Pepper-Spray by a Cruel and Cowardly NYC Cop

[Xchel]

Police reopened the Brooklyn Bridge Saturday evening after more than 700 anti-Wall Street protesters were arrested for blocking traffic lanes and attempting an unauthorized march across the span.

why not just get a permit?

 

[editec]

Police reopened the Brooklyn Bridge Saturday evening after more than 700 anti-Wall Street protesters were arrested for blocking traffic lanes and attempting an unauthorized march across the span.

why not just get a permit?

They probably couldn't have gotten one.

It is, after all, a main artary for traffic.

Besides they wanted to be a pain in everybody's asses.

They get more press that way.

 

[Xchel]

The protest never became violent

that is certainly the way it seems the media has described it.

I haven't seen that.

‘Occupy Wall Street’ Protests Turn Violent; Video Shows Police Macing Women - ABC News

Dozens of Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested | 7online.com

'Occupy Wall Street' protest turns chaotic and violent (Roundup) - Security

Occupy Wall Street March Turns Violent | Davids Camera Craft

Wall St. inequality protest turns violent - UPI.com

and those are but a few of the headlines and all of them use in their headline either the word violent or violence.

 

[Katzndogz]

You can't get a permit to block traffic. You especially can't get a permit to block traffic on a bridge.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck5cREJcYdc&feature=feedu]OTHER: Occupy Brooklyn Bridge??? - YouTube[/ame]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1001/wallstreet.html

 

[Intense]

Police reopened the Brooklyn Bridge Saturday evening after more than 700 anti-Wall Street protesters were arrested for blocking traffic lanes and attempting an unauthorized march across the span.

why not just get a permit?

There is no Permit to Blockade. They knew what they were doing. The Key here is to keep it non violent, and not resist arrest.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Does this mean anything? I don't know just interesting that they happen to be there while the protest was going on
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OICKFTjydc&feature=feedu]Occupy Wall Street Chemical Biological Response Units Confirmed on New York Streets - YouTube[/ame]

Government Agents at OccupyWallstreeet
CERTO OCCULTIS HOSTIS
Chemical Biological Incident Response Force

The Chemical Biological Incident Response Force (CBIRF) is a unit in the United States Marine Corps responsible for countering the effects of a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, or high-yield explosive (CBRNE) incident. They were activated in April 1996 by General Charles C. Krulak, then Commandant of the Marine Corps. The unit is based at Indian Head Naval Surface Warfare Center in Indian Head, Maryland and fall under the command of the II Marine Expeditionary Force.

 

[Xchel]

Intense, if you get a permit then you don't worry about arrest and the media is already invited and the police protect you. Disrupting someone else's freedoms is always wrong.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The truther movement at the wall.

Roseanne Barr with We Are Change at Occupy Wall Street - YouTube

 

[Intense]

Intense, if you get a permit then you don't worry about arrest and the media is already invited and the police protect you. Disrupting someone else's freedoms is always wrong.

Yes and know. You are missing part of the equation. Protest is Protest. That is not in dispute. Keep it legal, and you expect to be treated Civilly. Non-Violent Civil Disobedience, is be definition, breaking the Law. It is a strategy that puts the participants at risk. Part of the purpose is to strain or overwhelm the opposition. We are discussing 2 different types of Action. Often coordinated and Joint. Don't loose sight of that. Civil Disobedience is an Intentional Act, for which, one is willing to suffer the consequences. The Plead may be Defensive Necessity, Guilty, or Nolo contendere ( Nolo contendere - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) . These Protesters want the Arrests and Citations to draw attention.

 

[Dragon]

Xchel, I'm with Intense here. Part of the strategy of nonviolent civil disobedience is to break the law, to refuse to obey. One expects the authorities to respond, to strike back. The idea is to make the other side look bad, to focus attention on one's own cause, and to make people wake up and think. That is more effectively accomplished by a non-decorous, disobedient protest that results in violent action by the other side, than it is by one that stays within the lines and obeys the law.

This was what was done by Gandhi when he called on thousands of his followers to go to the sea and make salt in violation of the British law that protected the monopoly of British salt-makers. It's what was done by the Civil Rights protesters when they marched and were hit with fire hoses and police dogs. It's what was done by the anti-Vietnam War protesters when they occupied government buildings and were dragged out and arrested.

