President Executes Innocent Skeets.

[Ringel05]

I really don't want to get into this "mine is bigger than yours"

I WAS in 'Nam and, although not a leg or other combat type, I did spend some time on the Mekong riding reefer barges supplying troops in the Delta. They were sitting ducks and there was nothing better than seeing a couple of swift boats coming to take the Cong off our backs.

I've known several men who served on Swift Boats, some in the same squadron as Kerry. To a man, each and every one told me Kerry was nothing more than a "medal collector". As a personnel sergeant, I know exactly how the citations were written up and approved. They had very little to do with actual heroic actions - just a bunch of male bovine excrement to salve the ego and political ambitions of a "connected" officer.

Ah so..people serving on Swift Boats were exposed to alot of danger..except Kerry. And you've known people that served in the same "Squadron". Were they on the boat with him?

And are you now saying the US Military lies about medals?

That there were no heroes in Vietnam?

Or is Kerry a special case.

Each war has it's share of "medal collectors". Some claim Kerry was one of them, some claim he wasn't. Only Kerry can honestly answer that, the rest is all perception.

 

[mudwhistle]

Wait..you didn't serve in the war now?

This is confusing..

Which war do you think I had to serve in?

None.

And I don't come on the board saying I did.

I've seen threads were you say you've "served"..and they generally allude to Vietnam.

Were you there?

Also..using your "Apocalypse Now" example, Willard (The Special Forces guy) is transported to his Destination by a Swift Boat. All but one of the Swift Boat crew is killed. Willard makes it out.

It was a movie.....

And I never alluded anything. I was too young to serve in Vietnam. By the time I turned 18 Vietnam was officially over. I did participate in picking up boat people after Cambodia fell to the Khmar Rouse in 78'. I also served in Somalia leading up to the October 3rd Task Force Ranger mission and Blackhawk Down debacle.

 

[mudwhistle]

I really don't want to get into this "mine is bigger than yours"

I WAS in 'Nam and, although not a leg or other combat type, I did spend some time on the Mekong riding reefer barges supplying troops in the Delta. They were sitting ducks and there was nothing better than seeing a couple of swift boats coming to take the Cong off our backs.

I've known several men who served on Swift Boats, some in the same squadron as Kerry. To a man, each and every one told me Kerry was nothing more than a "medal collector". As a personnel sergeant, I know exactly how the citations were written up and approved. They had very little to do with actual heroic actions - just a bunch of male bovine excrement to salve the ego and political ambitions of a "connected" officer.

Ah so..people serving on Swift Boats were exposed to alot of danger..except Kerry. And you've known people that served in the same "Squadron". Were they on the boat with him?

And are you now saying the US Military lies about medals?

That there were no heroes in Vietnam?

Or is Kerry a special case.

Each war has it's share of "medal collectors". Some claim Kerry was one of them, some claim he wasn't. Only Kerry can honestly answer that, the rest is all perception.

Kerry wasn't in that unit long enough only a couple of months.

 

[Ringel05]

Ah so..people serving on Swift Boats were exposed to alot of danger..except Kerry. And you've known people that served in the same "Squadron". Were they on the boat with him?

And are you now saying the US Military lies about medals?

That there were no heroes in Vietnam?

Or is Kerry a special case.

Each war has it's share of "medal collectors". Some claim Kerry was one of them, some claim he wasn't. Only Kerry can honestly answer that, the rest is all perception.

Kerry wasn't in that unit long enough only a couple of months.

So? That wasn't what I was addressing.
But since you brought it up, in my humble opinion, based on what we know, I believe Kerry had already made up his mind to get into politics, military service and being a "war hero" was a great way to get elected so I think he was a medal collector. Also, he knew the vast majority of Americans were turning against the war so an anti-war position would be the most beneficial to his plans. This does not take away from the fact Kerry did go to war and put his life in danger, he did so.

 

[thanatos144]

President Executes Innocent Skeets.

And therefore we know that his move on guns is very painful to him.

What a sacrifice.

What idiot would even buy that he is pro gun cause he had a photo taken of him shooting a gun wrong?

 

[Sallow]

Which war do you think I had to serve in?

None.

And I don't come on the board saying I did.

I've seen threads were you say you've "served"..and they generally allude to Vietnam.

Were you there?

Also..using your "Apocalypse Now" example, Willard (The Special Forces guy) is transported to his Destination by a Swift Boat. All but one of the Swift Boat crew is killed. Willard makes it out.

It was a movie.....

And you brought it up.

