These people are extremist left wingers and a liberal to the left of center looks like a conservative to them and a moderate democrat looks like a RW fanatic to them. One of them got huffy with me because I answered his insult in kind. What a jerk!
Pre-existing conditions coverage
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Listening
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He and Schillian have always been turds in the punchbowl. This guy is particularly funny to read. He's a self righteous ass.
I find them very arrogant in their rhetoric. I actually support most liberal goals socially, but not to the extreme. But you can't go half way with people like them.
chesswarsnow
"SASQUATCH IS WATCHING"
Sorry bout that,
1. Didn't Obama kill the Pontiac?
2. You just thought he did,...lol!
3. Poor American's go i, Poor ole,.........
Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
1. Didn't Obama kill the Pontiac?
2. You just thought he did,...lol!
3. Poor American's go i, Poor ole,.........
Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
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Bfgrn
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Another Twilight Zone episode...the non sequitur time traveler.
Context?
The ACA was passed in 2009/10 by ONLY Democrats. That is the ONLY 'context' of the ACA.
In 2009/10, 'scholars' at the American Enterprise Institute, a right wing think tank, were ordered not to speak to the media on the subject of health care reform because they agreed with too much of what Obama was trying to do.
Bfgrn
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You are not only confused, you are TOTALLY confused. You don't even know who said what. I was calling out the scum bag who said this:
Listening said:
Is your name Listening?
I am against off shoring of jobs. It is not a liberal creation, it is the malfeasance of the Reagan era.
Bfgrn
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Beware of the half-truth. You may have gotten hold of the wrong half.
Seymour Essrog
You are welcome to whatever beliefs float your boat. But they were not the beliefs of our founding fathers or John F. Kennedy.
"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government."
Thomas Jefferson to the Republican Citizens of Washington County, Maryland" (March 31, 1809).
The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.
Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Larkin Smith (1809).
Bfgrn
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Unfortunate for you, F.A. Hayek would call you a conservative.
“If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.”
Douglas Adams
Why I am Not a Conservative by F. A. Hayek
In general, it can probably be said that the conservative does not object to coercion or arbitrary power so long as it is used for what he regards as the right purposes. He believes that if government is in the hands of decent men, it ought not to be too much restricted by rigid rules. Since he is essentially opportunist and lacks principles, his main hope must be that the wise and the good will rule - not merely by example, as we all must wish, but by authority given to them and enforced by them.
When I say that the conservative lacks principles, I do not mean to suggest that he lacks moral conviction. The typical conservative is indeed usually a man of very strong moral convictions. What I mean is that he has no political principles which enable him to work with people whose moral values differ from his own for a political order in which both can obey their convictions. It is the recognition of such principles that permits the coexistence of different sets of values that makes it possible to build a peaceful society with a minimum of force. The acceptance of such principles means that we agree to tolerate much that we dislike.
To live and work successfully with others requires more than faithfulness to one's concrete aims. It requires an intellectual commitment to a type of order in which, even on issues which to one are fundamental, others are allowed to pursue different ends.
It is for this reason that to the liberal neither moral nor religious ideals are proper objects of coercion, while both conservatives and socialists recognize no such limits.
In the last resort, the conservative position rests on the belief that in any society there are recognizably superior persons whose inherited standards and values and position ought to be protected and who should have a greater influence on public affairs than others. The liberal, of course, does not deny that there are some superior people - he is not an egalitarian - but he denies that anyone has authority to decide who these superior people are. While the conservative inclines to defend a particular established hierarchy and wishes authority to protect the status of those whom he values, the liberal feels that no respect for established values can justify the resort to privilege or monopoly or any other coercive power of the state in order to shelter such people against the forces of economic change. Though he is fully aware of the important role that cultural and intellectual elites have played in the evolution of civilization, he also believes that these elites have to prove themselves by their capacity to maintain their position under the same rules that apply to all others.
Closely connected with this is the usual attitude of the conservative to democracy. I have made it clear earlier that I do not regard majority rule as an end but merely as a means, or perhaps even as the least evil of those forms of government from which we have to choose. But I believe that the conservatives deceive themselves when they blame the evils of our time on democracy. The chief evil is unlimited government, and nobody is qualified to wield unlimited power. The powers which modern democracy possesses would be even more intolerable in the hands of some small elite.
So why did you bring it up to me? Just like to fish for insults?
