Please critique my proposed policy to ensure an honest vote

[Flopper]

I don't think that state of the art computer systems use tapes, and in a system that requires both data and operations security, I would think everything would be stored on disk drives that are routinely and periodically copied elsewhere to another location, perhaps more than one. From delivery trucks to people opening the ballots to people feeding them into the scanners to people storing the ballots after that, it can all be monitored by security people who are not employed by the companies that supplied any of the equipment. No one would know who's watching, or who reviews the proceedings or who checks the monitors for any interference. And other people could be receiving data real time over any anomalies, such as 5,000 votes that went all for one person at one time and from the same place. If it's done right, it would be all but impossible to manipulate any relevant process from start to finish.

5,000 votes that went all for one person at one time and from the same place
How about link

 

[Flopper]

Almost all European countries and Canada hand count paper ballots. They rarely do not complete the count within a few hours after their polls close and they have far less problems and far less suspicions re their elections than we do in the USA.

In Canada's last major election 17 million votes were Cast. In the 2020 election in the US, 158 million were cast.

 

[Flopper]

Again I appreciate your confidence in an electronic system. But the fact is millions of voters now do not trust the machines. I am not particularly paranoid about them, but I have no way of knowing whether that machine recorded my ballot as I voted and I always wonder. I just think paper ballots and hand counting is the way to go.

Some voting machines print a copy of the ballot. I don't pay a lot of attention to this any more since I have been voting by mail for the last 20 years and hopefully, I will never have to go to another polling place.

 

[Flopper]

But that would take a federal holiday away from those who are needed to work the polls. We have survived as a nation for more than 200 years and a record number of people went to the polls in the last two elections without making election day a national holiday. People who want to vote will find a way to vote. I think making election day a national holiday is way down on the list of changes that need to be made.

American veterans fought to preserve our nation’s democracy and our right to vote. To honor their sacrifice and to ensure that the greatest number of people have a chance to participate in our elections Congress should make veterans Day and Election day one and same. Another advantage is there would be more people voting during the day alleviating long lines in the evening. As far as poll workers, they would have to work on election day as usually.

 

[Flopper]

I am saying that more than 60% of the electorate is convinced there was sufficient cheating/fraud/unanswered questions re the 2020 election to be of concern. That has little or nothing to do with Trump. I proposed a system and process that would reassure the electorate that our elections are secure, honest, fair, accurate. I don't think that is too much to ask.

That does not agree with what I have read. Only 13 percent of Republicans surveyed in the ABC/Ipsos poll reported high confidence in the election system, yet when we include democrats and independents, 20 percent of respondents are "very confident" in the integrity of the U.S. election system, with an additional 39 percent saying they feel "somewhat confident." That means 59% have confidence in the our electoral system.
Only 20 Percent of Americans Say They're 'Very Confident' in U.S. Election

 

[Flopper]

Every one of those polling places has personnel assigned to check in the voter, give then a ballot, instructions on where and how to fill it out, and what to do with it when they have done that. Some small town precincts are places where everybody knows everybody and people respect the law and those are never any problem. One person can count and tally a few hundred ballots as rarely does every person in a precinct show up to vote. It is the larger precincts with heavy turnout that 5 or 6 people might be needed to complete the count in a few hours. It was done that way for many generations. It needs to be done that way again. New fangled, modern technology is not always an improvement over the more primitive methods.

But why? It's a time consuming process and scanners are for more accurate than humans. And as far as voter fraud, the current system in most states records votes as the voter enters them producing both a paper ballot and electronic ballot. With hand counting your going to have a bunch people counting the ballots and recounting ballots which makes alteration relatively easy. If ballots are destroyed accidentally or on purchase, you still have an electronic backup. With the hand counting system you have nothing.

 

[Foxfyre]

If you don't see the problem of millions of voters not voting, then don't understand the success of our democracy depends on voter participation. The less voter participation, the less elected officials work for public and more they work for special interest groups.

If you think that's what I said, I will just wish you a good night and good day tomorrow.

 

[JoeB131]

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security is part of the system created to advantage Democrats and that resulted in more than half the country distrusting the electoral process. Mayorkas could be the most corrupt and partisan secretary of that department that we've had since.

Please don't be part of the committee who are trying to derail this thread by making it a partisan issue. If you have suggestions for how to restore confidence in our elections among the majority of the electorate, please post them. Otherwise I will assume you are trolling the thread and will wish you a pleasant afternoon.

WHy are you trying to pretend this isn't a partisan issue? There is no signifigant amount of voter fraud going on. In fact, or biggest problem is that most people don't vote at all, because it's kind of a hassle when it shouldn't be.

Biden himself said "It’s no longer about who gets to vote; it’s about making it harder to vote. It’s about who gets to count the vote and whether your vote counts at all." Well in all swing states with Democrats in power, it was Democrats counting the vote and largely making it impossible for anybody else to observe the counting. I don't know how many or if none or all did that honestly but it certainly didn't give anybody but partisan Democrats confidence in the process. If the situation has been reversed and it had been Republicans ejecting Democrat poll watchers and then resuming the counting, you know the Democrats would still be objecting and calling it an illegitimate/fraudulent/stolen election.

