Pakistan two weeks from collapse?

[Bootneck]

Well, the rhetoric is being ramped up. Will Pakistan agree to allow US and NATO troops in to help oust the Taliban and foreign insurgents from north west Pak? They sure as hell are not capable of doing it themselves it seems. If not, what next? The ramifications don't bear thinking about.

There may be just two weeks left to prevent the Taliban from overthrowing Pakistan’s government, Gen David Petraeus, the commander of American forces in the region, has told officials

American officials have watched with growing anxiety as Taliban fighters have strengthened their grip on north-western Pakistan.
Militants advanced to within 60 miles of Islamabad, the capital, last month and were pushed back only when the US put pressure on Pakistan to launch a counter-offensive.

Gen Petraeus, the head of Central Command, which covers all US forces in the Middle East and south Asia, is reported to have said that “the Pakistanis have run out of excuses” and now accept that tough action has to be taken to guarantee the government’s survival.
Gen Petraeus, who oversaw the American troop surge credited with quelling the insurgency in Iraq, is reported to have wearied of Pakistan’s excuses for failing to take on the Taliban.
According to Fox News, he told colleagues “we have heard it all before”.
He is reported to have urged concrete action to destroy the Taliban in the next two weeks before determining the United States’ next course of action.

US general says Pakistan could be two weeks from collapse - Telegraph

 

[Toro]

I cannot imagine the Taliban could overthrow the government of Pakistan on its own. The only group that can do that is the armed forces, which are by far the most powerful institution in the country. There are elements within the army and secret service that are sympathetic to the Taliban, but its hard to see the army acquiescing to the Taliban. If the Taliban were ever to come to power in Pakistan, it could only be because the army has allowed it. And since the US doesn't want to see the Taliban gain power in Pakistan, its hard to see the army allowing it, since much of the weapons Pakistan buys are from the US.

 

[strollingbones]

toro i think you are underestimating the numbers that will leave the army to join the taliban....its a whole different culture and they want the religious rules etc...

 

[strollingbones]

more importantly this will allow devastation of our troops in that area....its a rough geographic area and good for quick attacks and quick retreats....correct me if i am wrong bootneck...

 

[Toro]

toro i think you are underestimating the numbers that will leave the army to join the taliban....its a whole different culture and they want the religious rules etc...

As I understand it, I don't think this would be the case. The Taliban-inspired part of the population is a minority in Pakistan. Most of the armed forces are not radical. Many who go into the armed forces do so because it offers a relatively stable life and a pathway to a career. Unlike Afghanistan, Pakistan is not anarchy. It is a difficult country to govern but it has a well-established commercial class and judiciary. It is not ruled by warlords fighting over control of the drug trade, as is the case in Afghanistan. The army is a central authority that keeps the country together. Many if not most Pakistanis have more faith in the armed forces as an institution than the civilian government, which is often seen as venal and corrupt, for good reason.

 

[editec]

Well, the rhetoric is being ramped up. Will Pakistan agree to allow US and NATO troops in to help oust the Taliban and foreign insurgents from north west Pak? They sure as hell are not capable of doing it themselves it seems. If not, what next? The ramifications don't bear thinking about.

There may be just two weeks left to prevent the Taliban from overthrowing Pakistan’s government, Gen David Petraeus, the commander of American forces in the region, has told officials

American officials have watched with growing anxiety as Taliban fighters have strengthened their grip on north-western Pakistan.
Militants advanced to within 60 miles of Islamabad, the capital, last month and were pushed back only when the US put pressure on Pakistan to launch a counter-offensive.

Gen Petraeus, the head of Central Command, which covers all US forces in the Middle East and south Asia, is reported to have said that “the Pakistanis have run out of excuses” and now accept that tough action has to be taken to guarantee the government’s survival.
Gen Petraeus, who oversaw the American troop surge credited with quelling the insurgency in Iraq, is reported to have wearied of Pakistan’s excuses for failing to take on the Taliban.
According to Fox News, he told colleagues “we have heard it all before”.
He is reported to have urged concrete action to destroy the Taliban in the next two weeks before determining the United States’ next course of action.

