Poll: FDR # 1 President

[Sarah G]

Siena poll names FDR as America?s best president - The Record News: Serving Troy and its surrounding communities (Troyrecord.com)

Excerpts:
FDR leads the pack for the fifth time since the survey’s 1982 inception, followed in order by Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. That top five has remained consistent throughout each of the five times the study has been performed, with only minor shuffling among their rankings.

There was also little movement among the bottom five presidents, though George W. Bush joined their ranks at number 39, dropping from his initial 23 ranking in 2002’s poll. At number 43, Andrew Johnson has been named our worst president for the second time in a row, followed by James Buchanan, Warren G. Harding, Franklin Pierce and Bush.

Barack Obama entered the list at number 15,
Other recent presidents’ rankings include Bill Clinton at number 13, who moved up from the 18th slot in 2002, and George H.W. Bush holding steady at 22. Reagan dropped from 16 to 18.

Wow, I thought Reagan would be up there, maybe Palin is holding him down comparing herself to him all the time.

 

[Greenbeard]

Kennedy earnestly set out to tackle poverty, he said succinctly and directly this would be a hand UP not a hand OUT. A coven of academics, Michael Harrington ( The Other America ) for instance leading the way who found Johnson and his admin. agreeable to their views, changed the paradigm, that and a SC decision as it pertained to welfare distribution ( AFDC) in 68 and viola’, hand out and, it was on.

I often find that "War on Poverty" as it's used in these sorts of discussions is left as some sort of vague concept in the eye of the beholder when in fact it was a very specific bundle of eleven programs, laid out mostly in the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964. So instead of saying "Johnson changed the paradigm" and implying it was designed as a series of hand-outs, point out which of the programs you considered to be hand-outs instead of a hand up?

Here's the list:

• The Job Corps, which provides work, basic education, and training in separate residential centers for young men and young women, ages sixteen to twenty-one;
• Neighborhood Youth Corps, which provides work and training for young men and women, ages sixteen to twenty-one, from impoverished families and neighborhoods;
• Work Study, which provides grants to colleges and universities for part-time employment of students from low-income families who need to earn money to pursue their education;
• Urban and Rural Community Action, which provides financial and technical assistance to public and private nonprofit agencies for community action programs developed with "maximum feasible participation" of the poor and giving "promise of progress toward elimination of poverty"; [in here you eventually had Head Start, Upward Bound, Legal Services and Health Service Centers]
• Adult Basic Education, which provides grants to state educational agencies for programs of instruction for persons eighteen years and older whose inability to read and write English is an impediment to employment;
• Voluntary Assistance for Needy Children, which establishes an information and coordination center to encourage voluntary assistance for deserving and needy children;
• Loans to Rural Families, which provides loans not exceeding $2,500 that will assist low income rural families in permanently increasing their income;
• Assistance for Migrant Agricultural Employees, which provides assistance to state and local governments, public and private nonprofit agencies or individuals in operating programs to assist migratory workers and their families with housing, sanitation, education, and day care of children;
• Employment and Investment Incentives, which provides loans and guarantees, not in excess of $25,000 to a single borrower, for the benefit of very small businesses;
• Work Experience, which provides payments for experimental, pilot, and demonstration projects to expand opportunities for work experience and needed training of persons who are unable to support or care for themselves or their families, including persons receiving public assistance; and
• Volunteers in Service to America (VISTA), which recruits, selects, trains, and refers volunteers to state or local agencies or private nonprofit organizations to perform duties in combating poverty.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What's the Exit Strategy for the War on Poverty?

 

[Trajan]

Kennedy earnestly set out to tackle poverty, he said succinctly and directly this would be a hand UP not a hand OUT. A coven of academics, Michael Harrington ( The Other America ) for instance leading the way who found Johnson and his admin. agreeable to their views, changed the paradigm, that and a SC decision as it pertained to welfare distribution ( AFDC) in 68 and viola’, hand out and, it was on.

