Poland and the Jews

[ESay]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. The number of the Jews living there highly exceeded the numbers in any other parts of Europe, and what is more important they experienced great freedoms; persecutions especially organized ones were quite a rare.

The situation began to differ when Poland became a part of neighboring empires. Anti-Jewish sentiments were growing since then and according to some opinions they were encouraged by occupying authorities, especially in the Russian Empire.

During WWII a catastrophe occurred when 90 percent of them were persecuted. There are various accounts about the Poles and their role in this. From the one hand, the Poles exceed other nations among the Righteous and the level of collaborators with the Nazis is low.
From the other, some Poles also took part in atrocities and as a whole they were quite passive in defending the Jews. Moreover, those rescuers were often condemned by their neighbours and even after the Nazis were defeated they experienced harassment and some of them were forced to leave their places.

I know that on this forum there are many people with Jewish origin. What is your opinion about the Poles and their role in WWII?
Others are also welcomed with their opinions about the matter.

 

[mudwhistle]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. The number of the Jews living there highly exceeded the numbers in any other parts of Europe, and what is more important they experienced great freedoms; persecutions especially organized ones were quite a rare.

The situation began to differ when Poland became a part of neighboring empires. Anti-Jewish sentiments were growing since then and according to some opinions they were encouraged by occupying authorities, especially in the Russian Empire.

During WWII a catastrophe occurred when 90 percent of them were persecuted. There are various accounts about the Poles and their role in this. From the one hand, the Poles exceed other nations among the Righteous and the level of collaborators with the Nazis is low.
From the other, some Poles also took part in atrocities and as a whole they were quite passive in defending the Jews. Moreover, those rescuers were often condemned by their neighbours and even after the Nazis were defeated they experienced harassment and some of them were forced to leave their places.

I know that on this forum there are many people with Jewish origin. What is your opinion about the Poles and their role in WWII?
Others are also welcomed with their opinions about the matter.

I think bringing up stuff from 70 years ago is what Democrats do.

 

[Penelope]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. The number of the Jews living there highly exceeded the numbers in any other parts of Europe, and what is more important they experienced great freedoms; persecutions especially organized ones were quite a rare.

The situation began to differ when Poland became a part of neighboring empires. Anti-Jewish sentiments were growing since then and according to some opinions they were encouraged by occupying authorities, especially in the Russian Empire.

During WWII a catastrophe occurred when 90 percent of them were persecuted. There are various accounts about the Poles and their role in this. From the one hand, the Poles exceed other nations among the Righteous and the level of collaborators with the Nazis is low.
From the other, some Poles also took part in atrocities and as a whole they were quite passive in defending the Jews. Moreover, those rescuers were often condemned by their neighbours and even after the Nazis were defeated they experienced harassment and some of them were forced to leave their places.

I know that on this forum there are many people with Jewish origin. What is your opinion about the Poles and their role in WWII?
Others are also welcomed with their opinions about the matter.

I read Poland lost a lot of Poles in WWII . Poland should not be made to pay the Jews. Enough is enough.

 

[ESay]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. The number of the Jews living there highly exceeded the numbers in any other parts of Europe, and what is more important they experienced great freedoms; persecutions especially organized ones were quite a rare.

The situation began to differ when Poland became a part of neighboring empires. Anti-Jewish sentiments were growing since then and according to some opinions they were encouraged by occupying authorities, especially in the Russian Empire.

During WWII a catastrophe occurred when 90 percent of them were persecuted. There are various accounts about the Poles and their role in this. From the one hand, the Poles exceed other nations among the Righteous and the level of collaborators with the Nazis is low.
From the other, some Poles also took part in atrocities and as a whole they were quite passive in defending the Jews. Moreover, those rescuers were often condemned by their neighbours and even after the Nazis were defeated they experienced harassment and some of them were forced to leave their places.

I know that on this forum there are many people with Jewish origin. What is your opinion about the Poles and their role in WWII?
Others are also welcomed with their opinions about the matter.

