Peace Or Piece?????????

[Indeependent]

Of course I saw the photos, it is their choice...Your analysis is getting comical and derogatory in judging a culture's decisions and Mores despite the fact that the UN and the worlds condemns Israeli actions.

AND, YOU CONVEINANTLY FORGET THAT Israeli TROOPS TORE DOWN THIR TENTS AND FORCED THESE CHANTIES.

Why disguise your Jew hatred behind a question that been answered by countless nations in the last 3,000 years?
Conquest, land allocation, infrastructure happens, just like sh!t happens.
If you don't like the fact that THE SOLE JEWISH nation is doing it, go there and protest.

I, for one, think if a human being can have access to a modern infrastructure, good for them.

But I know, it's those f*ing Jews giving it to non-Jews!

Why would the UN then add its voice? Do you believe the UN hates Jews? The old convenient bull, if you don't agree with the Israelis, you hate Jews...

Its a sad defense and arrogant.

Did you ever take notice of the huge block of Arab nations in the UN or does your Jew hatred blind you to that also?

 

[pbel]

Why disguise your Jew hatred behind a question that been answered by countless nations in the last 3,000 years?
Conquest, land allocation, infrastructure happens, just like sh!t happens.
If you don't like the fact that THE SOLE JEWISH nation is doing it, go there and protest.

I, for one, think if a human being can have access to a modern infrastructure, good for them.

But I know, it's those f*ing Jews giving it to non-Jews!

Why would the UN then add its voice? Do you believe the UN hates Jews? The old convenient bull, if you don't agree with the Israelis, you hate Jews...

Its a sad defense and arrogant.

Did you ever take notice of the huge block of Arab nations in the UN or does your Jew hatred blind you to that also?

France voted to recognize a Palestinian State to the 67 borders, England abstained...if you can't read the writing on the wall, then it is Humanity that does not agree to Israeli actions that are against International Law...

Even allies are telling Israel to make peace or she will be alone.

The Arab nations are not anywhere near a majority, (29 Arab League members), the final Vote was 129 for and 9 against.

Keep braying Jew hate. http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2012/ga11317.doc.htm

 

[pbel]

Vote on Status of Palestine at United Nations


The draft resolution on the Status of Palestine at the United Nations (document A/67/L.28) was adopted by a recorded vote of 138 in favour to 9 against, with 41 abstentions, as follows:


In favour: Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Comoros, Congo, Costa Rica, Côte d’Ivoire, Cuba, Cyprus, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Honduras, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lao People’s Democratic Republic, Lebanon, Lesotho, Libya, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nepal, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Qatar, Russian Federation, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, South Sudan, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Tajikistan, Thailand, Timor-Leste, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Republic of Tanzania, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe.


Against: Canada, Czech Republic, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (Federated States of), Nauru, Palau, Panama, United States.


Abstain: Albania, Andorra, Australia, Bahamas, Barbados, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Colombia, Croatia, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Estonia, Fiji, Germany, Guatemala, Haiti, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malawi, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Netherlands, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Poland, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Rwanda, Samoa, San Marino, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Togo, Tonga, United Kingdom, Vanuatu.


Absent: Equatorial Guinea, Kiribati, Liberia, Madagascar, Ukraine.

 

[Kondor3]

This is what the Jews of Israel want...

And it's what they're going to get...

The Palestinians' own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled land demonstrate just how very close the Jews are now to attaining that status...

Everything that's happening now is related to attaining the status demonstrated on the top map...

And they're getting very close now... acre by acre, hectare by hectare, field by field, building by building, block by block, village by village, town by town... tick, tick, tick...

It's not a difficult concept to grasp...

The Jews are doing it because they desperately want and need one small and defensible piece of land in the the entire world to call their own and to serve as a final redoubt and sanctuary against the possibility of any future repetition of the Holocaust...

Putting their own people and their survival first, after the world let them be slaughtered in their millions, they are slowly but firmly nudging-out the old Arab-Muslim occupants of those lands, until it all belongs to Israel...

