People Are Not Born Gay

[Ellipsis]

Maybe for you.

But to Christians, when they finally understand what Matthew 19:12 means it is a revelation and a relief to know that some are born, some are made and it is up to God to know things we can't control:

King James Bible
For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Perfect example, thank you. That passage has nothing to do with homosexuality.

The rules in the bible against same-sex relations were laws set forth for Israel. If you aren't a Jew and physically in Israel, those laws do not apply to you.

 

[Lilah]

Polygamy is legal in Utah. Do your research before you attempt to show off your glow.

Being legally married to more than one person is not legal in Utah.

Has anyone made that known to the men in Arizona City?

What is this "Arizona City" you speak of?


*****************************************

Just to clarify, it is legal for someone to consider themselves in a polygamous relationship more than one "partner" or "spritual wives". However that is not the same think as being legally married to more than one spouse.


>>>>

Polygamy Is Legal In Utah, For Now. A federal judge issued a final ruling Wednesday in the so-called Sister Wives case, handing the stars of the TLC show a resounding victory. The Brown family, who rose to prominence on the TLC reality show “Sister Wives.”
Mea Culpa; should have been Colorado City, Arizona.

Lilah, look up polygamy and bigamy, and get back to us. You don't understand the terms and how the law applies to them.

Please give us your synopsis, Your Honor.

 

[Vigilante]

Seems the Mayor's wife is PROOF it's a LIFE STYLE CHOICE!!!

Hi Vigilante
Ellipsis threw some interesting language into the ring,
saying that the type of conditions that can change
should be specified as "sex-related stress disorders"

Do you like that term?

So if she was just experiencing "sex-related stress disorders"
and was healed/recovered from that, then she can restore
her natural orientation which in her case was ALWAYS heterosexual as naturally born,
and she was NEVER TRULY lesbian to begin with if this was unnaturally induced by stress disorders.

Are you okay with that term?

If we can agree on separate terms for the two groups,
at least we can stop arguing the other "doesn't exist."

I believe the mayor's wife, on many occasions called herself a lesbian, and now POOOF!! she's NOT!...She said she was in 1979...

It must be wonderful to be married to a guy like Bill that fucked her STRAIGHT! I'm impressed with that! It's about the only thing Billy has done correctly!!

 

[emilynghiem]

Maybe for you.

But to Christians, when they finally understand what Matthew 19:12 means it is a revelation and a relief to know that some are born, some are made and it is up to God to know things we can't control:

King James Bible
For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Perfect example, thank you. That passage has nothing to do with homosexuality.

The rules in the bible against same-sex relations were laws set forth for Israel. If you aren't a Jew and physically in Israel, those laws do not apply to you.

You are taking that too literally.

In general it expresses a universal principle
that some conditions that would cause people not to marry and bear children
are born that way from the womb, and in others those conditions are man made.

Sorry I forget that if you are secular literalist, you will not get the broader spiritual meaning.

This passage has helped my friends understand and not be so judgmental
1. one friend is Christian and does not think homosexuality is natural or anything to be promoted and accepted
to him it is a choice and behavior choices that stray from the norm, and impose on others to force them to accept or else be ostracized as discriminating, don't get special privileges of protection that other people don't.
If you wear your hair purple, and get harassed for it, that's your choice. You don't go around passing laws protecting people who wear certain hair color and you certainly don't judge people for reacting to your purple hair you chose to display.

This passage in the Bible at least helped him to understand God alone may know
which cases are "sex-related stress disorders" that can change and which are "born homosexual that can't"

2. Another friend came OUT as transgender after giving up guilt and resentment
AFTER I explained how gay Christian churches use this passage to explain their spiritual path.
How they can be Christian and be gay or lesbian or transgender.

So it helped a friend come to peace and give up hiding behind a male appearance
when my friend really felt female in spirit and personality and longed to be "herself"

This passage helped with that healing and acceptance process.

So there is more to the Bible than just the literal historical context.

There are abstract and universal concepts
and an entire spiritual process that the Bible represents to people.

 

[emilynghiem]

Seems the Mayor's wife is PROOF it's a LIFE STYLE CHOICE!!!