If you are against offshoring of jobs, you are no liberal. A true liberal, like me, is concerned that there is equality, not just civilly but as much as possible, economically. You are a bigot. You could care less of poor Indians or Africans starve to death, so long as your elitist labor thugs in the US get all they want. I expected you to say that. It proves your colors, and bfgrn, there is no way you can spin your say out of this. Especially since for every job offshored at least one is created in the US according to studies, so found as many as 1.7 new jobs created, and generally jobs requiring more skills. Now if your left wing nut buddies had not thrown so much money at education trying to get people who were not college oriented into skill training, our unemployment would be down to.
You are a fraud. All you want is your left wing power structure to continue to destroy our country.
Thanks for playing....you lose.... pitifully! Bye now, go crawl back under your rock and play with yourself.
Bfgrn
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President Kennedy's "support of the rights of captains of industry"
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWNhWANkq0Q]President Kennedy calls out the steel companies (1962) - YouTube[/ame]
News Conference 30 (April 11, 1962)
President John F. Kennedy
State Department Auditorium, Washington, D.C.
Wednesday, April 11, 1962, 3:30 p.m.
Official White House Transcript
THE PRESIDENT: "Good afternoon. I have several announcements to make.
The simultaneous and identical actions of United States Steel and other leading steel corporations, increasing steel prices by some 6 dollars a ton, constitute a wholly unjustifiable and irresponsible defiance of the public interest.
In this serious hour in our nation's history, when we are confronted with grave crises in Berlin and Southeast Asia, when we are devoting our energies to economic recovery and stability, when we are asking Reservists to leave their homes and families for months on end, and servicemen to risk their lives -- and four were killed in the last two days in Viet Nam -- and asking union members to hold down their wage requests, at a time when restraint and sacrifice are being asked of every citizen, the American people will find it hard, as I do, to accept a situation in which a tiny handful of steel executives whose pursuit of private power and profit exceeds their sense of public responsibility can show such utter contempt for the interests of 185 million Americans.
...a few gigantic corporations have decided to increase prices in ruthless disregard of their public responsibilities.
Some time ago I asked each American to consider what he would do for his country and I asked the steel companies. In the last 24 hours we had their answer."
I agree! "The chief evil is unlimited government," that which has been pushed by the extreme left wing of the Democrat party.The small elite group of left wing extremists are destroying our country. And you bfgrn are a fraud. You call yourself a liberal, yet you could care less about the less fortunate people of the world. You have no empathy for humanity. That's where my liberalism takes you to task. As a liberal humanist with moderate political leanings, I care about the equality and quality of life of all humans, not just your elitist thugs.
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Bfgrn
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Bfgrn said:
dnsmith35...liberal humanist, slave trader and right wing turd...
The Rich Class and Offshore Worlds
Warren Buffett, sometimes described as the twentieth century’s most successful investor, recently maintained: ‘There is class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning’. This article describes how this rich class did indeed wage class war through deploying the striking new strategy of offshoring. The ‘rich class’ refers to high net worth individuals and families, the owners/managers of major corporations and professional service companies, many thinktanks, and leading policy-makers.
How did the rich class develop such a strategy? We know that all societies entail the movements of peoples and objects, but capitalist societies seem to elevate the scale and impact of such movement to dramatically new levels. Many analysts believe there is a massive ratcheting up of this borderlessness from the 1980s onwards, and that this is a key part of the neo-liberal redrawing of almost all societies around the world.
This movement of money, people, ideas, images, information and objects had been thought of as economically, politically and culturally beneficial. Most aspects of contemporary societies were believed to be positively transformed through increased cosmopolitanism and borderlessness. The world was increasingly open especially if one lived, worked and consumed near the centre of this world of greater opportunity and choice.
But this 1990s decade did not turn out to be the harbinger of a long term, optimistic and borderless future. Many texts especially in the new century reveal the dark side to borderlessness. Flowing across borders are not just consumer goods and new services, but terrorists, environmental risks, trafficked women, drug runners, international criminals, outsourced work, slave traders, asylum seekers, property speculators, smuggled workers, waste, financial risks and especially untaxed income. So rather than there being a general process of increased open movement, a borderless world presupposes borders and secrets. New borders are regularly being created, policed and surveilled.