And, if that seems harsh (and it is), then, comparisons between the Israelis in this context and the perpetrators of the Holocaust ring false... the Jews are Evicting and Expelling, but they are not Slaughtering... no gas chambers, no crematoria, no Einsatzgruppen, no Sonderkommando, no mass shootings... no mass graves... no faux comparison hyperbole...

Those evicted still live, and take their possessions elsewhere, and are free to move elsewhere to begin new lives beyond Israeli control...

Eviction and Expulsion... much like the East Prussian ethnic Germans whom the Poles and Soviets tore from their homes and sent to 'mainland' Germany... much like the Sudatenland ethnic Germans whom the Czechs and Soviets tore from their homes and sent to 'mainland' Germany... much like the Hindus in Pakistan and the Muslims in India who were forced to migrate as British India fractured into modern India and Pakistan... all of which were accepted as fait accompli by the United Nations...

Eviction and Expulsion... much like the 1,000,000+ Jews expelled or forced or nudged out of Muslim lands in the period 1948-1975, also within living memory...

This is being done by force of arms, and at least in-part outside the domain of international law, but the underlying circumstances and needs of the Jews are considered sufficiently pressing and overriding, by those who hold the reins of power in The West, that the result is tantamount to both overt and covert Western tolerance for these actions, as a necessary exception to the rule...

Fair has nothing to do with it...

Legal has nothing to do with it...

The West is letting the Israelis get away with all this because...

1. the Muslims have a lot of land and the Jews have none, except for Israel

2. the Jews have a prior claim to the land, historically, in Western literature and thought

3. the Jews lost 6,000,000 of their own within living memory and needed a break, so the West is looking the other way, while they make that 'break' for themselves...

4. the West has a guilty conscience over the Holocaust and is giving them Palestine as penance (the kdea that it was not ethically or legally theirs to give has no bearing upon reality)

5. the rag-tag, loosely-knit tribal folk of Palestine got in-the-way of that penance

6. the West admires the Jews for surviving as a People for 2000 years in exile

7. the West sees Judaism as the Mothership for its own dominant religious belief system and has always had a love-hate guilty soft-spot for it, even while it was persecuting Jews in times past

8. the West dislikes Muslims - and has since long before the Crusades - ever since the Muslims broke out of Arabia and started taking-over other peoples' lands throughout the Mediterranean basin and Asia Minor in the late 600s and early-to-mid 700s - collectively, and damned-near subconsciously, we half-remember on some level, and, half-mysteriously even amongst ourselves, act accordingly

9. the West is contemptuous of Arabs in particular and really doesn't give a shit about them, despite soft, meaningless protestations to the contrary, designed to placate the Arabs enough to buy oil

10. the West admires the Jews for kicking Arab ass so many times and holding their own

11. Israel is now a strong regional ally and Muslim mischief tripwire and advance staging base of last resort for the West in that region - both strategic partner and tactical convenience.

12. Israel is now a nuclear power and not to be f--ked with.

In retrospect, on the macro-level, it's not difficult at all, to understand why and how this is happening.

Dumbass half-hearted boycotts of Israel won't work - the Jews of the world and the United States and several other sympathetic Western countries will make sure of that.

Israel's attainment of the territorial goals shown in the top-most map is inevitable... the process is now irreversible, unless the world at-large decides to make war upon the Jews of Israel.

And there's no way that's going to happen.

Those who want the land must come and take it... if they can... if they dare...

It's not like the surrounding Arab nations haven't tried... repeatedly.. 1948... 1967... 1973... and failed miserably, each time... to the contemptuous laughter of most of the non-Muslim world.

The top map - drawn in the past - shows us the Israel of the not-too-distant future.

Good luck, trying to stop that, at this late stage of the game.

Ain't gonna happen.

Far better to concentrate energy on relocating the remaining Palestinians and compensating them for their loss and giving them a helping hand in beginning new lives, elsewhere.

 

[pbel]

This is what the Jews of Israel want...

And it's what they're going to get...

The Palestinians' own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled land demonstrate just how very close the Jews are now to attaining that status...

Everything that's happening now is related to attaining the status demonstrated on the top map...

