Our Sixty Year War on Poverty

[g5000]

So what did we pay all that money for then? There are more poor blacks now that there were before

I can't do it. I just can't do it. This kind of phenomenal stupidity and innumeracy cannot be penetrated.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Things would be much worse without the War on Poverty, based on how much the economic fortunes of this country have declined in the last 50 years.

Gee.... and there's no correlation between the two, right? We've sunk a gazillion dollars into social spending only to create even more poor and less opportunities.

You leftists just don't get it.. you never learn. You see failure, and demand more of it...

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The supposed "failure" of the War on Poverty is more of a result of the failure of supply side economics than a failure of anti-poverty programs

No, it failed because whenever you throw money at something, you just create more demand for it... which is why as we keep throwing money at the poor, more and more people cop out and go on the dole.

 

[Nosmo King]

Things would be much worse without the War on Poverty, based on how much the economic fortunes of this country have declined in the last 50 years.

That may be the stupidest thing I ever read.

No sane person could believe that.

Those of us who have lived long enough to remember pre Great Society conditions or those who have a deeper understanding of history before they were born realize that it's true.

 

[NYcarbineer]

First of all considering population increases, even a 41% to 27% decrease may not mean the overall # of poor has decreased at all.

Oh. My. God. The stupidity of this statement should simply stand for itself.

Ok, I did the math.

in 1960 there were 18.8 million black people in the US. If you assume a 41% poverty rate, you get 7.7 million poor blacks. In 2012 there are 44 million black people in the US, and a poverty rate of 27% gives 12 million poor black people.

So for all the money we have spent, the problem has gotten worse on a PEOPLE level, actual poor people, not percentages.

We spend money to help the poor be less poor, or not poor. That has nothing to do with an economy that by its nature keeps creating more of the poor.

So if the spending isn't a solution why are we doing it, and more importantly, why support it?

Don't blame the economy for the poor life choices the "war on poverty" subsidizes.

You are falsely assuming that the economy never changes.

Tens of thousands of Chinese doing jobs that Americans used to do might disagree with you. Not to mention all the workers in other foreign countries doing the same.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The supposed "failure" of the War on Poverty is more of a result of the failure of supply side economics than a failure of anti-poverty programs

No, it failed because whenever you throw money at something, you just create more demand for it... which is why as we keep throwing money at the poor, more and more people cop out and go on the dole.

So what would be the positive result for the needy if we ended Medicaid tomorrow?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Things would be much worse without the War on Poverty, based on how much the economic fortunes of this country have declined in the last 50 years.

Maybe they might have actually tried to better themselves instead of expecting government handouts. The fucking horror.....

What the war on poverty forgot was that people may need to be shamed out of working their way out of poor life choices (theirs or their parents). There is nothing wrong with helping people, however we removed the stigma of not being able to care for yourself or your family. Couple that with the basic human fact that if you pay someone for something, you get more of it, we created a system that doesn't create the incentive to get out of the system, it creates an incentive to stay in it, both for those in it, and those running it.

So we'd be better off if none of the millions who've received Medicaid in the last 50 years had never gotten a nickel's worth of healthcare assistance.

Prove it.

prove that we would currently be worse off now if they didn't.

So you can't prove it but won't admit it. lol, that's doubly enjoyable.

By simple math if you need healthcare, but can't afford it, and some 3rd party pays for it, you are better off.

The individual might be better off, but society as a whole may end up paying more than it should.

and you are just butthurt you got your own "gotcha" ably turned on you and can't reply.

awwwww, NYcarbineer has a sadz....

You have not in any way shown how our 'society' would be better if we ended Medicaid tomorrow.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is the War on Poverty™ expensive?

Yep.

A society has to decide if it wants to spend the money. Simple as that.

and when it comes to pass that the money is being spent foolishly, the progressive response is to SPEND MORE! THAT WILL FIX IT!!!

28 percent in poverty down to 9 percent.

50 percent uninsured to 3 percent uninsured.

This is martybegan's idea of "money being spent foolishly".

Yes it is. Keep sucking that government dick, but some of us realize it is money that never should have been spent in the first place because the federal government was never designed to perform these functions.

Where are the great societies on this earth that do nothing to help the poor?

List them.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is the War on Poverty™ expensive?

Yep.

A society has to decide if it wants to spend the money. Simple as that.

and when it comes to pass that the money is being spent foolishly, the progressive response is to SPEND MORE! THAT WILL FIX IT!!!

