Gee, Mark Twain was a journalist with a discerning eye before he started writing fiction. I can also remember posters bringing up information from other travelers who visited a long time ago and they also didn't notice many Arabs, mainly Bedouins. We realize that for your cause, you wouldn't want to believe anything one of these travelers wrote.
Palestine before Zionism
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Gee, Mark Twain was a journalist with a discerning eye before he started writing fiction. I can also remember posters bringing up information from other travelers who visited a long time ago and they also didn't notice many Arabs, mainly Bedouins. We realize that for your cause, you wouldn't want to believe anything one of these travelers wrote.
Indeependent
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P F Tinmore
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They didn't. The international borders of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Palestine remained unchanged by the war.
None of them lost any land.
amity1844
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for reasons why Israel's borders expanded, see the Plan Dalet post:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/358303-plan-dalet-al-nakba.html
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Indeependent
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Ah yes, the all powerful Jews, who, for some mysterious reason, can't seem to rid themselves of the West Bank Jordanians.
You're getting real old real fast.
By the way, how about that LEGAL purchase of land from Arabs who had to expel their fellow Arabs?
Why, Amity, I am not on a mission like you are, as I think the viewers are quite aware of that by now. I don't save loads of stuff in my computer like you do. Mainly I read something and then go on, unlike you whose computer is probably about ready to blow up. However, regardless of how much you save in your computer to try to get all those Arabs back into Israel, they are not going to be allowed to. My God, imagine if someone was like Amity after World War II where millions and millions were displaced and was constantly whining and whining about getting back, especially since their ancestors had lived in those countries for thousands of years?
Lipush
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Israel before 1948 is "before Zionism"?
Are you high?
If course before 1948 there is no wilderness.
Because the towns were built there, by my grandparents and their friends.
amity1844
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I thought of that later, the original term was "without Zionism" but you can't go back and change a thread title.
Some of these images are before Zionism, some after, but all are WITHOUT Zionism.
and don't be ridiculous, obviously the towns weren't built by your grandparents and their friends!
Lipush
Gold Member
Actually they were.
My great-grandfather was the Rabbi Dov Rodevsky. He, along with about a dozen other religious workers, were the one to build with their hands the town called Mazkeret Batya., in central Israel
Yep, my grandfather built a town. From scratch.
Many of the ones to come with him were the actual builders of Israeli towns.
Now, you were saying?
amity1844
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A town, yes. The implication of your post is that there WERE no towns prior to your grandfather building them.
I am sure you realize that many of the towns of Palestine date back to ancient times. Kafr Kana was the Biblical Cana for example.
I am sure you realize that many of the towns of Palestine date back to ancient times. Kafr Kana was the Biblical Cana for example.
Lipush
Gold Member
You do that biblical times talk about Israelite ancient inheritance.
amity1844
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Politics of archaeology in Israel:
Politics of Archaeology in Israel and Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Politics of Archaeology in Israel and Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jerusalem, Palestinian right?
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You do know what happens when you win a war? You get the spoils, including those Palestinian Arab towns. They were crushed in multiple engagements with Israel after 1948, thusly, they have little territory of their own to call home.
Gee, I wonder why that is, amity?
The problem isn't with 'Zionists' denying that there were Arab towns in the land: it's the denial that there were JEWS living in places like Sfat, which was a very important center of Torah study.
Safed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hostility's insistence that there were so very many 'Palestinian Arab' towns raises the question of 'How did it get that way?' And if we read the article above we can easily see how it all happened. Unfortunately, the actual history blows away the fantasy of 'peaceful coexistence' and the BIG LIE of 'protection' by the Muslim majority.
