Poll: More blame Obama for poor economy, unemployment

[Kex]

It is the truth.
Obama has prolonged this recession beyond what it should ever have been. Between massive bail outs for everyone under the sun, huge threatened tax increases, time spent on healthcare, etc etc he has made a mess of this economy.
This should have been a 6 month mild recession. Instead because of government intervention it has become a 2 year colossus.

There you have it America......

Worst recession in 70 years and a one year reversal was not fast enough for the resident Republicans. Maybe because it took Republicans 18 months to acknowledge we WERE in a recession.

"The Economy is fundamentally strong" J McCain

It became the worst recession in 70 years AFTER Obama took office. ANd because of it.
McCain was right. The economy was fundamentally sound. Mis-steps by the government caused it to go down.

If we go by stock markets you're full of shit.

 

[saveliberty]

There you have it America......

Worst recession in 70 years and a one year reversal was not fast enough for the resident Republicans. Maybe because it took Republicans 18 months to acknowledge we WERE in a recession.

"The Economy is fundamentally strong" J McCain

It became the worst recession in 70 years AFTER Obama took office. ANd because of it.
McCain was right. The economy was fundamentally sound. Mis-steps by the government caused it to go down.

While this seemingly conventional wisdom sounds plausible, in all actuality, the blame with the current economic system lies not with Obama, or, ironically enough Bush, despite my disdain from him.

This economic crisis was the result of the policies of Reagan and Clinton deregulating key institutions that were designed to ensure these things don't spiral out of control. Their economy was more predictable and stable due to less globalization factors, and there parties were flexible, allowing them to avert this for a good amount of time by having flexible diplomacy.

The faults of Obama and Bush are not that they started this recession, but rather that both parties were unwilling to reinstate some of the key regulation and strengthen some of the existing institutions to shore up the fundamentals of our economic system due to the unpopularity of some of the initial measures required.

But now people realize that complete deregulation of a free market is only possible if you live in a purely capitalist, economically liberal paradigm. That doesn't exist in this world, nor would it ever. I won't possibly discuss why a liberal, capitalist, "pure" democracy couldn't exist in an age where governing is needed to watch so many people, but if you disagree with this then you essentially disagree with reality so I can't really discuss anything with you there.

The conclusion? Like another poster said, it's not to just keep bouncing in between both parties for the lesser evil. It's time for serious overhaul of the parties, an instilling of young, progressive blood for both the conservative and liberal base that really understands key emerging issues, and we need to utilize more of the technological capabilities we have to diffuse information and improve voter education processes so that more people can learn about issues in an unbiased manner and we can get back on track making efficient, beneficial decisions for our nation.

I see you have already sold your soul to the government. You expect government to protect you, offer economic certainty, be progressive in all things and offer unbiased information on which to make educated decisions. Wake the Hell up son!

 

[rightwinger]

It is the truth.
Obama has prolonged this recession beyond what it should ever have been. Between massive bail outs for everyone under the sun, huge threatened tax increases, time spent on healthcare, etc etc he has made a mess of this economy.
This should have been a 6 month mild recession. Instead because of government intervention it has become a 2 year colossus.

There you have it America......

Worst recession in 70 years and a one year reversal was not fast enough for the resident Republicans. Maybe because it took Republicans 18 months to acknowledge we WERE in a recession.

"The Economy is fundamentally strong" J McCain

It became the worst recession in 70 years AFTER Obama took office. ANd because of it.
McCain was right. The economy was fundamentally sound. Mis-steps by the government caused it to go down.

You obviously ignored the unemployment figures, stock market prices, decline in GDP during the last six months of Bush. You also ignored the reversal of these numbers two months after Obama took office

 

[hyakku]

It became the worst recession in 70 years AFTER Obama took office. ANd because of it.
McCain was right. The economy was fundamentally sound. Mis-steps by the government caused it to go down.

While this seemingly conventional wisdom sounds plausible, in all actuality, the blame with the current economic system lies not with Obama, or, ironically enough Bush, despite my disdain from him.

This economic crisis was the result of the policies of Reagan and Clinton deregulating key institutions that were designed to ensure these things don't spiral out of control. Their economy was more predictable and stable due to less globalization factors, and there parties were flexible, allowing them to avert this for a good amount of time by having flexible diplomacy.

