pastor whining because town bans church on the beach

[Ernie S.]

How on Earth does praying on a beach constitute the state endorsing a religion?

You fuckers are completely nuts. Seriously, you are some fucked up assholes.

Its a public beach. Get the **** off it and into church where you belong.

Same can be said for any person who's presence annoys someone. I detest bratty little kids who dig holes in the beach. Get a truck load of sand and let them dig in your back yard. I have a right not to be annoyed!

 

[Ernie S.]

Its a public beach, you do not have the right to force your crap down the throats of those people on public property.

So [MENTION=38085]Noomi[/MENTION], would you be in favor of banning gay parades from taking place on public roads, as they're offensive to many people?

[ame=http://youtu.be/VE3XFJzdgZo]West Hollywood Gay Pride Parade 2012 - Celebrating Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals & Transgenders - YouTube[/ame]

I think these demonstrations should be limited to private events on the private property of volunteering individuals.

They should dress appropriately, and as long as they are not forcing homosexuality on people (a pride march is not forcing anything) then it should be fine.
A church service on a beach is fine providing you don't start preaching to members of the public.

Do you have feet, Noomi? Then walk away. It's really that simple. I walk away from that which offends me.

 

[Ernie S.]

Oh, and those who go to visit StoneHenge...and have celebrations there? They should stick to their forests and caves too, huh?

All who go to the public square to pray in Israel...they should also stop, right? They may offend tourists.

Is the purpose of a beach to pray? Or is the purpose of a church to pray?

It's not for you to decide what the appropriate place to pray is. I more often chose a clearing in the woods or the seat od a speeding motorcycle. You have no right to confine me to a box.

 

[Ernie S.]

Is the purpose of a beach to pray? Or is the purpose of a church to pray?

Oh come ON!!! You are shitting me, aren't you? I mean...REALLY???? If this is your mindset, there is nothing more to discuss with that. Sorry, but that is just assinine.

Can I hold an anti abortion demonstration outside a church, during service? Legally, I could, but morally, should I?

Of course I shouldn't and I don't need to state the reason why.

Now you are just confused.

 

[Dragonlady]

The town of Rehoboth Beach is, of course, unequivocally wrong. They are the ones violating the Constitution by denying this man and his followers freedom of religion.

They are most definitely NOTE violating his freedom of religion. Freedom of religion simply means you can worship who or what you want, in the manner you deem fit, without state interference. It doesn't mean you can violate noise restrictions, hold services anywhere you want at any time, or become a public nuisance.

 

[HUGGY]

Pastor Fights Back After Delaware Town Bans Church Services on Rehoboth Beach | Fox News Insider

During an appearance on Fox and Friends, Pastor Dekker, of the New Covenant Presbyterian Church, said that the city manager’s decision to ban beach services “created a real problem for me because my calling as a pastor is to communicate the gospel by word and by deed to ourselves, to our neighbors, and to the world so that the wonders of the gospel may be known by folks.”

Read more: Pastor Fights Back After Delaware Town Bans Church Services on Rehoboth Beach | Fox News Insider

Uh no dickhead....its not. You are to communicate to people who choose to come to your church...not harass people on a beach with your ranting and raving.

prove he is or was harassing people

just because you're a religious bigot does not mean other people are

Taking an unusual or unwanted interest in others on public beaches is harrassment and I would go farther and suggest it is equal to a pervert staring at one's children or family causing them to feel uncomfortable.

The beach is an environment where even among others one expects a certain amount of privacy from others. Many communities depend on thier beaches to attract much needed tourist and recreational dollars. If a community like say Fort Lauderdale as an example allowed nut cases to use thier cash cow as a forum to push thier religious beliefs very soon it would hit the city hard and people would stop coming there on vacation and even the locals would find other beaches not far away to enjoy some peaceful recreation on the ocean.

 

[Ernie S.]

The town of Rehoboth Beach is, of course, unequivocally wrong. They are the ones violating the Constitution by denying this man and his followers freedom of religion.