I often find that "War on Poverty" as it's used in these sorts of discussions is left as some sort of vague concept in the eye of the beholder when in fact it was a very specific bundle of eleven programs, laid out mostly in the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964. So instead of saying "Johnson changed the paradigm" and implying it was designed as a series of hand-outs, point out which of the programs you can considered to be hand-outs and instead of a hand up?

Here's the list:

• The Job Corps, which provides work, basic education, and training in separate residential centers for young men and young women, ages sixteen to twenty-one;
• Neighborhood Youth Corps, which provides work and training for young men and women, ages sixteen to twenty-one, from impoverished families and neighborhoods;
• Work Study, which provides grants to colleges and universities for part-time employment of students from low-income families who need to earn money to pursue their education;
• Urban and Rural Community Action, which provides financial and technical assistance to public and private nonprofit agencies for community action programs developed with "maximum feasible participation" of the poor and giving "promise of progress toward elimination of poverty"; [in here you eventually had Head Start, Upward Bound, Legal Services and Health Service Centers]
• Adult Basic Education, which provides grants to state educational agencies for programs of instruction for persons eighteen years and older whose inability to read and write English is an impediment to employment;
• Voluntary Assistance for Needy Children, which establishes an information and coordination center to encourage voluntary assistance for deserving and needy children;
• Loans to Rural Families, which provides loans not exceeding $2,500 that will assist low income rural families in permanently increasing their income;
• Assistance for Migrant Agricultural Employees, which provides assistance to state and local governments, public and private nonprofit agencies or individuals in operating programs to assist migratory workers and their families with housing, sanitation, education, and day care of children;
• Employment and Investment Incentives, which provides loans and guarantees, not in excess of $25,000 to a single borrower, for the benefit of very small businesses;
• Work Experience, which provides payments for experimental, pilot, and demonstration projects to expand opportunities for work experience and needed training of persons who are unable to support or care for themselves or their families, including persons receiving public assistance; and
• Volunteers in Service to America (VISTA), which recruits, selects, trains, and refers volunteers to state or local agencies or private nonprofit organizations to perform duties in combating poverty.

primarily afdc and its cousins. it was in my post.

a lot of those prgm.s you listed did help, but at the end of the day, the help was marginal comparatively.

Now, I am sure a someone who took advantage of job training and made a go of it would not think it was marginal and I am not marginalizing their motivations or attempt(s), yet one is faced with relative costs benefit. I do marginalize their( the gov.) philosophy, in that in their view(s) the system was 'rigged against them'.


The simple fact was and is; there will always be a sect , the bottom 10% who will need help. Its HOW you help that's key.

Throwing gobs of money at something may salve ones conscience but doesn't really settle the issue.

 

[Oddball]

Kennedy earnestly set out to tackle poverty, he said succinctly and directly this would be a hand UP not a hand OUT. A coven of academics, Michael Harrington ( The Other America ) for instance leading the way who found Johnson and his admin. agreeable to their views, changed the paradigm, that and a SC decision as it pertained to welfare distribution ( AFDC) in 68 and viola’, hand out and, it was on.

I often find that "War on Poverty" as it's used in these sorts of discussions is left as some sort of vague concept in the eye of the beholder when in fact it was a very specific bundle of eleven programs, laid out mostly in the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964. So instead of saying "Johnson changed the paradigm" and implying it was designed as a series of hand-outs, point out which of the programs you can considered to be hand-outs and instead of a hand up?

Here's the list:

• The Job Corps, which provides work, basic education, and training in separate residential centers for young men and young women, ages sixteen to twenty-one;
• Neighborhood Youth Corps, which provides work and training for young men and women, ages sixteen to twenty-one, from impoverished families and neighborhoods;
• Work Study, which provides grants to colleges and universities for part-time employment of students from low-income families who need to earn money to pursue their education;
• Urban and Rural Community Action, which provides financial and technical assistance to public and private nonprofit agencies for community action programs developed with "maximum feasible participation" of the poor and giving "promise of progress toward elimination of poverty"; [in here you eventually had Head Start, Upward Bound, Legal Services and Health Service Centers]
• Adult Basic Education, which provides grants to state educational agencies for programs of instruction for persons eighteen years and older whose inability to read and write English is an impediment to employment;
• Voluntary Assistance for Needy Children, which establishes an information and coordination center to encourage voluntary assistance for deserving and needy children;
• Loans to Rural Families, which provides loans not exceeding $2,500 that will assist low income rural families in permanently increasing their income;
• Assistance for Migrant Agricultural Employees, which provides assistance to state and local governments, public and private nonprofit agencies or individuals in operating programs to assist migratory workers and their families with housing, sanitation, education, and day care of children;
• Employment and Investment Incentives, which provides loans and guarantees, not in excess of $25,000 to a single borrower, for the benefit of very small businesses;
• Work Experience, which provides payments for experimental, pilot, and demonstration projects to expand opportunities for work experience and needed training of persons who are unable to support or care for themselves or their families, including persons receiving public assistance; and
• Volunteers in Service to America (VISTA), which recruits, selects, trains, and refers volunteers to state or local agencies or private nonprofit organizations to perform duties in combating poverty.

You have Cass Sunstein on speed dial, don't you?

Ironic part of the idiotic "War on Poverty" is that if the programs actually worked to eradicate poverty, we would no longer need them.

 

[Bfgrn]

Why don't you start a fresh 1-on-1 thread?

Let's pick a referee and rules of engagement, if you thought that you're such the stuff.

C'mon.....Bring it.

I offered and already you are whinging? Take the rest of the evening to prepare a rebuttal to the findings of Gerald R. Ford School. I can be available after sunday school and church tomorrow. Look forward to it.

I hope you bought stock in that stupid report validating LBJ as one of your heroes because here comes the short sale

I knew there was something wrong with the report just by reading the timeline they picked and whattyaknow...

Poverty was PLUMMETING prior to the Great Society. LBJ and The Dems arrested the fall in poverty and stabilized a large base of poor people who now needed the government to be their provider.

WOW Frank, talk about obfuscation on your part, but that IS you...

The chart begins in 1959, near the very end of the 8 years of the Eisenhower administration. Poverty was high. Eisenhower was a lame duck president in '59, so it doesn't make ANY sense that he started many new initiatives.

JFK and LBJ were in office through almost all of the chart's precipitous decline...

AND, what makes your point mute; Eisenhower and the GOP were SO FAR to the left of today's GOP authoritarian despots that they may have been farther to the left than today's Democratic Party!


"In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[my2¢]

I went to article to see where my least favorite stood. Was delighted to see he is right where I would have put him.

Bottom rated: Lyndon B. Johnson

 

[Greenbeard]

primarily afdc and its cousins. it was in my post.

AFDC wasn't a creation of the War on Poverty, nor did it play much of a role in Shriver's strategies in the Office of Economic Opportunity. So it makes no sense to criticize Johnson's War on Poverty as a bunch of hand-outs when in fact it was a series of education, job-training, and micro-lending initiatives aimed squarely at increasing labor force participation among the poor.

The simple fact was and is; there will always be a sect , the bottom 10% who will need help. Its HOW you help that's key.

And what philosophical fault do you find in the War on Poverty's approach (which, again, was based squarely on 1) education, 2) job-training, and 3) micro-lending )?

 

[Bfgrn]

The New Deal was an Epic Fail. Thanks for admitting it

Far from a fail....

The New Deal and great Society movement turned the US from an uncaring megasociety into a modern society. All great societies care for the less fortunate. Every modern society on earth has a mechanism to provide for its citizens....ALL of its citizens

From each according to their means, to each according to their needs.

The New Deal was an Epic Failure, you've unwittingly admitted yourself multiple times now which also puts you in the category of less academically and intellectually fortunate.

Progressives need to lie 24/7 because Socialism is an Epic Fail everywhere and every time its tried.

The Depression of 20/21 is a far better example but it's not taught in schools. Instead we get the Imaginary "Greatness" of FDR, a man who turned an economic downturn into the worse economy since Barbarians sacked Rome.