The faults of Obama and Bush are not that they started this recession, but rather that both parties were unwilling to reinstate some of the key regulation and strengthen some of the existing institutions to shore up the fundamentals of our economic system due to the unpopularity of some of the initial measures required.

But now people realize that complete deregulation of a free market is only possible if you live in a purely capitalist, economically liberal paradigm. That doesn't exist in this world, nor would it ever. I won't possibly discuss why a liberal, capitalist, "pure" democracy couldn't exist in an age where governing is needed to watch so many people, but if you disagree with this then you essentially disagree with reality so I can't really discuss anything with you there.

The conclusion? Like another poster said, it's not to just keep bouncing in between both parties for the lesser evil. It's time for serious overhaul of the parties, an instilling of young, progressive blood for both the conservative and liberal base that really understands key emerging issues, and we need to utilize more of the technological capabilities we have to diffuse information and improve voter education processes so that more people can learn about issues in an unbiased manner and we can get back on track making efficient, beneficial decisions for our nation.

I see you have already sold your soul to the government. You expect government to protect you, offer economic certainty, be progressive in all things and offer unbiased information on which to make educated decisions. Wake the Hell up son!

First of all, even the constitution recognizes that the point of government is to protect the rights and liberties of the people. Otherwise, we'd just live in anarchic blocs of people and self govern ourselves, and we as a collective species moved AWAY from that. I don't know why you would want to go BACK into decadence, poverty and technological stupidity all to say that you can run around naked without anyone yelling at you.

AS for as economic certainty, in a capitalist, liberal democratic state, i expect the state to facilitate conditions so that the market can work as freely as possible while being bound by the natural constraints that liberal democracies provide. These constraints aren't bad, they prevent irresponsible policies of a few who may hold temporary power from affecting the quality of life for the whole who hold PERMANENT power through their voting voice. WE voted these initial regulations and institutions in.

WE are the government. I'm tired of this older generation trying to distance themselves and cause some type of weird divide. I didn't sell my soul to the government, I AM the government. You ARE the government.

American's seem to have forgotten why we founded this country. We're not supposed to be afraid of OUR government, because we designed the AMERICAN government to be one of the PEOPLE. The reason we are slowly losing control to private interests, lobbying groups and political parties is because we are slowly allowing outside sources to compose our government. We are allowing our complacency and our rising standard of living to dull our minds and strengthen our bones.

I won't allow it. My generation is one in which we have grown up with a War on an ideology, American standing has fallen, and we are at a moment where we can regain our position as leaders and innovators, or we can begin a slow decline from hegemon to simple world power. I'm not willing to see America's status falter, but i'm also not willing to stick to ideological idiocies.

It's time to stop being defeatist and realize that our country operated like that just fine up until about 80 years ago (I really detest Woodrow Wilson, ironic as a democrat). We were providing ourselves with unbiased information and making smart economic plans for economic certainty. WE did this by electing and voting for officials who would represent these interests based on clear cut information that was far harder to pollute and dilute due to the limited amount of channels then (Books, telegrams, etc).

This is the true problem, alarmist like you, who fail to recognize that fear of the government in AMERICA means fear of yourself, fear of your neighbor, and fear of the power you all hold as one nation. Until you learn this simple fact, you'll mistake it for government takeover, but once you have learned this, you'll understand that WE should be the government, as it was designed to be, not the interests we are slowly allowing to usurp our political thrones.

 

[Kex]

It became the worst recession in 70 years AFTER Obama took office. ANd because of it.
McCain was right. The economy was fundamentally sound. Mis-steps by the government caused it to go down.

While this seemingly conventional wisdom sounds plausible, in all actuality, the blame with the current economic system lies not with Obama, or, ironically enough Bush, despite my disdain from him.

This economic crisis was the result of the policies of Reagan and Clinton deregulating key institutions that were designed to ensure these things don't spiral out of control. Their economy was more predictable and stable due to less globalization factors, and there parties were flexible, allowing them to avert this for a good amount of time by having flexible diplomacy.

The faults of Obama and Bush are not that they started this recession, but rather that both parties were unwilling to reinstate some of the key regulation and strengthen some of the existing institutions to shore up the fundamentals of our economic system due to the unpopularity of some of the initial measures required.

