Philosophy of Time.

[Ringtone]

We know that time has some funny properties like time dilation where clocks in motion will read differently if there is a velocity difference between the two clocks. That is physical and can be measured.

Time perception is different. That is relative to each person, how old they are, what they are doing, and what they are planning to do. If you are a child, time seems to move more slowly than if you are older. That may be due to time units being a larger fraction of your life span when you are young. Or it may be due to the plasticity of a young mind vs a older mind.

There is the phenomenon of "time flying when you are having fun". And time dragging when you are in a bad or boring situation. That seems as real as time dilation.

There is time management, which is our attempt to get more tasks completed within some future time period.

As for time being linear vs a circle IMO it has to be linear. It makes for cool movies to be able to travel forward or backward in time but the paradoxes time travel creates don't make sense.

Thank you, MarathonMike, for your beautiful and insightful post. I'm well aware of the various physical actualities of time in terms of speed and perspective, and your observation regarding the perception of time relative to experience and age, your thesis regarding the direction and movement of time, with which I agree, are sucient and eloquent. Masterfully done.

 

[MarathonMike]

We know that time has some funny properties like time dilation where clocks in motion will read differently if there is a velocity difference between the two clocks. That is physical and can be measured.

Time perception is different. That is relative to each person, how old they are, what they are doing, and what they are planning to do. If you are a child, time seems to move more slowly than if you are older. That may be due to time units being a larger fraction of your life span when you are young. Or it may be due to the plasticity of a young mind vs a older mind.

There is the phenomenon of "time flying when you are having fun". And time dragging when you are in a bad or boring situation. That seems as real as time dilation.

There is time management, which is our attempt to get more tasks completed within some future time period.

As for time being linear vs a circle IMO it has to be linear. It makes for cool movies to be able to travel forward or backward in time but the paradoxes time travel creates don't make sense.

Thank you, MarathonMike, for your beautiful and insightful post. I'm well aware of the various physical actualities of time in terms of speed and perspective, and your observation regarding the perception of time relative to experience and age, your thesis regarding the direction and movement of time, with which I agree, are sucient and eloquent. Masterfully done.

Much appreciated Ringtone.

 

[Mindful]

 

[Ringtone]

Understanding time is already mind bobbling enough, really. I've always believed that God, who lives and moves in the eternal now, abides with us in heaven while somehow, simultaneously, maintaining a sense of linear time for us wherein we do not experience physical change, but linear being and memory. Ultimately, time, psychologically, for us, is the linear flow of memory, wherein the future both entails fulfilments of past visions of expectations and surprises.

 

[DOTR]

All animals except humans live in a continual present, with no sense of the temporal distinctions of past, present and future. Our consciousness of time is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the true nature of time. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?

Philosophy of Time – Exactly What Is Time?

Ill say this..its absolutely true that time passes faster as you age.

 

[luchitociencia]

Time is just a measure, same as it is weight, volume, longitude, etc.

There is not an objective perception of time because time is just a concept.

One of the greatest frauds in science history is the infamous "dilatation of time" where malfunction of clocks has been taken as a magical behavior of a subjective time affected by the speed of objects. But the fantasy is going away and relativity and quantum mechanics with reference to time are superfluous ideas which are taken less seriously each day.

We do not even perceive time in subjective mode. We do have REMEMBRANCES of events, and we have IMAGINARY visions of what we might expect to come, but this is a behavior in our brain, nothing related to a universal flowing of time, which is not physically real at all.

We get use to routine, and we can wake up sharp at 6:00 am everyday, but this is not because a perception of time but a body used to wake up at the same time everyday.

The philosophy of time as flowing is just an illusion. When it takes 21 hours going from DC to Florida having breaks on Interstate 95, reality is that we have compared our traveling going South with the rotation of earth in reference to the Sun. That's all. That perception and comparison of both motions, ours and the earth's is what we call "time".

Even the bible indirectly defines time as such a comparison, when in the first days it is told for man to use the motion of the heavenly bodies as reference to set days and seasons. And that is exactly what we do, we use the motion of earth, moon and sun to set time.

With the atomic clock, we use the vibration frequency motion of the atom of Cesium to compare it with other motion or decay of particles and bodies.

Time, the eternal concept, the sure measure, the subjective forever, is a great tool, but that is the far time is about. The whole properties and characteristics like flowing and dilatation of time are just infantile thoughts invented in the past.

Today, we know time is just a concept. That's all.

 

[percysunshine]

After reading this thread, I have come to the conclusion that Mindful is a Labrador retriever with access to a laptop computer.

 

[Mindful]

After reading this thread, I have come to the conclusion that Mindful is a Labrador retriever with access to a laptop computer.

Good for you. You must feel so puffed up, with your armchair cyber pyscho analysis.

I prefer cats.

Fetch.

 

[PK1]

Time is just a measure, same as it is weight, volume, longitude, etc.

