Partisan Talking points

[Redfish]

actually Newt and Bubba Clinton worked together and got a lot done. Reagan and O'Neill had the same kind of relationship and they also got things done. Obama refused to deal or talk with the republicans and now the dems are refusing to deal or talk with Trump.

There is more than enough blame on both sides to go around. Compromise is a dirty word and will ensure you lose your primary. Just ask Bannon.

true, and why wont the two parties try to find compromise solutions to our real problems?

Money and power.

 

[Foxfyre]

Virtually every thread on this message board is nothing but talking points from one side or the other. Is no one interested in the truth? Are we so divided that neither side cares about what really happened? Is party all that matters?

This country was not always this way. We were once one country with common goals and common interests.

If this divide persists, the USA will fall. Does anyone want that? Sadly, I think some do.

Comments welcome

Is no one interested in the truth?
Only facts that support their partisan agenda, not the whole truth. Contrary facts are to be ignored and/or distorted and/or avoided.

Are we so divided that neither side cares about what really happened?
Yes.

Is party all that matters?
Yes.

This country was not always this way. We were once one country with common goals and common interests.
Correct. We're now a divided collection of tribal, hypersensitive narcissists. The Division Pimps on both ends have done their job well, the sheep are complying.

If this divide persists, the USA will fall. Does anyone want that?
Yes, some have made their opinion of this country clear.
.

I gave your post and the OP an 'agree' with one caveat: not all of us are either blindly partisan, ideologically fanatical, or angry enough to a) destroy a person by any means necessary simply because he/she has the wrong letter following his/her name or b) allow the country to fail rather than see a hated or resented person or party succeed.

There are some of us who:

a) support the vision, ideas, goals, objectives, accomplishments of a person regardless of his likability, personability, etc. Many numbnuts, trolls, and blindly partisan would destroy a person because they represent the 'wrong' party and don't care about vision, ideas, goals, objectives. They will predictably repeat the ugly talking points/adjectives/descriptions/slogans/lies ad nauseum in the effort to destroy a person.

b) believe that the people, allowing for reasonable social contract, will utilize their rightfully obtained resources and abilities and spend their money more wisely and effectively than government will do that for them. Many numbnuts, trolls, and blindly partisan look to government as god, Santa Claus, and benevolent monarchy that essentially owns and controls everything and righteously allows the people to keep a portion of what they earn and take most of that so that the less fortunate can be provided for.

c) believe a nation has the right to know who is in the country and who has a right to be there. Many numbnuts, trolls, and blindly partisan push for open borders and allowing all who want to he here to come here so long as they support the right persons/party.

d) believe in focusing on and fighting for values, principles, ideals, results regardless of the players involved. Many numbnuts, trolls, and blindly partisan believe that putting certain person(s) in power IS the goal and the only important thing is to promote a particular doctrine based on political correctness.

This stuff certainly exists on a continuum (as do most things). The role of government is not all or nothing, neither are taxes or social programs or military or health care. Any of it. The key is in finding the proper equilibrium.

The problem here is the binary, shallow thinking the infects the thought processes of people who fall prey to political ideology. Normal, rational adults can bring themselves to say, "yes, that's a perfectly fair and reasonable point, but all things considered, I think this the better option".

As a whole, we are simply no longer capable of such seemingly fundamental thought. This is cultural now, the Selfie Generation, everyone is a special celebrity. Sure, there are many in between the extremes, but it's the extremes that are clearly in control right now, and it appears to be infecting us everywhere.
.

good analysis. Don't you also think that the divisions are driven by the money in politics? Getting elected and staying in office has made our DC reps obscenely rich. So, the only thing of import to them is staying in office and staying in power.

Term limits would help. A total ban of lobbying would also help.

Term limits won't fix it I don't think because these people pull all the strings to replace themselves with people like them. That is true in education, in the media, in a lot of scientific research, and in government. The permanent political class will not do anything willingly to change its own culture and there is a lot of if you scratch my back kind of quid pro quo.

I recommend Peter Schweizer's excellent book "Extortion" to really explain how they profit with the status quo that exists and why so many in both parties are pushing back so hard on President Trump's efforts to actually solve problems and get something significant done.

The only thing that will fix it are some hard core laws or perhaps a constitutional amendment that prevents Congress or bureaucrats from extending any benefit to any person, group, demographic, entity that isn't extended to all, making them fund their own healthcare and retirement plans, and requiring them to be subject to all laws and regulations that they pass for anybody else.

 

[alang1216]

true, and why wont the two parties try to find compromise solutions to our real problems?

Money and power.