But now people realize that complete deregulation of a free market is only possible if you live in a purely capitalist, economically liberal paradigm. That doesn't exist in this world, nor would it ever. I won't possibly discuss why a liberal, capitalist, "pure" democracy couldn't exist in an age where governing is needed to watch so many people, but if you disagree with this then you essentially disagree with reality so I can't really discuss anything with you there.

The conclusion? Like another poster said, it's not to just keep bouncing in between both parties for the lesser evil. It's time for serious overhaul of the parties, an instilling of young, progressive blood for both the conservative and liberal base that really understands key emerging issues, and we need to utilize more of the technological capabilities we have to diffuse information and improve voter education processes so that more people can learn about issues in an unbiased manner and we can get back on track making efficient, beneficial decisions for our nation.

I see you have already sold your soul to the government. You expect government to protect you, offer economic certainty, be progressive in all things and offer unbiased information on which to make educated decisions. Wake the Hell up son!

Just curious to know what is your stand on immigration. From your post I can only assume that you're completely fine with immigrants, even illegal, competing for your job. That's the only thing I wanted to make clear. Thanks.

 

[boedicca]

If we go by stock markets you're full of shit.

The stock market represents Cronyism at its finest. Government is getting bigger and the Mega Corps that make up the major indices are lined up to get a cut of taxpayer money.

The truer metric of economic health is Unemployment, which is still dismal. Private sector jobs are continuing to disappear. That is the issue - and Obama's policies are worsening the problem.

 

[hyakku]

While this seemingly conventional wisdom sounds plausible, in all actuality, the blame with the current economic system lies not with Obama, or, ironically enough Bush, despite my disdain from him.

This economic crisis was the result of the policies of Reagan and Clinton deregulating key institutions that were designed to ensure these things don't spiral out of control. Their economy was more predictable and stable due to less globalization factors, and there parties were flexible, allowing them to avert this for a good amount of time by having flexible diplomacy.

The faults of Obama and Bush are not that they started this recession, but rather that both parties were unwilling to reinstate some of the key regulation and strengthen some of the existing institutions to shore up the fundamentals of our economic system due to the unpopularity of some of the initial measures required.

But now people realize that complete deregulation of a free market is only possible if you live in a purely capitalist, economically liberal paradigm. That doesn't exist in this world, nor would it ever. I won't possibly discuss why a liberal, capitalist, "pure" democracy couldn't exist in an age where governing is needed to watch so many people, but if you disagree with this then you essentially disagree with reality so I can't really discuss anything with you there.

The conclusion? Like another poster said, it's not to just keep bouncing in between both parties for the lesser evil. It's time for serious overhaul of the parties, an instilling of young, progressive blood for both the conservative and liberal base that really understands key emerging issues, and we need to utilize more of the technological capabilities we have to diffuse information and improve voter education processes so that more people can learn about issues in an unbiased manner and we can get back on track making efficient, beneficial decisions for our nation.

I see you have already sold your soul to the government. You expect government to protect you, offer economic certainty, be progressive in all things and offer unbiased information on which to make educated decisions. Wake the Hell up son!

Just curious to know what is your stand on immigration. From your post I can only assume that you're completely fine with immigrants, even illegal, to compete for your job. That's the only thing I wanted to make clear. Thanks.

I can talk about that briefly too.

We have mechanisms in place that allow for LEGAL, fine immigration. I don't think these institutions are broken or anything like that, and they should be used. Illegal residents, on the other hand, bother me. In terms of economic terms, they actually ADD more to the economy than they take many studies have suggested, but that's not justifiable enough to violate the sovereignty and the rules of a foreign nation that already has lax rules to allow immigration.

I recognize life is difficult outside of the U.S. in many parts of South America. "No es facil" a girl once told me, but I'm no Wilsonian. We don't need to parada democratic ideals and fling open our borders to everyone, as it is a security dilemma that we are slowly starting to see play out.

My brief conclusion (again, I can go into a more lengthy discussion in a more appropriate thread and when i'm not running to class), is that the current institutions and laws we have to allow LEGAL immigration should still be enforced and strengthened. They should be bolstered to include legislation that more aptly deals with residents in "limbo" (in between receiving citizinships) through improved methods of expediency, such as regional green cards that allow them to work and pay taxes in certain regions and vote in local municipalities without participating in state or federal processes. This would slowly help integrate the second generation of immigrants and make them AMERICAN -X citizens, rather than X- American (i.e., Colombian American, etc.). Illegal aliens should be dealt with in a far faster process, but again, only after these new, strengthened institutions have been implemented to allow for a fair, judicial process.

