address, to the 1st session of Congress. That's where the quote in question supposedly originated.

The first joint session of Congress was on April 6th; Washington was inaugurated on April 30th. I don't see any reference to a speech to Congress prior to that. Are you referring to a speech to the Continental Congress?

I think Care4all got the right speech dated Jan. 8th 1790, but it could have been in a different speech altogether, perhaps even in an address to the Continental Congress.

 

[cunclusion]

If i carry a gun on a plane what will happen to me, if I carry a gun on any public transportation what will people think, if I carry a gun into the bank am I within my right then too. Does it not send a message hell no just places you should not be carrying a weapon.
1. Common Sense.
2. There is no freaking point to it.
3. People do stupid things.

As one goes does the flock and there is always a crazy-bastid in the flock.