Neither your Communist leaning nor your Stockholm Syndrome impresses me; as an effective pro-American President FDR was as large a failure as Obama. But as a Progressive who was going to bring Soviet style Central Planning to the USA, he is a hero!

So you need to totally redefine greatness and success to make FDR great.

I stopped buying that a long time ago.

Hey Frank, maybe you should spend the weekend picking spaghetti from pasta trees...

The Depression of 1920–21 was an extremely sharp deflationary recession in the United States, shortly after the end of World War I. It lasted from January 1920 to July 1921. The extent of the deflation was not only large, but large relative to the accompanying decline in real product.

A range of factors have been identified contributing to the depression, many relating to adjustments in the economy following the end of World War I. There was a brief Post-World War I recession immediately following the end of the war which lasted for 7 months. The economy started to grow, though it had not yet completed all the adjustments in shifting from a wartime to a peacetime economy. Factors identified as potentially contributing to the downturn include: returning troops which created a surge in the civilian labor force, a decline in labor union strife, changes in fiscal and monetary policy, and changes in price expectations.
wiki

1957: Spaghetti fools

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdQqh9jvB6w]YouTube - Growing Spaghetti[/ame]

 

[Trajan]

WOW Frank, talk about obfuscation on your part, but that IS you...

The chart begins in 1959, near the very end of the 8 years of the Eisenhower administration. Poverty was high. Eisenhower was a lame duck president in '59, so it doesn't make ANY sense that he started many new initiatives.

JFK and LBJ were in office through almost all of the chart's precipitous decline...

AND, what makes your point mute; Eisenhower and the GOP were SO FAR to the left of today's GOP authoritarian despots that they may have been farther to the left than today's Democratic Party!

That’s why a determination of what poverty was relative to were we were before WW2 requires scrutiny. Believe it or not ‘poverty’ that is the discussion of such and gov. machinations along these lines didn’t mainstream until the latter half of the 50’s led by academics, and good for them.

The gear that we shifted post ww2 bestowed a rise in affluence that blanked out poverty per se’ as to even recognizing it. We just didn’t think about out.

 

[The T]

Kennedy earnestly set out to tackle poverty, he said succinctly and directly this would be a hand UP not a hand OUT. A coven of academics, Michael Harrington ( The Other America ) for instance leading the way who found Johnson and his admin. agreeable to their views, changed the paradigm, that and a SC decision as it pertained to welfare distribution ( AFDC) in 68 and viola’, hand out and, it was on.

I often find that "War on Poverty" as it's used in these sorts of discussions is left as some sort of vague concept in the eye of the beholder when in fact it was a very specific bundle of eleven programs, laid out mostly in the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964. So instead of saying "Johnson changed the paradigm" and implying it was designed as a series of hand-outs, point out which of the programs you can considered to be hand-outs and instead of a hand up?



Here's the list:

• The Job Corps, which provides work, basic education, and training in separate residential centers for young men and young women, ages sixteen to twenty-one;
• Neighborhood Youth Corps, which provides work and training for young men and women, ages sixteen to twenty-one, from impoverished families and neighborhoods;
• Work Study, which provides grants to colleges and universities for part-time employment of students from low-income families who need to earn money to pursue their education;
• Urban and Rural Community Action, which provides financial and technical assistance to public and private nonprofit agencies for community action programs developed with "maximum feasible participation" of the poor and giving "promise of progress toward elimination of poverty"; [in here you eventually had Head Start, Upward Bound, Legal Services and Health Service Centers]
• Adult Basic Education, which provides grants to state educational agencies for programs of instruction for persons eighteen years and older whose inability to read and write English is an impediment to employment;
• Voluntary Assistance for Needy Children, which establishes an information and coordination center to encourage voluntary assistance for deserving and needy children;
• Loans to Rural Families, which provides loans not exceeding $2,500 that will assist low income rural families in permanently increasing their income;
• Assistance for Migrant Agricultural Employees, which provides assistance to state and local governments, public and private nonprofit agencies or individuals in operating programs to assist migratory workers and their families with housing, sanitation, education, and day care of children;
• Employment and Investment Incentives, which provides loans and guarantees, not in excess of $25,000 to a single borrower, for the benefit of very small businesses;
• Work Experience, which provides payments for experimental, pilot, and demonstration projects to expand opportunities for work experience and needed training of persons who are unable to support or care for themselves or their families, including persons receiving public assistance; and
• Volunteers in Service to America (VISTA), which recruits, selects, trains, and refers volunteers to state or local agencies or private nonprofit organizations to perform duties in combating poverty.