Immigration isn't the bane of America, we started with it. The clear violation of our sovereignty however, isn't acceptable, especially when we can work closely with the Mexican government to strengthen current institutions and regimes, as well as help stymie their violence problem and make mexico more attractive to its own residents again.

 

[Kex]

If we go by stock markets you're full of shit.

The stock market represents Cronyism at its finest. Government is getting bigger and the Mega Corps that make up the major indices are lined up to get a cut of taxpayer money.

The truer metric of economic health is Unemployment, which is still dismal. Private sector jobs are continuing to disappear. That is the issue - and Obama's policies are worsening the problem.

Let me paraphrase your comment " I go by the statistic that makes the other side look worse".

 

[boedicca]

[
You obviously ignored the unemployment figures, stock market prices, decline in GDP during the last six months of Bush. You also ignored the reversal of these numbers two months after Obama took office

No, I have not.

Private sector unemployment decreased (again) in March, which I have pointed out in a couple of other threads today.

The recession, which began in 2007, should have bottomed out by late 2008 - instead, the Obama policies have prolonged it. Increasing taxes and expanding government suppress private sector recovery, which is exactly what is happening today.

 

[Kex]

I see you have already sold your soul to the government. You expect government to protect you, offer economic certainty, be progressive in all things and offer unbiased information on which to make educated decisions. Wake the Hell up son!

Just curious to know what is your stand on immigration. From your post I can only assume that you're completely fine with immigrants, even illegal, to compete for your job. That's the only thing I wanted to make clear. Thanks.

I can talk about that briefly too.

We have mechanisms in place that allow for LEGAL, fine immigration. I don't think these institutions are broken or anything like that, and they should be used. Illegal residents, on the other hand, bother me. In terms of economic terms, they actually ADD more to the economy than they take many studies have suggested, but that's not justifiable enough to violate the sovereignty and the rules of a foreign nation that already has lax rules to allow immigration.

I recognize life is difficult outside of the U.S. in many parts of South America. "No es facil" a girl once told me, but I'm no Wilsonian. We don't need to parada democratic ideals and fling open our borders to everyone, as it is a security dilemma that we are slowly starting to see play out.

My brief conclusion (again, I can go into a more lengthy discussion in a more appropriate thread and when i'm not running to class), is that the current institutions and laws we have to allow LEGAL immigration should still be enforced and strengthened. They should be bolstered to include legislation that more aptly deals with residents in "limbo" (in between receiving citizinships) through improved methods of expediency, such as regional green cards that allow them to work and pay taxes in certain regions and vote in local municipalities without participating in state or federal processes. This would slowly help integrate the second generation of immigrants and make them AMERICAN -X citizens, rather than X- American (i.e., Colombian American, etc.). Illegal aliens should be dealt with in a far faster process, but again, only after these new, strengthened institutions have been implemented to allow for a fair, judicial process.

Immigration isn't the bane of America, we started with it. The clear violation of our sovereignty however, isn't acceptable, especially when we can work closely with the Mexican government to strengthen current institutions and regimes, as well as help stymie their violence problem and make mexico more attractive to its own residents again.

Cool story, bro.

However couple of points:

1. Don't make your comments lengthy. It is internet, attention span doesn't last past 10 sentences. Be brief, knowledgeable and wit. That's the key.

2. I was not interested in your opinion, I was responding to the point the poster made, that he doesn't want government to protect his economic activity in any way, shape or form. His hypocritical answer is what I was expecting, not thought out response of yours.

3. No offense.

 

[Kex]

[
You obviously ignored the unemployment figures, stock market prices, decline in GDP during the last six months of Bush. You also ignored the reversal of these numbers two months after Obama took office

No, I have not.

Private sector unemployment decreased (again) in March, which I have pointed out in a couple of other threads today.

The recession, which began in 2007, should have bottomed out by late 2008 - instead, the Obama policies have prolonged it. Increasing taxes and expanding government suppress private sector recovery, which is exactly what is happening today.

Besides Stimulus for FY 2009, what the **** Obama did to prolong the recession, also what the **** are you talking about when you say Increased taxes in the terms of FY2009?

