POLL: Is it time to separate?

[gipper]

We're pretty divided. Sure would be nice if our president stopped throwing gasoline.

Agreed. Trump lacks the leadership skills to get control of this situation. As you say, instead of reducing the pressure he’s inciting it.

However, maybe we as a nation have reached a tipping point unrelated to Trump. It could be all this diversity is harming us. We Americans have little in common and with the lack of leadership by the entire political class along with a media inflaming Americans, the time to separate may have arrived.

 

[Mac1958]

We're pretty divided. Sure would be nice if our president stopped throwing gasoline.

Yeah.

He's a symptom. A totem. I hope we learn something.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Yep. The U.S. government is too powerful and the two sides taking turn to lord it over each other has created too much bitterness. Let's be good neighbors instead of bad roommates.

The bitterness is the left keeps creating new lines to cross. Did you see what they just did in CA? They are reducing sentences for adults who have sex with children as long as they're within 10 years of each other. That means nothing really happens to a 20 year old who has sex with an 11 year old.

All you have to do is look around the country at these strong Democrat areas and take note of the things they do, then realize there is no middle ground with them.

Ok? So it sounds like a good idea to maybe not have any political affiliation with them.

How can you when their policies and politics is so opposite of ours?

At one time, it used to be said that the left and right both want what's best for the country, they just have different means on how to get there. I don't think we can say that any longer.

How can it be best for the country to support riots coast to coast destroying businesses and public property alike? How is it best for the country to defund police departments? How is it best for the country to eliminate ICE and allow poor third worlders to in invade our country? Don't we have enough of our own poor people to take care of? Now that we are not only energy independent, but a major exporter of energy, how is it best for the country to bring that to a halt?

I'm sorry, but I don't believe the left wants what's best for the country. I believe their concepts are what will destroy it, which is why I'm all for dividing our country so we can at least save half of it, instead of taking the risk of losing it entirely.

Again, sounds like a good reason to have nothing to do with them.

And the only way that's possible is to have two countries instead of one. Ignoring them is useless if they have the power over you and I to make policy against us like they did with Obama Care and other things.

At least two. Make it three, four, five. The smaller the better.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

 

[Norman]

We're pretty divided. Sure would be nice if our president stopped throwing gasoline.

Yeah.

He's a symptom. A totem. I hope we learn something.

Trump is adding gasoline as the democrats are encouraging people who literally throw gasoline in to actual fires their riots created.

Trump has done no such thing. All he has done is asserted that this is not a 3rd world nation, nor a socialist one. If you can't live with that then accept the division, as we will NEVER accept your world view, ever. It's in our DNA as Americans.

 

[gipper]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

You seem to be under the false belief that unions will result in products costing more, while Bezos and the other billionaires are raking in billions.

 

[Norman]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

You seem to be under the false belief that unions will result in products costing more, while Bezos and the other billionaires are raking in billions.

Depends which union. Private unions are fine, Bezo also has a monopoly... teacher's unions are dreadful and should be outlawed. Although I suppose with the education system, the whole thing is messed up from the bottom to the top.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

You seem to be under the false belief that unions will result in products costing more, while Bezos and the other billionaires are raking in billions.

Of course it will end up costing more, which is why those companies will invest in automation or getting out of town. Let's say we both own a company making Halloween decorations. Mine are made in China, and yours are made here with union labor. My witch decoration sells for ten dollars. Yours sells for $16.00 and they are on the shelf right next to each other. Which one do you think most people will buy?

Union shops are less productive as well because employees are protected from getting fired due to laziness or making errors. During the union days, if I made a pickup or delivery to a company I wasn't familiar with and knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not without asking one person.

The UAW was the worst. In fact, my employer had to refuse deliveries to the auto plants because he can't pay a driver a half a day to sit there and wait to get unloaded. It's a job that any non-union place can perform in a half-hour or so.

 

[gipper]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

You seem to be under the false belief that unions will result in products costing more, while Bezos and the other billionaires are raking in billions.