Safed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hostility's insistence that there were so very many 'Palestinian Arab' towns raises the question of 'How did it get that way?' And if we read the article above we can easily see how it all happened. Unfortunately, the actual history blows away the fantasy of 'peaceful coexistence' and the BIG LIE of 'protection' by the Muslim majority.
amity1844
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Mark Twain:
These descriptions of the often quoted non-arable areas few people would inhabit are as Twain says, "by contrast" to occasional scenes of arable land and productive agriculture: "The narrow canon in which Nablous, or Shechem, is situated, is under high cultivation, and the soil is exceedingly black and fertile. It is well watered, and its affluent vegetation gains effect by contrast with the barren hills that tower on either side"..."Sometimes, in the glens, we came upon luxuriant orchards of figs, apricots, pomegranates, and such things, but oftener the scenery was rugged, mountainous, verdureless and forbidding"..."We came finally to the noble grove of orange-trees in which the Oriental city of Jaffa lies buried"..."Small shreds and patches of it must be very beautiful in the full flush of spring, however, and all the more beautiful by contrast with the far-reaching desolation that surrounds them on every side [32]
Bayard Taylor who wrote of the Jezreel Valley in 1852 ".. one of the richest districts in the world"..."The soil is a dark-brown loam, and, without manure, produces annually superb crops of wheat and barley."[33] Laurence Oliphant wrote in 1887, again of the Valley of Jezreel "..a huge green lake of waving wheat, with its village-crowned mounds rising from it like islands ... it presents one of the most striking pictures of luxuriant fertility which it is possible to conceive"[34]
Kathleen Christison, an American author who spent sixteen years as an analyst for the CIA, was critical of attempts to use Twain's humorous writing as a literal description of Palestine at that time. She writes that "Twain's descriptions are high in Israeli government press handouts that present a case for Israel's redemption of a land that had previously been empty and barren. His gross characterizations of the land and the people in the time before mass Jewish immigration are also often used by US propagandists for Israel."[35] For example she noted that Twain described the Samaritans of Nablus at length without mentioning the much larger Arab population at all.[36] The Arab population of Nablus at the time was about 20,000.[37]
During the 19th century, many residents and visitors attempted to estimate the population without recourse to official data, and came up with a large number of different values. Estimates that are reasonably reliable are only available for the final third of the century, from which period Ottoman population and taxation registers have been preserved.[38]
After a visit to Palestine in 1891, Ahad Ha'am wrote:
From abroad, we are accustomed to believe that Eretz Israel is presently almost totally desolate, an uncultivated desert, and that anyone wishing to buy land there can come and buy all he wants. But in truth it is not so. In the entire land, it is hard to find tillable land that is not already tilled; only sandy fields or stony hills, suitable at best for planting trees or vines and, even that after considerable work and expense in clearing and preparing them- only these remain unworked. ... Many of our people who came to buy land have been in Eretz Israel for months, and have toured its length and width, without finding what they seek.[39]
In 1852 the American writer Bayard Taylor traveled across the Jezreel Valley, which he described in his 1854 book The Lands of the Saracen; or, Pictures of Palestine, Asia Minor, Sicily and Spain as: "one of the richest districts in the world.",[40]
while Lawrence Oliphant, who visited Palestine in 1887, wrote that Palestine's Valley of Esdraelon was "a huge green lake of waving wheat, with its village-crowned mounds rising from it like islands; and it presents one of the most striking pictures of luxuriant fertility which it is possible to conceive."[41]
According to Paul Masson, a French economic historian, "wheat shipments from the Palestinian port of Acre had helped to save southern France from famine on numerous occasions in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries."[42]
In 1856 H.B. Tristram said of Palestine "A few years ago the whole Ghor (Jordan Valley) was in the hands of the fellaheen, and much of it cultivated for corn. Now the whole of it is in the hands of the Bedouin, who eschew all agriculture…The same thing is now going on over the plain of Sharon where….land is going out of cultivation and whole villages rapidly disappeared….Since the year 1838, no less than twenty villages there have thus erased from the map, and the stationary population extirpated."[43]
From Wikipedia.
Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(region)[/QUOTE]
These descriptions of the often quoted non-arable areas few people would inhabit are as Twain says, "by contrast" to occasional scenes of arable land and productive agriculture: "The narrow canon in which Nablous, or Shechem, is situated, is under high cultivation, and the soil is exceedingly black and fertile. It is well watered, and its affluent vegetation gains effect by contrast with the barren hills that tower on either side"..."Sometimes, in the glens, we came upon luxuriant orchards of figs, apricots, pomegranates, and such things, but oftener the scenery was rugged, mountainous, verdureless and forbidding"..."We came finally to the noble grove of orange-trees in which the Oriental city of Jaffa lies buried"..."Small shreds and patches of it must be very beautiful in the full flush of spring, however, and all the more beautiful by contrast with the far-reaching desolation that surrounds them on every side [32]
Bayard Taylor who wrote of the Jezreel Valley in 1852 ".. one of the richest districts in the world"..."The soil is a dark-brown loam, and, without manure, produces annually superb crops of wheat and barley."[33] Laurence Oliphant wrote in 1887, again of the Valley of Jezreel "..a huge green lake of waving wheat, with its village-crowned mounds rising from it like islands ... it presents one of the most striking pictures of luxuriant fertility which it is possible to conceive"[34]
Kathleen Christison, an American author who spent sixteen years as an analyst for the CIA, was critical of attempts to use Twain's humorous writing as a literal description of Palestine at that time. She writes that "Twain's descriptions are high in Israeli government press handouts that present a case for Israel's redemption of a land that had previously been empty and barren. His gross characterizations of the land and the people in the time before mass Jewish immigration are also often used by US propagandists for Israel."[35] For example she noted that Twain described the Samaritans of Nablus at length without mentioning the much larger Arab population at all.[36] The Arab population of Nablus at the time was about 20,000.[37]
During the 19th century, many residents and visitors attempted to estimate the population without recourse to official data, and came up with a large number of different values. Estimates that are reasonably reliable are only available for the final third of the century, from which period Ottoman population and taxation registers have been preserved.[38]
After a visit to Palestine in 1891, Ahad Ha'am wrote:
From abroad, we are accustomed to believe that Eretz Israel is presently almost totally desolate, an uncultivated desert, and that anyone wishing to buy land there can come and buy all he wants. But in truth it is not so. In the entire land, it is hard to find tillable land that is not already tilled; only sandy fields or stony hills, suitable at best for planting trees or vines and, even that after considerable work and expense in clearing and preparing them- only these remain unworked. ... Many of our people who came to buy land have been in Eretz Israel for months, and have toured its length and width, without finding what they seek.[39]
In 1852 the American writer Bayard Taylor traveled across the Jezreel Valley, which he described in his 1854 book The Lands of the Saracen; or, Pictures of Palestine, Asia Minor, Sicily and Spain as: "one of the richest districts in the world.",[40]
while Lawrence Oliphant, who visited Palestine in 1887, wrote that Palestine's Valley of Esdraelon was "a huge green lake of waving wheat, with its village-crowned mounds rising from it like islands; and it presents one of the most striking pictures of luxuriant fertility which it is possible to conceive."[41]
According to Paul Masson, a French economic historian, "wheat shipments from the Palestinian port of Acre had helped to save southern France from famine on numerous occasions in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries."[42]
In 1856 H.B. Tristram said of Palestine "A few years ago the whole Ghor (Jordan Valley) was in the hands of the fellaheen, and much of it cultivated for corn. Now the whole of it is in the hands of the Bedouin, who eschew all agriculture…The same thing is now going on over the plain of Sharon where….land is going out of cultivation and whole villages rapidly disappeared….Since the year 1838, no less than twenty villages there have thus erased from the map, and the stationary population extirpated."[43]
From Wikipedia.
Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(region)[/QUOTE]
Last edited:
Roudy
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Population of Jerusalem was majority Jewish from the mid 1800's to the early 1900's.
That is, before the Arabs invaded.
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