If you have a smart way of assuring that the needy get the healthcare they need even if they can't afford to pay for it,

why don't you post it?

In detail.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Is the War on Poverty™ expensive?

Yep.

A society has to decide if it wants to spend the money. Simple as that.

and when it comes to pass that the money is being spent foolishly, the progressive response is to SPEND MORE! THAT WILL FIX IT!!!

28 percent in poverty down to 9 percent.

50 percent uninsured to 3 percent uninsured.

This is martybegan's idea of "money being spent foolishly".

Yes it is. Keep sucking that government dick, but some of us realize it is money that never should have been spent in the first place because the federal government was never designed to perform these functions.

Where are the great societies on this earth that do nothing to help the poor?

List them.

Here's two of the more noteworthy failures...

"The New Deal"
"The Great Society"

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Is the War on Poverty™ expensive?

Yep.

A society has to decide if it wants to spend the money. Simple as that.

and when it comes to pass that the money is being spent foolishly, the progressive response is to SPEND MORE! THAT WILL FIX IT!!!

If you have a smart way of assuring that the needy get the healthcare they need even if they can't afford to pay for it,

why don't you post it?

In detail.

There gonna get it like they always get it, and at taxpayer expense.. nothing has changed except that those of us ho have HI, are now paying through the nose for it so that those who don't still don't and we continue to pay for that too.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is the War on Poverty™ expensive?

Yep.

A society has to decide if it wants to spend the money. Simple as that.

and when it comes to pass that the money is being spent foolishly, the progressive response is to SPEND MORE! THAT WILL FIX IT!!!

If you have a smart way of assuring that the needy get the healthcare they need even if they can't afford to pay for it,

why don't you post it?

In detail.

There gonna get it like they always get it, and at taxpayer expense.. nothing has changed except that those of us ho have HI, are now paying through the nose for it so that those who don't still don't and we continue to pay for that too.

Post your better idea. Post your idea that doesn't let the poor sink or swim.

 

[g5000]

Is the War on Poverty™ expensive?

Yep.

A society has to decide if it wants to spend the money. Simple as that.

and when it comes to pass that the money is being spent foolishly, the progressive response is to SPEND MORE! THAT WILL FIX IT!!!

If you have a smart way of assuring that the needy get the healthcare they need even if they can't afford to pay for it,

why don't you post it?

In detail.

There gonna get it like they always get it, and at taxpayer expense.. nothing has changed except that those of us ho have HI, are now paying through the nose for it so that those who don't still don't and we continue to pay for that too.

Post your better idea. Post your idea that doesn't let the poor sink or swim.

I have a better idea, and I have posted it countless times.

First, we should get rid of employer-sponsored health insurance. ESHI bends the cost curve of healthcare up. It's a gigantic labor union boondoggle. Also, the tax exemption it receives is by far the largest tax expenditure in the federal budget.

Second, we should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy every other kind of insurance: Shopping over the phone or on the internet for the best deal, paying only for the options we actually want, from any company in the country that offers insurance. Health insurance can be bundled into existing customer discount package deals. And you don't have any interruption in your health insurance if you change jobs. You also would receive long time customer discounts like you do with every other insurance.

Right now, you are a hostage. You are a hostage to whatever insurance your employer offers. And your company is hostage to whatever insurance companies are allowed to operate in your geographical region. Plus, if you are a small company, you have zero bargaining leverage. What's more, your insurance company is hostage to the medical providers. In short, you are the totally fucked rube at the bottom of a very tall totem pole.

But when you buy auto insurance, the company on the other end of the phone line knows that if you aren't happy with their prices or their service, you are just one phone call away from buying someone else's insurance. "One phone call can save you money in 15 minutes!" Just try getting health insurance today in 15 minutes. Just try threatening to call some other insurance provider if you don't like the one option you are allowed today at your job. See where that gets you.

Third, get the federal government out of the health care market as much as possible. We are living in an insane system where the biggest player in the market gets to write the rules for its competitors. The government gets to extort and bully and hogtie its private sector competitors. How's that bogus bullshit working out for us?

These solutions would drastically lower the cost of health care, leaving the government's role restricted to helping those who have catastrophic illnesses.

 

[g5000]

Ya know...we pick up a huge portion of the national defense tabs for a lot of other countries. I'd like to see how long their budgets would last before exploding if we chucked that cost back onto their laps while they tried to sustain their single payer insurance and all their other social welfare programs at the same time.

We sure as shit would be saving a lot of money if we did that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is the War on Poverty™ expensive?

Yep.