You have Cass Sunstein on speed dial, don't you?

Ironic part of the idiotic "War on Poverty" is that if the programs actually worked to eradicate poverty, we would no longer need them.

But yet we hear the same cries now as then. And how many billions have been poured into the failing 'Great Society' (Which was for intents and purposes a carry over from FDR, and later Truman after the passing of FDR)?

Poverty will never be erraticated until people pull themselves out of it by making the right choices for themselves and without government interference.

For now? The Government perpetuates it by stomping true independence by creating dependence, at the expense of those of us that have made the correct choices in spite of government intrusion on Liberty of the individual and their undeclared war on the individual.

And all for the sake of their power lust over the people.

It has to cease.

 

[Trajan]

primarily afdc and its cousins. it was in my post.

AFDC wasn't a creation of the War on Poverty, nor did it play much of a role in Shriver's strategies in the Office of Economic Opportunity. So it makes no sense to criticize Johnson's War on Poverty as a bunch of hand-outs when in fact it was a series of education, job-training, and micro-lending initiatives aimed squarely at increasing labor force participation among the poor.

The simple fact was and is; there will always be a sect , the bottom 10% who will need help. Its HOW you help that's key.

And what philosophical fault do you find in the War on Poverty's approach (which, again, was based squarely on 1) education, 2) job-training, and 3) micro-lending )?

I never said it was, it was however greatly enhanced ( mangled) in line with what the war on poverty saw as their/its goal, well, the corrupted goal. What the war on poverty in your terms provided the afdc took away so to speak.

Who said I found philosophical fault with those prgms.? The fault lies in realizing that they decided to push one way and pulled in the other.

And note*granted social circumstances ala the civil rights issue etc. helped,that is a social status change that in conjunction with a huge increase in AFDC ala payment allowances structure and rules, as I said actually worked against the very thing they were attempting, in the end they took a scatter gun approach and for all of the job trng. and education was marginal.

You are aware that for all of the job trng. and education funding and prgm.s provided, black labor participation for their most important demographic, 18-24 went down as the decade progressed...right? There was progress, later in the 70's the number of blacks LPR rose amongst 35-50 sect. but comparatively it was as I alluded, marginal.

 

[Bfgrn]

I often find that "War on Poverty" as it's used in these sorts of discussions is left as some sort of vague concept in the eye of the beholder when in fact it was a very specific bundle of eleven programs, laid out mostly in the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964. So instead of saying "Johnson changed the paradigm" and implying it was designed as a series of hand-outs, point out which of the programs you can considered to be hand-outs and instead of a hand up?



Here's the list:

• The Job Corps, which provides work, basic education, and training in separate residential centers for young men and young women, ages sixteen to twenty-one;
• Neighborhood Youth Corps, which provides work and training for young men and women, ages sixteen to twenty-one, from impoverished families and neighborhoods;
• Work Study, which provides grants to colleges and universities for part-time employment of students from low-income families who need to earn money to pursue their education;
• Urban and Rural Community Action, which provides financial and technical assistance to public and private nonprofit agencies for community action programs developed with "maximum feasible participation" of the poor and giving "promise of progress toward elimination of poverty"; [in here you eventually had Head Start, Upward Bound, Legal Services and Health Service Centers]
• Adult Basic Education, which provides grants to state educational agencies for programs of instruction for persons eighteen years and older whose inability to read and write English is an impediment to employment;
• Voluntary Assistance for Needy Children, which establishes an information and coordination center to encourage voluntary assistance for deserving and needy children;
• Loans to Rural Families, which provides loans not exceeding $2,500 that will assist low income rural families in permanently increasing their income;
• Assistance for Migrant Agricultural Employees, which provides assistance to state and local governments, public and private nonprofit agencies or individuals in operating programs to assist migratory workers and their families with housing, sanitation, education, and day care of children;
• Employment and Investment Incentives, which provides loans and guarantees, not in excess of $25,000 to a single borrower, for the benefit of very small businesses;
• Work Experience, which provides payments for experimental, pilot, and demonstration projects to expand opportunities for work experience and needed training of persons who are unable to support or care for themselves or their families, including persons receiving public assistance; and
• Volunteers in Service to America (VISTA), which recruits, selects, trains, and refers volunteers to state or local agencies or private nonprofit organizations to perform duties in combating poverty.

