Zone1 Poll: Although the Tuskegee Airmen Accomplished What They Did BEFORE the Advent of DEI, Do you Consider Them Recipients of DEI?

[IM2]

Constantly talking about "Black Issues" infers that there is something wrong with them ( as if they are inferior). You never hear liberals pumping up Asians or Hispanic accomplishments, ITS ONLY THEIR VOTING BASE ( BLACKS) that liberals constantly push in the media. This causes resentment with other minorities and only increases the problem. Morgan Freeman told Don Lemon, if you want to cure racism,,,STOP TALKING ABOUT IT and the people will forget about it and start treating people with their due respect ( some of them do not deserve respect ).

Democrats have weaponized and radicalized many blacks with the intent of keeping them in the democrat party. But 70 years of race pandering by elite white liberals has not helped the black condition, they are still impoverished and saddled with rampant crime; their misery benefits the Democrat party.

I suspect the liberals are using the Tuskegee group to virtue signal; Oh see how nice I am talking about a black flying group so pat me on the back and make me "feel Good" . If a Tuskegee airman moved next to a white privileged liberal, most of the liberals would sell their home the next day ASAP; I have seen this more than once. Look at how they went crazy when a handful of illegals landed in Martha's Vineyard.

Our past mayor here in Detroit was Coleman Young, a Tuskegee airman and he was an openly white hating racist that ran the city for 20 years. This is easily verified online

4 paragraphs of pure racist garbage. Taling about issues specific to blacks doesn't mean anything is wrong unless you are a racist and assume black inferiority. Democrats haven't radicalized a damn thing. Republicans have shown they don't want blacks in the party because of opinions coming from Republicans like you.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

As I understand it, Elenore lobbied FDR to allow Blacks into combat. Before that they served only as cooks, truck drivers, etc. So her DEI was a direct attack on the existing racism in the military. Good thing too since the Tuskegee airmen had the best record of any air unit in protecting US bombers over Germany.

So do you consider that DEI? And was it a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The Tuskegee Airmen were the opposite of DEI recipients. They had to fight for everything they received and, like all other black servicemen, had to be far better than the white enlisted/officers they competed with. They are a perfect example of why blacks don't need preferential treatment, like most people they will rise above adversity and achieve greatness.

So in your opinion, it's okay, no scratch that, it's better to have to fight every day of one's life to try to obtain the same level of rights as others solely, because of people who are racist who will do everything in there power to keep you from advancing? Or prospering? Or simply being unbothered?

That's an interesting perspective considering that they had to fight a court battle just to be allowed to train and put their lives on the line in defense of the U.S. and our allies abroad.

But that court battle they fought, they fought it so that they could be 'included'. That's the 'I' in DEI, 'inclusion'.

And this is one of things you all are fighting tooth and nail against.

 

[BothWings]

The Tuskegee Airmen were victims of simple, blatant old-fashioned segregation, not DEI. They weren't hired because they were black. They were hired because we needed all the help we could get. They were segregated to prevent distractions of bigotry from hindering the war effort. I can't believe this needs explaining.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The Tuskegee Airmen were real men; DEI is a fucking insult to them

Why do you think they fought a battle in court in order to be "included (the I in DEI) in the Allied war effort?

 

[AZrailwhale]

So in your opinion, it's okay, no scratch that, it's better to have to fight every day of one's life to try to obtain the same level of rights as others solely, because of people who are racist who will do everything in there power to keep you from advancing? Or prospering? Or simply being unbothered?

That's an interesting perspective considering that they had to fight a court battle just to be allowed to train and put their lives on the line in defense of the U.S. and our allies abroad.

But that court battle they fought, they fought it so that they could be 'included'. That's the 'I' in DEI, 'inclusion'.

And this is one of things you all are fighting tooth and nail against.

Everybody has to fight every day to achieve. The attitudes that affected the airmen don’t exist anymore. Other than black people, anyone advocating for segregation is shunned at best, assaulted at worst. I admire the members of the Tuskegee Airmen and their accomplishments, each and every one of them was an extraordinary individual.

 

[westwall]

So my observations indicate that the three innocuous letters - Delta, Echo and India ('DEI') invoke negative reactions from a subclass of white Americans, and at times, some others. They react to any encounter of this acronym much in the same way that they do to the acronym of BLM which unequivocally declares "Black Lives Matter!". Their reactions though are nothing more than conditioning, much like the conditioning of Pavlov's dogs.

So my question to you all is, despite DEI not having existed at the time of the Tuskegee Airman "experiment" (experiment because they were expected to fail, based on the assessment of various "studies" made during WWI & WWII), do you
1. considered them being allowed to learn to fly and "included" in the Allied war effort to be the "I" in DEI? Is this a good or bad thing from your perspective?
2. because their inclusion "diversified" the military although they were physically segregated, do you considered their inclusion as having diversified the military? Again, a
good or bad occurence?
3. So we already know that despite their stellar performance they still were not treated equitable with the other service men so we know this third prong was not met. Do you think that they should have been treated equitably? Why or why not?