I read Poland lost a lot of Poles in WWII . Poland should not be made to pay the Jews. Enough is enough.

It is not about the payments. Though, I know that some demand them. The main question is how the country degraded to such level?

Without its Jewish population Poland lost a part of its identification, if it may be called that.

 

[harmonica]

why did hitler/etc hate the jews and want them out?...I've read about WW2 for almost 40 years, and have never really read about the direct reason hitler wanted them out
.....my uncle would say little ''quips'' about jews and blacks ....my father--his brother--would never say anything about jews or blacks ....

 

[Penelope]

why did hitler/etc hate the jews and want them out?...I've read about WW2 for almost 40 years, and have never really read about the direct reason hitler wanted them out
.....my uncle would say little ''quips'' about jews and blacks ....my father--his brother--would never say anything about jews or blacks ....

Judea declared war on Germany in 1933, when Hitler was elected. Financial war.

 

[Penelope]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. The number of the Jews living there highly exceeded the numbers in any other parts of Europe, and what is more important they experienced great freedoms; persecutions especially organized ones were quite a rare.

The situation began to differ when Poland became a part of neighboring empires. Anti-Jewish sentiments were growing since then and according to some opinions they were encouraged by occupying authorities, especially in the Russian Empire.

During WWII a catastrophe occurred when 90 percent of them were persecuted. There are various accounts about the Poles and their role in this. From the one hand, the Poles exceed other nations among the Righteous and the level of collaborators with the Nazis is low.
From the other, some Poles also took part in atrocities and as a whole they were quite passive in defending the Jews. Moreover, those rescuers were often condemned by their neighbours and even after the Nazis were defeated they experienced harassment and some of them were forced to leave their places.

I know that on this forum there are many people with Jewish origin. What is your opinion about the Poles and their role in WWII?
Others are also welcomed with their opinions about the matter.

I read Poland lost a lot of Poles in WWII . Poland should not be made to pay the Jews. Enough is enough.

It is not about the payments. Though, I know that some demand them. The main question is how the country degraded to such level?

Without its Jewish population Poland lost a part of its identification, if it may be called that.

Gee I don't know, I don't live there.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. The number of the Jews living there highly exceeded the numbers in any other parts of Europe, and what is more important they experienced great freedoms; persecutions especially organized ones were quite a rare.

The situation began to differ when Poland became a part of neighboring empires. Anti-Jewish sentiments were growing since then and according to some opinions they were encouraged by occupying authorities, especially in the Russian Empire.

During WWII a catastrophe occurred when 90 percent of them were persecuted. There are various accounts about the Poles and their role in this. From the one hand, the Poles exceed other nations among the Righteous and the level of collaborators with the Nazis is low.
From the other, some Poles also took part in atrocities and as a whole they were quite passive in defending the Jews. Moreover, those rescuers were often condemned by their neighbours and even after the Nazis were defeated they experienced harassment and some of them were forced to leave their places.

I know that on this forum there are many people with Jewish origin. What is your opinion about the Poles and their role in WWII?
Others are also welcomed with their opinions about the matter.

I read Poland lost a lot of Poles in WWII . Poland should not be made to pay the Jews. Enough is enough.

It is not about the payments. Though, I know that some demand them. The main question is how the country degraded to such level?

Without its Jewish population Poland lost a part of its identification, if it may be called that.

Degraded to what?
Why would anybody think Poland owes Jews money? Who Poland was an Allied power who fought, and lost a ton of lives to the Nazi Germans.

Why would anybody think that current Poles owe property lost nearly 80 years ago from Nazi Germany, and Soviet decisions thrusted upon the Polish people by force?

Anyways, Jews didn't pay taxes on those properties, in any other circle those properties would be lost.
But, the parasites are out for theirs, and can't grasp why they're hated, while claiming to be intellectually superior.

How bizarre, that the so called intellectually superior Jew can't figure out who did the Holocaust, either.