I disagree. The problem lies not with the politician or the system, the problem is us. We demand ideological purity so that is what we get. We allow our politicians to lie and spin so that is what we get. We let others pay for our elections and then are shocked that our politicians listen to them and not to us.

As Pogo said, “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

 

[pinqy]

This country was not always this way. We were once one country with common goals and common interests.

When was that? From the beginning, the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans were at each others throats on almost every issue. With Western expansion, pro and anti-slavery was a huge political divide which included, in 1856, Rep Preston Brooks (D-SC) physically assaulting Sen Charles Sumner (R-MA) with a cane in the Senate chambers. Sumner was almost killed in the attack.

So while the intensity of political disagreement has waxed and waned, there was never a time when one could say the country was ever completely united with common goals and interests.

 

[rightwinger]

Virtually every thread on this message board is nothing but talking points from one side or the other. Is no one interested in the truth? Are we so divided that neither side cares about what really happened? Is party all that matters?

This country was not always this way. We were once one country with common goals and common interests.

If this divide persists, the USA will fall. Does anyone want that? Sadly, I think some do.

Comments welcome

You are a Snowflake

 

[LoneLaugher]

Virtually every thread on this message board is nothing but talking points from one side or the other. Is no one interested in the truth? Are we so divided that neither side cares about what really happened? Is party all that matters?

This country was not always this way. We were once one country with common goals and common interests.

If this divide persists, the USA will fall. Does anyone want that? Sadly, I think some do.

Comments welcome

Is no one interested in the truth?
Only facts that support their partisan agenda, not the whole truth.

Are we so divided that neither side cares about what really happened?
Yes.

Is party all that matters?
Yes.

This country was not always this way. We were once one country with common goals and common interests.
Correct. We're now a divided collection of hypersensitive narcissists. The Division Pimps on both ends have done their job well, the sheep are complying.

If this divide persists, the USA will fall. Does anyone want that?
Yes, some have made their opinion of this country clear.
.

I think its more than the wingers. It seems to be the establishment in DC from both parties. The fatcats that have been getting rich at our expense. They are the ones most threatened when a president declares that he will drain the swamp.

The street-level wingers are merely the naive foot soldiers, sure. The people pulling the strings are a different animal.
.

how do we rid the country of the string pullers?

Get money out of politics with publicly-funded elections. Put short, strict term limits in place so that the politicians aren't beholden to anyone.

Both ideas have their weaknesses, granted. But this will only get worse.
.

The text of a resolution just passed by the Florida Democratic Party:

• Supporting fundamental campaign finance reform by enacting fair and public financing of elections, while encouraging the development of small-contribution political fundraising methods and policies. Demanding that public officials be prohibited from working as lobbyists upon leaving office, elimination of lobbyist loopholes, and stronger anti-corruption laws.

I helped write it.

Wanna talk like an adult about this issue?

 

[Balancer]

I thought, both sides say this exact same thing and yet come to opposite conclusions. Then I started to wonder, do these people believe they are actually open minded and objective or is it just part of the act.

I have already posted this picture in another topic today. But it reflects the problem very well.

In Russian, the difference between the terms "true" and "truth" is even greater. They sound very different. And all traditionally know that the "true" is a lot different, and the "truth" is it alone and not always available. More wrote one Russian writer - "There are so many true in the world that lies are simply not needed".

True, this does not help to solve the same problem among the Russians. At us too the majority sees only one side of truth and considers it the only true

 

[sartre play]

My thinking always was that what ever party was in power I Would be ok with half of what they did. & dislike half of what they did. after Bush the younger got us in a war in the middle east & two many in power not qualified for the job, my thinking changed, even if I was ok with half of what he did the other half was so bad I needed to keep a better eye on who ever was in office. as Trump has put to many people in power that are unqualified, and I keep hearing the faint drum roll of war, I have become wary of Trump. you have to follow your own heart but please don't just look at the parts you like, we need to fight for some middle ground. instead of talking about each others penis.

 

[Redfish]

true, and why wont the two parties try to find compromise solutions to our real problems?

Money and power.

I disagree. The problem lies not with the politician or the system, the problem is us. We demand ideological purity so that is what we get. We allow our politicians to lie and spin so that is what we get. We let others pay for our elections and then are shocked that our politicians listen to them and not to us.

As Pogo said, “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

we are in agreement, you just used more words to say the same thing.

 

[alang1216]

we are in agreement, you just used more words to say the same thing.

Well then, you're very smart.

 

[Redfish]

This country was not always this way. We were once one country with common goals and common interests.