You have Cass Sunstein on speed dial, don't you?

Ironic part of the idiotic "War on Poverty" is that if the programs actually worked to eradicate poverty, we would no longer need them.

But yet we hear the same cries now as then. And how many billions have been poured into the failing 'Great Society' (Which was for intents and purposes a carry over from FDR, and later Truman after the passing of FDR)?

Poverty will never be erraticated until people pull themselves out of it by making the right choices for themselves and without government interference.

For now? The Government perpetuates it by stomping true independence by creating dependence, at the expense of those of us that have made the correct choices in spite of government intrusion on Liberty of the individual and their undeclared war on the individual.

And all for the sake of their power lust over the people.

It has to cease.

Thank you Darwin, for repackaging and modernizing Adolf's Final Solution...

Please read this famous quote and tell me what the KEY phrase is...


"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

 

[Greenbeard]

You are aware that for all of the job trng. and education funding and prgm.s provided, black labor participation for their most important demographic, 18-24 went down as the decade progressed...right? There was progress, later in the 70's the number of blacks LPR rose amongst 35-50 sect. but comparatively it was as I alluded, marginal.

Do you have a source? I'd like to see how the numbers compare to today, the age of the TANF and the EITC.

That said, obviously those job training and education initiatives didn't eradicate poverty. They were partially successful at--as the names of the legislation spawning the War on Poverty and the agency it created suggested--creating economic opportunity, which is what education and skills training do; I say partially because this was at the time a very novel experiment, the first major coordinated anti-poverty initiative aimed at reducing poverty through means other than a simple transfer payment, and it ran into significant implementation hurdles (I did a decent amount of work on this and poverty-related policy in my undergrad years).

But the notion that those kind of efforts can eradicate poverty is based on a theory of poverty that's less structural and more personal (even if the personal attributes in question--like poor education--have structural roots). But you can look at all kinds of work (e.g. Piore's dual labor markets) that show poverty to be more a feature of our society and less a feature of those within that society. That's a bit more of a musical chairs conception of poverty--you can better equip individuals to get a chair when the music stops (i.e. escape poverty) but ultimately someone's going to be left standing. So once you've taken the preliminary efforts to make sure all the chairs are filled when the music stops (which is what I'd argue the War on Poverty was ultimately trying to accomplish, with a fair amount of success), you have to turn to broader structural issues if you want to make any more headway--you have to find ways to bring more chairs into the game. But that's not what the War on Poverty was trying to do, that's not what it was intended to do, and so to evaluate on the basis of a goal it wasn't actually trying to accomplish (even if the rhetoric would've suggested that they should've been pursuing that goal) just doesn't make sense.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I offered and already you are whinging? Take the rest of the evening to prepare a rebuttal to the findings of Gerald R. Ford School. I can be available after sunday school and church tomorrow. Look forward to it.

I hope you bought stock in that stupid report validating LBJ as one of your heroes because here comes the short sale

I knew there was something wrong with the report just by reading the timeline they picked and whattyaknow...

Poverty was PLUMMETING prior to the Great Society. LBJ and The Dems arrested the fall in poverty and stabilized a large base of poor people who now needed the government to be their provider.

WOW Frank, talk about obfuscation on your part, but that IS you...