Please provide support or at least your reasoning for your response:

"The Negro is an inherently inferior individual… emotionally unstable, lacks initiative, and is abjectly afraid of the dark. He cannot be trained
to fly military aircraft.”
- internal U.S. Army Air Corps and War Department memoranda

View attachment 1092956

​

Pavlov’s Dogs – Classical Conditioning​

Ivan Pavlov, a Russian physiologist, was studying digestion in dogs when he made an unexpected discovery:​

• He noticed that dogs would start salivating not just when food was placed in their mouths, but even before—like when they saw the lab assistant or heard footsteps.

So he ran an experiment:​

1. Before conditioning:
   • Food = salivation (natural response)
   • Bell = no response
2. During conditioning:
   • Pavlov rang a bell, then immediately gave food
   • Repeated this pairing several times
3. After conditioning:
   • Just the sound of the bell caused the dogs to salivate—even with no food

What It Means:​

Pavlov discovered classical conditioning—where a neutral stimulus (the bell) becomes associated with an involuntary response (salivation) because it was repeatedly paired with a meaningful stimulus (food).​

​

It laid the foundation for modern behavioral psychology and how humans and animals learn from associations.​

The Tuskeegee airmen, of which I have known quite a few, were extraordinary men. They succeeded in spite of the rampant racism that existed.

They WERE recipients of institutional racism, and they still rose above.

Why?

Because they were exceptional. They refused to accept no. They refused to accept mediocrity.

THEY changed the racist beliefs of the military.

 

[alang1216]

So do you consider that DEI? And was it a good thing or a bad thing?

I do consider it DEI but that is not a dirty word to me. I see it as a counter balance to a society with a very long legacy of racism. If there were no racism, there would be no need for DEI.

 

[IM2]

The Tuskegee Airmen were victims of simple, blatant old-fashioned segregation, not DEI. They weren't hired because they were black. They were hired because we needed all the help we could get. They were segregated to prevent distractions of bigotry from hindering the war effort. I can't believe this needs explaining.

The Tuskegee Airmen were initially excluded because they were black. They were segregated because of white racism. Your explanation is a load of dumb white racist dukey. We don't need explanations from you white man. YOU need to listen and learn. In fact, white racism resulted in the deaths of several of these Airmen when they returned home. They were forced to try landing at the black Airport during a storm because the white airports that weren't in the storm didn't allow blacks there. So spare us your whitesplaining.

 

[BackAgain]

No.

 

[BothWings]

The Tuskegee Airmen were initially excluded because they were black. They were segregated because of white racism. Your explanation is a load of dumb white racist dukey. We don't need explanations from you white man. YOU need to listen and learn. In fact, white racism resulted in the deaths of several of these irmen when they returned home. They were forced to try landing at the black Airport during a storm because the white airports that weren't in the storm didn't allow blacks there. So spare us your whitesplaining.

I JUST SAID they were segregated, you psychotic racist loon. Learn to read. That was at the beginning of what I wrote.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why do you think they fought a battle in court in order to be "included (the I in DEI) in the Allied war effort?

Because Woodrow Wilson and FDR were racists democrats

 

[IM2]

I JUST SAID they were segregated, you psychotic racist loon. Learn to read. That was at the beginning of what I wrote.

I read very well. Look white racist trash, you said they were segregated to prevent bigotry from hindering the war effort when in fact, they were segregated because they were black. Black soldiers had been segregated long before there was a war, they were segregated in the Civil War, and they were segregated in WW1. Your comment was the same racist excuse used to justify the segregation and it was inaccurate.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The Tuskegee Airmen were victims of simple, blatant old-fashioned segregation, not DEI.

You mean racism. Racism is the condition, racial segregation is the effect of racism.

They were segregated to prevent distractions of bigotry from hindering the war effort. I can't believe this needs explaining.

They were segregated because of white racism.

They were segregated to prevent distractions of bigotry from hindering the war effort. I can't believe this needs explaining.

But you're not explaining anything.

In 1941, Yancey Williams, a Howard University student and licensed pilot, applied to the U.S. Army Air Corps (USAAC) but was denied solely due to his race. With the support of the NAACP, Williams filed a federal lawsuit against the War Department, challenging this discriminatory exclusion. This legal pressure, combined with persistent advocacy from civil rights organizations and the African American press, compelled the U.S. government to establish the Tuskegee Airmen program, thereby opening the doors for African American pilots in the military. Magellan Jets+1Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1Magellan Jets+1

It's also noteworthy that while the NAACP initially opposed the creation of a segregated training program, advocating instead for integrated pilot training, they eventually supported the Tuskegee initiative as a pragmatic step toward broader inclusion. National WWII Museum

This historical context underscores the significant impact of legal challenges and advocacy in breaking racial barriers within the U.S. military.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Because Woodrow Wilson and FDR were racists democrats

And if they had been republicans, would that have changed anything?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The Tuskeegee airmen, of which I have known quite a few, were extraordinary men. They succeeded in spite of the rampant racism that existed.