When was that? From the beginning, the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans were at each others throats on almost every issue. With Western expansion, pro and anti-slavery was a huge political divide which included, in 1856, Rep Preston Brooks (D-SC) physically assaulting Sen Charles Sumner (R-MA) with a cane in the Senate chambers. Sumner was almost killed in the attack.

So while the intensity of political disagreement has waxed and waned, there was never a time when one could say the country was ever completely united with common goals and interests.

during WW2, in the 1950s. Part of the beauty of those times was that there was no 24/7/365 news media. People lived their lives and rarely heard or cared what happened in DC.

Today's media needs discord and tension in order to generate ratings, so many times they make up news rather than report that nothing much is going on.

 

[pinqy]

I thought, both sides say this exact same thing and yet come to opposite conclusions. Then I started to wonder, do these people believe they are actually open minded and objective or is it just part of the act.

I have already posted this picture in another topic today. But it reflects the problem very well.

In Russian, the difference between the terms "true" and "truth" is even greater. They sound very different. And all traditionally know that the "true" is a lot different, and the "truth" is it alone and not always available. More wrote one Russian writer - "There are so many true in the world that lies are simply not needed".

True, this does not help to solve the same problem among the Russians. At us too the majority sees only one side of truth and considers it the only true

Ok, now you just reminded me of the old Soviet joke: В Правде нет известий, и в Известиях нет правды.
And while explaining jokes ruins them, for those that don't know Russian, the two main newspapers in the USSR were Pravda (Truth) and Izvestie (News). So the joke was "In Pravda there is no news and in Izvestie there is no truth."

 

[pinqy]

This country was not always this way. We were once one country with common goals and common interests.

When was that? From the beginning, the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans were at each others throats on almost every issue. With Western expansion, pro and anti-slavery was a huge political divide which included, in 1856, Rep Preston Brooks (D-SC) physically assaulting Sen Charles Sumner (R-MA) with a cane in the Senate chambers. Sumner was almost killed in the attack.

So while the intensity of political disagreement has waxed and waned, there was never a time when one could say the country was ever completely united with common goals and interests.

during WW2, in the 1950s. Part of the beauty of those times was that there was no 24/7/365 news media. People lived their lives and rarely heard or cared what happened in DC.

Today's media needs discord and tension in order to generate ratings, so many times they make up news rather than report that nothing much is going on.

The criticism of Roosevelt over Court-packing, the New Deal, charges of fascism, inappropriateness of running for a 3rd term, etc didn't end after Pearl Harbor.

And in the 1950's? You've never heard of Brown v Topeka Board of Education? Never heard of Joe McCarthy? Political divisions were huge.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Virtually every thread on this message board is nothing but talking points from one side or the other. Is no one interested in the truth? Are we so divided that neither side cares about what really happened? Is party all that matters?

This country was not always this way. We were once one country with common goals and common interests.

If this divide persists, the USA will fall. Does anyone want that? Sadly, I think some do.

Comments welcome

Why are you assuming all so-called 'talking points' are untrue?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I thought, both sides say this exact same thing and yet come to opposite conclusions. Then I started to wonder, do these people believe they are actually open minded and objective or is it just part of the act.

I have already posted this picture in another topic today. But it reflects the problem very well.

In Russian, the difference between the terms "true" and "truth" is even greater. They sound very different. And all traditionally know that the "true" is a lot different, and the "truth" is it alone and not always available. More wrote one Russian writer - "There are so many true in the world that lies are simply not needed".

True, this does not help to solve the same problem among the Russians. At us too the majority sees only one side of truth and considers it the only true

Ok, now you just reminded me of the old Soviet joke: В Правде нет известий, и в Известиях нет правды.
And while explaining jokes ruins them, for those that don't know Russian, the two main newspapers in the USSR were Pravda (Truth) and Izvestie (News). So the joke was "In Pravda there is no news and in Izvestie there is no truth."

Add one more good reason to have broken up the Soviet Union.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Virtually every thread on this message board is nothing but talking points from one side or the other. Is no one interested in the truth? Are we so divided that neither side cares about what really happened? Is party all that matters?

This country was not always this way. We were once one country with common goals and common interests.

If this divide persists, the USA will fall. Does anyone want that? Sadly, I think some do.

Comments welcome

Good point.
Tell us some more about how it is that you Know nothing about the uranium one deal yet you know Clinton took bribes.

 

[Mac1958]

I thought, both sides say this exact same thing and yet come to opposite conclusions. Then I started to wonder, do these people believe they are actually open minded and objective or is it just part of the act.

I have already posted this picture in another topic today. But it reflects the problem very well.