The chart begins in 1959, near the very end of the 8 years of the Eisenhower administration. Poverty was high. Eisenhower was a lame duck president in '59, so it doesn't make ANY sense that he started many new initiatives.

JFK and LBJ were in office through almost all of the chart's precipitous decline...

AND, what makes your point mute; Eisenhower and the GOP were SO FAR to the left of today's GOP authoritarian despots that they may have been farther to the left than today's Democratic Party!


"In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

You're funny. How do you explain the plummeting poverty rates from 59 to 64?

You have a Gubbamint Centric World view and EVERYTHING that happens must be the result of some Gubbamint action. I have a hard time talking to you because unless I start a sentence with "Government Rules!" you're not going to hear it. Oh well here goes.

Neither Ike nor JFK had some super secret poverty eliminating Gubbamint programs in place that cause the sharp decline in poverty: no Great Society or New Deal plans. Just tax cuts and US capitalism and entrepreneurship

After he whacked Kennedy, LBJ decided that he had to stop the decline in poverty! How could you have a Democrat Party without have wards of the State?

So, in order to arrest the decline and cement a permanent underclass, LBJ and his super Congressional majority initiated their Great Society Filled with Wards of the State.

 

[The T]

You have Cass Sunstein on speed dial, don't you?

Ironic part of the idiotic "War on Poverty" is that if the programs actually worked to eradicate poverty, we would no longer need them.

But yet we hear the same cries now as then. And how many billions have been poured into the failing 'Great Society' (Which was for intents and purposes a carry over from FDR, and later Truman after the passing of FDR)?

Poverty will never be erraticated until people pull themselves out of it by making the right choices for themselves and without government interference.

For now? The Government perpetuates it by stomping true independence by creating dependence, at the expense of those of us that have made the correct choices in spite of government intrusion on Liberty of the individual and their undeclared war on the individual.

And all for the sake of their power lust over the people.

It has to cease.

Thank you Darwin, for repackaging and modernizing Adolf's Final Solution...

Please read this famous quote and tell me what the KEY phrase is...


"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

He was speaking of Charity...and not of one devised by Government. It's part of the glue (until now) that has held this Republic together.

And as to your 'Adolph' reference? Typical Statist horseshit. (You may ram that comment right up your poopchute from whence it came). I was nowhere advocating such and you know it.

YOU missed my entire point, and that is one of individual responsibility that comes with cititizenship and the practice of liberty therein. And that is not to infringe on the Liberties of others which the Government does by decree, fiat, and by force.

You may subscribe to the undeclared WAR on the individual that this Statist Government has started...but the majority of us don't and as a matter of fact? WE RESENT IT. And why movements as the TEA Party spring up which you decry and impugne.

November can't come too quickly.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Far from a fail....

The New Deal and great Society movement turned the US from an uncaring megasociety into a modern society. All great societies care for the less fortunate. Every modern society on earth has a mechanism to provide for its citizens....ALL of its citizens

From each according to their means, to each according to their needs.

The New Deal was an Epic Failure, you've unwittingly admitted yourself multiple times now which also puts you in the category of less academically and intellectually fortunate.

Progressives need to lie 24/7 because Socialism is an Epic Fail everywhere and every time its tried.

The Depression of 20/21 is a far better example but it's not taught in schools. Instead we get the Imaginary "Greatness" of FDR, a man who turned an economic downturn into the worse economy since Barbarians sacked Rome.

Neither your Communist leaning nor your Stockholm Syndrome impresses me; as an effective pro-American President FDR was as large a failure as Obama. But as a Progressive who was going to bring Soviet style Central Planning to the USA, he is a hero!

So you need to totally redefine greatness and success to make FDR great.

I stopped buying that a long time ago.

Hey Frank, maybe you should spend the weekend picking spaghetti from pasta trees...

The Depression of 1920–21 was an extremely sharp deflationary recession in the United States, shortly after the end of World War I. It lasted from January 1920 to July 1921. The extent of the deflation was not only large, but large relative to the accompanying decline in real product.