Hi Vigilante
Ellipsis threw some interesting language into the ring,
saying that the type of conditions that can change
should be specified as "sex-related stress disorders"

Do you like that term?

So if she was just experiencing "sex-related stress disorders"
and was healed/recovered from that, then she can restore
her natural orientation which in her case was ALWAYS heterosexual as naturally born,
and she was NEVER TRULY lesbian to begin with if this was unnaturally induced by stress disorders.

Are you okay with that term?

If we can agree on separate terms for the two groups,
at least we can stop arguing the other "doesn't exist."

I believe the mayor's wife, on many occasions called herself a lesbian, and now POOOF!! she's NOT!...She said she was in 1979...

It must be wonderful to be married to a guy like Bill that fucked her STRAIGHT! I'm impressed with that! It's about the only thing Billy has done correctly!!

Well according to Inevitable she was never truly a lesbian to begin with.

She had to be born heterosexual, because you cannot be made heterosexual if you are truly homosexual,
and then went through this "sex-related stress disorder" that Ellipsis
refers to, which to her was the reason she had those attractions and relations.

Speaking of, I have not read Inevitable's posts for a while.
He is intellectually honest and open/transparent and articulate
and might help clarify the terms here so we can get on the same page.

I will PM him and ask him to chime in, if he is still around....

 

[Vigilante]

Seems the Mayor's wife is PROOF it's a LIFE STYLE CHOICE!!!

Hi Vigilante
Ellipsis threw some interesting language into the ring,
saying that the type of conditions that can change
should be specified as "sex-related stress disorders"

Do you like that term?

So if she was just experiencing "sex-related stress disorders"
and was healed/recovered from that, then she can restore
her natural orientation which in her case was ALWAYS heterosexual as naturally born,
and she was NEVER TRULY lesbian to begin with if this was unnaturally induced by stress disorders.

Are you okay with that term?

If we can agree on separate terms for the two groups,
at least we can stop arguing the other "doesn't exist."

I believe the mayor's wife, on many occasions called herself a lesbian, and now POOOF!! she's NOT!...She said she was in 1979...

It must be wonderful to be married to a guy like Bill that fucked her STRAIGHT! I'm impressed with that! It's about the only thing Billy has done correctly!!

Well according to Inevitable she was never truly a lesbian to begin with.

She had to be born heterosexual, because you cannot be made heterosexual if you are truly homosexual,
and then went through this "sex-related stress disorder" that Ellipsis
refers to, which to her was the reason she had those attractions and relations.

Well Billy Boy is 6'5" and PROBABLY has an overinflated ego in his pants... that could impress many a gay girl!.... Vibrators after a few years just don't cut it!

 

[PratchettFan]

There is nothing unnatural about homosexuality.

Dear PratchettFan does this description by Ellipsis
sound natural to you:

You're talking about correcting sex-related stress disorders, not homosexuality.

During the second trimester of pregnancy there are a few hormone surges which do or do not happen depending on the sex of the child. One of these is a testosterone surge which makes the child develop a male body. Irregularities in this hormone soup can cause an incomplete gender assignment...specifically, the thalamus interprets pheromones sensed by the
olfactory epithelium to be of the opposite sex, when in fact the pheromones are from the same-sex, thus causing same-sex attraction.

This is not correctable.

Ellipsis and I seem to agree that there is a "cureable type"
which Ellipsis refers to as "sex-related stress disorders" not homosexuality.

Can you please explain which you feel is natural or unnatural?

When I hear that someone had unwelcome attractions that weren't right for them,
and they had to work to overcome them, and after they did, they felt they were consistent with their natural self.

Then THOSE unwelcome attractions are what I mean by unnatural.
if the person themselves says that is NOT natural for them and they worked to restore what was natural.

So do you call that "sex related stress disorders"
and not real homosexuality?

We may be on to something here.

If we can agree WHAT to call the cases that people report of changing their orientation,
we CAN distinguish that from the cases where homosexuality cannot be changed.

This would HELP tremendously to separate these two to begin with.

Just like I distinguish Jihadist as a separate term and group of people
from Muslims so we can agree what we're even talking about to begin with.

Can we do that here?