And they're getting very close now... acre by acre, hectare by hectare, field by field, building by building, block by block, village by village, town by town... tick, tick, tick...

It's not a difficult concept to grasp...

The Jews are doing it because they desperately want and need one small and defensible piece of land in the the entire world to call their own and to serve as a final redoubt and sanctuary against the possibility of any future repetition of the Holocaust...

Putting their own people and their survival first, after the world let them be slaughtered in their millions, they are slowly but firmly nudging-out the old Arab-Muslim occupants of those lands, until it all belongs to Israel...

And, if that seems harsh (and it is), then, comparisons between the Israelis in this context and the perpetrators of the Holocaust ring false... the Jews are Evicting and Expelling, but they are not Slaughtering... no gas chambers, no crematoria, no Einsatzgruppen, no Sonderkommando, no mass shootings... no mass graves... no faux comparison hyperbole...

Those evicted still live, and take their possessions elsewhere, and are free to move elsewhere to begin new lives beyond Israeli control...

Eviction and Expulsion... much like the East Prussian ethnic Germans whom the Poles and Soviets tore from their homes and sent to 'mainland' Germany... much like the Sudatenland ethnic Germans whom the Czechs and Soviets tore from their homes and sent to 'mainland' Germany... much like the Hindus in Pakistan and the Muslims in India who were forced to migrate as British India fractured into modern India and Pakistan... all of which were accepted as fait accompli by the United Nations...

Eviction and Expulsion... much like the 1,000,000+ Jews expelled or forced or nudged out of Muslim lands in the period 1948-1975, also within living memory...

This is being done by force of arms, and at least in-part outside the domain of international law, but the underlying circumstances and needs of the Jews are considered sufficiently pressing and overriding, by those who hold the reins of power in The West, that the result is tantamount to both overt and covert Western tolerance for these actions, as a necessary exception to the rule...

Fair has nothing to do with it...

Legal has nothing to do with it...

The West is letting the Israelis get away with all this because...

1. the Muslims have a lot of land and the Jews have none, except for Israel

2. the Jews have a prior claim to the land, historically, in Western literature and thought

3. the Jews lost 6,000,000 of their own within living memory and needed a break, so the West is looking the other way, while they make that 'break' for themselves...

4. the West has a guilty conscience over the Holocaust and is giving them Palestine as penance (the kdea that it was not ethically or legally theirs to give has no bearing upon reality)

5. the rag-tag, loosely-knit tribal folk of Palestine got in-the-way of that penance

6. the West admires the Jews for surviving as a People for 2000 years in exile

7. the West sees Judaism as the Mothership for its own dominant religious belief system and has always had a love-hate guilty soft-spot for it, even while it was persecuting Jews in times past

8. the West dislikes Muslims - and has since long before the Crusades - ever since the Muslims broke out of Arabia and started taking-over other peoples' lands throughout the Mediterranean basin and Asia Minor in the late 600s and early-to-mid 700s - collectively, and damned-near subconsciously, we half-remember on some level, and, half-mysteriously even amongst ourselves, act accordingly

9. the West is contemptuous of Arabs in particular and really doesn't give a shit about them, despite soft, meaningless protestations to the contrary, designed to placate the Arabs enough to buy oil

10. the West admires the Jews for kicking Arab ass so many times and holding their own

11. Israel is now a strong regional ally and Muslim mischief tripwire and advance staging base of last resort for the West in that region - both strategic partner and tactical convenience.

12. Israel is now a nuclear power and not to be f--ked with.

In retrospect, on the macro-level, it's not difficult at all, to understand why and how this is happening.

Dumbass half-hearted boycotts of Israel won't work - the Jews of the world and the United States and several other sympathetic Western countries will make sure of that.

Israel's attainment of the territorial goals shown in the top-most map is inevitable... the process is now irreversible, unless the world at-large decides to make war upon the Jews of Israel.

And there's no way that's going to happen.

Those who want the land must come and take it... if they can... if they dare...

It's not like the surrounding Arab nations haven't tried... repeatedly.. 1948... 1967... 1973... and failed miserably, each time... to the contemptuous laughter of most of the non-Muslim world.