As for Jews being an integral part of Poland?
How?
In the 1930's census nearly 90% of Jews in Poland, spoke Yiddish a German based language, or Hebrew, only a major minority spoke Polish.

Truth is many Jews themselves living in Poland, simply didn't see themselves as Polish by this time, but as Russians, or Germans.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. The number of the Jews living there highly exceeded the numbers in any other parts of Europe, and what is more important they experienced great freedoms; persecutions especially organized ones were quite a rare.

The situation began to differ when Poland became a part of neighboring empires. Anti-Jewish sentiments were growing since then and according to some opinions they were encouraged by occupying authorities, especially in the Russian Empire.

During WWII a catastrophe occurred when 90 percent of them were persecuted. There are various accounts about the Poles and their role in this. From the one hand, the Poles exceed other nations among the Righteous and the level of collaborators with the Nazis is low.
From the other, some Poles also took part in atrocities and as a whole they were quite passive in defending the Jews. Moreover, those rescuers were often condemned by their neighbours and even after the Nazis were defeated they experienced harassment and some of them were forced to leave their places.

I know that on this forum there are many people with Jewish origin. What is your opinion about the Poles and their role in WWII?
Others are also welcomed with their opinions about the matter.

Nearly 200,000 Poles were killed, or injured, or MIA in the Nazi German September invasion of Poland, FIGHTING NAZI Germany.

Nearly 200,000 Poles were killed, fighting Nazi Germans, once AGAIN in the Warsaw Uprising, FIGHTING Nazi Germany.

Poles financed a ton of military fighting the Nazis, furthermore a ton of aid in Zegota aided by Polish financing, aided, sheltered, and fed Holocaust victim Jews.

Maybe Jews should be paying Poland money for allowing them in as "Refugees" for "Zegota" for the "Military that fought the Nazis"

Ever think of that one?

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

I know that on this forum there are many people with Jewish origin. What is your opinion about the Poles and their role in WWII?
Others are also welcomed with their opinions about the matter.

The opinion of the "Other" a Goyim, of Catholic, and Polish heritages.

Plain, and simple, why is it anti-Semitic (Prejudices) like a Nazi, to blame Jews for Jewish Nazi collaborators like Jewish Ghetto Police, but not anti-Polish (Prejudices) like a Nazi, to blame Poles for the Holocaust?

Poles were the first victims of Auschwitz.

It was bad enough when a lot of Jews neglected Polish victims of Nazi brutality,

It's downright outrageous when a lot of Jews blame Polish victims of the Holocaust, for the Holocaust.

 

[Litwin]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. ....

2 mistakes
1) participation of Poland and GDL , RP (commonwealth of 2 nations) was not the Polish state, it was a confederation
2) no, it was not that easy , but The Jews have had it better ( most of the time) in Poland and GDL than i the most of the Europe. and I am 100% sure that in Holland Jews had it better

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. ....

and I am 100% sure that in Holland Jews had it better

Maybe in the 1930's, but not in the 1630's.

 

[Litwin]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. ....

and I am 100% sure that in Holland Jews had it better

Maybe in the 1930's, but not in the 1630's.

Besides merchants, many physicians were among the Spanish Jews in Amsterdam. These included Samuel Abravanel, David Nieto, Elijah Montalto, and the Bueno family. Joseph Bueno was consulted in the illness of Prince Maurice in April, 1623. Jews were admitted as students to the university, where they studied medicine as the only branch of science that was of practical use to them. They were not allowed to practice law, because lawyers were required to take a Christian oath, thereby excluding them. Jews were also excluded from the trade guilds, as in a 1632 resolution passed by the city of Amsterdam (the Dutch cities were largely autonomous). However, they were allowed to practice certain trades: printing, bookselling, and selling meat, poultry, groceries, and medicines. In 1655 a Sephardic Jew was exceptionally permitted to establish a sugar refinery using chemical methods....
Many German Jews were also attracted later to the tolerant and independent Dutch provinces, generally after the mid-17th century.

in Polish - Belarusian (Great Litvin) confederation , the Jews were mostly magnats employees (tax collectors from peasants , all kind of middle hands , etc. ) which made them automatically the hate objects for 90 % of local population (peasants) Magnat – Wikipedia

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. ....

and I am 100% sure that in Holland Jews had it better

Maybe in the 1930's, but not in the 1630's.

