Planned Parenthood Exposed - New Undercover Video

[Steerpike]

I did not say it did. I was pointing out to you that there are laws which limit the 1st amendment to protect people in places like Planned Parenthood.

Do you think those people did the right thing in creating that hoax and editing the secret video they took?

I do not have a problem with reporters or others using undercover videos to break a story. I would be hesitant to say that any sector of society that impacts the public, such as business (including medical business) should somehow be exempt from journalists being able to uncover illegal activities. I don't have a problem with editing unless it is edited in such a way as to create a false impression.

Blackmail is much difference than regulation of speech concerning the press. The press, after all, is specifically identified in the first amendment. The government has to meet a much higher burden to regulate them, as well they should.

 

[Luissa]

Luissa27 Wrote:

Would you be concerned about this if a Planned Parenthood nurse was caught on tape taking young women who came in for abortions into an office and showing them pictures of aborted fetuses, telling them that they baby would feel pain if they chose abortion and that they were bad people for doing so?

Or would you be thrilled that a person was bold enough to go undercover in order to bring to light the fact that this Planned Parenthood worker was blatantly and disgustingly violating the young woman's rights?

It seems to me that we all love exposes...as long as they are uncovering things that we think are bad...when we think that the people being exposed are doing something good, suddenly its the person with the undercover camera thats the lying, little sneak violating the rights of the poor, innocent, unsuspecting person.

Bottom line, the nurse in question - if in fact guilty, which is currently under investigation - was acting with the belief that she was protecting a 31 year old man who impregnanted a 13 year old girl in violation of the law. If she is guilty...thank goodness that the undercover operation occurred it so she can be fired. A 13 year old girl who was really in that position needs police intervention...not a nurse who thinks that the best course of action is helping her get a quick abortion and sending her back into the arms of her pedophile boyfriend.

We never seem to hear the mass outrage of violation of rights when we find employers not hiring black people or women because they're fat...or pedophiles being caught going to homes of what they think are young children only to run into a 20/20 reporter...suddenly we care more about the fact that people who are breaking the law have been caught.

No I care more about my privacy especially I recieved birth control through planned parenthood because it was affordable.
You guys get all excited when they found one lady who probably knew more about how systems works then you do and made a mistake or is dumb, who knows. It fit in to your whole idea that planned parenthood is evil and all they do is kill babies and protect sex offenders. Planned Parenthood probably prevents more abortions then your stupid pro-life parades.

 

[Makedde]

How could she not report a 13 year old girl being pregnant by a 31 year old man? I know it was a set up, but what if it hadn't been?

I can understand the anger over this, but I can also see another side of it.

Lets say this was genuine. A 13 year old girl claims to be pregnant by a 31 year old man. Now, clearly that is a crime under law.
The woman working for PP has one of two options:

1.) Ignore this and help the girl to obtain an abortion.
2.) Report it, thus notifing the child's parents.

In notifying the parents, the child is stripped of her right to choose abortion. That decision now lies with the parents of that child.

Is it fair for parents to decide whether having a child is in their daughter's best interests? Should parents have the right to control their children in such a way as to remove any reproductive choice from them?

I imagine the woman at PP was also opposed to the parental consent law and was attempting to help the woman/girl obtain an abortion without having to seek parental permission.

Imagine if a young girl came to PP, pregnant and wanting an abortion. Imagine if there was a parental consent law in that State. Lets say the child tells you that she is too afraid to tell her parents she is pregnant, as they are likely to force her to bear her child against her will. What do you do? Do you knowingly break the law to protect the child from her parents, or do you notify her parents and hope that they allow her to make her own choices?

I suspect that the issue of parental consent was a huge factor for the worker in deciding not to report the case to the appropriate authorities.

 

[Ravi]

Nice post, M. I agree that the issue was more than likely the nurse trying to save the "girl" from being forced to give birth.

That said, if she knowingly tried to get around reporting a crime, she should be fired. If she did anything illegal is another story as nothing illegal actually happened.

Unless we get to see the entire video we will never be able to make a rational judgment. For all we know, the "girl" spent twenty minutes in tears saying her parents would force her to marry this man and bear his child. Even the parts of the video where the nurse seems to be saying she doesn't want to know the age seem to be spliced and out of order.