Of course it will end up costing more, which is why those companies will invest in automation or getting out of town. Let's say we both own a company making Halloween decorations. Mine are made in China, and yours are made here with union labor. My witch decoration sells for ten dollars. Yours sells for $16.00 and they are on the shelf right next to each other. Which one do you think most people will buy?

Union shops are less productive as well because employees are protected from getting fired due to laziness or making errors. During the union days, if I made a pickup or delivery to a company I wasn't familiar with and knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not without asking one person.

The UAW was the worst. In fact, my employer had to refuse deliveries to the auto plants because he can't pay a driver a half a day to sit there and wait to get unloaded. It's a job that any non-union place can perform in a half-hour or so.

No it won’t. It will cost Bezos and his senior executives more.

 

[justoffal]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

Self sufficiency is a goal that should never be de-emphasized. Granted we all reach an age where we must depend on others and there are some that can never be self sufficient but to make it the raison d'etre of an entire society? You have to be at least partially insane.

You think more unions means no one is self sufficient. What?

I am responding more to the second part of your post than the first one. I have belonged to a number of unions in the course of my employment career.....some good....some corrupt.....all in all they provide a living wage for their members more so than what would have bee offered. On the other hand if you become very proficient at a particular skill.....you are held back by a union. I have seen this also.

 

[justoffal]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

You seem to be under the false belief that unions will result in products costing more, while Bezos and the other billionaires are raking in billions.

Of course it will end up costing more, which is why those companies will invest in automation or getting out of town. Let's say we both own a company making Halloween decorations. Mine are made in China, and yours are made here with union labor. My witch decoration sells for ten dollars. Yours sells for $16.00 and they are on the shelf right next to each other. Which one do you think most people will buy?

Union shops are less productive as well because employees are protected from getting fired due to laziness or making errors. During the union days, if I made a pickup or delivery to a company I wasn't familiar with and knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not without asking one person.

The UAW was the worst. In fact, my employer had to refuse deliveries to the auto plants because he can't pay a driver a half a day to sit there and wait to get unloaded. It's a job that any non-union place can perform in a half-hour or so.

Union shops are HORRIFICALLY, STUPENDOUSLY AND HEINOUSLY inefficient.....it's to the point where its almost ridiculous....what am I talking about???? not almost....IT IS RIDICULOUS!! It wasn't always that way. At first Unions pushed their member's to be productive but once the malaise of the sixties hit that all went away to be replaced by amorphous existentialism in the workplace that encourages all to do as little as possible for as much pay as possible......horrifying. The unions are one of the reasons China ended up with so much of our manufacturing work.

JO

 

[gipper]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

Self sufficiency is a goal that should never be de-emphasized. Granted we all reach an age where we must depend on others and there are some that can never be self sufficient but to make it the raison d'etre of an entire society? You have to be at least partially insane.

You think more unions means no one is self sufficient. What?

I am responding more to the second part of your post than the first one. I have belonged to a number of unions in the course of my employment career.....some good....some corrupt.....all in all they provide a living wage for their members more so than what would have bee offered. On the other hand if you become very proficient at a particular skill.....you are held back by a union. I have seen this also.

People who are very proficient at a skill still need worker protections from the capitalists. Secondly, not everyone is proficient at a skill that is in demand and generating income. Do you want these people to starve?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

European style Unions, American style out of the question

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

You seem to be under the false belief that unions will result in products costing more, while Bezos and the other billionaires are raking in billions.

Of course it will end up costing more, which is why those companies will invest in automation or getting out of town. Let's say we both own a company making Halloween decorations. Mine are made in China, and yours are made here with union labor. My witch decoration sells for ten dollars. Yours sells for $16.00 and they are on the shelf right next to each other. Which one do you think most people will buy?

Union shops are less productive as well because employees are protected from getting fired due to laziness or making errors. During the union days, if I made a pickup or delivery to a company I wasn't familiar with and knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not without asking one person.

The UAW was the worst. In fact, my employer had to refuse deliveries to the auto plants because he can't pay a driver a half a day to sit there and wait to get unloaded. It's a job that any non-union place can perform in a half-hour or so.