There's a strategy on the other side, too, in dealing with nonviolent protests, which is to use the very minimum of force necessary to end the disruption of traffic or whatever and never give in to personal pique or use unwarranted force. The cop who pepper-sprayed those young women made a tactical mistake. His use of force was clearly excessive and unnecessary; the video shows that. That kind of thing is guaranteed to make people who see it sympathetic to the protesters and outraged at the police, unless they're already so far in the other side's pocket that they're a lost cause. I don't think it's any accident that after the incident the participation in the protest soared. Those poor women who suffered for the cause did it a great service. In this incident, the protesters won.

 

[Intense]

Xchel, I'm with Intense here. Part of the strategy of nonviolent civil disobedience is to break the law, to refuse to obey. One expects the authorities to respond, to strike back. The idea is to make the other side look bad, to focus attention on one's own cause, and to make people wake up and think. That is more effectively accomplished by a non-decorous, disobedient protest that results in violent action by the other side, than it is by one that stays within the lines and obeys the law.

This was what was done by Gandhi when he called on thousands of his followers to go to the sea and make salt in violation of the British law that protected the monopoly of British salt-makers. It's what was done by the Civil Rights protesters when they marched and were hit with fire hoses and police dogs. It's what was done by the anti-Vietnam War protesters when they occupied government buildings and were dragged out and arrested.

There's a strategy on the other side, too, in dealing with nonviolent protests, which is to use the very minimum of force necessary to end the disruption of traffic or whatever and never give in to personal pique or use unwarranted force. The cop who pepper-sprayed those young women made a tactical mistake. His use of force was clearly excessive and unnecessary; the video shows that. That kind of thing is guaranteed to make people who see it sympathetic to the protesters and outraged at the police, unless they're already so far in the other side's pocket that they're a lost cause. I don't think it's any accident that after the incident the participation in the protest soared. Those poor women who suffered for the cause did it a great service. In this incident, the protesters won.

The Idea is to make the other side Think, to Question It's position, to stress It's reserves, to get It's attention, to influence change.

 

[Xchel]

No the idea is to violate other people's rights which is wrong when you want to exert your right to free speech you don't trample on other people's rights...

If the idea is to break the law and become a criminal do not complain when you are treated just like a criminal and get pepper sprayed.

 

[blu]

the cop should be decapitated and his head rode around NYC

 

[peach174]

The yahoo's should be rounded up jailed for a few days and fined.
This protest is doing nothing but costing the Tax payers of N.Y. City more money.

 

[Dragon]

No the idea is to violate other people's rights which is wrong when you want to exert your right to free speech you don't trample on other people's rights...

If the idea is to break the law and become a criminal do not complain when you are treated just like a criminal and get pepper sprayed.

Except that complaining about it is part and parcel of making use of it. Since the protesters aren't trying to use physical force to overthrow the system, it's all about hearts and minds.

And besides, the use of pepper spray in that instance WAS improper use of force, so the complaint is legitimate. You will not see complaints about police arresting people who are breaking the law.

 

[Intense]

No the idea is to violate other people's rights which is wrong when you want to exert your right to free speech you don't trample on other people's rights...

If the idea is to break the law and become a criminal do not complain when you are treated just like a criminal and get pepper sprayed.

Tell that to John Locke, James Madison, Henry David Thoreau, Martin Luther King, and Gandhi. You have it wrong, at least in part. You are also confusing Legitimate Action Groups with Anarchists.

Thoreau on Civil Disobedience in regard to Slavery.

[5] If the injustice is part of the necessary friction of the machine of government, let it go, let it go; perchance it will wear smooth — certainly the machine will wear out. If the injustice has a spring, or a pulley, or a rope, or a crank, exclusively for itself, then perhaps you may consider whether the remedy will not be worse than the evil; but if it is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law. Let your life be a counter friction to stop the machine. What I have to do is to see, at any rate, that I do not lend myself to the wrong which I condemn.

[6] As for adopting the ways which the State has provided for remedying the evil, I know not of such ways. They take too much time, and a man's life will be gone. I have other affairs to attend to. I came into this world, not chiefly to make this a good place to live in, but to live in it, be it good or bad. A man has not everything to do, but something; and because he cannot do everything, it is not necessary that he should do something wrong. It is not my business to be petitioning the Governor or the Legislature any more than it is theirs to petition me; and if they should not hear my petition, what should I do then? But in this case the State has provided no way; its very Constitution is the evil. This may seem to be harsh and stubborn and unconciliatory; but it is to treat with the utmost kindness and consideration the only spirit that can appreciate or deserves it. So is an change for the better, like birth and death which convulse the body.

