Please Explain....Uvalde response....

[justoffal]

So how did that change after waiting so long?

Look most of what I know about the situation I got off the 1 hour special last night which obviously had a lot of holes in it. I'm asking questions not making statements and I got some pretty good answers. I admit sometimes you just have to act. I did not get the impression that it was a hardened police force but more or less looked like a mutated volunteer fire department. I didn't see one cop there that could run a lap. By the same token our society seems to despise overmuscled police officers who are extremely good at their job...they seem to end up in trouble too.

Jo

 

[justoffal]

Police chiefs all over the country know what the problem is. How the officers are trained and what the priorities are concerning budgets. Most agree that police departments need to reform, whether it's use of force tactics, physical conditioning, racial bias, and lack of crisis intervention training, especially with mental illness. What happens in many departments nationwide is an officer gets hired and receives little or no training and/or re-certifications afterwards.

HUZZAH! NOW WE'RE GETTING TO THE MEAT OF THE MATTER.

THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT ANSWER. IT GOES BACK TO WHAT I POINTED OUT EARLIER THAT THE PROBLEM STARTS HIGHER THAN JUST AT THE POLICE LEVEL ITSELF. THE COMMUNITY HAS TO ASK ITSELF THE QUESTION WHAT TYPE OF POLICE FORCE DO WE NEED? WHAT ARE WE WILLING TO PAY FOR? HOW DEADLY DO WE WANT TO POLICE FORCE TO BE? Jumping up and down and calling them a bunch of cowards doesn't sound like a real solution to me.

 

[justoffal]

who said I would go in carelessly???
I leave that to people like you that would run by a room and just shoot into it without looking,,

I know nothing about what you know.... You know nothing about what I know.
Why don't you stop with the personal attacks and just give me some good information.... So far I've been willing to accept what you said about them waiting out the action.... Something I did not know.... And I'm willing to accept that maybe they should have gone in. I haven't heard any of those things in any news program or on any TV special that dealt with the subject. All I've heard is that the cops failed. They were a pathetic looking bunch to be sure.... There wasn't a single one of them that wasn't morbidly obese.
Most of them were Hispanic.
I got the impression that they had absolutely no training whatsoever in this kind of thing. My attention isn't just focused on the police It's focused on the lack of urban planning. A deeper and more abiding solution than the Judge Dread thing.... By the same token we seem to despise police officers who are too good at their job.

 

[okfine]

HUZZAH! NOW WE'RE GETTING TO THE MEAT OF THE MATTER.

THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT ANSWER. IT GOES BACK TO WHAT I POINTED OUT EARLIER THAT THE PROBLEM STARTS HIGHER THAN JUST AT THE POLICE LEVEL ITSELF. THE COMMUNITY HAS TO ASK ITSELF THE QUESTION WHAT TYPE OF POLICE FORCE DO WE NEED? WHAT ARE WE WILLING TO PAY FOR? HOW DEADLY DO WE WANT TO POLICE FORCE TO BE?

The higher powers that be.
Many police chiefs have issues with "blind eyed" mayors and city councils who determine what they get and what is actually needed.

 

[justoffal]

The higher powers that be.
Many police chiefs have issues with "blind eyed" mayors and city councils who determine what they get and what is actually needed.

I have to think that this is a combination of both of those things. The kid with the gun obviously was no beginner even though he was a kid. Once the cops heard that they were facing AR ammo I'm guessing a lot of them started thinking about that $13 an hour they make and whether or not they had any business being there. I could understand that. Just admitting that probably makes me a coward in some people's eyes. However I advocate for a little more intelligence and a little less Rambo. Rambo-ism is great for television but it really sucks in real life and basically does more damage than good. There are plenty of Rambos in the graveyard who can't save anyone anymore.

 

[justoffal]

The higher powers that be.
Many police chiefs have issues with "blind eyed" mayors and city councils who determine what they get and what is actually needed.

So you're saying that rather than politically correct police officers what we really need ate guys who are physically fit,
Well trained and ready for action. Geez....that probably costs some money... Maybe a few less rainbow flags and a few more hours of combat training. None of this stuff is free. But if you feel a force of morbidly obese police officers making Barely enough to pay their rent and with little unknown training in actual urban violence scenarios maybe the issue of cowardice isn't the actual issue.

 

[justoffal]

Standing around was not an option.
See Police response to Nashville shooter.
Talk about a happy ending.

I guess my observation on that would be the difference between the two police forces and why they were so different. Uvalde a small tax-starved Urban center was able to field a collection of morbidly obese and poorly trained glorified security guards. Nashville on the other hand seems to have done a bit better for themselves. Still not sure that the word coward applies here.

 

[okfine]

So you're saying that rather than politically correct police officers what we really need ate guys who are physically fit,
Well trained and ready for action. Geez....that probably costs some money... Maybe a few less rainbow flags and a few more hours of combat training. None of this stuff is free. But if you feel a force of morbidly obese police officers making Barely enough to pay their rent and with little unknown training in actual urban violence scenarios maybe the issue of cowardice isn't the actual issue.

Letting your force dwindle into nothing but fat, dumb and lazy seems to ring true. Could you imagine living in KY or TN where an officer works for $10.00 an hour? You aren't getting much but what you pay for.