They are most definitely NOTE violating his freedom of religion. Freedom of religion simply means you can worship who or what you want, in the manner you deem fit, without state interference. It doesn't mean you can violate noise restrictions, hold services anywhere you want at any time, or become a public nuisance.

You are dead ass wrong!

Please READ the 1st Amendment to The Constitution of the United States of America.
It says, in part, that Congress shall make no laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion. That is simple and succinct enough for most anyone to comprehend.

 

[OKTexas]

One side of me says to let them have the church on the beach, the other says to let them hold their own church services on their own property.

My recollection of the video is that the preacher wants to use the bandstand every Sunday for his services. That's like a church saying, "We're gonna take over the town Community Center every Sunday morning (and possibly every Wednesday evening) for our services." If I'm wrong about that, I'll stand corrected, but such a request is patently unreasonable and smells of government sanctioning of religion.

Then they'll want a place to store their stuff to keep from haulin' it back and forth in the church van...and a place to park the buses. Then they'll want to take over the picnic tables and umbrellas.

Then they'll be walkin' up and down the beach two by two, passin' out pamphlets and shit, askin' folks to come on down and share the love and drop some dough in the collection plate so the preacher can dress up nice on weekdays.

If the town lets this church establish Sunday rights to the bandstand, they'll need to provide a synagogue for the Jewish, a mosque for the Muslims and God knows what for the gahdamned atheists...maybe a brothel.

I'm with the Mayor. I commend the preacher for wantin' to spread the word, but let him do it on his own dime.

You might want to watch the video again, I didn't get that at all.

 

[Dragonlady]

The town of Rehoboth Beach is, of course, unequivocally wrong. They are the ones violating the Constitution by denying this man and his followers freedom of religion.

They are most definitely NOTE violating his freedom of religion. Freedom of religion simply means you can worship who or what you want, in the manner you deem fit, without state interference. It doesn't mean you can violate noise restrictions, hold services anywhere you want at any time, or become a public nuisance.

You are dead ass wrong!

Please READ the 1st Amendment to The Constitution of the United States of America.
It says, in part, that Congress shall make no laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion. That is simple and succinct enough for most anyone to comprehend.

This isn't a Congressional law. And, your right to freely exercise your doesn't given YOU carte blance to interfere with others in their enjoyment of life. Tell me, if the local Wiican group wants to come to the beach and cast spells, would the constitution permit that too?

 

[asaratis]

Seems to me there is quite a few here who are totally intolerant here.
Christians are tolerant to those on the beach who have butts, boobs and outlines of Men's genitals in those speedos hanging out and exposing them to everyone else's eyes all day long, then
it seems that those who do that should be tolerant to one measly hour of Church Service on Sunday Morning.

The 1st amendment gives Christians and any other Religion the right to freedom, to exercise their beliefs in public.
I bet that there would be not be a problem what so ever, if it had been Muslims who wanted to do the same thing or even Satanists.

Tolerate,my ass! Christians flock to the beaches to get a glimpse of live flesh that they cannot get anywhere else. God said to go forth and multiply. Actually, He gave us the natural and irresistible drive to do so. We are programmed to be inherently interested in sex and genitalia. If not for that God-given trait, men would rather watch TV than have sex.

And....if all the Baptists actually quick drinking, liquor stores would likely go out of business.

 

[HUGGY]

The town of Rehoboth Beach is, of course, unequivocally wrong. They are the ones violating the Constitution by denying this man and his followers freedom of religion.

They are most definitely NOTE violating his freedom of religion. Freedom of religion simply means you can worship who or what you want, in the manner you deem fit, without state interference. It doesn't mean you can violate noise restrictions, hold services anywhere you want at any time, or become a public nuisance.

You are dead ass wrong!

Please READ the 1st Amendment to The Constitution of the United States of America.
It says, in part, that Congress shall make no laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion. That is simple and succinct enough for most anyone to comprehend.

And just how is "Congress" involved? Many townships and cities have regulations in regards to appropriate activities on the public access to recreational areas within thier jurisdiction.