Except they didn't exclude legitimate Republican poll watchers, they rejected nutbags who showed up screaming at the poll workers when it was clear Trump was going to lose.

The short answer is most people think their vote will make no difference. They vote because they are expected to vote. Since they don't like wasting their time voting, they certainly are not going dig up proof of citizenship, show up in person at the registration offices weeks before an election, have papers notarize for absentee voting, etc.. Multiple surveys show more people vote when the process is easier and less when it's harder.

In my opinion, if the proposed restrictions on voting was implemented, voter turnout would be at record low level throughout the country. The loss of millions of legal votes would not be worth a reduction in fraudulent votes which are already extremely rare.

Well said. This is never about voter fraud, it's about making it harder for people to vote.

 

[scruffy]

NFBW: i’m not derailing. Foxfyre is spreading disinformation to justify re-arranging our election process. His cause is based on a lie that 60% of the electorate is convinced there was sufficient cheating/fraud/unanswered questions re the 2020 election. The truth is it is 33% of the electorate is convinced there was sufficient cheating/fraud/unanswered questions re the 2020 election. That is only Trump voters.

I was invited here to criticize Foxfyre ’s ideas to change a process that ain’t broke and come to find out that Foxfyre ‘s reason for fixing what ain’t broke is based on disinformation I suspect he picked up on rightwing Facebook.END2210132223

BULLSHIT

Horseshit, cowshit, and pigshit.

You arrogant snot.

Since when did you become the arbiter of truth?

YOU don't get to label ANYTHING as misinformation.

You are neither smart enough nor knowledgeable enough to censor legitimate political discourse based on YOUR whims.

Go straight to hell with your disinformation crap. Everything you clowns labeled as disinformation has been proven real. You fuckers are neither competent nor qualified.

 

[scruffy]

If you went to paper ballots and hand-counting, how would you know whether somebody counted a ballot for one person when it really was another candidate? 150 million ballots is a lot of counting, and anytime people are involved then you have the opportunity for cheating. How many people would that take, and for how long? How many mistakes might be made, honest or otherwise? There are 58 races on my mid-term ballot, and it will take some time to count all of the races correctly and double check them on just one ballot. Suppose a different person is the one doing the double-check; he or she comes up with a different total for a given batch of ballots, what then? I'm not seeing this method as feasible, it's too time-consuming and labor-intensive IMHO. And I think too accessible for fraud.

Now a word about programmer hacking. Some computer systems are closed to external inputs, if the hacker has no avenue to get into the computer then he or she can't do shit. They can be hard-wired and hard-coded with machine code with encryption keys and once installed are not hackable. I'm not talking about the current technology of any of our election systems, they may or may not be all that secure, but they damn well can be. What I am saying is that hackers may be able to acquire somebody's password but it won't do them any good if they can't access the target computer. And that is what our election systems computers need to be. They can be designed, programmed, tested, and fielded with no chance of hacking if it's done right. The key I think is to have different companies and people cross-checking for who did what, to reduce the chances for collusion.

So far as I know, not one of our election computers got hacked, or the data compromised. The problem lies with data entry, people were apparently allowed to input ballots that were not legitimate according to the existing laws, and in some cases observers were shielded from seeing what actually went on. That cannot be allowed to happen again. Even if there are very few cases of voter fraud convictions, when you have nearly half the country with doubts concerning the integrity of our elections, that is truly dangerous to democracy more than anything else.

Probably pretty close.

Definitely a basis for investigation.

 

[scruffy]

Then denounce Trump and his political party that enables the big lie to stay alive. Him and his party are the only reason a third of voters don’t have confidence in our election process.

Vote election deniers out and keep them out and problem is fixed.

Will you please SHUT THE FUCK UP about Trump?

This ain't about Trump, you idiot.

All this garbage you're spewing is showing us quite clearly that YOU are part of the problem.

 

[scruffy]

But why? It's a time consuming process and scanners are for more accurate than humans. And as far as voter fraud, the current system in most states records votes as the voter enters them producing both a paper ballot and electronic ballot. With hand counting your going to have a bunch people counting the ballots and recounting ballots which makes alteration relatively easy. If ballots are destroyed accidentally or on purchase, you still have an electronic backup. With the hand counting system you have nothing.

You completely FAIL to understand the security picture.

EVERY counting method is vulnerable to exploitation.

You have to put a system in place so no single actor can cause a problem. Whether that be a programmer, an election worker, or anyone else

 

[JoeB131]

Here's how you end the kind of voter fraud you are whining about.

Get rid of the electoral college. Then the party in PA fudging a few votes really won't make a difference one way or the other.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Horseshit, cowshit, and pigshit.

Everything you clowns labeled as disinformation has been proven real.