A borderless world is one of ‘secret worlds’ and this is to be seen in many domains, of the offshoring of manufacturing work, of waste, especially e-waste, of energy, of torture, of leisure and pleasure, of CO2 emissions and of taxation. Offshoring involves moving resources, practices, peoples and monies from one national territory to another but hiding them within secrecy jurisdictions as they move through routes wholly or partly hidden from view. Offshoring involves evading rules, laws, taxes, regulations or norms. It is all about rule-breaking, getting around rules in ways that are illegal, or go against the spirit of the law, or which use laws in one jurisdiction to undermine laws in another. Offshore worlds are full of secrets and lies.
These offshore worlds have been made possible by the enhanced development of various new sociotechnical mobility-systems, of container-based cargo shipping; aeromobility; the internet and new virtual worlds; car and lorry traffic; new electronic money transfer systems; the growth of taxation, legal and financial expertise oriented to avoiding national regulations; and the proliferation of ‘mobile lives’ with frequent legal and illegal movement across borders.
Such an offshoring world is dynamic, reorganising economic, social, political and material relations between societies and within them, as populations and states find that more and more resources, practices, peoples and monies are made or kept secret. The global order is the very opposite of a simply open world – it is one of concealment, of very many secret gardens mainly orchestrated in and for the rich class.
Indeed since the development of neo-liberalism in the later 1980s there has been an astonishing growth in the movement of finance and wealth to and through the world’s sixty to seventy tax havens which make up over one-quarter of contemporary societies. These tax havens, or ‘treas*ure islands’, include Switzerland, Jersey, Manhattan, Cayman Islands, Monaco, Panama, Dubai, Liechtenstein, Singapore, Hong Kong, Gibraltar, City of London and Delaware. The development of ‘secrecy jurisdictions’, or in France what are known as ‘paradis fiscal’, are core to this neo-liberalisation of the world economy from around 1980 and the ending of many exchange controls. To be offshore is to be in paradise, by contrast with the high-state-high-tax life experienced onshore. Tax havens are places of escape and freedom, a paradise of low taxes, wealth management, deregulation, secrecy and often nice beaches.
This rich class is the beneficiary of these tax havens. Almost all major companies have offshore accounts/subsidiar*ies (83 per cent), more than half of world trade passes through them, almost all high net worth individuals possess offshore accounts enabling tax ‘planning’, and ninety-nine of Europe’s hundred largest com*panies use offshore subsidiaries. As a consequence one-quarter to one-third of all global wealth is held ‘offshore’. And the scale of offshored money makes the world much more unequal than researchers previously imagined.
"To unequal privileges among members of the same society the spirit of our nation is, with one accord, adverse." --Thomas Jefferson to Hugh White, 1801. ME 10:258
Bfgrn
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Bfgrn
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1) I brought it up because you decided to defend Listening, instead of criticizing his horrible comment.
2) The irony is thick...
Offshoring happens because foreign nations are poor - their wages and standard of living is so low that it makes their labor much cheaper than American labor. To put it another way, the only way American jobs can go overseas is if the Chinese, Brazilians, Mexicans and East Indians remain poor. Every cheap garment or DVD player you buy is cheap because they're poor. Your access to cheap DVD players depends on them staying poor. When their standard of living catches up with yours, it will be impossible for your DVD player to remain as cheap, because foreign labor costs will go up with their standard of living and that will drive up the price of your DVD player. So, basically, if you want to continue to have access to cheap DVD players those Chinese, Mexican and East Indian workers must stay poor. Now how is that NOT racism and exploitation?
chikenwing
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Got a Letter in the mail,stating what the Dems cried long and hard would never happen. My doctor had to get permission from the insurance company to perform a CT scan,normally they would have just ordered it and go on with treatment,not that way anymore. Insurance My doctor never had to ask for permission to do common diagnostics,no he does.
To answer your question simply, it is not racism or exploitation because the wages paid for their labor is equivalent to their specific place on the labor evolution time line. Those who get the jobs emerge as the new "middle class" of their particular economic system. In India specially (of which I am personally aware) because of off shoring since the late 70s, there is a thriving middle class of over 300 million people, comparative to our entire population. That group would still be in relative poverty had we not exported jobs there. That group is growing because they are now consumers creating other jobs within their society. You have swallowed the left wing extremist rhetoric hook, line and sinker, and now you are trying to spread "the lie."
Second, our industry does not want them to remain poor, another left wing lie, because the new Indian middle class is starting to consume American goods and services and will continue to do so into the future, eventually becoming a huge new market for the west as we are now a huge market for them.