And I never alluded anything. I was too young to serve in Vietnam. By the time I turned 18 Vietnam was officially over. I did participate in picking up boat people after Cambodia fell to the Khmar Rouse in 78'. I also served in Somalia leading up to the October 3rd Task Force Ranger mission and Blackhawk Down debacle.

Sure you have. I was under the impression you were a Vietnam war vet. And I am sure I am not the only one.

So your experience with Swift Boat personnel are as anecdotal as anyone else.

Good to know.

 

[Sallow]

President Executes Innocent Skeets.

And therefore we know that his move on guns is very painful to him.

What a sacrifice.

What idiot would even buy that he is pro gun cause he had a photo taken of him shooting a gun wrong?

Maybe the fact that during his first administration Obama EXPANDED gun rights.

That's probably something you didn't know..or even bothered to look up.

 

[thanatos144]

President Executes Innocent Skeets.

And therefore we know that his move on guns is very painful to him.

What a sacrifice.

What idiot would even buy that he is pro gun cause he had a photo taken of him shooting a gun wrong?

Maybe the fact that during his first administration Obama EXPANDED gun rights.

That's probably something you didn't know..or even bothered to look up.

No he didnt....He just didnt have the power to make stricter gun grabbing laws ....

 

[Sallow]

Each war has it's share of "medal collectors". Some claim Kerry was one of them, some claim he wasn't. Only Kerry can honestly answer that, the rest is all perception.

Kerry wasn't in that unit long enough only a couple of months.

So? That wasn't what I was addressing.
But since you brought it up, in my humble opinion, based on what we know, I believe Kerry had already made up his mind to get into politics, military service and being a "war hero" was a great way to get elected so I think he was a medal collector. Also, he knew the vast majority of Americans were turning against the war so an anti-war position would be the most beneficial to his plans.

That might have been true, initially. But by all accounts of people that served WITH him, he performed with a great deal of competence and valor.

The US seldom awards medals based on "connections". Even if that were true, the accounts of his men back up the awards.

And Kerry sustained pretty severe injuries. You can't fake shrapnel buried so deep into your body..that it is impossible to get it out.

 

[mudwhistle]

Each war has it's share of "medal collectors". Some claim Kerry was one of them, some claim he wasn't. Only Kerry can honestly answer that, the rest is all perception.

Kerry wasn't in that unit long enough only a couple of months.

So? That wasn't what I was addressing.
But since you brought it up, in my humble opinion, based on what we know, I believe Kerry had already made up his mind to get into politics, military service and being a "war hero" was a great way to get elected so I think he was a medal collector. Also, he knew the vast majority of Americans were turning against the war so an anti-war position would be the most beneficial to his plans.

Kerry served but I seriously doubt that he was a "War Hero".

I guess he did what he felt he had to do to grease the skids for a run in politics. Military service shouldn't be a stepping-stone to political office. I don't exactly like the fact that McCain uses it all of the time, but at least he didn't testify about atrocities he never personally witnessed to.

One thing I've discovered while serving in elite units is that there are some guys that deserve more praise than they get but most wouldn't want it. I also know that while serving in those units that some of them are real heroes but what they had to do to survive would be considered barbaric by liberals like John Kerry and Barack Obama. Mainly because they never had to actually do it themselves.

 

[Sallow]

What idiot would even buy that he is pro gun cause he had a photo taken of him shooting a gun wrong?

Maybe the fact that during his first administration Obama EXPANDED gun rights.

That's probably something you didn't know..or even bothered to look up.

No he didnt....He just didnt have the power to make stricter gun grabbing laws ....

Like I said.

You didn't even bother to check.

Major Garrett: Obama has expanded, not reduced gun rights - CBS News

He said the president signed a bill into law about credit card consumer protections that included a measure that allowed people to carry concealed guns in national parks. "President Obama expanded the use of concealed carry on federal property. That's what's going on in Washington recently."

Critical thinking is not your forte..dude.

Stick with bad metal.

That you know.

 

[thanatos144]

Maybe the fact that during his first administration Obama EXPANDED gun rights.

That's probably something you didn't know..or even bothered to look up.

No he didnt....He just didnt have the power to make stricter gun grabbing laws ....

Like I said.

You didn't even bother to check.

Major Garrett: Obama has expanded, not reduced gun rights - CBS News

He said the president signed a bill into law about credit card consumer protections that included a measure that allowed people to carry concealed guns in national parks. "President Obama expanded the use of concealed carry on federal property. That's what's going on in Washington recently."

Critical thinking is not your forte..dude.

Stick with bad metal.

That you know.

He didnt do that you ignorant ****.

 

[mudwhistle]

None.

And I don't come on the board saying I did.

I've seen threads were you say you've "served"..and they generally allude to Vietnam.