Agree to have a term for the two different groups of people as a starting point.
Wouldn't that help to understand they don't all follow one way or the other, but both are going on
and these are totally different. They cannot be judged the same if one can change and the other cannot.

That is unfair and causing undue harm and distress to lump them all together as now.

Yes. That is natural. Natural is that which occurs in nature.

 

[Ellipsis]

Sorry I forget that if you are secular literalist, you will not get the broader spiritual meaning.

Raised Christian and practicing Buddhist. The rules on homosexuality only apply to Jews physically in Israel.

 

[emilynghiem]

There is nothing unnatural about homosexuality.

Dear PratchettFan does this description by Ellipsis
sound natural to you:

You're talking about correcting sex-related stress disorders, not homosexuality.

During the second trimester of pregnancy there are a few hormone surges which do or do not happen depending on the sex of the child. One of these is a testosterone surge which makes the child develop a male body. Irregularities in this hormone soup can cause an incomplete gender assignment...specifically, the thalamus interprets pheromones sensed by the
olfactory epithelium to be of the opposite sex, when in fact the pheromones are from the same-sex, thus causing same-sex attraction.

This is not correctable.

Ellipsis and I seem to agree that there is a "cureable type"
which Ellipsis refers to as "sex-related stress disorders" not homosexuality.

Can you please explain which you feel is natural or unnatural?

When I hear that someone had unwelcome attractions that weren't right for them,
and they had to work to overcome them, and after they did, they felt they were consistent with their natural self.

Then THOSE unwelcome attractions are what I mean by unnatural.
if the person themselves says that is NOT natural for them and they worked to restore what was natural.

So do you call that "sex related stress disorders"
and not real homosexuality?

We may be on to something here.

If we can agree WHAT to call the cases that people report of changing their orientation,
we CAN distinguish that from the cases where homosexuality cannot be changed.

This would HELP tremendously to separate these two to begin with.

Just like I distinguish Jihadist as a separate term and group of people
from Muslims so we can agree what we're even talking about to begin with.

Can we do that here?

Agree to have a term for the two different groups of people as a starting point.
Wouldn't that help to understand they don't all follow one way or the other, but both are going on
and these are totally different. They cannot be judged the same if one can change and the other cannot.

That is unfair and causing undue harm and distress to lump them all together as now.

Yes. That is natural. Natural is that which occurs in nature.

Okay so what term do we use to describe something like diseased tissue.

Diseases occur in natural. So if we say heads or body parts are naturally shaped a certain way,
what distinguishes a body part that is growing so large it is abnormal, by nature of a "diseased condition" occurring "in nature
by birth" that is "unnaturally large"

If you would not use the term unnatural, since this occurred by nature, what would you use?
Would you say abnormal or what?

is it only when it becomes dysfunctional or "unwelcome" that it is a problem to that person?
how do you distinguish a "diseased" condition that occurs in nature if you would still call it natural.

 

[emilynghiem]

Sorry I forget that if you are secular literalist, you will not get the broader spiritual meaning.

Raised Christian and practicing Buddhist. The rules on homosexuality only apply to Jews physically in Israel.

But the UNIVERSAL MEANING IN that passage (not just the literal letter of the law)
the idea that [b[some conditions are made from birth, and some made by man,[/b]
doesn't that apply to more than just literal eunuchs and more to just Jews.

Literally you can argue that Constitutional laws only apply to US citizens.
But the SPIRIT of the laws is based on NATURAL LAWS that apply to ALL people.
so even if the LETTER of the law only applies in a specific legal context,
the CONCEPTS that it Represents affect all people and how we interact socially.

 

[emilynghiem]

Seems the Mayor's wife is PROOF it's a LIFE STYLE CHOICE!!!

Hi Vigilante
Ellipsis threw some interesting language into the ring,
saying that the type of conditions that can change
should be specified as "sex-related stress disorders"

Do you like that term?

So if she was just experiencing "sex-related stress disorders"
and was healed/recovered from that, then she can restore
her natural orientation which in her case was ALWAYS heterosexual as naturally born,
and she was NEVER TRULY lesbian to begin with if this was unnaturally induced by stress disorders.

Are you okay with that term?

If we can agree on separate terms for the two groups,
at least we can stop arguing the other "doesn't exist."