The top map - drawn in the past - shows us the Israel of the not-too-distant future.

Good luck, trying to stop that, at this late stage of the game.

Ain't gonna happen.

Far better to concentrate energy on relocating the remaining Palestinians and compensating them for their loss and giving them a helping hand in beginning new lives, elsewhere.

Yup, once they clear the Muslims, then the Nukes will replace them flying in...

 

[pbel]

This is what the Jews of Israel want...

And it's what they're going to get...

The Palestinians' own propaganda maps of shrinking Palestinian-controlled land demonstrate just how very close the Jews are now to attaining that status...

Everything that's happening now is related to attaining the status demonstrated on the top map...

And they're getting very close now... acre by acre, hectare by hectare, field by field, building by building, block by block, village by village, town by town... tick, tick, tick...

It's not a difficult concept to grasp...

The Jews are doing it because they desperately want and need one small and defensible piece of land in the the entire world to call their own and to serve as a final redoubt and sanctuary against the possibility of any future repetition of the Holocaust...

Putting their own people and their survival first, after the world let them be slaughtered in their millions, they are slowly but firmly nudging-out the old Arab-Muslim occupants of those lands, until it all belongs to Israel...

And, if that seems harsh (and it is), then, comparisons between the Israelis in this context and the perpetrators of the Holocaust ring false... the Jews are Evicting and Expelling, but they are not Slaughtering... no gas chambers, no crematoria, no Einsatzgruppen, no Sonderkommando, no mass shootings... no mass graves... no faux comparison hyperbole...

Those evicted still live, and take their possessions elsewhere, and are free to move elsewhere to begin new lives beyond Israeli control...

Eviction and Expulsion... much like the East Prussian ethnic Germans whom the Poles and Soviets tore from their homes and sent to 'mainland' Germany... much like the Sudatenland ethnic Germans whom the Czechs and Soviets tore from their homes and sent to 'mainland' Germany... much like the Hindus in Pakistan and the Muslims in India who were forced to migrate as British India fractured into modern India and Pakistan... all of which were accepted as fait accompli by the United Nations...

Eviction and Expulsion... much like the 1,000,000+ Jews expelled or forced or nudged out of Muslim lands in the period 1948-1975, also within living memory...

This is being done by force of arms, and at least in-part outside the domain of international law, but the underlying circumstances and needs of the Jews are considered sufficiently pressing and overriding, by those who hold the reins of power in The West, that the result is tantamount to both overt and covert Western tolerance for these actions, as a necessary exception to the rule...

Fair has nothing to do with it...

Legal has nothing to do with it...

The West is letting the Israelis get away with all this because...

1. the Muslims have a lot of land and the Jews have none, except for Israel

2. the Jews have a prior claim to the land, historically, in Western literature and thought

3. the Jews lost 6,000,000 of their own within living memory and needed a break, so the West is looking the other way, while they make that 'break' for themselves...

4. the West has a guilty conscience over the Holocaust and is giving them Palestine as penance (the kdea that it was not ethically or legally theirs to give has no bearing upon reality)

5. the rag-tag, loosely-knit tribal folk of Palestine got in-the-way of that penance

6. the West admires the Jews for surviving as a People for 2000 years in exile

7. the West sees Judaism as the Mothership for its own dominant religious belief system and has always had a love-hate guilty soft-spot for it, even while it was persecuting Jews in times past

8. the West dislikes Muslims - and has since long before the Crusades - ever since the Muslims broke out of Arabia and started taking-over other peoples' lands throughout the Mediterranean basin and Asia Minor in the late 600s and early-to-mid 700s - collectively, and damned-near subconsciously, we half-remember on some level, and, half-mysteriously even amongst ourselves, act accordingly

9. the West is contemptuous of Arabs in particular and really doesn't give a shit about them, despite soft, meaningless protestations to the contrary, designed to placate the Arabs enough to buy oil

10. the West admires the Jews for kicking Arab ass so many times and holding their own

11. Israel is now a strong regional ally and Muslim mischief tripwire and advance staging base of last resort for the West in that region - both strategic partner and tactical convenience.