Parental consent laws are probably going to result in a lot of young girls being forced to bear the children of older men. I don't know if that is the actual intent of those that push for these laws but I imagine that will be the result.

 

[Gem]

Luissa27 Wrote:

No I care more about my privacy especially I recieved birth control through planned parenthood because it was affordable.
You guys get all excited when they found one lady who probably knew more about how systems works then you do and made a mistake or is dumb, who knows. It fit in to your whole idea that planned parenthood is evil and all they do is kill babies and protect sex offenders. Planned Parenthood probably prevents more abortions then your stupid pro-life parades.

Wow, thats an awful lot of assumptions made considering that I have stated quite clearly that I am pro-choice numerous times and have been called all sorts of nasty names for it (and because I'm not pro-choice enough for some people I've been called nasty names too...which I'm finding very amusing).

I never stated that I find Planned Parenthood evil, I got my first birth control from Planned Parenthood as well, and visited a Planned Parenthood when I had a condom break in college. I have only stated that there have been several cases that I have seen in the media where a Planned Parenthood employee has seemed far more willing to help a woman get the abortion rather than interested in following the law.

I have also stated numerous times that I truly believe that if this nurse is guilty (and I have been careful to always state that this being a fraud is possible), I have no problem believing that she thought she was acting in the best interest of the girl in question....rather than evilly plotting to get a 13-year old girl "cleaned up" and ready to go back to her 31-year old boyfriend.

Please be careful with what assumptions you toss around here...far too many people are doing that on this thread and it just makes people look silly.

What I have stated and asked numerous times with little avail...is what do we care more about? Easy access to abortion for all or following laws that were set up to protect children and catch and prosecute sexual offenders?

What if this nurse WAS sending a 13 year old back to have more sex with a 31 year old man? Even if she believed she was doing the right thing...does she have the authority to make that call?

Are these laws antiquated or unworkable and need to be changed to be more effective? Should we re-examine at what age young women are having sex and not be so quick to slap a statutory rape charge on cases? Should Planned Parenthood be re-examining their means of ascertaining that their staff is following the law?

These, I think, are interesting questions that this tape has spawned....

 

[eots]

Luissa27 Wrote:


Wow, thats an awful lot of assumptions made considering that I have stated quite clearly that I am pro-choice numerous times and have been called all sorts of nasty names for it (and because I'm not pro-choice enough for some people I've been called nasty names too...which I'm finding very amusing).

I never stated that I find Planned Parenthood evil, I got my first birth control from Planned Parenthood as well, and visited a Planned Parenthood when I had a condom break in college. I have only stated that there have been several cases that I have seen in the media where a Planned Parenthood employee has seemed far more willing to help a woman get the abortion rather than interested in following the law.

I have also stated numerous times that I truly believe that if this nurse is guilty (and I have been careful to always state that this being a fraud is possible), I have no problem believing that she thought she was acting in the best interest of the girl in question....rather than evilly plotting to get a 13-year old girl "cleaned up" and ready to go back to her 31-year old boyfriend.

Please be careful with what assumptions you toss around here...far too many people are doing that on this thread and it just makes people look silly.

What I have stated and asked numerous times with little avail...is what do we care more about? Easy access to abortion for all or following laws that were set up to protect children and catch and prosecute sexual offenders?

What if this nurse WAS sending a 13 year old back to have more sex with a 31 year old man? Even if she believed she was doing the right thing...does she have the authority to make that call?

Are these laws antiquated or unworkable and need to be changed to be more effective? Should we re-examine at what age young women are having sex and not be so quick to slap a statutory rape charge on cases? Should Planned Parenthood be re-examining their means of ascertaining that their staff is following the law?

These, I think, are interesting questions that this tape has spawned....

ya like if we made the age of consent 12..then it could be on the up and up...that would be great....

 

[Valerie]

[youtube]yr-cJZrBlzE[/youtube]

Speaking of Planned Parenthood, did you see the most recent controversy?

From yesterday's news:
FOXNews.com - Planned Parenthood Gift Certificates Could Be Used for Deadly Purposes - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

A number of Planned Parenthood clinics in Indiana and Illinois are offering gift certificates for their services this Christmas.

