Over Half Americans Against Arming Ukraine

Eddie Priest

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Last week, the US Senate urged Secretary of State John Kerry to provide Ukraine with "defensive" weapons. Kiev troops have been fighting independence militias in the country's South-East since April 2014. The West accuses Russia of providing military aid to the pro-independence fighters, which Moscow denies.

Over Half Americans Against Arming Ukraine Poll Sputnik International
The U.S. citizens are reasonable and just. they don't need any war of course. But it's in their hands the possibility to change the war policy their government has chosen. And what do you think about it?
 

Geaux4it

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Last week, the US Senate urged Secretary of State John Kerry to provide Ukraine with "defensive" weapons. Kiev troops have been fighting independence militias in the country's South-East since April 2014. The West accuses Russia of providing military aid to the pro-independence fighters, which Moscow denies.

Over Half Americans Against Arming Ukraine Poll Sputnik International
The U.S. citizens are reasonable and just. they don't need any war of course. But it's in their hands the possibility to change the war policy their government has chosen. And what do you think about it?
Americans of date aren't very smart..... and they vote...... So anything is possible

-Geaux
 

RandomVariable

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Hey, Geaux, there's nothing stopping you from volunteering to go over to the Ukraine and help them fight.

I don't see why it's any of our business.
Do you think Putin seeks to control the Ukraine?
 

JoeB131

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Hey, Geaux, there's nothing stopping you from volunteering to go over to the Ukraine and help them fight.

I don't see why it's any of our business.
Do you think Putin seeks to control the Ukraine?
I think Putin seeks to control the parts of the Ukraine that are Russian dominated. If he wanted to take over the Ukraine, his army could overrun it easily and it's not like anyone is going to risk WWIII over it.
 

Mad Scientist

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Quiz Time! Which Current Vice President's Son is a Director at a Ukrainian Shale Gas company?

A. Agnew
B. Biden
C. Cheney
D. Evil Jooooz!

30 seconds.
 

Kondor3

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"Ahhhhh, Daniel-san... you do karate, yes... you do karate, no... but you do karate kayso... squish, like grape!"

A great many folks are probably against involvement in Ukraine because (1) we're a bit war-weary at the moment and (2) we're bound to do whatever-we-do half-assed, so... squish, like grape. Besides... Obumble is the wrong hand at the wheel, during any serious war.
 
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JoeB131

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A great many folks are probably against involvement in Ukraine because (1) we're a bit war-weary at the moment and (2) we're bound to do whatever-we-do half-assed, so... squish, like grape. Besides... Obumble is the wrong hand at the wheel, during any serious war.
I'm against involvement in the Ukraine because I think those bitches are getting EXACTLY what they deserve.

Let's review, for those playing along at home. The Ukraine had a national election that even Jimmy Carter thought was fair. A combination of Russians and Ukrainians voted in this government, which then proceeded to negotiate with both the EU and Russia for trade deals.

Russia offered the MUCH BETTER deal than the EU. But a minority decided to topple- again- the legitimately elected government. At that point, the Ukraine's Russians decided they had about enough of this shit and decided they'd rather be part of Russia than Part of the Ukraine.

But the EU decided, "Meh, let's support the revolutionary government that has no popular mandate".

Frankly, we need Putin as a partner in the international arena in Syria, in Iran, in North Korea. Ukraine is just a fucking basket case no matter who ends up picking up her bills.
 

RandomVariable

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"Ahhhhh, Daniel-san... you do karate, yes... you do karate, no... but you do karate kayso... squish, like grape!"

A great many folks are probably against involvement in Ukraine because (1) we're a bit war-weary at the moment and (2) we're bound to do whatever-we-do half-assed, so... squish, like grape. Besides... Obumble is the wrong hand at the wheel, during any serious war.
I do hope I am wrong about this but General Breedlove, Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, seems woefully under qualified. Although he is/was, now retired, a Navy guy I think Admiral Stavridis, the previous Commander, would have been excellent.
 

RandomVariable

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Hey, Geaux, there's nothing stopping you from volunteering to go over to the Ukraine and help them fight.