12. Israel is now a nuclear power and not to be f--ked with.

In retrospect, on the macro-level, it's not difficult at all, to understand why and how this is happening.

Dumbass half-hearted boycotts of Israel won't work - the Jews of the world and the United States and several other sympathetic Western countries will make sure of that.

Israel's attainment of the territorial goals shown in the top-most map is inevitable... the process is now irreversible, unless the world at-large decides to make war upon the Jews of Israel.

And there's no way that's going to happen.

Those who want the land must come and take it... if they can... if they dare...

It's not like the surrounding Arab nations haven't tried... repeatedly.. 1948... 1967... 1973... and failed miserably, each time... to the contemptuous laughter of most of the non-Muslim world.

The top map - drawn in the past - shows us the Israel of the not-too-distant future.

Good luck, trying to stop that, at this late stage of the game.

Ain't gonna happen.

Far better to concentrate energy on relocating the remaining Palestinians and compensating them for their loss and giving them a helping hand in beginning new lives, elsewhere.

I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times: Israel needs to make peace and become part of the fabric of the ME or she will go by the way of all the previous invaders to this area... Military Power is a transitory thing changed by time...

Can Israel Survive as a Country? - Historum - History Forums

Can Israel Survive as a Country?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Around the time the PLO were making peace with the Israeli's, I saw an interview with a Hamas leader who said why they opposed peace.

Basically he said look at history, power in the middle east is always changing. At present Israel and the US were the power, but it would not always be this way. Before it was the British Empire, then the Ottomans, Romans and so on. If they waited, maybe 100 years or 200 hundred years eventually things would change to their advantage, beating Israel was just a matter of patience. It may not be them, or their children but their grandchildren maybe would be the ones who drive the Israelis out.

After the interview and being interested in history I couldn't help thinking everything he said is correct.

So to today I was reassessing what he said. Israel is a tiny country with a small population and little resources facing a huge enemy, it exists for three main reason, military power, money and technology. This is not unusual in history, look at the British Empire, a small country ruling a huge empire for these reasons. The same could be said of Rome and a lot of other empires. However these countries have not been able to keep their technological, economic and military leads, they may get a start on regions with greater resources and numbers but they can't retain it, bigger trumps small in the end.

So with Israel's ally America fading fast and middle eastern countries modernising fast. How long before Israel is eclipsed in power, then dwarfed in power, and finally preyed upon. I can see in as little as 50 years perhaps it will be Palestinian settlers encrouching Israeli land and Isreal being able to do little but wimper. This is the way this kind of thing has always gone down in history.

Toltec is offline

 

[MHunterB]

It's sad that Phil has no words of his own to use in 'discussion'........

 

[pbel]

It's sad that Phil has no words of his own to use in 'discussion'........

Here are my words published in circa 2003 and many times on these very boards...


The Irrepressible Conflict...
________________________________________
Old Post Same News…The Irrepressible Conflict


What most people who support Israel, don't appear to understand, is that this is a Cultural/Religious/Land War.
That is unlike your normal wars, it is an Irrepressible conflict that will prevent peace until one side completely conquers the other, or a reasonable honorable peace is signed with the Palestinians and the Arab league...

The reason for this type of war-fare lies in the total cultural differences that cannot be reconciled by either party. Much like the situation today, in Iraq; or our-own American Civil War. The gap is too great for a permanent peace.

It is to the Muslim Public a Foreign Occupation. Period…The only option for Israel today is to accept the Arab League Offer and negotiate a peace deal. She needs to desperately integrate with the ME and help the area prosper…Prosperity is great insurance.

Oh sure we have the religious kooks who control Israeli and the Moslem hearts, who swear that some god chose others waiving a bible or Koran that means nothing to the Industrialized world as though they are legal documents rather than one groups interoperation of who God really is. Primitive un-educated ideology!

The Arab Nation in philosophy has existed throughout the last nine hundred years. They see themselves as one and someone like Osama bin Laden was in essence created as a leader of not only the Arab Nation but of the larger Muslim Nation.