US general says Pakistan could be two weeks from collapse - Telegraph

Here's the thing...I suspect that if the Pakistani cannot stop the Taliban, it's not for a lack of men or equipment...it's for a lack of will.


And if it IS for that lack of will, then our entry into that fray isn't really protecting a nation from another nation, it's us involved in still another CIVIL WAR.

We don't typically do well interferring in CVIL WARS, do we?

What I think we're looking at is the outcome of our interference in that area of the world.

We are destabilizing governments there by our very presense.

WE are probably the motivation for people joining the Taliban to begin with.

By giving these people an outside enemy, we give them purpose and unity they wouldn't otherwise have.

Get the NUKES OUT and then do NOT, do NOT do NOT send in US troops.

Seriously...if Obama sends troops into Pakistan it will be the biggest mistake we have made in a looooooooooooooooog line of mistakes in that area.

 

[Bootneck]

I cannot imagine the Taliban could overthrow the government of Pakistan on its own. The only group that can do that is the armed forces, which are by far the most powerful institution in the country. There are elements within the army and secret service that are sympathetic to the Taliban, but its hard to see the army acquiescing to the Taliban. If the Taliban were ever to come to power in Pakistan, it could only be because the army has allowed it. And since the US doesn't want to see the Taliban gain power in Pakistan, its hard to see the army allowing it, since much of the weapons Pakistan buys are from the US.

Well, I don’t believe Pakistan is as close to falling as General Petraeus says. This is all part of ramping up the pressure on the Pak government. However, I do believe, given the current circumstances, that the government could topple within a year. And the Taliban wouldn’t have to take Islamabad to achieve that. They already control much of the Tribal Regions in the north west, but more than that, their influence covers almost the whole country. The Taliban have been very successful in projecting their mission as a class war and the poor and disaffected, particularly the unemployed youth, are flocking to their cause. I think we may find that when push comes to shove, the army would face problems in rather more than the tribal regions.

Another significant factor is the degree to which the country is split. The government has lost the support of many of its people and with the militants feeding off the long neglect of its poor, military force alone ain’t going to halt the insurgency. The government will need to win back the support of the people, and that’s quite an ask. Incidentally, some recent research conducted by the US showed that 63% of the population was opposed to co-operating with the United States.

The army and security force are also split. It’s no secret that the army and the ISI have a highly ambiguous relationship with the Taliban and Islamist militancy, but there is serious rift within the Pakistan army between the rank and file and officers; between senior officers and junior officers and within the officer class as a whole, between Islamist and moderate. Not a situation that bodes well for a quick victory over The Taliban and religious militancy.

Remember also that the Pak army previously mounted a campaign against AQ and the militants after the assassination attempts on Musharraf. They got their arses thoroughly tanned. With the losses sustained by the army, Musharraf caved in and negotiated a peace accord that ceded Waziristan to the militants.

 

[Bootneck]

more importantly this will allow devastation of our troops in that area....its a rough geographic area and good for quick attacks and quick retreats....correct me if i am wrong bootneck...

You're not wrong Bones. Tank country it ain't. Aerial bombardment and good old fashioned foot slogging.

 

[Bootneck]

Here's the thing...I suspect that if the Pakistani cannot stop the Taliban, it's not for a lack of men or equipment...it's for a lack of will.

Yes. Partly. A lack of will due to an ideology problem.

Having developed unconventional capabilities such as the covert arming and training of Islamic insurgents to fight in Kashmir and latterly, Afghanistan, they are now being asked to wipe them out.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Seems the crisis has past.

 

[adeel_sami]

It should collapse now ..

 

[Carrick]

Pakistani people are nice and loving but the polititions are spoiling the Pakistan's career there is need to accountability of politicians.