Open season on illegals in AZ?

[peter]

Under the new law, police will identify illegal immigrants, beginning a process that will lead to their deportation. This makes any interaction with the police dangerous for them, and effectively eliminates the police as a source of protection for them.

Suppose a crime, such as robbery, assault, or rape, is committed against an illegal immigrant. If the victim reports the crime to the police, he or she will be deported. By comparison, the perpetrator faces lesser consequences than the victim even if caught and convicted, which is rather unlikely after the victim and potential witnesses are deported, or prevented from coming forward by the threat of deportation.

It seems that when the new law goes into effect, we have free rein to do whatever we want to the wetbacks. Have fun. Just be careful not to target anybody who's here legally.

Word to the wetbacks: pack your bags, or pack heat. You're on your own now.

errr ... what about moving to another state ?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Inevitably, crimes will go unreported, investigations will be hindered, and criminals will escape justice.

And the truth is I don't give a shit.

You don't give a shit about criminals escaping justice? The criminal's next victim could be somebody you do care about. You're so gung-ho to hurt illegal immigrants that you don't care if you hurt legal residents in the process.

Being bad for them doesn't automatically make the law good for us. If I thought that this law was bad for the half million people who are in Arizona illegally and good for the seven million people who are here legally, I'd love it. This law doesn't pass that test. It's bad for them, and it's also bad for us. It's not as bad for us as it is for them, but that doesn't mean it's good for us. It's just a really bad idea all around.

So you think it's a good idea to have no clue who is coming into your country. I know a couple of ex cons can they move into your house? Hey they deserve a nice place to live, and it doesn't matter that you don't know them.

I do not want to "hurt" anyone. But i do want those who are here illegally to go home. Where ever that may be. Every illegal that leaves the country is good for us. Not my fault you are too blinded with love for them that you can't see that.

 

[Meister]

It seems that almost all the media, and all the liberals think that the illegals are not a burden to our economy and legal system. No one reports on it, and no one from the left really talks or responds to it.
They are expensive to the tax payer, very expensive, and the is more than just a few that are very dangerous to the taxpayer. Anyone want to talk about this subject?

 

[SFC Ollie]

It seems that almost all the media, and all the liberals think that the illegals are not a burden to our economy and legal system. No one reports on it, and no one from the left really talks or responds to it.
They are expensive to the tax payer, very expensive, and the is more than just a few that are very dangerous to the taxpayer. Anyone want to talk about this subject?

Too many from all political sides tend to ignore the problem. And chances are they will do another amnesty and call the problem solved. I will not vote for anyone who supports any amnesty.

 

[blah020122]

They are expensive to the tax payer, very expensive, and the is more than just a few that are very dangerous to the taxpayer. Anyone want to talk about this subject?

Not in this thread, no. The question in this thread is not whether illegal immigration is a problem. I think everybody here agrees that it's a real problem and we need more effective ways of dealing with it.

The subject of this thread is whether SB1070 is a good idea. It isn't. Being intended to address a real problem doesn't make it a real solution.

 

[blah020122]

So you think it's a good idea to have no clue who is coming into your country.

No, I don't.

But i do want those who are here illegally to go home.

So do I. This bill is not a good way to go about accomplishing that.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So you think it's a good idea to have no clue who is coming into your country.

No, I don't.

But i do want those who are here illegally to go home.

So do I. This bill is not a good way to go about accomplishing that.

Best thing anyone has come up with since Eisenhower.

 

[blah020122]

You go first, you threw out stats, back them up.

"99.999%" wasn't throwing out stats, it was rhetorical. All I'm saying is that the possibility of the perpetrator being caught, charged, convicted without victim testimony, sentenced to prison, and killed there is far too remote to provide much incentive to the victim to report the crime and face deportation. Are you seriously suggesting I need statistics to back that up?

I'm seriously suggesting that if you're going to toss out numbers you need to cite your source, yes.

Reading comprehension really isn't your strong suit, is it? "99.999%" wasn't tossing out a number to be taken literally. It was rhetorical. I was only making the point that, "the possibility of the perpetrator being caught, charged, convicted without victim testimony, sentenced to prison, and killed there is far too remote to provide much incentive to the victim to report the crime and face deportation." Are you going to concede that point, refute the point, or ignore the point in favor of obsessions about the irrelevant "99.999%" number that was never meant to be taken literally?

I realize you haven't been around here long but if you're not going to back up your words you're just another douche-bag spewing nonsense. So man up or shut up.

Classy as a Hindu cow.

See, now you're getting it. When you can't make a real rebuttal go for the personal insult. You'll fit it just fine around here.

I don't know about that. My insults don't have the same zing as "douche-bag." I'll try to work on improving that.

 

[blah020122]

Are there any statistics that show they, as a group, are anymore likely to be victims of violent crime than any other group? Aren't they, in fact, more likely to be the perpetrators of violent crime?

They're both, actually. (More likely to be victims and more likely to be perpetrators.)

A second possibility is that they'll stay, and when a rape does happen, instead of going to the police, they'll round up a posse and look for their own brand of justice. A disturbing number of them do this already, and after the new law goes into effect, that option becomes the only one available.

you got a link to prove that?