Officials say the vouchers enable people to give their loved ones "the gift of life" — that would help pay for annual checkups and birth control — but also can be used for abortions.

Chrystal Struben-Hall with Planned Parenthood of Indiana said the idea is a response to economic woes that have forced many women to put health care at the bottom of their to-do list.

"People are making really tough decisions about putting gas in their car and food on their table," Struben-Hall said.

Planned Parenthood said the stocking-stuffers — that range in value from $25 to $100 and can be ordered online — are redeemable for health services at clinics throughout the two states and can go to any service offered. "We decided not to put restrictions on the gift certificates, so it’s for whatever people feel they need the services for most," Struben-Hall said.

A number of religious and pro-life groups are outraged, saying that at a time when millions are preparing to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, Planned Parenthood is offering a gift that could fund an abortion.

 

[KittenKoder]

The problem with the whole "Age of Consent" is that it creates only a divide and opens the way for innocent people to be harmed and many guilty people to be let go free just because of a line in the sand. Either they need to detail it more or put more effort into investigation. One such way would be that anyone under 18 could consent to someone no more or less than 5 years of age from them. Of course that would need work but it's the general idea, and would avoid a case such as Gem's example.

 

[KittenKoder]

Speaking of Planned Parenthood, did you see the most recent controversy?

From yesterday's news:
FOXNews.com - Planned Parenthood Gift Certificates Could Be Used for Deadly Purposes - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

Any and ALL medical practices and drugs can be and ARE abused quite regularly. You do know there are easier and cheaper ways for women to get abortions without even a doctor present, and they are just as safe. They have been in use for centuries, at least with a doc option they can be regulated when needed better.

 

[Silence]

The problem with the whole "Age of Consent" is that it creates only a divide and opens the way for innocent people to be harmed and many guilty people to be let go free just because of a line in the sand. Either they need to detail it more or put more effort into investigation. One such way would be that anyone under 18 could consent to someone no more or less than 5 years of age from them. Of course that would need work but it's the general idea, and would avoid a case such as Gem's example.

I think a 5 year gap is too wide. The rule I have for my daughter is she's not allowed to date a boy that is more than 2 years older than she is until she reaches the age of 18. She's 14 now so she can't date anyone older than 16 and it goes from there. When she is 18 and legally an adult she can date whoever she wants. But there is no earthly reason for a 20 year old to date a 15 year old IMO.

Personally, I think too many kids think sex is no big deal. We need to get back to educating our children that sex is the most intimate contact you can have with another person, outside of giving birth to them, and that it shouldn't just be random and without meaning.

I tend to believe that the video in question was heavily edited to make it present the story they wanted. otherwise there would've been no need for the multiple edits. The Right to Life organization has an agenda to push and they'll do it anyway they can, even if it's dishonest.

 

[Valerie]

Any and ALL medical practices and drugs can be and ARE abused quite regularly. You do know there are easier and cheaper ways for women to get abortions without even a doctor present, and they are just as safe. They have been in use for centuries, at least with a doc option they can be regulated when needed better.

When I saw this story on the news last night, it made me cringe. I am pro-choice and I am NOT anti Planned Parenthood. I am also a Catholic, who can understand people taking offense to PP highlighting these certificates as Christmas gifts. Why not just offer them year round? It seems to just taunt the Pro-Life Christians and feed into the negative notions expressed by a few people earlier in this thread.

 

[Agnapostate]

No, it doesn't. This is exactly how police agencies investigate sales to underaged minors. They have individuals POSE as an underaged minor with either fraudulent or no identification, and determine whether the bar serves them or not. If the bartender serves the person who is acting in an underaged role, he/she can be fined in the thousands of dollars.

In this instance, the reporter, who probably looked quite young, gave a false age and story to determine how the planned parenthood staff handled her. This is an entirely valid way to test their compliance with the mandatory report laws, and their professionalism.

For the record: EPIC FAIL.

I was hired to be a decoy. The joke was on the Alcohol Beverage Control unit that I was assigned to, as I tipped off establishments that sold alcohol that we would be swinging by due to my ideological opposition to the drinking age. The ABC officer was shocked and insisted that they had never had a 100% failure rate before.