Union shops are HORRIFICALLY, STUPENDOUSLY AND HEINOUSLY inefficient.....it's to the point where its almost ridiculous....what am I talking about???? not almost....IT IS RIDICULOUS!! It wasn't always that way. At first Unions pushed their member's to be productive but once the malaise of the sixties hit that all went away to be replaced by amorphous existentialism in the workplace that encourages all to do as little as possible for as much pay as possible......horrifying. The unions are one of the reasons China ended up with so much of our manufacturing work.

JO

The only problem with unions was they got too big and too strong. With some places, it was just about to the point the union ran the company. The told the company how much it will pay their workers, what kind of benefits they have to provide, who they can hire, who they can fire, and even who they can promote.

I could write a book on union stories, but one that comes to mind is when I went to a place for a pickup. I approached the dock worker to tell him I was there. In disgust, he threw a box on a pallet and said "you had to come now!"

While he was loading me, I asked what about the new helper that he got and why he didn't load the truck since he was so busy? He said his helper is scared of driving a tow motor. Confused, I asked why the company gave him that job if he couldn't do it? He replied the helper had seniority and the union said they had to give him the job since he put a bid in on it. Then I asked why he didn't approach his union and tell them the MF can't do the job?

He shut off his tow motor, made a long exhale in disgust and said "I could take this tow motor, drive it through the front of your trailer, and I'd still have a job tomorrow. But if I went to the union, told them that another union man was worthless, they'd toss my ass out in the street that minute." He then started the tow motor back up and finished loading me.

How can any business operate that way? Well they didn't, they had to close down.

 

[Indeependent]

No, and the question is asinine as you well know Mac.

Perhaps you should be complaining to the four people who have voted Yes so far, and the others who have said it but haven't voted.

This question didn't just come from my imagination. It came from observation.

You're Eleanor Rigby!

 

[Wyatt earp]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

You seem to be under the false belief that unions will result in products costing more, while Bezos and the other billionaires are raking in billions.

Of course it will end up costing more, which is why those companies will invest in automation or getting out of town. Let's say we both own a company making Halloween decorations. Mine are made in China, and yours are made here with union labor. My witch decoration sells for ten dollars. Yours sells for $16.00 and they are on the shelf right next to each other. Which one do you think most people will buy?

Union shops are less productive as well because employees are protected from getting fired due to laziness or making errors. During the union days, if I made a pickup or delivery to a company I wasn't familiar with and knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not without asking one person.

The UAW was the worst. In fact, my employer had to refuse deliveries to the auto plants because he can't pay a driver a half a day to sit there and wait to get unloaded. It's a job that any non-union place can perform in a half-hour or so.

No it won’t. It will cost Bezos and his senior executives more.

And there you have it, gipper lives in a fantasy world.

 

[gipper]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

You seem to be under the false belief that unions will result in products costing more, while Bezos and the other billionaires are raking in billions.

Of course it will end up costing more, which is why those companies will invest in automation or getting out of town. Let's say we both own a company making Halloween decorations. Mine are made in China, and yours are made here with union labor. My witch decoration sells for ten dollars. Yours sells for $16.00 and they are on the shelf right next to each other. Which one do you think most people will buy?

Union shops are less productive as well because employees are protected from getting fired due to laziness or making errors. During the union days, if I made a pickup or delivery to a company I wasn't familiar with and knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not without asking one person.

The UAW was the worst. In fact, my employer had to refuse deliveries to the auto plants because he can't pay a driver a half a day to sit there and wait to get unloaded. It's a job that any non-union place can perform in a half-hour or so.

No it won’t. It will cost Bezos and his senior executives more.

And there you have it, gipper lives in a fantasy world.

Why do you want Bezos to get all the wealth? Are you stupid ?

 

[gipper]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

You seem to be under the false belief that unions will result in products costing more, while Bezos and the other billionaires are raking in billions.

Of course it will end up costing more, which is why those companies will invest in automation or getting out of town. Let's say we both own a company making Halloween decorations. Mine are made in China, and yours are made here with union labor. My witch decoration sells for ten dollars. Yours sells for $16.00 and they are on the shelf right next to each other. Which one do you think most people will buy?