 

[TemplarKormac]

They are most definitely NOTE violating his freedom of religion. Freedom of religion simply means you can worship who or what you want, in the manner you deem fit, without state interference. It doesn't mean you can violate noise restrictions, hold services anywhere you want at any time, or become a public nuisance.

You are dead ass wrong!

Please READ the 1st Amendment to The Constitution of the United States of America.
It says, in part, that Congress shall make no laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion. That is simple and succinct enough for most anyone to comprehend.

And just how is "Congress" involved? Many townships and cities have regulations in regards to appropriate activities on the public access to recreational areas within thier jurisdiction.

I'm sure that means anyone with authority, Congress, State Legislatures, Local boards; etc. Jurisdiction is irrelevant if the people you are banning from that beach are the same people who pay for that beach. What does that say for you?

 

[HUGGY]

You are dead ass wrong!

Please READ the 1st Amendment to The Constitution of the United States of America.
It says, in part, that Congress shall make no laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion. That is simple and succinct enough for most anyone to comprehend.

And just how is "Congress" involved? Many townships and cities have regulations in regards to appropriate activities on the public access to recreational areas within thier jurisdiction.

I'm sure that means anyone with authority, Congress, State Legislatures, Local boards; etc. Jurisdiction is irrelevant if the people you are banning from that beach are the same people who pay for that beach. What does that say for you?

Huh? No one pays for the beach. What is regulated is local ACCESS to the beach. If the bible thumpers wanted to make a federal case out of it they should get a barge and anchor it near a beach and spout thier religious nonsense on loudspeakers aimed at the public trying to enjoy some peaceful recreation. Then it would be a clear case of free speach in an environment controlled by the Coast Guard AKA Congress.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And just how is "Congress" involved? Many townships and cities have regulations in regards to appropriate activities on the public access to recreational areas within thier jurisdiction.

I'm sure that means anyone with authority, Congress, State Legislatures, Local boards; etc. Jurisdiction is irrelevant if the people you are banning from that beach are the same people who pay for that beach. What does that say for you?

Huh? No one pays for the beach. What is regulated is local ACCESS to the beach. If the bible thumpers wanted to make a federal case out of it they should get a barge and anchor it near a beach and spout thier religious nonsense on loudspeakers aimed at the public trying to enjoy some peaceful recreation. Then it would be a clear case of free speach in an environment controlled by the Coast Guard AKA Congress.

No one pays for that beach? Why do they call it "public property" then? That term "public" makes that a taxpayer funded venue. The pastor is a taxpayer, as are the people he preaches to. Please, dislodge your head from your posterior and think clearly for once. That decision is religiously motivated. This is why I have little hope for my country... people like you wishing to alienate people from public places and forums all for being Christians. You make me ill, all of of you who claim to want tolerance, are quite incapable of giving it. Sure, you can have your gay parades, but we, well we can't preach on the beach. You and your kind are rank hypocrites.

Siddown.

 

[asaratis]

Oh, and those who go to visit StoneHenge...and have celebrations there? They should stick to their forests and caves too, huh?

All who go to the public square to pray in Israel...they should also stop, right? They may offend tourists.

Is the purpose of a beach to pray? Or is the purpose of a church to pray?

Noomi, I can tell that you aren't a christian because you wouldn't have ever posted this.
FYI, the church is the people, not the structure where they go to pray.

Example, a church can be no more than a clearing in a forest where people come to pray.

One side of me says to let them have the church on the beach, the other says to let them hold their own church services on their own property.

My recollection of the video is that the preacher wants to use the bandstand every Sunday for his services. That's like a church saying, "We're gonna take over the town Community Center every Sunday morning (and possibly every Wednesday evening) for our services." If I'm wrong about that, I'll stand corrected, but such a request is patently unreasonable and smells of government sanctioning of religion.

Then they'll want a place to store their stuff to keep from haulin' it back and forth in the church van...and a place to park the buses. Then they'll want to take over the picnic tables and umbrellas.