I wonder if I'll ever be charged with obstruction of justice...I probably will after I'm charged for committing a felony of voter fraud by registering to vote while underage.

At any rate, the reference might be to the recording devices that are used in such investigations, as it's illegal in some states to create an audio recording of persons without their full knowledge and consent.

 

[Valerie]

Gift certificates for
Planned Parenthood
Last Edited: Wednesday, 26 Nov 2008, 4:53 AM EST
Created On: Tuesday, 25 Nov 2008, 7:27 PM EST


"They can be seen for sexually transmitted disease screenings, HIV tests and general prostate exams and those kinds of things," said Struben-Hall.

Some Hoosiers 24-Hour News 8 talked to asked if the gift certificates could be used towards abortions. The answer is yes. But, Planned Parenthood said that's not the purpose of the gift certificates.

Struben-Hall said, "They really are intended for preventative healthcare. We decided not to put restrictions on the gift certificates so it's for whatever people feel they need the services for most."


Gift certificates for Planned Parenthood

Oh, now I see Eots already posted this story. I hadn't read the entire thread yet.

 

[Agnapostate]

I had most of my early sexual experiences at church functions.

Damn, somebody like me!

 

[Steerpike]

I can understand the anger over this, but I can also see another side of it.

Lets say this was genuine. A 13 year old girl claims to be pregnant by a 31 year old man. Now, clearly that is a crime under law.
The woman working for PP has one of two options:

1.) Ignore this and help the girl to obtain an abortion.
2.) Report it, thus notifing the child's parents.

In notifying the parents, the child is stripped of her right to choose abortion. That decision now lies with the parents of that child.

Is it fair for parents to decide whether having a child is in their daughter's best interests? Should parents have the right to control their children in such a way as to remove any reproductive choice from them?

I imagine the woman at PP was also opposed to the parental consent law and was attempting to help the woman/girl obtain an abortion without having to seek parental permission.

Imagine if a young girl came to PP, pregnant and wanting an abortion. Imagine if there was a parental consent law in that State. Lets say the child tells you that she is too afraid to tell her parents she is pregnant, as they are likely to force her to bear her child against her will. What do you do? Do you knowingly break the law to protect the child from her parents, or do you notify her parents and hope that they allow her to make her own choices?

I suspect that the issue of parental consent was a huge factor for the worker in deciding not to report the case to the appropriate authorities.

This whole line of reasoning fails as a rationale. At the age of 13, any medical procedure should involve parental knowledge.

 

[Valerie]

This whole line of reasoning fails as a rationale. At the age of 13, any medical procedure should involve parental knowledge.

I agree. It is not up to a nurse or PP to decide what is legal.

 

[Amanda]

This whole line of reasoning fails as a rationale. At the age of 13, any medical procedure should involve parental knowledge.

Should it? No matter what?

Does this hold true in those cases where a child needs medical treatment and the parents decide to pray instead?

 

[Ravi]

Speaking of Planned Parenthood, did you see the most recent controversy?

From yesterday's news:
FOXNews.com - Planned Parenthood Gift Certificates Could Be Used for Deadly Purposes - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

I don't know why, but this cracks me up. Kind of a tacky gift, but I can't see anything wrong with it. If you don't want to buy one, don't.

 

[Steerpike]

Should it? No matter what?

Does this hold true in those cases where a child needs medical treatment and the parents decide to pray instead?

Of course. Parents should have knowledge of the procedure being undertaken.

 

[Amanda]

The age of consent questions is really hard. I think that for some it should be older and for some younger but that really doesn't matter anyway except for things like voting or buying liquor... things that are actually somewhat regulatable.

You really can't control how old someone is when they have sex. I was kissing boys and doing other mildly sexual things when I was 11. A few years later I was having sex. And it wasn't like I was the only one. I think a lot of people confuse the issue by asking if kids should be doing it or not. It isn't a matter of should or shouldn't. Kids will, so what are you doing to do about it? Are you going to pretend abstinence is really viable and not have condoms be available without parental consent? How silly do you want to be about it?

I don't have any answers, I'm just giving a report from the front lines, take it for what it's worth.