There is not an objective perception of time because time is just a concept.

One of the greatest frauds in science history is the infamous "dilatation of time" where malfunction of clocks has been taken as a magical behavior of a subjective time affected by the speed of objects. But the fantasy is going away and relativity and quantum mechanics with reference to time are superfluous ideas which are taken less seriously each day.

We do not even perceive time in subjective mode. We do have REMEMBRANCES of events, and we have IMAGINARY visions of what we might expect to come, but this is a behavior in our brain, nothing related to a universal flowing of time, which is not physically real at all.

We get use to routine, and we can wake up sharp at 6:00 am everyday, but this is not because a perception of time but a body used to wake up at the same time everyday.

The philosophy of time as flowing is just an illusion. When it takes 21 hours going from DC to Florida having breaks on Interstate 95, reality is that we have compared our traveling going South with the rotation of earth in reference to the Sun. That's all. That perception and comparison of both motions, ours and the earth's is what we call "time".

Even the bible indirectly defines time as such a comparison, when in the first days it is told for man to use the motion of the heavenly bodies as reference to set days and seasons. And that is exactly what we do, we use the motion of earth, moon and sun to set time.

With the atomic clock, we use the vibration frequency motion of the atom of Cesium to compare it with other motion or decay of particles and bodies.

Time, the eternal concept, the sure measure, the subjective forever, is a great tool, but that is the far time is about. The whole properties and characteristics like flowing and dilatation of time are just infantile thoughts invented in the past.

Today, we know time is just a concept. That's all.

Time is a concept from various angles.
Time is foremost a human concept associated with our perceptions within our ecologies & cultures.

Can we agree that the main perception is that time represents a directional “flow” of effects preceded by causes in a “process” that requires some “force”?

We as individuals have “objective” perceptions within social settings (clock time) and subjective/personal perceptions.
.

 

[luchitociencia]

Time is a concept from various angles.
Time is foremost a human concept associated with our perceptions within our ecologies & cultures.

Can we agree that the main perception is that time represents a directional “flow” of effects preceded by causes in a “process” that requires some “force”?

That scenario can be disregarded.

Lets say, you are aging, everything around you changes. There are wars, year seasons, new children in your family, new presidents, new job, new TV programs, new scientific discoveries, etc. All of these, you noticed happened "thru the years". Lets say, you observed all of the above in a 45 years period.

In your perception, guided by the idea of "one event after another" to which you can name it as "chronological order", the illusion of motion tricked you. For you, "hours" passed by, when in reality was the rotation of earth doing its routine revolving.

What for you was the "passing of years" in reality is just the routine orbit of our planet around the Sun. Never going "anywhere else" but going in circles continually.

What for you is being 45 years old, in reality, physically speaking, it is you traveling 45 times around the Sun.

Then, the phrase, "the US independence was declared 244 years ago" you replaced it by "the US independence was declared 244 rounds around the sun before this last one."

No "special, secret, unknown force" required.

Just living in base of physical reality.

 

[PK1]

Time is a concept from various angles.
Time is foremost a human concept associated with our perceptions within our ecologies & cultures.

Can we agree that the main perception is that time represents a directional “flow” of effects preceded by causes in a “process” that requires some “force”?

That scenario can be disregarded.

Lets say, you are aging, everything around you changes. There are wars, year seasons, new children in your family, new presidents, new job, new TV programs, new scientific discoveries, etc. All of these, you noticed happened "thru the years". Lets say, you observed all of the above in a 45 years period.

In your perception, guided by the idea of "one event after another" to which you can name it as "chronological order", the illusion of motion tricked you. For you, "hours" passed by, when in reality was the rotation of earth doing its routine revolving.

What for you was the "passing of years" in reality is just the routine orbit of our planet around the Sun. Never going "anywhere else" but going in circles continually.

What for you is being 45 years old, in reality, physically speaking, it is you traveling 45 times around the Sun.

Then, the phrase, "the US independence was declared 244 years ago" you replaced it by "the US independence was declared 244 rounds around the sun before this last one."

No "special, secret, unknown force" required.

Just living in base of physical reality.

It appears that you validated my comments.
The “objective” human perception of time (by multiple humans) is defined as “1 year” = 1 rotation of earth around the sun.
That rotation is unidirectional, as is time, and the rotation is due to gravitational force.

In addition, there is a “subjective” perception of time (for human & non-human INDIVIDUAL ANIMALS) that reflects their cognitive activity & awareness. For example, a 45-yr-old may perceive the past year as having gone by quickly, while a 5-yr-old may perceive the past year in much “slower” terms, having had a more active set of learning experiences.

Time is RELATIVE, both astro-physically and psychologically.
.

 

[luchitociencia]

It appears that you validated my comments.
The “objective” human perception of time (by multiple humans) is defined as “1 year” = 1 rotation of earth around the sun.

That is not a perception of time but perception of motion. The planet moving around the sun.

