Palestinians are not HAMAS!?

[The Duke]

Yes and no. It can be called certain that Iran is supporting Islamic terrorist groups in one way or another. But cutting that head off won't end the snake's functioning.

As recent events showed any rapprochement with Israel happened mostly on higher stages of the societies, among the elites. The Arab street remained mainly untouched by that. Even if Iran is somehow eliminated as a threat to Israel, there will be someone else trying to exploit that. It is a very strong political active.

Biden has probably funded HAMAS more than Iran.

He re-started funding them in April of his 1st year in office after Trump had it stopped in 2018.

Biden administration to restore $235m in US aid to Palestinians

Two-thirds will go to the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, which Donald Trump stopped funding.

www.bbc.com

They classify those top-tier drones as "Toys" in their "aid requests".

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Biden has probably funded HAMAS more than Iran has.

He re-started funding them in April of his 1st year in office after Trump had it stopped in 2018.

I remember when Obama tried to sneak some money to them on his last day in office.

Trump put an end to that shit fast!

 

[Natural Citizen]

No, fatass. Root them out of their ratholes.

I like Natty C's chutzpah!

Man, I've purposefully tried to stay out of these Middle East threads.

They almost always get turned into a glorified pecker waving contest.

This arbitrary labeling of people as terrorists/terrorist supporters, however, is going mainstream (at least that seems to be the intent) and the coercion to do that to people will likely turn around and bite Americans in the rear end, though. Watch and see. Because of it, our own slimy elements of government are likely watering at their chops and being given all of the justification/support by the useful idiots that it needs on a silver platter to do the very same thing they did in such instances where parents got mad about what was going on in schools. They ended up in the crosshairs of the intelligence agencies and they immediately started popping off about needing legislation to ''combat'' them. It always works the same way.

The theme over the last year or so has observably been to create the illusion that America is under seige by its own electorate. This'll be just one more brick in the wall. Another designated victim status group will be seeded and invoked by playing on emotion in order to further justify the usurp, so long as the discussion continues to remain dominated by and maintained strictly as being ''everybody hates the joos.''

Why do you think these NGOs are planting all of these recent pro-Palestine vs Pro-Israel rallies in the cities all of a sudden? It's divide and conquer 101. Of course, the talking heads on the cable news entertainment programming platforms jump on the bandwagon and do their part to gaslight it from the convenience of their teleprompters. They know what they're doing. Same game, different day.

 

[ESay]

Then go after the government. Dont rape women in front of their families. Dont torture innocent civilians.
Those freaks get no sympathy from me.

That is a two-edged sword. Either 'innocence' of civilians is recognised for both sides or for neither one.

I have no sympathy for Hamas terrorists, either. It is they who started this phase of escalation by mass killings of civilian people.

 

[sparky]

Please name the a national, ethnical, racial or religious group being targeted. And I'll rebut as a layman.

name one that hasn't been....

This arbitrary labeling of people as terrorists/terrorist supporters, however, is going mainstream

That one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter is a concept they're terrified of Natty

~S~

 

[ESay]

Yes. I wish one side would just end this shit. Im tired of hearing about it all the damn time!

The worst thing about this conflict is that it can't be ended, it seems, with any peace agreement. Hatred is too high on the both sides and it is bound to rise even higher with the time.

Even a two-state solution won't bring a lasting peace. Because the both sides will deem themselves 'deprived'.

 

[ESay]

Biden has probably funded HAMAS more than Iran.

He re-started funding them in April of his 1st year in office after Trump had it stopped in 2018.

Biden administration to restore $235m in US aid to Palestinians

Two-thirds will go to the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, which Donald Trump stopped funding.

www.bbc.com

They classify those top-tier drones as "Toys" in their "aid requests".

That is a partisan shit I don't want to engage in. One side will claim this money will go for humanitarian aid, the other that Hamas will have the lion's share of that. Fuck that all.

One thing can be said for sure. The Palestinians have too rich brethren. Let their Gulf brothers finance them more instead of buying shitloads of new business jets, luxury yachts, football clubs or mansions.

 

[toomuchtime_]

name one that hasn't been....

That one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter is a concept they're terrified of Natty

~S~

Since being a terrorist and being a freedom fighter are not mutually exclusive, that is a stupid thing to say, and it is especially stupid in this case since the only freedom Hamas is fighting for is the freedom to kill Jews.

 

[sparky]

Since being a terrorist and being a freedom fighter are not mutually exclusive, that is a stupid thing to say, and it is especially stupid in this case since the only freedom Hamas is fighting for is the freedom to kill Jews.