 

[justoffal]

Letting your force dwindle into nothing but fat, dumb and lazy seems to ring true. Could you imagine living in KY or TN where an officer works for $10.00 an hour? You aren't getting much but what you pay for.

Yeah

 

[Donald H]

Sorry guys but you're all just blowing smoke up a dead dog's ass.
................, until ya'all face the fact that your country has adopted a culture of violence and wars that leads low intelligence goons with guns to turn them on children.

As a Canadian observer I can explain further if any of you CARE enough to ask me politely.
(after you all calm down and start acting like adults)

If not then just accept that 2nd. amendment rights has a cost in little school kids. Go figure.

 

[justoffal]

Sorry guys but you're all just blowing smoke up a dead dog's ass.
................, until ya'all face the fact that your country has adopted a culture of violence and wars that leads low intelligence goons with guns to turn them on children.

As a Canadian observer I can explain further if any of you CARE enough to ask me politely.
(after you all calm down and start acting like adults)

If not then just accept that 2nd. amendment rights has a cost in little school kids. Go figure.

I think they are two different issues. Though I can certainly see how your relate them. I do know that there are similar situations in Canada occasionally but I'm not aware of the comparative ratio. I'm going to find myself agreeing with you on the gun culture side...... It's definitely over the top and probably socially damaging to growing children. I seriously doubt whether or not it would cease to exist however even with the most stringent gun regulations and the elimination of the second amendment. Police would still find themselves in deadly situations....... Though admittedly if there was no AR-15 on the property it would most likely have ended a lot sooner and with much less carnage.

 

[progressive hunter]

I know nothing about what you know.... You know nothing about what I know.
Why don't you stop with the personal attacks and just give me some good information.... So far I've been willing to accept what you said about them waiting out the action.... Something I did not know.... And I'm willing to accept that maybe they should have gone in. I haven't heard any of those things in any news program or on any TV special that dealt with the subject. All I've heard is that the cops failed. They were a pathetic looking bunch to be sure.... There wasn't a single one of them that wasn't morbidly obese.
Most of them were Hispanic.
I got the impression that they had absolutely no training whatsoever in this kind of thing. My attention isn't just focused on the police It's focused on the lack of urban planning. A deeper and more abiding solution than the Judge Dread thing.... By the same token we seem to despise police officers who are too good at their job.

beings youve been wrong about everything up to now you should ignore your impressions and feelings and stick with facts,,,

all cops are trained to go against shooters,,,

 

[BULLDOG]

Look most of what I know about the situation I got off the 1 hour special last night which obviously had a lot of holes in it. I'm asking questions not making statements and I got some pretty good answers. I admit sometimes you just have to act. I did not get the impression that it was a hardened police force but more or less looked like a mutated volunteer fire department. I didn't see one cop there that could run a lap. By the same token our society seems to despise overmuscled police officers who are extremely good at their job...they seem to end up in trouble too.

Jo

Nearly 400 local, state, and federal officers were there long before anything substantial was done. The overwhelming majority was state and federal officers, including 150 border patrol, and 91 state police, all fully armed and supplied. This was not just some volunteer fire department. Not sure if it was cowardice, stupidity, or just not caring about those children bleeding to death. Innocent lives would have been saved if they would have just done their job.

 

[ESay]

Has any police officer been charged with negligence or something like that? Or at least fired from their job?

 

[scruffy]

training had nothing to do with them being cowards,,

They were following orders.

 

[Blues Man]

it really is a shame that no one realizes locking the fucking doors of the school would have prevented this tragedy.

 

[surada]

What were the police officers supposed to do exactly? Bust into the room with automatic weapons spraying bullets in every direction and maybe causing more innocent death?
Granted it wasn't a text book SWAT response but I guarantee you if they rolled in there like buffaloes laying down hundreds of rounds the same angry people would still be angry.
I just doesn't make any sense to me.

JO

Texas is going to put Evangelical Chaplains in the schools.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

What were the police officers supposed to do exactly? Bust into the room with automatic weapons spraying bullets in every direction and maybe causing more innocent death?
Granted it wasn't a text book SWAT response but I guarantee you if they rolled in there like buffaloes laying down hundreds of rounds the same angry people would still be angry.
I just doesn't make any sense to me.

JO

The Uvalde cops were cowards.

Watch this video, these Tennessee cops show you how it's done. These guys don't hesitate a single minute!

 

[justoffal]

The Uvalde cops were cowards.

Watch this video, these Tennessee cops show you how it's done. These guys don't hesitate a single minute!

Yeah they were good.... But there were no hostages involved.... I'm thinking there's a difference. In any case the Tennessee cops come from a bona fide force... they look like police officers. They look physically fit they look like they're very well trained. Uvalde Police look more like an alternate shift of the volunteer fire department. IMO.... They were in over their heads.

There's a difference between breaking up a fight between two sophomores and taking on someone who knows how to handle AN AR. Although a person who had training did show up and take that guy out I'm still looking for details on that and can't find them.

Jo

 

[whitehall]

Look at the way Nashville Cops stopped the trannie terrorist. That's textbook. Uvalde was criminal negligence.