Then they'll be walkin' up and down the beach two by two, passin' out pamphlets and shit, askin' folks to come on down and share the love and drop some dough in the collection plate so the preacher can dress up nice on weekdays.

If the town lets this church establish Sunday rights to the bandstand, they'll need to provide a synagogue for the Jewish, a mosque for the Muslims and God knows what for the gahdamned atheists...maybe a brothel.

I'm with the Mayor. I commend the preacher for wantin' to spread the word, but let him do it on his own dime.

You might want to watch the video again, I didn't get that at all.

Then you didn't really listen. He says, "...at the beach, at the bandstand..." quite clearly. Perhaps YOU should watch the video again.

 

[Dragonlady]

This is why I have little hope for my country... people like you wishing to alienate people from public places and forums all for being Christians. You make me ill, all of of you who claim to want tolerance, are quite incapable of giving it. Sure, you can have your gay parades, but we, well we can't preach on the beach. You and your kind are rank hypocrites.

Siddown.

It has nothing to do with them being Christians, and everything to do with public enjoyment of THEIR freedom from harassment.

I have my own religion which I am very happy with. I spent a lot of time deciding which Christian denomination best matched my beliefs and went with that. Attempts to "convert" me to someone else's religion are an affront to my faith. They assume that I either have no beliefs of my own, or that my church is not the true church and my beliefs are wrong. If I go with my family on a picnic at the beach, I go there to relax and enjoy the outdoors, not put up with someone telling me my faith is wrong and theirs is right.

This notion that Christians can harass others at will and attempt to convert them is a subversion of the intent and meaning of the Contitution. The amendment was to ensure people had the freedom to worship according their beliefs, not that they could harass and intimidate others with them.

 

[HUGGY]

I'm sure that means anyone with authority, Congress, State Legislatures, Local boards; etc. Jurisdiction is irrelevant if the people you are banning from that beach are the same people who pay for that beach. What does that say for you?

Huh? No one pays for the beach. What is regulated is local ACCESS to the beach. If the bible thumpers wanted to make a federal case out of it they should get a barge and anchor it near a beach and spout thier religious nonsense on loudspeakers aimed at the public trying to enjoy some peaceful recreation. Then it would be a clear case of free speach in an environment controlled by the Coast Guard AKA Congress.

No one pays for that beach? Why do they call it "public property" then? That term "public" makes that a taxpayer funded venue. The pastor is a taxpayer, as are the people he preaches to. Please, dislodge your head from your posterior and think clearly for once. That decision is religiously motivated. This is why I have little hope for my country... people like you wishing to alienate people from public places and forums all for being Christians. You make me ill, all of of you who claim to want tolerance, are quite incapable of giving it. Sure, you can have your gay parades, but we, well we can't preach on the beach. You and your kind are rank hypocrites.

Siddown.

You have me confused with someotherbody. Whatever gave you the impression that I was tolorant?

I go to the beach to listen to the gulls and the children laughing and playing and to relax and enjoy the presence of others doing the same thing. I go to the beach to get away from the crazy fuckers that polute our existance with thier gods and sky fairies and just have some time of solitude with nature and others that appreciate what little peace we have left that isn't ruined by morons with some neurotic agenda.

Keep your sermons inside your own private property. If your message is so great people will choose to come and listen to it. If it is not so great people need the right to reject it.

 

[clevergirl]

This is why I have little hope for my country... people like you wishing to alienate people from public places and forums all for being Christians. You make me ill, all of of you who claim to want tolerance, are quite incapable of giving it. Sure, you can have your gay parades, but we, well we can't preach on the beach. You and your kind are rank hypocrites.

Siddown.

It has nothing to do with them being Christians, and everything to do with public enjoyment of THEIR freedom from harassment.

I have my own religion which I am very happy with. I spent a lot of time deciding which Christian denomination best matched my beliefs and went with that. Attempts to "convert" me to someone else's religion are an affront to my faith. They assume that I either have no beliefs of my own, or that my church is not the true church and my beliefs are wrong. If I go with my family on a picnic at the beach, I go there to relax and enjoy the outdoors, not put up with someone telling me my faith is wrong and theirs is right.