Besides merchants, many physicians were among the Spanish Jews in Amsterdam. These included Samuel Abravanel, David Nieto, Elijah Montalto, and the Bueno family. Joseph Bueno was consulted in the illness of Prince Maurice in April, 1623. Jews were admitted as students to the university, where they studied medicine as the only branch of science that was of practical use to them. They were not allowed to practice law, because lawyers were required to take a Christian oath, thereby excluding them. Jews were also excluded from the trade guilds, as in a 1632 resolution passed by the city of Amsterdam (the Dutch cities were largely autonomous). However, they were allowed to practice certain trades: printing, bookselling, and selling meat, poultry, groceries, and medicines. In 1655 a Sephardic Jew was exceptionally permitted to establish a sugar refinery using chemical methods....
Many German Jews were also attracted later to the tolerant and independent Dutch provinces, generally after the mid-17th century.

in Polish - Belarusian (Great Litvin) confederation , the Jews were mostly magnats employees (tax collectors from peasants , all kind of middle hands , etc. ) which made them automatically the hate objects for 90 % of local population (peasants) Magnat – Wikipedia

Jews had a lot of trades in the Polish - Lithuanian commonwealth.

Why do you suggest, they did not?

 

[ESay]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. The number of the Jews living there highly exceeded the numbers in any other parts of Europe, and what is more important they experienced great freedoms; persecutions especially organized ones were quite a rare.

The situation began to differ when Poland became a part of neighboring empires. Anti-Jewish sentiments were growing since then and according to some opinions they were encouraged by occupying authorities, especially in the Russian Empire.

During WWII a catastrophe occurred when 90 percent of them were persecuted. There are various accounts about the Poles and their role in this. From the one hand, the Poles exceed other nations among the Righteous and the level of collaborators with the Nazis is low.
From the other, some Poles also took part in atrocities and as a whole they were quite passive in defending the Jews. Moreover, those rescuers were often condemned by their neighbours and even after the Nazis were defeated they experienced harassment and some of them were forced to leave their places.

I know that on this forum there are many people with Jewish origin. What is your opinion about the Poles and their role in WWII?
Others are also welcomed with their opinions about the matter.

Nearly 200,000 Poles were killed, or injured, or MIA in the Nazi German September invasion of Poland, FIGHTING NAZI Germany.

Nearly 200,000 Poles were killed, fighting Nazi Germans, once AGAIN in the Warsaw Uprising, FIGHTING Nazi Germany.

Poles financed a ton of military fighting the Nazis, furthermore a ton of aid in Zegota aided by Polish financing, aided, sheltered, and fed Holocaust victim Jews.

Maybe Jews should be paying Poland money for allowing them in as "Refugees" for "Zegota" for the "Military that fought the Nazis"

Ever think of that one?

I am not arguing that Poland suffered great loses in WWII. And I am not arguing that many Poles risked their lives and the lives of their families to save Jews from crazy Nazis.

But what puzzles me is what happened after the war. Why some Rightous expirienced harassment from their compatriots? Why it was possible that such disgraceful things as the Kielce pogrom happened?

 

[ESay]

As for Jews being an integral part of Poland?
How?
In the 1930's census nearly 90% of Jews in Poland, spoke Yiddish a German based language, or Hebrew, only a major minority spoke Polish.

They lived there virtually from the establishment of Polish state. They considered Poland as a safe haven and gathered there from all of Europe. They played significant role in economic relations. The Polish Jews played a major role in developing of Judaism (for example, the Hasidic branch was established there, unless I am not mistaken).