I believe the mayor's wife, on many occasions called herself a lesbian, and now POOOF!! she's NOT!...She said she was in 1979...

It must be wonderful to be married to a guy like Bill that fucked her STRAIGHT! I'm impressed with that! It's about the only thing Billy has done correctly!!

Well according to Inevitable she was never truly a lesbian to begin with.

She had to be born heterosexual, because you cannot be made heterosexual if you are truly homosexual,
and then went through this "sex-related stress disorder" that Ellipsis
refers to, which to her was the reason she had those attractions and relations.

Well Billy Boy is 6'5" and PROBABLY has an overinflated ego in his pants... that could impress many a gay girl!.... Vibrators after a few years just don't cut it!

I think it would take spiritual forces to bring people together like this.

 

[Ellipsis]

Sorry I forget that if you are secular literalist, you will not get the broader spiritual meaning.

Raised Christian and practicing Buddhist. The rules on homosexuality only apply to Jews physically in Israel.

But the meaning of that passage, the idea that some conditions
are made from birth, and some made by man,
doesn't that apply to more than just literal eunuchs and more to just Jews.

Gays aren't gay for the sake of god so your passage doesn't apply.

 

[Vigilante]

Seems the Mayor's wife is PROOF it's a LIFE STYLE CHOICE!!!

Hi Vigilante
Ellipsis threw some interesting language into the ring,
saying that the type of conditions that can change
should be specified as "sex-related stress disorders"

Do you like that term?

So if she was just experiencing "sex-related stress disorders"
and was healed/recovered from that, then she can restore
her natural orientation which in her case was ALWAYS heterosexual as naturally born,
and she was NEVER TRULY lesbian to begin with if this was unnaturally induced by stress disorders.

Are you okay with that term?

If we can agree on separate terms for the two groups,
at least we can stop arguing the other "doesn't exist."

I believe the mayor's wife, on many occasions called herself a lesbian, and now POOOF!! she's NOT!...She said she was in 1979...

It must be wonderful to be married to a guy like Bill that fucked her STRAIGHT! I'm impressed with that! It's about the only thing Billy has done correctly!!

Well according to Inevitable she was never truly a lesbian to begin with.

She had to be born heterosexual, because you cannot be made heterosexual if you are truly homosexual,
and then went through this "sex-related stress disorder" that Ellipsis
refers to, which to her was the reason she had those attractions and relations.

Well Billy Boy is 6'5" and PROBABLY has an overinflated ego in his pants... that could impress many a gay girl!.... Vibrators after a few years just don't cut it!

I think it would take spiritual forces to bring people together like this.

Emi, whatever make you feel good!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Silliest comment of the day, "Unnatural homosexuality can be healed."

Sorry JakeStarkey
how would you say it.

Would you use the terms "sex-related stress disorders" can be healed?

Homosexuality is not spiritually unnatural.

 

[bodecea]

Seems the Mayor's wife is PROOF it's a LIFE STYLE CHOICE!!!

Do you know the difference between gay and bisexual?

She still eats the carpet, and Bill watches?

Fascinating where your mind goes.

Well if anyone should know the difference it should be you!

I'm not bi-sexual. So no.

 

[bodecea]

Seems the Mayor's wife is PROOF it's a LIFE STYLE CHOICE!!!

Hi Vigilante
Ellipsis threw some interesting language into the ring,
saying that the type of conditions that can change
should be specified as "sex-related stress disorders"

Do you like that term?

So if she was just experiencing "sex-related stress disorders"
and was healed/recovered from that, then she can restore
her natural orientation which in her case was ALWAYS heterosexual as naturally born,
and she was NEVER TRULY lesbian to begin with if this was unnaturally induced by stress disorders.

Are you okay with that term?

If we can agree on separate terms for the two groups,
at least we can stop arguing the other "doesn't exist."

I believe the mayor's wife, on many occasions called herself a lesbian, and now POOOF!! she's NOT!...She said she was in 1979...

It must be wonderful to be married to a guy like Bill that fucked her STRAIGHT! I'm impressed with that! It's about the only thing Billy has done correctly!!

Oh yeah...the old "all she needed was a REAL man" schtick.