[7] I do not hesitate to say, that those who call themselves Abolitionists should at once effectually withdraw their support, both in person and property, from the government of Massachusetts, and not wait till they constitute a majority of one, before they suffer the right to prevail through them. I think that it is enough if they have God on their side, without waiting for that other one. Moreover, any man more right than his neighbors constitutes a majority of one already.

Thoreau's Civil Disobedience - 2

 

[Oldstyle]

No the idea is to violate other people's rights which is wrong when you want to exert your right to free speech you don't trample on other people's rights...

If the idea is to break the law and become a criminal do not complain when you are treated just like a criminal and get pepper sprayed.

Except that complaining about it is part and parcel of making use of it. Since the protesters aren't trying to use physical force to overthrow the system, it's all about hearts and minds.

And besides, the use of pepper spray in that instance WAS improper use of force, so the complaint is legitimate. You will not see complaints about police arresting people who are breaking the law.

Now that's a laughable statement, Dragon. You would have seen complaints about the police whether pepper spray was used or not. It's part of the modern day activist's playbook. Or have you forgotten Lawrence O'Donnell's rant about the police slamming a protester's head into a parked Volvo (for some reason the fact it was a Volvo seems to have some special meaning to Lawrence) when in fact that never happened. The protesters that were arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge complained that nobody told them they would be arrested if they blocked the roadway. They lie. They knew very well that they would be arrested for leaving the pedestrian walkway. So they broke the law and then immediately complained that those mean police people were picking on them...and you know what? They'll get some main stream media coverage that defends their complaints because that's how it works these days.

 

[Dragon]

Now that's a laughable statement, Dragon. You would have seen complaints about the police whether pepper spray was used or not. It's part of the modern day activist's playbook.

LOL all right, that actually occurred to me as I was typing those words. However, it does help that in this case the complaints are quite obviously legitimate.

But yes, that's all part of the dynamic. Arrests are normal and just the police doing their jobs, police brutality at some point is to be expected even though it's NOT normal or the police just doing their jobs, and yes, of course they'll complain about it because that, too, is part of the dialog.

Here's an interesting development, not just what the guy is talking about in this video but also one thing he says in particular:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp-eapYpL8c]Occupy Wallstreet Update! The Marines are Coming to PROTECT the Protesters - YouTube[/ame]

"I'm a Tea Party patriot, and I may not agree with all the politics of these young people, but I agree with and I support the fact that Wall Street has way too much influence on Washington, D.C. We all need to stand together against this corruption."

This is a theme where the leftist insurgency (which is demonstrated in Occupy Wall Street as well as the earlier protests in Wisconsin) and the Tea Party have common ground.

 

[Oldstyle]

Now that's a laughable statement, Dragon. You would have seen complaints about the police whether pepper spray was used or not. It's part of the modern day activist's playbook.

LOL all right, that actually occurred to me as I was typing those words. However, it does help that in this case the complaints are quite obviously legitimate.

But yes, that's all part of the dynamic. Arrests are normal and just the police doing their jobs, police brutality at some point is to be expected even though it's NOT normal or the police just doing their jobs, and yes, of course they'll complain about it because that, too, is part of the dialog.

Here's an interesting development, not just what the guy is talking about in this video but also one thing he says in particular:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp-eapYpL8c]Occupy Wallstreet Update! The Marines are Coming to PROTECT the Protesters - YouTube[/ame]

"I'm a Tea Party patriot, and I may not agree with all the politics of these young people, but I agree with and I support the fact that Wall Street has way too much influence on Washington, D.C. We all need to stand together against this corruption."

This is a theme where the leftist insurgency (which is demonstrated in Occupy Wall Street as well as the earlier protests in Wisconsin) and the Tea Party have common ground.

But what are those alleged Marines going to protect protesters from? The police aren't arresting activists for no cause...they are arresting them because the activists WANT to be arrested for the publicity. So are the Marines going to keep the marchers from breaking the law in the first place? The Marine quoted in that blog says that they are sworn to uphold the Constitution...how does helping protesters break the law uphold the Constitution? Sorry, I don't see it. Are they going to physically intercede when the police DO arrest demonstrators?

As for what the leftist insurgency and the Tea Party have in common? Well, it appears that people in the Tea Party support the right to protest even when they don't agree with the reason for the protest. What's rather ironic is that there has been ZERO support by the left for the Tea Party's right to hold protests. Progressives and the main stream media have portrayed peaceful Tea Party protests as an abomination and accused the people attending them of being racist, inbred hicks.