The Palestinian cause via Osama has become a Muslim cause. Even Saddam used these phrases to portray himself as an Arab Hero.

If America kills him he will be made a Martyr. The same if they get Osama. It will further unite this cause.

Israel insistence of annexing the third holiest site in Islam and controlling it has sealed its fate by challenging all of Islam. It will eventually be slowly ground to death like all previous invaders.

History has shown through the Christian Crusades that when the Arabs United they always defeated the Western armies, most recently Britain's by relentless grinding. The tremendous advantage in man-power insures a future victory because of this relentless grinding. 1.7 BILLION souls against 5-6 million Israelis.

Sure Israel is a power today but she does not have the numbers to occupy the region. That’s why they left Gaza and most of the West Bank.

It has become a fortress under constant siege.

That is what Israel has brought upon itself when it went beyond the relatively peaceful pre-67 borders.

It may take hundreds of years of grinding and in the end the invaders like all others before them will just pick up and leave or be slowly ground to death.

That is the lesson of History.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Yup, once they clear the Muslims, then the Nukes will replace them flying in..."

Nukes from where?

 

[Kondor3]

"...I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times: Israel needs to make peace and become part of the fabric of the ME or she will go by the way of all the previous invaders to this area... Military Power is a transitory thing changed by time...":

There IS no long-term future for Israel in the Middle East, except that which she has the courage to carve-out for herself, rejecting the prospect of Dhimmitude and eventual overrun and acquiring and finalizing borders of her own choosing. She has no other choice, and, given the alternatives, nothing to lose by forcing the issue, which she is doing quite persistently and skillfully.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Israel insistence of annexing the third holiest site in Islam and controlling it has sealed its fate by challenging all of Islam..."

Muslims and Arabs were trying to slit the Israeli National Throat years before the Jews won back Jerusalem in the 1967 War.

Perhaps it is time to reflect upon the sacrilege committed by Islam, in profaning the most sacred site in all of Judaism, by building an infidel place of worship on the Temple Mount.

At least the Muslims have Mecca and Medinah, et al.

The Jews only have one, and the Muslims have been squatting on it for centuries.

That is changing.

One of these days, we're going to see the Israelis contact the Saudis, and tell them to come and dissemble those sacrileges and travesties on top of Jewish Sacred Soil, and to re-assemble them in Mecca or something, while the Jews re-task the land in a manner suitable for the site of that Jewish Holy of Holies.

It's the price one pays for so churlishly and arrogantly building on top of the Temple Mount - regardless of whether it's a church or a mosque... that piece of land belongs to the Jews and, now that they're recaptured it, they can now do whatever the hell they want to do with it.

The Arabs have lording it over the Jews for the better part of 1300 years.

It's finally the Jews' turn as king-of-the-hill.

The previous champions are pissed.

But I don't think the Jews give a good goddamn... and, frankly, I'm not surprised.

 

[pbel]

"...Yup, once they clear the Muslims, then the Nukes will replace them flying in..."

Nukes from where?

Pakistan, The Saudis paid for them, and in a hundred or two hundred years they'll all have them...

BBC News - Saudi nuclear weapons 'on order' from Pakistan

Saudi nuclear weapons 'on order' from PakistanComments Related Stories
How serious is the 'rift' in US-Saudi relations?
Saudi Arabia turns down UN seat
Saudi Arabia profile

Saudi Arabia has invested in Pakistani nuclear weapons projects, and believes it could obtain atomic bombs at will, a variety of sources have told BBC Newsnight.

While the kingdom's quest has often been set in the context of countering Iran's atomic programme, it is now possible that the Saudis might be able to deploy such devices more quickly than the Islamic republic.

Earlier this year, a senior Nato decision maker told me that he had seen intelligence reporting that nuclear weapons made in Pakistan on behalf of Saudi Arabia are now sitting ready for delivery.

Last month Amos Yadlin, a former head of Israeli military intelligence, told a conference in Sweden that if Iran got the bomb, "the Saudis will not wait one month. They already paid for the bomb, they will go to Pakistan and bring what they need to bring."