 

[Inevitable]

A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as "a major admission" by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.
Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied
People Are Not Born Gay Affirms Royal College of Psychiatrists

Yep, even if it was genetic, it is still your choice to have same-sex pleasure or not. Anyone and everyone has a choice. Say yes or say no. It is really that simple...BUT queers choose to suck each other's dicks

Straight people choose to have sex with the opposite sex than.

And at that discovery, there should be no opposition to either choice. Unless you can prove either morally or scientifically that one choice is wrong.

 

[Inevitable]

being gay is a behavior, not a biological trait.

Behavior is sometimes a biological trait.

 

[Inevitable]

Seems the Mayor's wife is PROOF it's a LIFE STYLE CHOICE!!!

Hi Vigilante
Ellipsis threw some interesting language into the ring,
saying that the type of conditions that can change
should be specified as "sex-related stress disorders"

Do you like that term?

So if she was just experiencing "sex-related stress disorders"
and was healed/recovered from that, then she can restore
her natural orientation which in her case was ALWAYS heterosexual as naturally born,
and she was NEVER TRULY lesbian to begin with if this was unnaturally induced by stress disorders.

Are you okay with that term?

If we can agree on separate terms for the two groups,
at least we can stop arguing the other "doesn't exist."

I believe the mayor's wife, on many occasions called herself a lesbian, and now POOOF!! she's NOT!...She said she was in 1979...

It must be wonderful to be married to a guy like Bill that fucked her STRAIGHT! I'm impressed with that! It's about the only thing Billy has done correctly!!

Well according to Inevitable she was never truly a lesbian to begin with.

She had to be born heterosexual, because you cannot be made heterosexual if you are truly homosexual,
and then went through this "sex-related stress disorder" that Ellipsis
refers to, which to her was the reason she had those attractions and relations.

Speaking of, I have not read Inevitable's posts for a while.
He is intellectually honest and open/transparent and articulate
and might help clarify the terms here so we can get on the same page.

I will PM him and ask him to chime in, if he is still around....

If people go back and forth they are bisexual.

 

[emilynghiem]

Sorry I forget that if you are secular literalist, you will not get the broader spiritual meaning.

Raised Christian and practicing Buddhist. The rules on homosexuality only apply to Jews physically in Israel.

But the meaning of that passage, the idea that some conditions
are made from birth, and some made by man,
doesn't that apply to more than just literal eunuchs and more to just Jews.

Gays aren't gay for the sake of god so your passage doesn't apply.

Well at least one priest I know might disagree with you.
(an ordained priest who said he felt he was born gay by God so he would not focus
on family or relations but remain abstinent and focus on serving the church as his family)

And my friend Ray Hill who is the most outspoken gay atheist activist this side of the Left
I know, is definitely one I would say was meant to be that way by God so he could reach the people he reaches.

He teaches abundance of free grace, but as an atheist so he reaches people without religion.
Just explains that forgiveness is better for sanity and health or we'd go insane trying to keep inventory
on ourselves much less other people.

I think his calling is from God though HE doesn't call it that (he studied the Bible up to age 19 as a minister with the Baptist church before he decided he was secular in outlook and this other stuff didn't really appeal to him though he works just fine with fellow Christians in the peace and justice community).

So that's two people I would say are gay as part of their purpose in life from God or whatever you call the
greater good will and purpose in life collectively that motivates humanity by conscience or Christ.

[BTW Christ Jesus to me in secular terms means Restorative Justice.
So as long as we agree and live in that spirit, then we are neighbors in Christ
whether we are theists or nontheists, Christian or nonchristian.
You can be Buddhist, Christian, Muslim nontheist (some call themselves atheist and that's fine but I call it nontheist
so it covers more ground) etc. and still be neighbors in Christ united by love of Truth, Justice and Peace for Humanity.

It is when we are divided by Unforgiveness and ill will, then we fall apart. As long as we forgive and receive one another, we are joined as children of God and build the Kingdom of God as heavenly peace on earth. So that is that is the same as joining the body of Christ or the world community as one. Only the unique spirit of Christ or perfect justice with mercy by conscience that includes all people universally will bring about this perfect unity. So that's how you can tell the difference.]