This notion that Christians can harass others at will and attempt to convert them is a subversion of the intent and meaning of the Contitution. The amendment was to ensure people had the freedom to worship according their beliefs, not that they could harass and intimidate others with them.

Having Sunday services is not "harassing" anyone. It is absolutely equal to anyone using that public space for whatever reason so long as no laws are being broken by their doing so, The SCOTUS has already ruled that what their being denied use of, based solely on their religious exercise, is unconstitutional see: Contemporary Supreme Court Cases: Landmark Decisions Since Roe V. Wade - Donald E. Lively, Russell L. Weaver - Google Books

Basically what Greg Ferrese did is break the law. My bet is he will have to allow the services- if not now, he will in the future.

 

[OriginalShroom]

I honestly believe that most of the people here didn't read the full articles...

Pastor's permit denial inspires Independence Day rally

Dekker said he asked Rehoboth officials in late May for permission to lead Sunday morning services for eight weeks

It was for 8 Sundays only. Not going to move his Church there.

"I cannot mix church and state," Ferrese's email reply to Dekker said. "I trust you understand."

He's not mixing Church and State for issuing a permit for use of public pavilion.

Pastor's permit denial inspires Independence Day rally

He points out the city allows a group of churches to lead sunrise services on Easter at the public bandstand and said the denial seemed a clear-cut case of wrongly denying a group access to public facilities because of the content of their speech.

The Rev. Tom Flowers, pastor of St. Polycarp Catholic Church in Smyrna, Del., said he was surprised to learn Dekker's request had been rejected, in part because a conference of Catholic churches has had annual prayer services on the sands in Rehoboth Beach for years.

"It's not consistent with what has been a tolerant attitude on the part of the city," Flower said. "It just seems confusing."

Now here is where the fly enters the ointment..

Pastor to Defy City?s Denial of Permit By Preaching at Fourth of July Rally on Public Beach | Christian News Network

According to the Huffington Post, Rehoboth Beach is a “gay-friendly” destination for tourists.

“Those coming to Rehoboth for the first time will find that the gayest block in town is Baltimore Avenue,” wrote columnist Peter Rosenstein. “[You can go] to happy hour and late-night dancing all on the same block, with nearly all the businesses owned and operated by members of the LGBT community. You can stop by CAMP, the Rehoboth LGBT Community Center, and get all the information you need for a great weekend or the whole summer.”

Cooper said. “What I never want is for Rehoboth to become a battleground for groups. People come here to get away from that.”

Now, IMHO, there is the reason the permit was denied.
They have allowed Churches to hold services there before.

Hiram Sasser, director of litigation at the Texas-based Liberty Institute, said the controversy sounded like a cut-and-dried "facilities access" dispute, something the Supreme Court issued key rulings on during the 1990s.

All of the rulings granted religious groups access to facilities they'd been denied, he said.

"Every time, the government loses. It's actually fairly rare now to see a case like this, to see a government say, 'You can't use our facilities because of the religious nature of your speech,' " Sasser said. "For the most part, when the city's attorney gets wind of it, these kinds of issues just melt away."

It is Unconstitutional for them to have denied the permit.


Just in case I missed one... Here are the links to the different articles I found..

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/03/religion-protest-at-rehoboth-beach/2486107/

http://christiannews.net/2013/07/06...-beach-preaches-to-1500-at-4th-of-july-rally/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/1/pastor-plans-july-4-beach-service-without-permit/

http://christiannews.net/2013/07/02...ourth-of-july-church-service-on-public-beach/

http://www.delawareonline.com/artic...-backs-city-manager-s-decision-regards-pastor

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Can I hold an anti abortion demonstration outside a church, during service? Legally, I could, but morally, should I?

Of course I shouldn't and I don't need to state the reason why.

Of course you could, and should, it might give you some perspective.

I wouldn't, simply because it is disrespectful to members of the church.

Everything is disrespectful to someone, which is why I keep pointing out that no one has a right not to be insulted.