 

[pbel]

"...I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times: Israel needs to make peace and become part of the fabric of the ME or she will go by the way of all the previous invaders to this area... Military Power is a transitory thing changed by time...":

There IS no long-term future for Israel in the Middle East, except that which she has the courage to carve-out for herself, rejecting the prospect of Dhimmitude and eventual overrun and acquiring and finalizing borders of her own choosing. She has no other choice, and, given the alternatives, nothing to lose by forcing the issue, which she is doing quite persistently and skillfully.

Skillfully? Maybe you could write a new Comedy of Errors? The Whole world has refused to acknowledge Israel's annexations...Sure she can kill the Palestinians or expel them, but the eventual blowback will destroy her slowly but surely...

Military Power is useless in History, it is transitory.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Pakistan, The Saudis paid for them, and in a hundred or two hundred years they'll all have them...

Pakistan will not launch against Israel in your lifetime nor mine, nor that of our immediate descendants; not if they wish to survive, anyway.

The Israelis only need another decade or two to fulfill their objectives, and, after that, with the Palestinians dispersed into Jordan and Lebanon and beyond, and busy beginning new lives, these loosely-associated so-called Palestinians will quickly dissolve as a recognizable polity and assimilate back into the diverse surrounding countrysides where their own ancestors came from and where their distant cousins reside today.

The Arabs have had a bellyful of war with Israel and no sane, rational Muslim power is going to go toe-to-toe with the Israelis using nuclear weapons, merely for the sake of the Palestinians.

The Palestinians simply aren't worth it.

Ditto for the antique squatter-shacks on top of the Temple Mount.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Skillfully?..."

Absolutely.

When a lot of powerful outsiders are clucking their tongues over what you are doing, even when it's merely pro forma, as much of that is in Israel's case, yet you continue to get away with it, then, you are skillfully balancing your need to complete your objectives with a pace and intensity designed not to provoke a stronger reaction, so that you may continue apace.

That sure sounds like skill to me.

 

[pbel]

"...Pakistan, The Saudis paid for them, and in a hundred or two hundred years they'll all have them...

Pakistan will not launch against Israel in your lifetime nor mine, nor that of our immediate descendants; not if they wish to survive, anyway.

The Israelis only need another decade or two to fulfill their objectives, and, after that, with the Palestinians dispersed into Jordan and Lebanon and beyond, and busy beginning new lives, these loosely-associated so-called Palestinians will quickly dissolve as a recognizable polity and assimilate back into the diverse surrounding countrysides where their own ancestors came from and where their distant cousins reside today.

The Arabs have had a bellyful of war with Israel and no sane, rational Muslim power is going to go toe-to-toe with the Israelis using nuclear weapons, merely for the sake of the Palestinians.

The Palestinians simply aren't worth it.

Ditto for the antique squatter-shacks on top of the Temple Mount.

You keep dreaming and posturing that it won't happen...you're right they won't nuke Israel for the expendable Palestinian, nor were the wars of 48, 67 0r 73 to free them...in the Islamic mind the infidels and invader will be worth the cost.

History has borne that. The only hope for Israel is to intergrade with the ME and not be a lackey of the Western Powers or she will vanish in time.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Pakistan, The Saudis paid for them, and in a hundred or two hundred years they'll all have them...

Pakistan will not launch against Israel in your lifetime nor mine, nor that of our immediate descendants; not if they wish to survive, anyway.

The Israelis only need another decade or two to fulfill their objectives, and, after that, with the Palestinians dispersed into Jordan and Lebanon and beyond, and busy beginning new lives, these loosely-associated so-called Palestinians will quickly dissolve as a recognizable polity and assimilate back into the diverse surrounding countrysides where their own ancestors came from and where their distant cousins reside today.

The Arabs have had a bellyful of war with Israel and no sane, rational Muslim power is going to go toe-to-toe with the Israelis using nuclear weapons, merely for the sake of the Palestinians.

The Palestinians simply aren't worth it.

Ditto for the antique squatter-shacks on top of the Temple Mount.