 

[boedicca]

If we go by stock markets you're full of shit.

The stock market represents Cronyism at its finest. Government is getting bigger and the Mega Corps that make up the major indices are lined up to get a cut of taxpayer money.

The truer metric of economic health is Unemployment, which is still dismal. Private sector jobs are continuing to disappear. That is the issue - and Obama's policies are worsening the problem.

Let me paraphrase your comment " I go by the statistic that makes the other side look worse".

Let me paraphrase for you: You feed on whatever pablum the leftwing media push.

What matters most to the majority of Americans? Jobs.

Go ahead, ask some people who are long term unemployed without the prospect of a job if they think the economy has recovered because the DOW is up.

 

[hyakku]

Just curious to know what is your stand on immigration. From your post I can only assume that you're completely fine with immigrants, even illegal, to compete for your job. That's the only thing I wanted to make clear. Thanks.

I can talk about that briefly too.

We have mechanisms in place that allow for LEGAL, fine immigration. I don't think these institutions are broken or anything like that, and they should be used. Illegal residents, on the other hand, bother me. In terms of economic terms, they actually ADD more to the economy than they take many studies have suggested, but that's not justifiable enough to violate the sovereignty and the rules of a foreign nation that already has lax rules to allow immigration.

I recognize life is difficult outside of the U.S. in many parts of South America. "No es facil" a girl once told me, but I'm no Wilsonian. We don't need to parada democratic ideals and fling open our borders to everyone, as it is a security dilemma that we are slowly starting to see play out.

My brief conclusion (again, I can go into a more lengthy discussion in a more appropriate thread and when i'm not running to class), is that the current institutions and laws we have to allow LEGAL immigration should still be enforced and strengthened. They should be bolstered to include legislation that more aptly deals with residents in "limbo" (in between receiving citizinships) through improved methods of expediency, such as regional green cards that allow them to work and pay taxes in certain regions and vote in local municipalities without participating in state or federal processes. This would slowly help integrate the second generation of immigrants and make them AMERICAN -X citizens, rather than X- American (i.e., Colombian American, etc.). Illegal aliens should be dealt with in a far faster process, but again, only after these new, strengthened institutions have been implemented to allow for a fair, judicial process.

Immigration isn't the bane of America, we started with it. The clear violation of our sovereignty however, isn't acceptable, especially when we can work closely with the Mexican government to strengthen current institutions and regimes, as well as help stymie their violence problem and make mexico more attractive to its own residents again.

Cool story, bro.

However couple of points:

1. Don't make your comments lengthy. It is internet, attention span doesn't last past 10 sentences. Be brief, knowledgeable and wit. That's the key.

2. I was not interested in your opinion, I was responding to the point the poster made, that he doesn't want government to protect his economic activity in any way, shape or form. His hypocritical answer is what I was expecting, not thought out response of yours.

3. No offense.

Oh it's all good man, like I said i'm not really here to take sides just voice my opinions.

As for point one, lol, you don't gotta tell me, i'm used to the TL;DR of most forums, I just bother to write it out all here in the hopes that I can save just one frazzled mind.

 

[Kex]

The stock market represents Cronyism at its finest. Government is getting bigger and the Mega Corps that make up the major indices are lined up to get a cut of taxpayer money.

The truer metric of economic health is Unemployment, which is still dismal. Private sector jobs are continuing to disappear. That is the issue - and Obama's policies are worsening the problem.

Let me paraphrase your comment " I go by the statistic that makes the other side look worse".

Let me paraphrase for you: You feed on whatever pablum the leftwing media push.

What matters most to the majority of Americans? Jobs.

Go ahead, ask some people who are long term unemployed without the prospect of a job if they think the economy has recovered because the DOW is up.

Before you stuck your nose in it I was commenting on Rabbi's retarded post that economy was worst when Obama took office, when in fact since his inauguration the stock market improved significantly and unemployment peaked at 10.1 and started to drop recently.

When people say worst since Great Depression they mean stock markets first of all.

 

[Kex]

I can talk about that briefly too.

We have mechanisms in place that allow for LEGAL, fine immigration. I don't think these institutions are broken or anything like that, and they should be used. Illegal residents, on the other hand, bother me. In terms of economic terms, they actually ADD more to the economy than they take many studies have suggested, but that's not justifiable enough to violate the sovereignty and the rules of a foreign nation that already has lax rules to allow immigration.