It is obvious that you are not only confused about offshore jobs, you are completely ignorant of the fact that studies show offshoring those jobs creates new jobs here in the US, so it is a win, win, situation.
The left wing extremists, (of which you are one) like to poo, poo, the whole concept of globalism either out of fear and ignorance or because of racism and bigotry, in the hopes of keeping the labor situation in the US in the 1960s strong unionist status. You could care less about other human lives in the world so long as your pet labor is an elite and over paid force.
Being a liberal is more than just being "for the people," "for the little guy," for equality and civil rights for all, for universal health care and good public education. It is about doing what it takes to see to it those goals are reached to the utmost possibility. Your concept of liberalism doesn't extend beyond the tip of your nose, if that far. Your "liberalism" is elitism, protecting your turf, narrowness of view; progress.....but only for those you consider "deserving" of your altruism.
This ignorance is partly caused by your never getting out of your "box" and trying to understand and empathize with the people in the rest of the world. You haven't been there, you haven't studied their sociology, and you don't really give a damn.
BTW, I did not defend Listening, I made my own points about that drunk, murdering, blob of fat you call "a great senator," a person I would walk out on if he came to spew his extremist filth in my home town. I don't wish him dead, I just wish he was reduced in power to what he really is, an enemy of humanity. You could care less what he is, so long as he is good for your left wing extremist power structure.
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Bfgrn
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"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy
And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
President John F. Kennedy
The irony has become so thick from you that I really don't know where to start.
Your post is unbridled right wing propaganda. It IS the words of a unintelligent parrot defending an aristocracy that has exploited cheap labor, no regulations, no environmental protections, no safe workplace policies and no regard for human life; the very CORE of conservatism. It is NOT the words of a liberal.
Being a liberal is ALL ABOUT being "for the people," "for the little guy," for equality and civil rights for all, for universal health care and good public education...FOR ALL.
Liberals have always fought for those rights not only for Americans, but for ALL human beings. That means that the worker in India, China and other countries have the basic human right to safe working conditions, fair wages and a safe environment to raise their families in.
Once those basic rights come to be in outsource countries, your beloved elites will pull up stakes and move on to exploit new markets to exploit.
It was made VERY clear by one of the icons of the corporate elites who now control this nation. Jack Welch, chairman and CEO of General Electric between 1981 and 2001, who has said, "Ideally you'd have every plant you own on a barge" -- ready to move if any national government tried to impose restraints on the factories' operations, or if workers demanded better wages and working conditions.
GE: Every Plant on a Barge
"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower
"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru and co-author of the GOP's 'Contract with America'
"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy
And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
President John F. Kennedy
The irony has become so thick from you that I really don't know where to start.
Your post is unbridled right wing propaganda. It IS the words of a unintelligent parrot defending an aristocracy that has exploited cheap labor, no regulations, no environmental protections, no safe workplace policies and no regard for human life; the very CORE of conservatism. It is NOT the words of a liberal.
Being a liberal is ALL ABOUT being "for the people," "for the little guy," for equality and civil rights for all, for universal health care and good public education...FOR ALL.
Liberals have always fought for those rights not only for Americans, but for ALL human beings. That means that the worker in India, China and other countries have the basic human right to safe working conditions, fair wages and a safe environment to raise their families in.
Once those basic rights come to be in outsource countries, your beloved elites will pull up stakes and move on to exploit new markets to exploit.
It was made VERY clear by one of the icons of the corporate elites who now control this nation. Jack Welch, chairman and CEO of General Electric between 1981 and 2001, who has said, "Ideally you'd have every plant you own on a barge" -- ready to move if any national government tried to impose restraints on the factories' operations, or if workers demanded better wages and working conditions.
GE: Every Plant on a Barge
And somehow you have taken my concern for the value of every life to equate my thinking to Jack Welch?
"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower
"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru and co-author of the GOP's 'Contract with America'
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Well whoop de do. Are you suggesting I disagree with any of that? In what way? That was then, this is now. As a bona fide liberal I respect all of those things AND I also respect the rights and liberties of people all over the world.
Don't you think it is time for you to stop being an elitist liberal and be for progressive rights for all people everywhere instead of being a "liberal with borders"?
Listening
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Here that whooshing sound as most everything that is posted in your direction goes over your head ?
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