Union shops are less productive as well because employees are protected from getting fired due to laziness or making errors. During the union days, if I made a pickup or delivery to a company I wasn't familiar with and knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not without asking one person.

The UAW was the worst. In fact, my employer had to refuse deliveries to the auto plants because he can't pay a driver a half a day to sit there and wait to get unloaded. It's a job that any non-union place can perform in a half-hour or so.

Union shops are HORRIFICALLY, STUPENDOUSLY AND HEINOUSLY inefficient.....it's to the point where its almost ridiculous....what am I talking about???? not almost....IT IS RIDICULOUS!! It wasn't always that way. At first Unions pushed their member's to be productive but once the malaise of the sixties hit that all went away to be replaced by amorphous existentialism in the workplace that encourages all to do as little as possible for as much pay as possible......horrifying. The unions are one of the reasons China ended up with so much of our manufacturing work.

JO

The only problem with unions was they got too big and too strong. With some places, it was just about to the point the union ran the company. The told the company how much it will pay their workers, what kind of benefits they have to provide, who they can hire, who they can fire, and even who they can promote.

I could write a book on union stories, but one that comes to mind is when I went to a place for a pickup. I approached the dock worker to tell him I was there. In disgust, he threw a box on a pallet and said "you had to come now!"

While he was loading me, I asked what about the new helper that he got and why he didn't load the truck since he was so busy? He said his helper is scared of driving a tow motor. Confused, I asked why the company gave him that job if he couldn't do it? He replied the helper had seniority and the union said they had to give him the job since he put a bid in on it. Then I asked why he didn't approach his union and tell them the MF can't do the job?

He shut off his tow motor, made a long exhale in disgust and said "I could take this tow motor, drive it through the front of your trailer, and I'd still have a job tomorrow. But if I went to the union, told them that another union man was worthless, they'd toss my ass out in the street that minute." He then started the tow motor back up and finished loading me.

How can any business operate that way? Well they didn't, they had to close down.

Europe does fine and they have strong unions.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

You seem to be under the false belief that unions will result in products costing more, while Bezos and the other billionaires are raking in billions.

Of course it will end up costing more, which is why those companies will invest in automation or getting out of town. Let's say we both own a company making Halloween decorations. Mine are made in China, and yours are made here with union labor. My witch decoration sells for ten dollars. Yours sells for $16.00 and they are on the shelf right next to each other. Which one do you think most people will buy?

Union shops are less productive as well because employees are protected from getting fired due to laziness or making errors. During the union days, if I made a pickup or delivery to a company I wasn't familiar with and knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not without asking one person.

The UAW was the worst. In fact, my employer had to refuse deliveries to the auto plants because he can't pay a driver a half a day to sit there and wait to get unloaded. It's a job that any non-union place can perform in a half-hour or so.

No it won’t. It will cost Bezos and his senior executives more.

Well, not everybody is Bezos, and I'd say most are not. Most companies do well and the owner(s) make enough to have a good living as they should. Nobody opens up or maintains a business as a social obligation, they do so to make products or services at a profit.

The practice of only paying an employee what they'll work for is something you yourself do, so you can't say it's wrong to get the cheapest labor possible. They do it, you do it, I do it.

If a business owner(s) cannot create sufficient enough profit to make it worth keeping a business open, they get rid of it. They will never make less. When they get hit with taxes, they either increase the cost of their services, don't hand out raises, ask employees for larger contributions to their medical plan, but they are not going to make less money.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Straightforward question:

Have we reached a point at which our political differences are irreconcilable, and it's time to separate the country geographically in some way, by Left or Right?

And please expand on your response!

Political differences are as old as time itself. The differences are now between sound policy and the Archie Bunker type solutions on the right.

The “sound policies” of the Left are rooted in class envy. History has shown those policies are simply tools of the liberal elite to eliminate a middle class.

Labor unions essentially built the middle class by elevating the standard of living of hundreds of millions of workers and their families. The conservatives were (and still are) four square against them.

We need more and stronger unions, but they must steer clear of aligning with one of the criminal political parties and the mob.

Workers are essentially on their own in this failed state of ours.

