Please Explain....Uvalde response....

[progressive hunter]

So how would armed guards been any better than all those trained policemen?

they could shoot the prick when he enters the building,,

not show up after and hide,,

 

[BULLDOG]

I am more sympathetic to your position than you realize....however I am focusing on the officer's response.....I am trying to figure out exactly why people are angry with them and what they should have done differently or even whether it would have made any difference to those judging them.

The cops hid in the hall like the cowards that they were while kids bled to death.

 

[progressive hunter]

Okay I'll take your word for it.
My curiosity here was with the specificity of what was not done. I think I got some answers. But it also leaves me with more questions. Are we saying that all school districts should now have SWAT ready teams nearby who are trained in confrontational battle tactics? Indeed maybe it is time for that. Maybe this is what Uvalde teaches us.

they didnt shoot the killer and hid knowing that every shot they heard meant another dead child,,,

 

[justoffal]

So how would armed guards been any better than all those trained policemen?

I understand why the guy's angry... I guess my yosha was that I keep hearing that the police failed but nobody telling me how they did fail exactly. His answer was that he would have gone in. Now I read on the news that it was a very powerful rifle that the guy was using and that it shot a teacher through two walls. So even heavily armored cop might be running into his own suicide. What good can he do if he's dead?

 

[justoffal]

they didnt shoot the killer and hid knowing that every shot they heard meant another dead child,,,

I did not know that. I had heard that the assumption was made that everyone who was in that area was already dead. That obviously was not true and it makes a difference in how I feel.

 

[BULLDOG]

they could shoot the prick when he enters the building,,

not show up after and hide,,

Do you really think the only opportunity to shoot him was when he entered?

 

[progressive hunter]

I did not know that. I had heard that the assumption was made that everyone who was in that area was already dead. That obviously was not true and it makes a difference in how I feel.

maybe if you included a link we could speak to your source that didnt know shit about what happened,,

 

[justoffal]

Do you really think the only opportunity to shoot him was when he entered?

I'm surprised they didn't go through the windows or at least try to look in with some kind of a scope.
.

 

[progressive hunter]

Do you really think the only opportunity to shoot him was when he entered?

that was the soonest,, but sure lets leave children open to any kook that would do them harm,,

 

[progressive hunter]

I'm surprised they didn't go through the windows or at least try to look in with some kind of a scope.
.

youre really just a sad excuse for a human,,

all they had to do was their jobs and fewer children would be dead,,

 

[BULLDOG]

I understand why the guy's angry... I guess my yosha was that I keep hearing that the police failed but nobody telling me how they did fail exactly. His answer was that he would have gone in. Now I read on the news that it was a very powerful rifle that the guy was using and that it shot a teacher through two walls. So even heavily armored cop might be running into his own suicide. What good can he do if he's dead?

That's the cop's job. He knew it was the job when he first applied for the position. Just like the military is required to enter dangerous situations, cops sometimes have to do the same.

 

[justoffal]

maybe if you included a link we could speak to your source that didnt know shit about what happened,,

I watched an entire one hour special last night... None of this stuff was talked about.
Mostly it was angry parents cussing out the police. I did see real-time footage of overweight, sloppy looking police officers seemingly waiting up the hallway but I didn't hear repeated gunfire.
Looks like a serious lack of good training to me. That problem goes far higher than the police department itself.

Jo

 

[justoffal]

youre really just a sad excuse for a human,,

all they had to do was their jobs and fewer children would be dead,,

You spend an awful lot of energy on insults and not very much on thinking the way through. Please explain to me what you think their job was. You said you would have confronted the shooter. How exactly? It's a guarantee that if he was in a room he was watching the door. Has it ever occurred to you that you wouldn't have made it even two steps into the room before being blasted away by a powerful bullet armor notwithstanding? What good would your effort be then? There's no real macho in the casket.

 

[progressive hunter]

I watched an entire one hour special last night... None of this stuff was talked about.
Mostly it was angry parents cussing out the police. I did see real-time footage of overweight, sloppy looking police officers seemingly waiting up the hallway but I didn't hear repeated gunfire.
Looks like a serious lack of good training to me. That problem goes far higher than the police department itself.

Jo

well since you watched a special on TV you must be an expert,,


I will stick with actual events instead of what some tv host says,,

 

[progressive hunter]

You spend an awful lot of energy on insults and not very much on thinking the way through. Please explain to me what you think their job was. You said you would have confronted the shooter. How exactly? It's guarantee that if he was in a room he was watching the door. This would ever occur to you that you wouldn't have made it even two steps into the room before being blasted away by a powerful? What good would your effort be then? There's no real macho in the casket.

better than spending a lot of time asking stupid questions,,

it is not guaranteed he would be watching a door while hes shooting children,, and even if he was shooting at me means hes not killing children,, and if he hits me doesnt mean I didnt shoot him or theres another person behind me that will shoot him,,,


it seems you sure do like seeing children killed,,

 

[justoffal]

That's the cop's job. He knew it was the job when he first applied for the position. Just like the military is required to enter dangerous situations, cops sometimes have to do the same.

Okay that's a good answer I accept it. At least you didn't call me a cowerd in the meantime. I have no problem making the ultimate sacrifice for what I believe in.... But I also realize that I can do nothing after I've been blown away. Sometimes macho is not the best strategy.
...

 

[BULLDOG]

You spend an awful lot of energy on insults and not very much on thinking the way through. Please explain to me what you think their job was. You said you would have confronted the shooter. How exactly? It's a guarantee that if he was in a room he was watching the door. Has it ever occurred to you that you wouldn't have made it even two steps into the room before being blasted away by a powerful bullet armor notwithstanding? What good would your effort be then? There's no real macho in the casket.

So how did that change after waiting so long?

 

[justoffal]

better than spending a lot of time asking stupid questions,,

it is not guaranteed he would be watching a door while hes shooting children,, and even if he was shooting at me means hes not killing children,, and if he hits me theres another person behind me that will shoot him,,,


it seems you sure do like seeing children killed,,

You draw conclusions to the point of psychosis. If you carelessly go in there and expose yourself to a quick death what good are all of your efforts after you've been blasted away? So you're telling me you would use no thinking at all? I believe you will find that you would be roundly condemned by most police tacticians for that approach.

 

[okfine]

Okay now we're getting somewhere. So basically it's a poorly trained force that had no idea what to do in a situation like this. I can accept that as a definitive answer of failure. The failure goes much higher than the officers themselves. Either they pick the wrong guy that had up the department or there was a serious urban planning failure somewhere. So where do we draw the line? Do we want a collection of muscle-bound roots ready to pull the trigger at the drop of a hat? We certainly don't want an army of Sancho Panza's who don't know how to respond. This looks like a failure of planning and training to me. These guys were out of their league.

Police chiefs all over the country know what the problem is. How the officers are trained and what the priorities are concerning budgets. Most agree that police departments need to reform, whether it's use of force tactics, physical conditioning, racial bias, and lack of crisis intervention training, especially with mental illness. What happens in many departments nationwide is an officer gets hired and receives little or no training and/or re-certifications afterwards.

 

[progressive hunter]

You draw conclusions to the point of psychosis. If you carelessly go in there and expose yourself to a quick death what good are all of your efforts after you've been blasted away? So you're telling me you would use no thinking at all? I believe you will find that you would be roundly condemned by most police tacticians for that approach.

who said I would go in carelessly???
I leave that to people like you that would run by a room and just shoot into it without looking,,