That rotation is unidirectional, as is time, and the rotation is due to gravitational force.

Time is subjective and by such time lacks of motion

In addition, there is a “subjective” perception of time (for human & non-human INDIVIDUAL ANIMALS) that reflects their cognitive activity & awareness. For example, a 45-yr-old may perceive the past year as having gone by quickly, while a 5-yr-old may perceive the past year in much “slower” terms, having had a more active set of learning experiences.

Those factors are not what cause the illusion of fast and slow moving of the clock needles.

Again, such is by observation of motion regardless of your age.

You are in your office very busy and you will have the impression the day lasted less, but you are without anything to do, bored, and the needle of the clock will appear foryou that runs so slooooowwww.

Time is RELATIVE, both astro-physically and psychologically.
.

No. Time is just a measure and other than that is just misinterpretation of reality, ignorance, fantasy, etc.

 

[Dalia]

Time does not exist just like the past and the future, only the present exists otherwise it is the invention of man.

 

[gipper]

I've often wondered about

Ageing

Ageing and old age are aspects of time we are all familiar with.
Ageing (spelled aging in American English) is a constant reminder of the passage of time. The process, and even the purpose, of ageing is a question that has intrigued and puzzled scientists for centuries, although modern science is finally beginning to throw some light on the subject.

^ From that site.

Time might not mean as much if our life spans were greatly extended. Scientists are working on this and some think humans could live for hundreds of years.

This sciencetist dedicated his book to his great great great great great great great grandchildren and stated he looks forward to meeting them.

 

[Mindful]

I've often wondered about

Ageing

Ageing and old age are aspects of time we are all familiar with.
Ageing (spelled aging in American English) is a constant reminder of the passage of time. The process, and even the purpose, of ageing is a question that has intrigued and puzzled scientists for centuries, although modern science is finally beginning to throw some light on the subject.

^ From that site.

Time might not mean as much if our life spans were greatly extended. Scientists are working on this and some think humans could live for hundreds of years.

This sciencetist dedicated his book to his great great great great great great great grandchildren and stated he looks forward to meeting them.

They’ll have to get working on those cells.

 

[Missourian]

Try this one...

The Real Rules for Time Travelers

Time travel may in fact be possible, but it wouldn't work like in Back to the Future. (For one thing, you don't have worry about your parents failing to create you — you already exist.)

www.discovermagazine.com

 

[petro]

Try this one...

The Real Rules for Time Travelers

Time travel may in fact be possible, but it wouldn't work like in Back to the Future. (For one thing, you don't have worry about your parents failing to create you — you already exist.)

www.discovermagazine.com

Interesting. But, my brain feels like a pretzel and now I have a headache.

 

[Missourian]

Try this one...

The Real Rules for Time Travelers

Time travel may in fact be possible, but it wouldn't work like in Back to the Future. (For one thing, you don't have worry about your parents failing to create you — you already exist.)

www.discovermagazine.com

Interesting. But, my brain feels like a pretzel and now I have a headache.

That's what happened to me too...same thing happens when I try to visualize eternity or infinite space.

 

[Dick Foster]

All animals except humans live in a continual present, with no sense of the temporal distinctions of past, present and future. Our consciousness of time is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the true nature of time. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?

Philosophy of Time – Exactly What Is Time?

Bullshit, we have no way of knowing what animals think or feel. It's our own idiotic arrogance making us stupid.
For example anyone that thinks a dog doesn't care about eating the same old dry kibble shit day in and day out knows not one damn thing about dogs and likely shouldn't be allowed to have one. Or an asshole who keeps them chained up outside in cold winter weather should be first horse whipped then chained up outside in the cold winter weather.

 

[petro]

All animals except humans live in a continual present, with no sense of the temporal distinctions of past, present and future. Our consciousness of time is therefore one of the most important distinguishing features of humankind, and one of the things that truly separates us from the lower animals. It comes as no surprise, then, that from time immemorial, philosophers, teachers and theologians have speculated on the true nature of time. Does time have a substance and, if so, what is it made of? How do we know that time really exists? Does time have a beginning and an end? Is it a straight line or a circle?

Philosophy of Time – Exactly What Is Time?

Bullshit, we have no way of knowing what animals think or feel. It's our own idiotic arrogance making us stupid.
For example anyone that thinks a dog doesn't care about eating the same old dry kibble shit day in and day out knows not one damn thing about dogs and likely shouldn't be allowed to have one. Or an asshole who keeps them chained up outside in cold winter weather should be first horse whipped then chained up outside in the cold winter weather.

Could be very likely the Cetaceans of the ocean are debating the very same topic. They have been around far longer with advanced brains than us primates. Much documentation of intelligence and emotion, including empathy in the animal world.
We know many bird species that play, crows that can reason and make a simple tool. Figure out puzzles using logic over repetition.
Our assumption of what defines intelligence is biased and misguided.