They WERE recipients of institutional racism, and they still rose above.

They were exceptional but there are a lot of Black men and women who are exceptional, all throughout history.

And unfortunately, when they returned home, the country that they had risked their lives for treated them no differently than it had before they left. If anyone had proven their capabilities it was these distinguished pilots, yet it would be almost 20 years before the airlines would hire their first African American pilot and then only after, once again, a lawsuit was filed.
----
Marlon Dewitt Green, whose landmark legal battle paved the way for African American pilots in commercial aviation:

Early Life and Military Service:

• Birth: June 6, 1929, in El Dorado, Arkansas.
• Education: Co-valedictorian at Xavier Preparatory High School in New Orleans, Louisiana.BlackPast.org
• Military Career: Joined the U.S. Air Force in 1948, earning his wings in 1950. Over nine years, he accumulated over 3,000 flight hours piloting bombers and multi-engine aircraft. BlackPast.org

Pioneering Commercial Aviation:

• Application to Continental Airlines: In 1957, Green applied to Continental Airlines. Despite his extensive experience, he was passed over in favor of less experienced white pilots.
• Legal Battle: Green filed a complaint with the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Commission, leading to a six-year legal struggle that culminated in a unanimous U.S. Supreme Court decision in his favor in 1963. BlackPast.org
• Employment with Continental Airlines: Following the court's decision, Green began flying for Continental in 1965 and was promoted to captain in 1966. He served with the airline until his retirement in 1978. BlackPast.org

Legacy:

• Impact: Green's perseverance and legal victory were instrumental in dismantling racial barriers in the U.S. airline industry, paving the way for future African American pilots.
• Recognition: In 2010, Continental Airlines honored Green by naming a Boeing 737 aircraft after him, acknowledging his significant contributions to aviation and civil rights. National Air and Space Museum

Personal Life:

• Family: Green was married to Eleanor Gallagher, with whom he had six children. BlackPast.org
• Passing: He passed away on July 6, 2009, in Denver, Colorado, at the age of 80. BlackPast.org

Marlon Green's legacy serves as a testament to courage and determination, breaking racial barriers and setting a precedent for equality in the aviation industry.

 

[BothWings]

You mean racism. Racism is the condition, racial segregation is the effect of racism.


They were segregated because of white racism.


But you're not explaining anything.

In 1941, Yancey Williams, a Howard University student and licensed pilot, applied to the U.S. Army Air Corps (USAAC) but was denied solely due to his race. With the support of the NAACP, Williams filed a federal lawsuit against the War Department, challenging this discriminatory exclusion. This legal pressure, combined with persistent advocacy from civil rights organizations and the African American press, compelled the U.S. government to establish the Tuskegee Airmen program, thereby opening the doors for African American pilots in the military. Magellan Jets+1Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1Magellan Jets+1

It's also noteworthy that while the NAACP initially opposed the creation of a segregated training program, advocating instead for integrated pilot training, they eventually supported the Tuskegee initiative as a pragmatic step toward broader inclusion. National WWII Museum

This historical context underscores the significant impact of legal challenges and advocacy in breaking racial barriers within the U.S. military.

We all know segregation is a product of racism, Einstein....but thanks.

The OP asks if we believe the Tuskegee Airmen were DEI. I said they were victims of segregation. IM2 himself says the same and yet still pretends that I said something wrong because I'm white even when we obviously agree. So there's that.

 

[BothWings]

I read very well. Look white racist trash, you said they were segregated to prevent bigotry from hindering the war effort when in fact, they were segregated because they were black. Black soldiers had been segregated long before there was a war, they were segregated in the Civil War, and they were segregated in WW1. Your comment was the same racist excuse used to justify the segregation and it was inaccurate.

No you don't read very well at all. You blatantly ignored the fact that I acknowledged that this Tuskegee Airmen were victims of segregation. But you can keep on pretending I said something else if you want, racist.

 

[IM2]

We all know segregation is a product of racism, Einstein....but thanks.

The OP asks if we believe the Tuskegee Airmen were DEI. I said they were victims of segregation. IM2 himself says the same and yet still pretends that I said something wrong because I'm white even when we obviously agree. So there's that.

That's because you WERE wrong in your explanation of why they were segregated.

 

[IM2]

No you don't read very well at all. You blatantly ignored the fact that I acknowledged that this Tuskegee Airmen were victims of segregation. But you can keep on pretending I said something else if you want, racist.

I read every word you said. The Tuskegee Airmen were segregated because of race, not because bigotry would interfere with the war effort.