A society has to decide if it wants to spend the money. Simple as that.

and when it comes to pass that the money is being spent foolishly, the progressive response is to SPEND MORE! THAT WILL FIX IT!!!

If you have a smart way of assuring that the needy get the healthcare they need even if they can't afford to pay for it,

why don't you post it?

In detail.

There gonna get it like they always get it, and at taxpayer expense.. nothing has changed except that those of us ho have HI, are now paying through the nose for it so that those who don't still don't and we continue to pay for that too.

Post your better idea. Post your idea that doesn't let the poor sink or swim.

I have a better idea, and I have posted it countless times.

First, we should get rid of employer-sponsored health insurance. ESHI bends the cost curve of healthcare up. It's a gigantic labor union boondoggle. Also, the tax exemption it receives is by far the largest tax expenditure in the federal budget.

Second, we should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy every other kind of insurance: Shopping over the phone or on the internet for the best deal, paying only for the options we actually want, from any company in the country that offers insurance. Health insurance can be bundled into existing customer discount package deals. And you don't have any interruption in your health insurance if you change jobs. You also would receive long time customer discounts like you do with every other insurance.

Right now, you are a hostage. You are a hostage to whatever insurance your employer offers. And your company is hostage to whatever insurance companies are allowed to operate in your geographical region. Plus, if you are a small company, you have zero bargaining leverage. What's more, your insurance company is hostage to the medical providers. In short, you are the totally fucked rube at the bottom of a very tall totem pole.

But when you buy auto insurance, the company on the other end of the phone line knows that if you aren't happy with their prices or their service, you are just one phone call away from buying someone else's insurance. "One phone call can save you money in 15 minutes!" Just try getting health insurance today in 15 minutes. Just try threatening to call some other insurance provider if you don't like the one option you are allowed today at your job. See where that gets you.

Third, get the federal government out of the health care market as much as possible. We are living in an insane system where the biggest player in the market gets to write the rules for its competitors. The government gets to extort and bully and hogtie its private sector competitors. How's that bogus bullshit working out for us?

These solutions would drastically lower the cost of health care, leaving the government's role restricted to helping those who have catastrophic illnesses.

I believe that basic healthcare should be like basic education. Everyone gets access to it, regardless of their ability to pay.

Beyond that, if you want up market, fancy pants healthcare, you're free to buy it out of pocket.

 

[Contumacious]

Our Sixty Year War on Poverty

Is it a "War on Poverty"

or is it a scam perpetrated by corrupt demagogue politicians boldy using US Treasury funds in order to make themselves electable?


.

 

[g5000]

Is it a "War on Poverty"

or is it corrupt demagogue politicians boldy using US Treasury funds in order to make themselves electable?


.

Oh, there's a lot of that.

"Elect me, and I will make fraud legal and then bail out your bank with taxpayer funds when you crash and burn."

"Elect me, and I will build a moon base."


America's new motto: "Gimme, gimme, gimme, and make that guy over there pay for it."

 

[Staidhup]

Poverty in America can only be cured by overhauling education, allowing free market competition by use of vouchers will pit charters, public, and privates schools against one other in competition for students, increase teacher competency, accountability, and most importantly empower families the ability to provide their children with an opportunity to succeed. State regulations restricting the expansion of charter schools should be prohibited by federal law. Dismantle the federal department of education, turn it our to the states and communities to administer. States already have the responsibility, now allow them total autonomy and control. Adoption of national bench marks are and should be nothing more than a tool to provide states and communities the ability to measure teacher competency, furthermore, the department doesn't require a $69 billion dollar discretionary budget, turn it over to the states.

As for the insurance industry, here is another institution requiring total deregulation. Insurance policies available in one state should be available to all states. Once state barriers are torn down free market competition will force decreased rates, and lobbyists will lose their stranglehold over politicians in Washington.
The war on poverty can only be won by increasing opportunity, not by enabling incompetency.

 

[g5000]

Poverty in America can only be cured by overhauling education

Absolutely. Education is a factor in just about every single issue we face today. It is THE most important factor in getting this country back on the road to greatness.

 

[rightwinger]

The supposed "failure" of the War on Poverty is more of a result of the failure of supply side economics than a failure of anti-poverty programs

No, it failed because whenever you throw money at something, you just create more demand for it... which is why as we keep throwing money at the poor, more and more people cop out and go on the dole.

Making sure people have food to eat and a roof over their head is not throwing money away.
Anti poverty programs failed because the capitalists never delivered on those trickle down jobs that were promised