I recognize life is difficult outside of the U.S. in many parts of South America. "No es facil" a girl once told me, but I'm no Wilsonian. We don't need to parada democratic ideals and fling open our borders to everyone, as it is a security dilemma that we are slowly starting to see play out.

My brief conclusion (again, I can go into a more lengthy discussion in a more appropriate thread and when i'm not running to class), is that the current institutions and laws we have to allow LEGAL immigration should still be enforced and strengthened. They should be bolstered to include legislation that more aptly deals with residents in "limbo" (in between receiving citizinships) through improved methods of expediency, such as regional green cards that allow them to work and pay taxes in certain regions and vote in local municipalities without participating in state or federal processes. This would slowly help integrate the second generation of immigrants and make them AMERICAN -X citizens, rather than X- American (i.e., Colombian American, etc.). Illegal aliens should be dealt with in a far faster process, but again, only after these new, strengthened institutions have been implemented to allow for a fair, judicial process.

Immigration isn't the bane of America, we started with it. The clear violation of our sovereignty however, isn't acceptable, especially when we can work closely with the Mexican government to strengthen current institutions and regimes, as well as help stymie their violence problem and make mexico more attractive to its own residents again.

Cool story, bro.

However couple of points:

1. Don't make your comments lengthy. It is internet, attention span doesn't last past 10 sentences. Be brief, knowledgeable and wit. That's the key.

2. I was not interested in your opinion, I was responding to the point the poster made, that he doesn't want government to protect his economic activity in any way, shape or form. His hypocritical answer is what I was expecting, not thought out response of yours.

3. No offense.

Oh it's all good man, like I said i'm not really here to take sides just voice my opinions.

As for point one, lol, you don't gotta tell me, i'm used to the TL;DR of most forums, I just bother to write it out all here in the hopes that I can save just one frazzled mind.

No one reads TL;DR posts, no idea what kind of forums you were posting on before, here one liners are the most effective. Okay, I am off, hope to see you soon.

 

[rightwinger]

[
You obviously ignored the unemployment figures, stock market prices, decline in GDP during the last six months of Bush. You also ignored the reversal of these numbers two months after Obama took office

No, I have not.

Private sector unemployment decreased (again) in March, which I have pointed out in a couple of other threads today.

The recession, which began in 2007, should have bottomed out by late 2008 - instead, the Obama policies have prolonged it. Increasing taxes and expanding government suppress private sector recovery, which is exactly what is happening today.

Thanks for making my point. The recession began in 2007 and was ignored by president Bush. He did not even acknowledge a recession existed until Nov 2008. Yes, if he had taken immediate action it would have bottomed out in 2008.


Obama did not take office until 2009

 

[Dr Gregg]

Cause they are idiots. THe general public are complete idiots that can't think rationally if they solely blame Obama who has done a lot to try and fix an economy that was aalready fucked before he took office. Anybody who blames him for this lacks any sort of critical thought, or are just to lazy to use their brains

 

[Annie]

Cause they are idiots. THe general public are complete idiots that can't think rationally if they solely blame Obama who has done a lot to try and fix an economy that was aalready fucked before he took office. Anybody who blames him for this lacks any sort of critical thought, or are just to lazy to use their brains

Such a well reasoned and deep reply.

 

[Claudette]

Its so simple folks.

If the economy and jobs are improved by Nov 2010 or 2012 The Prez will get the credit.

If they ain't.

Well he'll get the blame.

Thats politics.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Cause they are idiots. THe general public are complete idiots that can't think rationally if they solely blame Obama who has done a lot to try and fix an economy that was aalready fucked before he took office. Anybody who blames him for this lacks any sort of critical thought, or are just to lazy to use their brains

Such a well reasoned and deep reply.

and your response is so deep?
Yup, my response is as deep as the claims Obama is to blame for the economy without any reasoning other than he's in charge now and selective memory loss. Were people asleep duriing the campaigns where both candidates discussed the problems with the economy.

And also, do I really need to give lessons on the complexities of the economy? How there are a myriad of reasons why the economy is damaged, with many different people helping to lead to a poor economy. So those that want to blame Obama are indeed ignorant of economics. I don't profess to be an expert on economics but I know for sure its not as simple as blaming one person or one thing.