Imagine if Amazon were unionized. That psychopath Bezos wouldn’t be a $150 billionaire. Thousands of Amazon workers would be well paid with good HC and pensions. Sharing the wealth is far better for workers, society, and the economy, rather than enriching only the people at the top.

We could have unions again, if you would buy their products. But the truth of the matter is, the US consumer will not support union workers. This is been a trend since the early 80's. It's why Walmart is the number one store today, and has been for some years now.

I don’t believe that. Why do you?

Because you see it every day. Americans have become cheap. We no longer care about quality, no longer care about where the product is made, all we care about is how cheap we can get it.

You can't make a lot of products here as cheap as you can overseas. We had one customer who made crates. Some of those crates were the size of my trailer (53') and they would use those crates to pack machines in to get out of the state or even out of the country.

In many of those cases, the company was moving because of the union. Speaking with the workers a couple of times, they were very pig headed. I asked if they requested their union give in a little; maybe enough for the company to stay so they could keep their job? They said no way. The union will just find us another job. Well, that didn't work out too well for them as it was the beginning of the collapse of the union days.

An even larger threat than companies moving overseas is automation. When it's cheaper to make the investment in robots and machines than it is to employ people to do the work, companies make those investments. Look at what's going on at your grocery store. Even the major fast food restaurants are making the change. Down the road, your entire Big Mac combo will be made by robots.

You seem to be under the false belief that unions will result in products costing more, while Bezos and the other billionaires are raking in billions.

Of course it will end up costing more, which is why those companies will invest in automation or getting out of town. Let's say we both own a company making Halloween decorations. Mine are made in China, and yours are made here with union labor. My witch decoration sells for ten dollars. Yours sells for $16.00 and they are on the shelf right next to each other. Which one do you think most people will buy?

Union shops are less productive as well because employees are protected from getting fired due to laziness or making errors. During the union days, if I made a pickup or delivery to a company I wasn't familiar with and knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not without asking one person.

The UAW was the worst. In fact, my employer had to refuse deliveries to the auto plants because he can't pay a driver a half a day to sit there and wait to get unloaded. It's a job that any non-union place can perform in a half-hour or so.

Union shops are HORRIFICALLY, STUPENDOUSLY AND HEINOUSLY inefficient.....it's to the point where its almost ridiculous....what am I talking about???? not almost....IT IS RIDICULOUS!! It wasn't always that way. At first Unions pushed their member's to be productive but once the malaise of the sixties hit that all went away to be replaced by amorphous existentialism in the workplace that encourages all to do as little as possible for as much pay as possible......horrifying. The unions are one of the reasons China ended up with so much of our manufacturing work.

JO

The only problem with unions was they got too big and too strong. With some places, it was just about to the point the union ran the company. The told the company how much it will pay their workers, what kind of benefits they have to provide, who they can hire, who they can fire, and even who they can promote.

I could write a book on union stories, but one that comes to mind is when I went to a place for a pickup. I approached the dock worker to tell him I was there. In disgust, he threw a box on a pallet and said "you had to come now!"

While he was loading me, I asked what about the new helper that he got and why he didn't load the truck since he was so busy? He said his helper is scared of driving a tow motor. Confused, I asked why the company gave him that job if he couldn't do it? He replied the helper had seniority and the union said they had to give him the job since he put a bid in on it. Then I asked why he didn't approach his union and tell them the MF can't do the job?

He shut off his tow motor, made a long exhale in disgust and said "I could take this tow motor, drive it through the front of your trailer, and I'd still have a job tomorrow. But if I went to the union, told them that another union man was worthless, they'd toss my ass out in the street that minute." He then started the tow motor back up and finished loading me.

How can any business operate that way? Well they didn't, they had to close down.

Europe does fine and they have strong unions.

But Europeans have more solidarity with their people than we do. They buy their own products. We don't. We buy the cheapest products we can get our hands on.

In fact when the Wuhan virus hit Italy so hard, it was because some companies in Italy used Chinese labor. They brought in Chinese people because Italian customers resist buying products not made in their country. Many of the Chinese workers came from Wuhan, and it created a terrible situation for them.