View attachment 157986

In Russian, the difference between the terms "true" and "truth" is even greater. They sound very different. And all traditionally know that the "true" is a lot different, and the "truth" is it alone and not always available. More wrote one Russian writer - "There are so many true in the world that lies are simply not needed".

True, this does not help to solve the same problem among the Russians. At us too the majority sees only one side of truth and considers it the only true

I would imagine that there are similarities between the two countries, in this way:

I can write and deliver a story that is absolutely, 100% factual in every way. Every statement in the story can be absolutely true and no one can deny it. Yet it can still be intellectually dishonest.

Why?

Because of all the material I left out, avoided and ignored, which is ALSO true, that either contradicts or mitigates the rest of the information I provided. That is standard practice from one end of the political spectrum to the other here, and it might be the primary reason why we can come up with such different conclusions from the same story.

Worse, now that the consumers of the "news" are divided into ideological camps, they're perfectly fine with this counterproductive arrangement. They don't WANT to hear the whole story, just the elements of it with which they agree, the elements that support their political agenda. That with which they are comfy.

This is not good for a democracy.
.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Virtually every thread on this message board is nothing but talking points from one side or the other. Is no one interested in the truth? Are we so divided that neither side cares about what really happened? Is party all that matters?

This country was not always this way. We were once one country with common goals and common interests.

If this divide persists, the USA will fall. Does anyone want that? Sadly, I think some do.

Comments welcome

As I have said before, the Democrats have slipped so far off the American cracker that I doubt any commonality remains with which to approach compromise with them.

A common enemy might do it, but who knows.

I agree with Redfish.
Many from both ideologies are letting conjecture and guesses, dictate what is driving them.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm waiting for the final outcome. There is still so much, that is not known.

There is so much that is as well. Quite a bit of what liberals have been saying for months has come to fruition while none of the crap from the other side has. The major problem IMO is intellectual sloth when it comes to being informed. There is so much mis/disinformation out there that diligence is required when sorting it out. Too many just glam onto nonsense without thought.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You know, I was thinking along this lines today driving home from the store. I do not watch TV news, the last time I did was election night. I do though listen to a lot of radio both the local Conservative talk radio channel and NPR as well as lots of PodCast.

Today on the radio was the local Trump cheerleader and he made the comment "anyone that is objective and honest...". I thought, both sides say this exact same thing and yet come to opposite conclusions. Then I started to wonder, do these people believe they are actually open minded and objective or is it just part of the act.

The division we now see is not an accident, it is by design from both sides (if there is really two sides). The old saying United we stand, divided we fall is 100% true and a divided people are much easier to control.

Good points. But dividing nations is one of the primary strategies of leftists throughout history. Get the people mad at the government, the landowners, the military, and each other. Hitler did it, Mao did it, Henry the VIII did it, Louis IXV did it, Divide and conquer. But who exactly is trying to bring the US down so it can be conquered? and why?

Hitler....Jews...Not a leftist...

Hitler wanted to do away with all religion, the Jews were just his favorite target. Removing religion is a leftist tactic. The people cannot put anything above the state.

Not very accurate.... regardless, you were speaking of today and it is true that we have one of the most divisive leaders in our history. i.e immigrants, media, blacks, NFL, trans gender, etc...

wrong again, the most divisive leader in our history was Obama. Protecting the USA, its borders, its values, and its history is not racist or divisive. Expecting citizens to honor the flag and the national anthem is not divisive, racist, or anti immigrant.

Wanting a country where all varieties of perversion are considered normal is divisive and will destroy this country.

Dude, you just created a thread lamenting partisan talking points and then proceeded to fill it with your partisan talking points.

Self aware much?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Good points. But dividing nations is one of the primary strategies of leftists throughout history. Get the people mad at the government, the landowners, the military, and each other. Hitler did it, Mao did it, Henry the VIII did it, Louis IXV did it, Divide and conquer. But who exactly is trying to bring the US down so it can be conquered? and why?

Hitler....Jews...Not a leftist...

Hitler wanted to do away with all religion, the Jews were just his favorite target. Removing religion is a leftist tactic. The people cannot put anything above the state.

Not very accurate.... regardless, you were speaking of today and it is true that we have one of the most divisive leaders in our history. i.e immigrants, media, blacks, NFL, trans gender, etc...

wrong again, the most divisive leader in our history was Obama. Protecting the USA, its borders, its values, and its history is not racist or divisive. Expecting citizens to honor the flag and the national anthem is not divisive, racist, or anti immigrant.

Wanting a country where all varieties of perversion are considered normal is divisive and will destroy this country.

Dude, you just created a thread lamenting partisan talking points and then proceeded to fill it with your partisan talking points.

Self aware much?

It works for him.