A range of factors have been identified contributing to the depression, many relating to adjustments in the economy following the end of World War I. There was a brief Post-World War I recession immediately following the end of the war which lasted for 7 months. The economy started to grow, though it had not yet completed all the adjustments in shifting from a wartime to a peacetime economy. Factors identified as potentially contributing to the downturn include: returning troops which created a surge in the civilian labor force, a decline in labor union strife, changes in fiscal and monetary policy, and changes in price expectations.
wiki

1957: Spaghetti fools

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdQqh9jvB6w]YouTube - Growing Spaghetti[/ame]

Spaghetti Tree. That's funny stuff. I have a Family crest and can trace my ancestors back to the 12th Century. I just found out I had a relative who was a lawyer and active in the Medici section of Florence in the mid 15th Century.

Read this so you don't remain so totally ignorant, or don't.

The Forgotten Depression of 1920 - Thomas E. Woods, Jr. - Mises Daily

So, you still can't figure out how it is poverty rates plummeted until LBJ and the Dems decided they needed a permanent underclass, right?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Kennedy earnestly set out to tackle poverty, he said succinctly and directly this would be a hand UP not a hand OUT. A coven of academics, Michael Harrington ( The Other America ) for instance leading the way who found Johnson and his admin. agreeable to their views, changed the paradigm, that and a SC decision as it pertained to welfare distribution ( AFDC) in 68 and viola’, hand out and, it was on.

I often find that "War on Poverty" as it's used in these sorts of discussions is left as some sort of vague concept in the eye of the beholder when in fact it was a very specific bundle of eleven programs, laid out mostly in the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964. So instead of saying "Johnson changed the paradigm" and implying it was designed as a series of hand-outs, point out which of the programs you considered to be hand-outs instead of a hand up?

Here's the list:

• The Job Corps, which provides work, basic education, and training in separate residential centers for young men and young women, ages sixteen to twenty-one;
• Neighborhood Youth Corps, which provides work and training for young men and women, ages sixteen to twenty-one, from impoverished families and neighborhoods;
• Work Study, which provides grants to colleges and universities for part-time employment of students from low-income families who need to earn money to pursue their education;
• Urban and Rural Community Action, which provides financial and technical assistance to public and private nonprofit agencies for community action programs developed with "maximum feasible participation" of the poor and giving "promise of progress toward elimination of poverty"; [in here you eventually had Head Start, Upward Bound, Legal Services and Health Service Centers]
• Adult Basic Education, which provides grants to state educational agencies for programs of instruction for persons eighteen years and older whose inability to read and write English is an impediment to employment;
• Voluntary Assistance for Needy Children, which establishes an information and coordination center to encourage voluntary assistance for deserving and needy children;
• Loans to Rural Families, which provides loans not exceeding $2,500 that will assist low income rural families in permanently increasing their income;
• Assistance for Migrant Agricultural Employees, which provides assistance to state and local governments, public and private nonprofit agencies or individuals in operating programs to assist migratory workers and their families with housing, sanitation, education, and day care of children;
• Employment and Investment Incentives, which provides loans and guarantees, not in excess of $25,000 to a single borrower, for the benefit of very small businesses;
• Work Experience, which provides payments for experimental, pilot, and demonstration projects to expand opportunities for work experience and needed training of persons who are unable to support or care for themselves or their families, including persons receiving public assistance; and
• Volunteers in Service to America (VISTA), which recruits, selects, trains, and refers volunteers to state or local agencies or private nonprofit organizations to perform duties in combating poverty.

The real question is: Why start a war doomed to failure against an enemy that was already surrendering?

Did you see the chart? Did you see where poverty was heading thanks to spending discipline and tax cuts?

Did you see what happened after LBJ's Central Planning went into effect?

 

[Oddball]

Give him a half an hour or so, the DNC talking point generation boiler room is short staffed for the holiday.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Give him a half an hour or so, the DNC talking point generation boiler room is short staffed for the holiday.

And then Old Rocks stops by to say that the chart proves ManMade Global Warming is for real