Were you there?

Also..using your "Apocalypse Now" example, Willard (The Special Forces guy) is transported to his Destination by a Swift Boat. All but one of the Swift Boat crew is killed. Willard makes it out.

It was a movie.....

And you brought it up.

And I never alluded anything. I was too young to serve in Vietnam. By the time I turned 18 Vietnam was officially over. I did participate in picking up boat people after Cambodia fell to the Khmar Rouse in 78'. I also served in Somalia leading up to the October 3rd Task Force Ranger mission and Blackhawk Down debacle.

Sure you have. I was under the impression you were a Vietnam war vet. And I am sure I am not the only one.

So your experience with Swift Boat personnel are as anecdotal as anyone else.

Good to know.

For someone who doesn't know dick about ether you sure have a big mouth.

I'm not going to argue with someone who's never done ether job. I simply said that anyone who says that driving a Swift Boat was the most dangerous job in Vietnam has to have their head examined.

 

[Ringel05]

Kerry wasn't in that unit long enough only a couple of months.

So? That wasn't what I was addressing.
But since you brought it up, in my humble opinion, based on what we know, I believe Kerry had already made up his mind to get into politics, military service and being a "war hero" was a great way to get elected so I think he was a medal collector. Also, he knew the vast majority of Americans were turning against the war so an anti-war position would be the most beneficial to his plans.

That might have been true, initially. But by all accounts of people that served WITH him, he performed with a great deal of competence and valor.

The US seldom awards medals based on "connections". Even if that were true, the accounts of his men back up the awards.

And Kerry sustained pretty severe injuries. You can't fake shrapnel buried so deep into your body..that it is impossible to get it out.

Unfortunately I edited my post after you responded. I will not take away or diminish the fact that he served in a war zone, he did that of his own volition knowing the potential risk he was taking. My issue is what he did afterwards to, in my opinion, further his political opportunities. He lied about and horribly overstated events he had no real knowledge of and in doing so put those still in country at greater risk. The North Vietnamese have already stated they used incidents like his "testimony" to walk away from peace talks and prolong the war.
"War hero" (with parentheses), means sic.......

 

[Sallow]

I really don't want to get into this "mine is bigger than yours"

I WAS in 'Nam and, although not a leg or other combat type, I did spend some time on the Mekong riding reefer barges supplying troops in the Delta. They were sitting ducks and there was nothing better than seeing a couple of swift boats coming to take the Cong off our backs.

I've known several men who served on Swift Boats, some in the same squadron as Kerry. To a man, each and every one told me Kerry was nothing more than a "medal collector". As a personnel sergeant, I know exactly how the citations were written up and approved. They had very little to do with actual heroic actions - just a bunch of male bovine excrement to salve the ego and political ambitions of a "connected" officer.

Ah so..people serving on Swift Boats were exposed to alot of danger..except Kerry. And you've known people that served in the same "Squadron". Were they on the boat with him?

And are you now saying the US Military lies about medals?

That there were no heroes in Vietnam?

Or is Kerry a special case.

Each war has it's share of "medal collectors". Some claim Kerry was one of them, some claim he wasn't. Only Kerry can honestly answer that, the rest is all perception.

I am in agreement with you.

However..there are things that change people.

McCain was a hot headed flyboy who did a lot of risky things that put people into danger. Until he was captured.

Then..he showed courage, grace and was an absolute hero.

People shouldn't take that away from him simply because they don't agree with him.

 

[mudwhistle]

Kerry wasn't in that unit long enough only a couple of months.

So? That wasn't what I was addressing.
But since you brought it up, in my humble opinion, based on what we know, I believe Kerry had already made up his mind to get into politics, military service and being a "war hero" was a great way to get elected so I think he was a medal collector. Also, he knew the vast majority of Americans were turning against the war so an anti-war position would be the most beneficial to his plans.

That might have been true, initially. But by all accounts of people that served WITH him, he performed with a great deal of competence and valor.

The US seldom awards medals based on "connections". Even if that were true, the accounts of his men back up the awards.

And Kerry sustained pretty severe injuries. You can't fake shrapnel buried so deep into your body..that it is impossible to get it out.

Kerry must be Superman then, because he never was admitted for treatment of said injuries.

First Purple Heart

Some SBVT members have questioned the propriety of Kerry's first Purple Heart, received for a wound sustained on December 2, 1968. Kerry remained on duty after being wounded, and sought treatment at the following day's sick call. They assert that the injury was too minor to merit a citation because the only treatment Kerry received, after the removal of a piece of shrapnel from his arm, was bacitracin (an antibiotic) and a bandage, and he returned to service immediately. Other division members, including at least one SBVT member, received Purple Hearts under similar circumstances[citation needed]. SBVT also claims that the wound was not from enemy fire but was from shrapnel of a grenade he fired himself,[13] a claim unsupported by anyone actually there.