You keep dreaming and posturing that it won't happen...you're right they won't nuke Israel for the expendable Palestinian, nor were the wars of 48, 67 0r 73 to free them...in the Islamic mind the infidels and invader will be worth the cost.

History has borne that. The only hope for Israel is to intergrade with the ME and not be a lackey of the Western Powers or she will vanish in time.

The Jews have no place else to go, and the Muslims don't want them there, in control of the land.

There are two alternatives for the Jews of Israel as a People:

1. surrender

2. victory

In the long run, the Muslims will leave them no alternative to those two stark options, and will settle for nothing less than the surrender and dismantling of Israel.

Better to be killed for a bull than to be killed for a sheep.

Although it will be generations before the Arabs have their act together well-enough to take-on Israel again in any formidable fashion.

 

[pbel]

Pakistan will not launch against Israel in your lifetime nor mine, nor that of our immediate descendants; not if they wish to survive, anyway.

The Israelis only need another decade or two to fulfill their objectives, and, after that, with the Palestinians dispersed into Jordan and Lebanon and beyond, and busy beginning new lives, these loosely-associated so-called Palestinians will quickly dissolve as a recognizable polity and assimilate back into the diverse surrounding countrysides where their own ancestors came from and where their distant cousins reside today.

The Arabs have had a bellyful of war with Israel and no sane, rational Muslim power is going to go toe-to-toe with the Israelis using nuclear weapons, merely for the sake of the Palestinians.

The Palestinians simply aren't worth it.

Ditto for the antique squatter-shacks on top of the Temple Mount.

You keep dreaming and posturing that it won't happen...you're right they won't nuke Israel for the expendable Palestinian, nor were the wars of 48, 67 0r 73 to free them...in the Islamic mind the infidels and invader will be worth the cost.

History has borne that. The only hope for Israel is to intergrade with the ME and not be a lackey of the Western Powers or she will vanish in time.

The Jews have no place else to go, and the Muslims don't want them there, in control of the land.

There are two alternatives for the Jews of Israel as a People:

1. surrender

2. victory

In the long run, the Muslims will leave them no alternative to those two stark options, and will settle for nothing less than the surrender and dismantling of Israel.

Better to be killed for a bull than to be killed for a sheep.

Although it will be generations before the Arabs have their act together well-enough to take-on Israel again in any formidable fashion.

Anyone with a fraction of knowledge of the Arabian peninsula's history knows how this will end...The West is not going to save Israel surrounded in a sea of Islam by 1.2 billion people...Many wars end not with military power but by attrition when the invaders simply pack up and leave as the cost of defense bankrupts them like the Soviet Union, lots of Nukes and expenses to hold their gains.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Anyone with a fraction of knowledge of the Arabian peninsula's history knows how this will end...The West is not going to save Israel surrounded in a sea of Islam by 1.2 billion people..."

The Jews of Israel are not surrounded by 1.2 billion Muslims.

The Jews of Israel are surrounded by a few score million Muslims, whom the Jews have beaten back several times, until the Arabs exhausted themselves, and gave up, before turning inwards once again and fighting amongst themselves so long and hard so as to cripple the Muslim-Arab war-making ability for many years to come.

 

[pbel]

"...Anyone with a fraction of knowledge of the Arabian peninsula's history knows how this will end...The West is not going to save Israel surrounded in a sea of Islam by 1.2 billion people..."

The Jews of Israel are not surrounded by 1.2 billion Muslims.

The Jews of Israel are surrounded by a few score million Muslims, whom the Jews have beaten back several times, until the Arabs exhausted themselves, and gave up, before turning inwards once again and fighting amongst themselves so long and hard so as to cripple the Muslim-Arab war-making ability for many years to come.

Yea a few score, while Jihadist from all over the world fight this very day in the ME skirmishes...Even today I doubt Israel could halt a concerted land invasion...she barely held off the Egyptians in 73...if it wasn't for US arms shipments she may have lost...that's why she made peace with Egypt...If she uses her nukes, Pakistan will nuke her.

You say the Muslims won't do anything for centuries? Maybe. In human history, that is a very short time.