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. The number of the Jews living there highly exceeded the numbers in any other parts of Europe, and what is more important they experienced great freedoms; persecutions especially organized ones were quite a rare.

The situation began to differ when Poland became a part of neighboring empires. Anti-Jewish sentiments were growing since then and according to some opinions they were encouraged by occupying authorities, especially in the Russian Empire.

During WWII a catastrophe occurred when 90 percent of them were persecuted. There are various accounts about the Poles and their role in this. From the one hand, the Poles exceed other nations among the Righteous and the level of collaborators with the Nazis is low.
From the other, some Poles also took part in atrocities and as a whole they were quite passive in defending the Jews. Moreover, those rescuers were often condemned by their neighbours and even after the Nazis were defeated they experienced harassment and some of them were forced to leave their places.

I know that on this forum there are many people with Jewish origin. What is your opinion about the Poles and their role in WWII?
Others are also welcomed with their opinions about the matter.

Nearly 200,000 Poles were killed, or injured, or MIA in the Nazi German September invasion of Poland, FIGHTING NAZI Germany.

Nearly 200,000 Poles were killed, fighting Nazi Germans, once AGAIN in the Warsaw Uprising, FIGHTING Nazi Germany.

Poles financed a ton of military fighting the Nazis, furthermore a ton of aid in Zegota aided by Polish financing, aided, sheltered, and fed Holocaust victim Jews.

Maybe Jews should be paying Poland money for allowing them in as "Refugees" for "Zegota" for the "Military that fought the Nazis"

Ever think of that one?

Why it was possible that such disgraceful things as the Kielce pogrom happened?

Why is it far more disgraceful things were done by Communist Jews towards Poles following WW2?

Jakub Berman was the Jew in charge of the Soviet secret police out of Poland, called the UB, which killed upwards of some 6,000 Poles, and which imprisoned upwards of some 500,000 Poles for political crimes.

Salomon Morel was the Jew in charge of the Soviet death camps against Poles, and Germans called the Zgoda Labour Camp, thousands of more Poles likely killed there, along with his butchering of Poles at Lublin Castle.

Roman Romkowski, and Jozef Rozanski, two Jewish Communist UB officials, tortured, and sentenced Pole Witold Pilecki to death.

The thing is Witold Pilecki was the Pole who fought against Nazis in WW2, including in the anti-Nazi Warsaw Uprising, he also documented the Holocaust, in Witold's Report.
In that Witold Pilecki volunteered to be captured at Auschwitz, to gather information about the Holocaust to the Allies to prove it was legit?

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

As for Jews being an integral part of Poland?
How?
In the 1930's census nearly 90% of Jews in Poland, spoke Yiddish a German based language, or Hebrew, only a major minority spoke Polish.

They lived there virtually from the establishment of Polish state. They considered Poland as a safe haven and gathered there from all of Europe. They played significant role in economic relations. The Polish Jews played a major role in developing of Judaism (for example, the Hasidic branch was established there, unless I am not mistaken).

Sure, So nearly 1,000 years of Poland's Jews, and they never assimilated, speaking a German based Yiddish as the majority in the 1930's?

 

[Litwin]

For centuries, almost from the times of its creation and to the final participation of Poland, the Polish state was utterly friendly to the Jews. The number of the Jews living there highly exceeded the numbers in any other parts of Europe, and what is more important they experienced great freedoms; persecutions especially organized ones were quite a rare.

The situation began to differ when Poland became a part of neighboring empires. Anti-Jewish sentiments were growing since then and according to some opinions they were encouraged by occupying authorities, especially in the Russian Empire.

During WWII a catastrophe occurred when 90 percent of them were persecuted. There are various accounts about the Poles and their role in this. From the one hand, the Poles exceed other nations among the Righteous and the level of collaborators with the Nazis is low.
From the other, some Poles also took part in atrocities and as a whole they were quite passive in defending the Jews. Moreover, those rescuers were often condemned by their neighbours and even after the Nazis were defeated they experienced harassment and some of them were forced to leave their places.