SBVT member Grant Hibbard, who was Kerry's commander at the time, has claimed that Kerry came to him the morning after the incident, after he had been to sick bay, stating that he was eligible for a Purple Heart.[27] Hibbard has also claimed that he denied Kerry’s request and does not know how the award eventually came to be granted, although he had initially stated that he acquiesced on the matter of the award.[28] The presentation letter for the award was dated February 28, 1969.[29]

In addition, Hibbard stated in "Unfit for Command" (Chapter 3) that he had been told that "our units had fired on some VC units running on the beach," which if true would meet the criteria for the Purple Heart.

 

[DougReese]

Which war do you think I had to serve in?

None.

And I don't come on the board saying I did.

I've seen threads were you say you've "served"..and they generally allude to Vietnam.

Were you there?

Also..using your "Apocalypse Now" example, Willard (The Special Forces guy) is transported to his Destination by a Swift Boat. All but one of the Swift Boat crew is killed. Willard makes it out.

It was a movie.....

And I never alluded anything. I was too young to serve in Vietnam. By the time I turned 18 Vietnam was officially over. I did participate in picking up boat people after Cambodia fell to the Khmar Rouse in 78'. I also served in Somalia leading up to the October 3rd Task Force Ranger mission and Blackhawk Down debacle.

Cambodia fell in 1975, just before Vietnam fell.

Doug Reese

 

[DougReese]

Kerry wasn't in that unit long enough only a couple of months.

So? That wasn't what I was addressing.
But since you brought it up, in my humble opinion, based on what we know, I believe Kerry had already made up his mind to get into politics, military service and being a "war hero" was a great way to get elected so I think he was a medal collector. Also, he knew the vast majority of Americans were turning against the war so an anti-war position would be the most beneficial to his plans.

That might have been true, initially. But by all accounts of people that served WITH him, he performed with a great deal of competence and valor.

The US seldom awards medals based on "connections". Even if that were true, the accounts of his men back up the awards.

And Kerry sustained pretty severe injuries. You can't fake shrapnel buried so deep into your body..that it is impossible to get it out.

Actually, his wounds were minor . . . . by his own admission.

And yes, he does still have shrapnel in his leg, but that's because it is not important to get it out. That's only done if it is located where it might do some damage in the future.

Doug Reese

 

[Zander]

Obama is a very good propagandist. The conflation of gun rights and hunting is highly effective in the long run. These types of associations are much more effective than straight out lies that can be easily disproved.

This stupid picture works because low information voters easily get confused.....Ask the average Democrat voter "How many bullets does it take to kill a deer?" and "Why does anyone need a 30 round clip to kill Bambi!!?" ....and slowly they start believing that the 2nd Amendment is about "hunting", instead of what it really is; citizens protection against government tyranny.

Another PR victory for the Obama NeoComs

 

[DougReese]

yeah sure he does, all them FOUR months he spent in Vietman

How Long was John Kerry in Vietnam?John Kerry served in the United States Navy. He was in Vietnam from November 1968 until March of 1969 for a total of four months and twelve days.
http://answers.ask.com/Society/Other/how_long_was_...

He spent 4 months on a swift boat..probably the most dangerous assignment in the Navy at that time.

Prior to the assignment, he served on the Gridley.

The Gridley traveled to several places, including Wellington in New Zealand, Subic Bay in the Philippines, and the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam. The executive officer of the Gridley has described the deployment: "We deployed from San Diego to the Vietnam theatre in early 1968 after only a six-month turnaround and spent most of a four month deployment on rescue station in the Gulf of Tonkin, standing by to pick up downed aviators. It was a fairly grueling tour of duty. Our helicopter was shot up trying to rescue a downed pilot and the door gunner was killed. The crew performed well and John Kerry's performance in all aspects of his duty was outstanding." [5] The ship departed for the U.S. on May 27, 1968, and returned to port at Long Beach, California on June 6. Ten days after returning, on June 16, Kerry was promoted to the rank of Lieutenant, junior grade. On June 20, he left the Gridley for special Swift boat training at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado.
Military career of John Kerry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't know why you folks trash war fighters and glorify stay at home flyboys.

UDT/SEALs or Navy Diver was much more dangerous.


Swiftboat duty was gravy. You've seen "Apocalypse Now" too many times.

For you to say Swift Boat duty was gravy, tells me you know nothing about it. Nothing whatsoever.

Doug Reese