We have a highly educated Trump voter here who appears to have a masters degree in farm animal excrement and is using it as a general argument in defense an indefensible lie that 60% of the electorate is convinced there was sufficient cheating/fraud/unanswered questions re the 2020 election that caused Trump to lose.

scruffy finds no polls that back up the above lie because all the polls the past year and a half report this thing honest and informed citizens accept as truth.

The truth is it is 33% of the electorate is convinced there was sufficient cheating/fraud/unanswered questions re the 2020 election.

Even the must highly programmed Trump voter with shit for a brain and on his brain cannot refute simple mathematics and consistent polling averaged just because shit out of luck Trump voters need to lie about polling as a means to the end of pleasing Trump at every tweeting moment.

Don’t fix what ain’t broke

END2210140714

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I am saying that more than 60% of the electorate is convinced there was sufficient cheating/fraud/unanswered questions re the 2020 election to be of concern. That has little or nothing to do with Trump.

Will you please SHUT THE FUCK UP about Trump?

This ain't about Trump, you idiot.

Was Trump the candidate that lost the 2020 election mentioned by the OP, who for almost two years now is still complaining publicly and with nearly insane in denial of the reality consistency that he won the 2020 due to election fraud. There is zero evidence that Biden won and Trump lost.

That means there is nothing broken that needs to be fixed except passing a law that directly states if a one term president does not concede his loss officially by mid December following certifications of electors in all fifty states and do everything in his or her power to facilitate the peaceful transfer of power to the incoming president / he will be stripped of all the benefits of being a former president including secret service protection, plus do prison time for a minimum of one year and up to 20 years max.

That is all we need to do to fix the election process.

END2210140734

 

[AsherN]

In Canada's last major election 17 million votes were Cast. In the 2020 election in the US, 158 million were cast.

And every ballot had a list of names for exactly 1 position.

 

[schmidlap]

A large majority of American voters say that they support early voting (78 percent) and requiring photo identification to vote (79 percent), according to a new Gallup poll.

The poll, released Friday, found that majorities favor four different election law policies, three of which are geared toward making voting easier and the remaining one toward protecting against voter fraud...

The proportions of white people and people of color (including those who identify as Black, Hispanic, Asian and Native American) who advocate for requiring photo identification to vote are nearly the same, 80 percent versus 77 percent...

In addition to early voting and photo ID laws, the majority of Americans approve of automatic voter registration (65 percent) and sending absentee ballots to all eligible voters (60 percent), according to the poll conducted in July.
Majorities oppose removing inactive voters from voter lists (60 percent) and restricting the number of dropboxes to send in absentee ballots (59 percent).

[Overwhelming majority favors early voting and photo ID laws: Gallup]

 

[scruffy]

We have a highly educated Trump voter here who appears to have a masters degree in farm animal excrement and is using it as a general argument in defense an indefensible lie that 60% of the electorate is convinced there was sufficient cheating/fraud/unanswered questions re the 2020 election that caused Trump to lose.

scruffy finds no polls that back up the above lie because all the polls the past year and a half report this thing honest and informed citizens accept as truth.

The truth is it is 33% of the electorate is convinced there was sufficient cheating/fraud/unanswered questions re the 2020 election.

Even the must highly programmed Trump voter with shit for a brain and on his brain cannot refute simple mathematics and consistent polling averaged just because shit out of luck Trump voters need to lie about polling as a means to the end of pleasing Trump at every tweeting moment.

Don’t fix what ain’t broke

END2210140714

You, sir, are a nasty little leftard moron, and you're NOT operating in good faith, so why don't you do us all a favor and exit the thread. ALLOW the adults to have a discussion. Bye now.

 

[sartre play]

For those who believe the lie that if they lose there was cheating, New rules will change nothing.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Well, see... this is where people like me come in. We can share our knowledge and assist with the comfort level, by making things LOGICAL and UNDERSTANDABLE.

There's so much bullshit in this space, the minute you start talking about elections all the partisans want to jump in and control the stuff.

Whereas, the simple and logical reality, is that our election system simply does not meet modern security standards. Which means it can be exploited.

And, like you, I agree that we (all of us) require CONFIDENCE in our votes. This is not something I'm going to lie down and take, having my vote stolen. I'll fight first. Hopefully that won't be necessary - but yes, it is important for EVERYONE to realize we take this issue seriously.

And if you're taking it seriously, DON'T even think for a NY microsecond that you can make this work without people like me. You can't. Politicians can't. If you let the politicians control a security operation you might as well commit suicide.

Modern security practices are both a science and an art form. We'll need scientists and artists to land the man on the distant planet. Which is how the goal looks at this point - distant

I'm not familiar with election machines but...

Shouldn't there be a law (if there isn't one already) that requires all voting machines to run off of embedded operating systems and programs? All PROMS should be serialized and tested after programming. A test routine that dumps all programming for inspection should be included. They should have specialized limited function microprocessors - not the general-purpose microprocessor found in PCs & MACs.

I'm not sure if that's how it works now, but I think most people assume that computerized voting machines are like their home PCs - they have their programs loaded on a hard drive which can easily be overwritten or modified and microprocessors that can be hacked.

Any ideas?