I know that on this forum there are many people with Jewish origin. What is your opinion about the Poles and their role in WWII?
Others are also welcomed with their opinions about the matter.

Nearly 200,000 Poles were killed, or injured, or MIA in the Nazi German September invasion of Poland, FIGHTING NAZI Germany.

Nearly 200,000 Poles were killed, fighting Nazi Germans, once AGAIN in the Warsaw Uprising, FIGHTING Nazi Germany.

Poles financed a ton of military fighting the Nazis, furthermore a ton of aid in Zegota aided by Polish financing, aided, sheltered, and fed Holocaust victim Jews.

Maybe Jews should be paying Poland money for allowing them in as "Refugees" for "Zegota" for the "Military that fought the Nazis"

Ever think of that one?

But what puzzles me is what happened after the war. Why some Rightous expirienced harassment from their compatriots? Why it was possible that such disgraceful things as the Kielce pogrom happened?

"russian" occupants didn´t trust to the old polish elites, instead they bring to power in Poland - Jews, "russian" Poles (like Konstantin Rokossovsky) , and Polish leftists working class Poles . so many Poles saw the Jews after WW2 as the occupants (or occupants ´s sidekicks) in 1956 Polish elites took over from "russian " marionettes all political power in Poland and removed most of "russians" and Jews from top - positions in Poland, but it is another story

Salomon Morel - Wikipedia

"
Salomon Morel (November 15, 1919 – February 14, 2007) was a Polish NKVD and MBP officer in the Polish People's Republic. He is known as the commander of a number of concentration camps run by NKVD and Polish communist authorities until 1956. He later immigrated to Israel and acquired Israeli citizenship, and was wanted on charges of torture, war crimes, crimes against humanity and communist crimes in post-communist Poland.[1]...

Extradition controversy
In 1998, Poland requested that Morel be extradited for trial, but Israel refused.[9] A reply sent to the Polish Justice Ministry from the Israeli government said that Israel would not extradite Mr. Morel as the statute of limitations had expired on war crimes.[9]
Legacy
In April 2004, Poland filed another extradition request against Morel, this time with fresh evidence, upgrading the case to "communist crimes against the population."[9] The main charge against Salomon Morel was that, as commandant of the Zgoda camp at Świętochłowice, he created for the prisoners in this camp, out of ethnic and political considerations, conditions that jeopardised their lives, including starvation and torture.[9] The charges against Morel were based primarily on the evidence of over 100 witnesses, including 58 former inmates of the Zgoda camp.[9] In July 2005 this request was again formally refused by the Israeli government. The response rejected the more serious charges as being false, potentially part of an antisemitic conspiracy, and again rejected extradition on the grounds that the statute of limitations against Morel had run out, and that Morel was in poor health.[9] Ewa Koj, a prosecutor with the Polish Institute of National Remembrance, criticized the decision. “There should be one measure for judging war criminals, whether they are German, Israeli or of any other nationality,” Koj said. Morel died in Tel Aviv on February 14, 2007, seventeen years after the investigation and prosecution of him started.[9][23][24][7][5]
__

Jakub Berman (26 December 1901 – 10 April 1984) was a prominent Polish communist during the Second Polish Republic (prior to World War II). In the Polish People's Republic, he was a member of the Politburo of the Polish United Workers' Party (PZPR). Berman was in charge of the Ministry of Public Security and was considered Joseph Stalin's right hand in Poland.

Jakub Berman - Wikipedia

• Czesław Gęborski
• Helena Wolińska-Brus
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Michnik

 

[Bleipriester]

The situation began to differ when Poland became a part of neighboring empires. Anti-Jewish sentiments were growing since then

Jews are not of Polish origin in the end. They were immigrants.
It is old good poor Poland story, surrounded by savages, ect.