I don't see why it's any of our business.
Do you think Putin seeks to control the Ukraine?
I think Putin seeks to control the parts of the Ukraine that are Russian dominated. If he wanted to take over the Ukraine, his army could overrun it easily and it's not like anyone is going to risk WWIII over it.
I do not think there is any question Putin is moving south, to complete the route to Crimea. He is most likely going north if the going south seems relatively abated from efforts so far, which have been hardly anything. Nationalism in Russia is approaching World War levels and that is only going to increase with every military victory Putin has.
 

RandomVariable

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And Putin's recent chants of "War would be awful." sounds most like, "Everyone cooperates and no one gets hurt."
 

JoeB131

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I do not think there is any question Putin is moving south, to complete the route to Crimea. He is most likely going north if the going south seems relatively abated from efforts so far, which have been hardly anything. Nationalism in Russia is approaching World War levels and that is only going to increase with every military victory Putin has.
So what? No matter how many "victories" he has, he's not going to recreate the USSR. So he takes half the Ukraine. So what?
 

RandomVariable

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I do not think there is any question Putin is moving south, to complete the route to Crimea. He is most likely going north if the going south seems relatively abated from efforts so far, which have been hardly anything. Nationalism in Russia is approaching World War levels and that is only going to increase with every military victory Putin has.
So what? No matter how many "victories" he has, he's not going to recreate the USSR. So he takes half the Ukraine. So what?
A year or two ago I was looking over a world map and thinking about who was aligning with whom. It called to mind what I heard of what some were saying right before world war one, "Yeah, there are alliance and people are building up militaries but the world it too advanced. It is now more about economics than military conquest. Weapons are too powerful. Modern technology eliminates the actually possibility of war. It will never happen." You will probably not believe this but, WW I happened. There was even one after that. Might even be another yet. Especially if people keep thinking as you do.
 

hipeter924

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Did a quick map.

Key:
  • What the rebels already have or will soon have all of (in red)
  • What they are fighting for as well (in orange)
  • What they could want in the future (in green)
  • What is essentially a toss up (in yellow)
  • Areas that Ukraine could probably hold onto (in blue)
 
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JoeB131

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A year or two ago I was looking over a world map and thinking about who was aligning with whom. It called to mind what I heard of what some were saying right before world war one, "Yeah, there are alliance and people are building up militaries but the world it too advanced. It is now more about economics than military conquest. Weapons are too powerful. Modern technology eliminates the actually possibility of war. It will never happen." You will probably not believe this but, WW I happened. There was even one after that. Might even be another yet. Especially if people keep thinking as you do.
What caused World War I was rich people profiting off of War. Until people rose up and threw them out of power.
 

Kondor3

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A great many folks are probably against involvement in Ukraine because (1) we're a bit war-weary at the moment and (2) we're bound to do whatever-we-do half-assed, so... squish, like grape. Besides... Obumble is the wrong hand at the wheel, during any serious war.
I'm against involvement in the Ukraine because I think those bitches are getting EXACTLY what they deserve.

Let's review, for those playing along at home. The Ukraine had a national election that even Jimmy Carter thought was fair. A combination of Russians and Ukrainians voted in this government, which then proceeded to negotiate with both the EU and Russia for trade deals.

Russia offered the MUCH BETTER deal than the EU. But a minority decided to topple- again- the legitimately elected government. At that point, the Ukraine's Russians decided they had about enough of this shit and decided they'd rather be part of Russia than Part of the Ukraine.

But the EU decided, "Meh, let's support the revolutionary government that has no popular mandate".

Frankly, we need Putin as a partner in the international arena in Syria, in Iran, in North Korea. Ukraine is just a fucking basket case no matter who ends up picking up her bills.
Unfortunately, I agree with you on this, in very large part.
 

Kondor3

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A year or two ago I was looking over a world map and thinking about who was aligning with whom. It called to mind what I heard of what some were saying right before world war one, "Yeah, there are alliance and people are building up militaries but the world it too advanced. It is now more about economics than military conquest. Weapons are too powerful. Modern technology eliminates the actually possibility of war. It will never happen." You will probably not believe this but, WW I happened. There was even one after that. Might even be another yet. Especially if people keep thinking as you do.
What caused World War I was rich people profiting off of War. Until people rose up and threw them out of power.
I tend to subscribe to the Family Squabble Rationale for WWI - with an unhealthy dose of imperial arrogance and manifest destiny tossed-in for good measure.
 

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