Do tell TMT , one can be seen as both, depending on perspective & objectivity

Yet this BB , as well as the whole country is being sold one or the other, ergo the conundrum

They are mired in their current hate and fear , unable to rise above it all, to define just what that would be throughout human existence..

Such as sadly we could have a grand jaunt through history (inclusive of our own ) parsing it all out

But you (et all myopic responders) would have to rise above your hate and bigotry to realize it

~S~

 

[toomuchtime_]

Do tell TMT , one can be seen as both, depending on perspective & objectivity

Yet this BB , as well as the whole country is being sold one or the other, ergo the conundrum

They are mired in their current hate and fear , unable to rise above it all, to define just what that would be throughout human existence..

Such as sadly we could have a grand jaunt through history (inclusive of our own ) parsing it all out

But you (et all myopic responders) would have to rise above your hate and bigotry to realize it

~S~

You are still unable to see the issue clearly. One can be fighting for freedom of some sort and commit acts of terrorism and hence be both a freedom fighter and a terrorist. As you phrase the issue, being a freedom fighter would excuse acts of terrorism. That's why that phrase is only popular among people who support terrorism.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinians are not HAMAS!?
SUBTOPIC: Statehood
※→ et al,

Without regard to what is written into law, the Israelis have control

Sorry but HAMAS is not a "State" and Gaza is not a country.

(COMMENT)

Yes, I have argued this point many times.I believe you are correct. But I'm just an old fogy who sees this current generation making chaotic decisions. HAMAS is (practically speaking) a Terrorist Organization with political control over the Gaza Strip. Some would say that HAMAS is a State Sponsored Terrorist Organization.

A/RES/67/19 (which is not law) Titled: Status of Palestine in the United Nations is rather problematic.

• Recognizing also that, to date, 132 States Members of the United Nations have accorded recognition to the State of Palestine,

• Decides to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;

UN Memorandum from Under-Secretary-General tor Legal Affairs, The Legal Counsel 12 Dec 2012. Pay close attention to the very first sentence.

​

So, now we a quasi-Self-Governing State (Palestine) with fictitious borders.
Then there is the Treaty between Jordan and Israel that says:

ANNEX I (A). ISRAEL-JORDAN INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY DELIMITATION AND DEMARCATION​

1. It is agreed that, in accordance with Article 3 of the Treaty, the international boundary between the two states consists of the following sectors:​

A. The Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers.​

B. The Dead Sea.​

C. The Emek Ha'arava/Wadi Araba.​

D. The Gulf of Aqaba.​

​

2. The boundary is delimited as follows:​

​

Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers.-​

1 .The boundary line shall follow the middle of the main course of the flow of the Jor- dan and Yarmouk Rivers.​

​

Basically, the the treaty (1994) puts the entire West Bank (formerly Jordanian Sovereign Territory) in the hands of Israel. Jordan actually withdrew from the West Bank in July 1988, leaving it in the hands of the Israeli Occupation Authority.

​

In the thumbnail form,

​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Grumblenuts]

being a freedom fighter would excuse acts of terrorism. That's why that phrase is only popular among people who support terrorism.

General examples? Name names..

 

[Dadoalex]

RE: Palestinians are not HAMAS!?
SUBTOPIC: Statehood
※→ et al,

Without regard to what is written into law, the Israelis have control


(COMMENT)

Yes, I have argued this point many times.I believe you are correct. But I'm just an old fogy who sees this current generation making chaotic decisions. HAMAS is (practically speaking) a Terrorist Organization with political control over the Gaza Strip. Some would say that HAMAS is a State Sponsored Terrorist Organization.

A/RES/67/19 (which is not law) Titled: Status of Palestine in the United Nations is rather problematic.

• Recognizing also that, to date, 132 States Members of the United Nations have accorded recognition to the State of Palestine,
• Decides to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;

UN Memorandum from Under-Secretary-General tor Legal Affairs, The Legal Counsel 12 Dec 2012. Pay close attention to the very first sentence.

View attachment 845898
​

So, now we a quasi-Self-Governing State (Palestine) with fictitious borders.
Then there is the Treaty between Jordan and Israel that says:

ANNEX I (A). ISRAEL-JORDAN INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY DELIMITATION AND DEMARCATION​

1. It is agreed that, in accordance with Article 3 of the Treaty, the international boundary between the two states consists of the following sectors:​

A. The Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers.​

B. The Dead Sea.​

C. The Emek Ha'arava/Wadi Araba.​

D. The Gulf of Aqaba.​

​

2. The boundary is delimited as follows:​

​

​

Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers.-​

1 .The boundary line shall follow the middle of the main course of the flow of the Jor- dan and Yarmouk Rivers.​

​

Basically, the the treaty (1994) puts the entire West Bank (formerly Jordanian Sovereign Territory) in the hands of Israel. Jordan actually withdrew from the West Bank in July 1988, leaving it in the hands of the Israeli Occupation Authority.

​

In the thumbnail form,

​

Most Respectfully,
R

No arguments here.
My position is that there are no "heroes" here and supporting either side is simply prolonging a 3000 year old religious argument.

I have no solutions short of damning them all.

BUT

Imagine if in 1980 and beyond we had pursued Carter's move away from fossils as rigorously as we pursue more and more fossils...
None of this would matter at all.

Hindsight...

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinians are not HAMAS!?
SUBTOPIC: Justification for Terrorism
※→ toomuchtime, sparky, et al,

There is no justification for terrorism. That is not my original thought, but from many different learners from around the world. Having said that, leaders will do, although hesitant → with reservations and trepidation, what they feel is necessary.

Do tell TMT , one can be seen as both, depending on perspective & objectivity

(COMMENT)

Yes, it is dependent upon "perspective and objectivity." But if you ask this question directly to a terrorist leader, why they exist and why they need to conduct such acts of terrorism, they will not say that they are unnecessary. There will always be some compelling “pseudo-justification." They will not say, that their optics are blurred. From their "perspective and objectivity" they see the need for for terrorist acts quite clearly.

You are still unable to see the issue clearly. One can be fighting for freedom of some sort and commit acts of terrorism and hence be both a freedom fighter and a terrorist. As you phrase the issue, being a freedom fighter would excuse acts of terrorism. That's why that phrase is only popular among people who support terrorism.

(COMMENT)

Without regard to the nomenclature (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, Special Operators, or Active Covert Assets) your use of assymmetric combatants, to send a message of fear - that you should be afraid, for yourself, for your wife and children, for your neighbors and friends, as another practical way of achieving some political outcome by other means, then that is the use of terror. When a target begins to posture themselves, as if a danger from you may come at any time, from any direction, through any means, because you told them we are coming for them → that is the use of terror.

The use of terrorism, comes in many forms. And not all of them are recognized as acts of terrorism. Is the use of terrorism always bad? it depends on your professional perspective.

For many people, just the mere letter from the IRS asking you to come in to their office, strikes fear in the hearts of many citizens. That is the use of fear to achieve a goal by other means.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[sparky]

The use of terrorism, comes in many forms. And not all of them are recognized as acts of terrorism.

~S~

 

[The Duke]

Man, I've purposefully tried to stay out of these Middle East threads.

They almost always get turned into a glorified pecker waving contest.

This arbitrary labeling of people as terrorists/terrorist supporters, however, is going mainstream (at least that seems to be the intent) and the coercion to do that to people will likely turn around and bite Americans in the rear end, though. Watch and see. Because of it, our own slimy elements of government are likely watering at their chops and being given all of the justification/support by the useful idiots that it needs on a silver platter to do the very same thing they did in such instances where parents got mad about what was going on in schools. They ended up in the crosshairs of the intelligence agencies and they immediately started popping off about needing legislation to ''combat'' them. It always works the same way.

The theme over the last year or so has observably been to create the illusion that America is under seige by its own electorate. This'll be just one more brick in the wall. Another designated victim status group will be seeded and invoked by playing on emotion in order to further justify the usurp, so long as the discussion continues to remain dominated by and maintained strictly as being ''everybody hates the joos.''

Why do you think these NGOs are planting all of these recent pro-Palestine vs Pro-Israel rallies in the cities all of a sudden? It's divide and conquer 101. Of course, the talking heads on the cable news entertainment programming platforms jump on the bandwagon and do their part to gaslight it from the convenience of their teleprompters. They know what they're doing. Same game, different day.

Nobody has noticed that nothing is coming out of The West Bank who are also Palestinians?

Has Israel bombed any of their buildings?

 

[Natural Citizen]

Nobody has noticed that nothing is coming out of The West Bank who are also Palestinians?

Has Israel bombed any of their buildings?

There's a lot to say about that, Duke. But you're right.

There's geo-political strategy at play here.

Unfortunately, this just isn't the forum for that level of dialogue. Collectively speaking anyway.

 

[sparky]

Unfortunately, this just isnlt the forum for that level of dialogue.

At the moment no, Natty

~S~

 

[The Duke]

There's a lot to say about that, Duke. But you're right.

There's geo-political strategy at play here.

Unfortunately, this just isn't the forum for that level of dialogue. Collectively speaking anyway.

The warmongers are salivating and making all kinds of plans.

 

[Natural Citizen]

At the moment no, Natty

~S~

I'm not holding my breath, sparky.

Anyway. I'm more concerned with the sad state of affairs in our own country.

Which seems to be suddenly forgotten, collectively speaking.