Anecdotal information only. That's enough to make it disturbing to me. Whether the statistics are disturbing in an objective sense I can't say.

I may have been too quick to agree with the stereotype that illegal immigrants are more inclined to criminal behavior.

Seems I was misled by a study that counted inmates in federal prisons — including those who were there for illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants are far more likely to be guilty of crime when you include the crime of illegal immigration, which makes them all criminals.

If we're talking specifically about violent crimes, it seems that illegal immigrants are actually better behaved than legal residents.

I still can't post links, but I can get around that by skipping the http: slash slash. Copy and paste into your address bar, if you're interested:

immigrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/docs/SettingtheRecordStraightonImmigrantsandCrime9-10-08.pdf

immigrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/docs/Crime%20Fact%20Check%2012-12-07.pdf

 

[Againsheila]

It seems that almost all the media, and all the liberals think that the illegals are not a burden to our economy and legal system. No one reports on it, and no one from the left really talks or responds to it.
They are expensive to the tax payer, very expensive, and the is more than just a few that are very dangerous to the taxpayer. Anyone want to talk about this subject?

Too many from all political sides tend to ignore the problem. And chances are they will do another amnesty and call the problem solved. I will not vote for anyone who supports any amnesty.

Every amnesty that has been passed has only increased illegal immigration. There is no excuse to keep doing that. Enough is enough.

 

[SFC Ollie]

It seems that almost all the media, and all the liberals think that the illegals are not a burden to our economy and legal system. No one reports on it, and no one from the left really talks or responds to it.
They are expensive to the tax payer, very expensive, and the is more than just a few that are very dangerous to the taxpayer. Anyone want to talk about this subject?

Too many from all political sides tend to ignore the problem. And chances are they will do another amnesty and call the problem solved. I will not vote for anyone who supports any amnesty.

Every amnesty that has been passed has only increased illegal immigration. There is no excuse to keep doing that. Enough is enough.

Exactly.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Are there any statistics that show they, as a group, are anymore likely to be victims of violent crime than any other group? Aren't they, in fact, more likely to be the perpetrators of violent crime?

They're both, actually. (More likely to be victims and more likely to be perpetrators.)

you got a link to prove that?

Anecdotal information only. That's enough to make it disturbing to me. Whether the statistics are disturbing in an objective sense I can't say.

I may have been too quick to agree with the stereotype that illegal immigrants are more inclined to criminal behavior.

Seems I was misled by a study that counted inmates in federal prisons — including those who were there for illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants are far more likely to be guilty of crime when you include the crime of illegal immigration, which makes them all criminals.

If we're talking specifically about violent crimes, it seems that illegal immigrants are actually better behaved than legal residents.

I still can't post links, but I can get around that by skipping the http: slash slash. Copy and paste into your address bar, if you're interested:

immigrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/docs/SettingtheRecordStraightonImmigrantsandCrime9-10-08.pdf

immigrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/docs/Crime%20Fact%20Check%2012-12-07.pdf

Illegal immigration is a misdemeanor, you don't go to prison for it.

 

[Meister]

They are expensive to the tax payer, very expensive, and the is more than just a few that are very dangerous to the taxpayer. Anyone want to talk about this subject?

Not in this thread, no. The question in this thread is not whether illegal immigration is a problem. I think everybody here agrees that it's a real problem and we need more effective ways of dealing with it.

The subject of this thread is whether SB1070 is a good idea. It isn't. Being intended to address a real problem doesn't make it a real solution.

There are federal laws and guidlines to becoming a citizen, or getting a green card. The problem is for OUR federal government to enforce these laws, and guidelines. THEY aren't doing it, so the states will take up the matter.
I've said it on another thread, feds can lead....follow, or get out of the way.
SB1070 wouldn't have gotten this far if the federal government would do what they are suppose to do, but they wouild rather play politics. So I say, "YES" 1070 is a good idea, at least they are doing something about this MAJOR PROBLEM.

 

[chanel]

You are so right. And the most important part of this "controversy" is that Washington has been forced to stand up and pay attention. They cannot wait until 2011 to start discussing the border situation. And hopefully they are paying attention to the public that are not in favor of amnesty. But then again, they didn't give a rat's ass when it came to the HC bill.

 

[mudwhistle]

They're both, actually. (More likely to be victims and more likely to be perpetrators.)

Anecdotal information only. That's enough to make it disturbing to me. Whether the statistics are disturbing in an objective sense I can't say.

I may have been too quick to agree with the stereotype that illegal immigrants are more inclined to criminal behavior.

Seems I was misled by a study that counted inmates in federal prisons — including those who were there for illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants are far more likely to be guilty of crime when you include the crime of illegal immigration, which makes them all criminals.

If we're talking specifically about violent crimes, it seems that illegal immigrants are actually better behaved than legal residents.

I still can't post links, but I can get around that by skipping the http: slash slash. Copy and paste into your address bar, if you're interested:

immigrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/docs/SettingtheRecordStraightonImmigrantsandCrime9-10-08.pdf

immigrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/docs/Crime%20Fact%20Check%2012-12-07.pdf

Illegal immigration is a misdemeanor, you don't go to prison for it.

Conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor is a felony.

That means that if Obama, Democrats, and even Republicans conspired to let illegal aliens into this country just to get their votes or the votes of their naturalized and or legal citizen friends and relatives...they are guilty of numerous felonies.

 

[Angelhair]

NO amnesty!! Useless to keep on rewarding those who have no respect for our sovereign law. Time to stop the madness.

 

[Angelhair]

Go figure - people have been literally screaming for the control of our borders and the demand to stop illegals from coming in - then a state comes up with a law to try to do that and which might just force the feds to get off their asses and do something to help the states in turmoil and what do they get??? Well, you've read it all.

 

[Terral]

Hi Blah:

Under the new law, police will identify illegal immigrants, beginning a process that will lead to their deportation. This makes any interaction with the police dangerous for them, and effectively eliminates the police as a source of protection for them.

There is no such thing as any "Illegal Immigrant" cuckoo!!!! The "Immigrants" come into the USA 'legally' through the front door. "Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals" are citizens of OTHER COUNTRIES that come into the USA "ILLEGALLY" through the back door. The problem is NOT with the Illegal Aliens that are NOT even supposed to be here. The real problem is with every goddamned American that HIRES THEM!!!! Giving the JOBS of U.S. Citizens to Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals is a CRIME, according to the provisions of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (Wiki). Our Immigration and Employment Laws MUST be 'enforced' at the WORKPLACE and the Illegal Aliens will GO HOME the same way they came here in the middle of the night ...

Suppose a crime, such as robbery, assault, or rape, is committed against an illegal immigrant.

A crime was committed in the moment the Illegal Alien Foreign National entered the USA ILLEGALLY. The second crime was committed when the Illegal Alien secured forged documentation for stealing an American identity. The third crime was committed when the Illegal Alien took a JOB from a U.S. Citizen. The forth crime was committed when the unscrupulous American employer 'hired' him. The fifth crime was committed when the Illegal Alien used the forged documents to cash the check. The sixth crime was committed when stolen money was transferred south of the border through Western Union. The 'displaced U.S. Worker' must then go out and 'displace' another American from his JOB in an endless 'displacement cycle' that NEVER ENDS. Always remember that your Illegal Alien is NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE HERE. Any crime against his person is HIS OWN FAULT for just being here! Try going to Mexico Illegally in the middle of the night to steal a Mexican identity and a Mexican JOB and see what happens ...

If the victim reports the crime to the police, he or she will be deported.

The Illegal Alien takes that chance when engaging in ILLEGAL activity! The simple answer is to GO HOME and come back into the USA through the FRONT DOOR. Your silly example is like saying, "If a guy robs a bank in broad daylight, and somebody shoots him, then he cannot call the cops!" Stop pandering to Illegal Aliens that come here to steal JOBS from real Americans!

By comparison, the perpetrator faces lesser consequences than the victim even if caught and convicted, which is rather unlikely after the victim and potential witnesses are deported, or prevented from coming forward by the threat of deportation.

The real perpetrator is the Illegal Alien Foreign National (like the bank robber) that is NOT even supposed to be here. The guy 'hiring' the Illegal Alien should be held responsible for enabling the situation in the first place! That is called 'harboring' and 'aiding and abetting' an Illegal Alien that carries at mandatory sentence of 2 to 3 years in Mexico 'and' a 5-year sentence here in the USA; IF anybody was enforcing our laws! However, the objective of our Obama Fascist Regime is to create chaos that leads to even more chaos, so that everyone in the country must be chipped using tracking technology.

It seems that when the new law goes into effect, we have free rein to do whatever we want to the wetbacks. Have fun. Just be careful not to target anybody who's here legally.

Stop playing the Open Border Lobby idiot! The old laws make it ILLEGAL to be in the USA ILLEGALLY. The Arizona Immigration Law is based upon the same principles laid out in the Mexican Immigration/Employment Laws 'and' the USA Federal Immigration/Employment Laws that 'are' enforced in Mexico and NOT enforced in the USA!!! The fact is that the 'hiring' of Illegal Aliens in the USA is destroying the Economic Consumer Base and the local Tax Base and fewer real Americans can afford to make offers on your house; which is lowering the value of every house in your neighborhood. Illegal Aliens are lining up in our emergency rooms for free health care and filling our jails where they also receive free health care. Arizona is on the right track to restoring the JOBS to Arizona Workers that will improve the Consumer/Tax Base and help the real 'legal' economy grow ...

Word to the wetbacks: pack your bags, or pack heat. You're on your own now.

The goddamned Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals made the decision to come into the USA ILLEGALLY in the first place. If I were king for one day, then everyone 'hiring' the Illegal Aliens would be shot. However, before that could happen, then the unscrupulous employers would drop their Illegal Aliens like hot potatoes and the Illegals would find their own way BACK HOME to countries where they 'are' citizens.

If an Illegal Alien is victimized by ANYONE, while engaged in this ILLEGAL Activity, then that is what he deserves. Period!

GL,

Terral

 

[Qball]

I think this is largely being overblown. It's already a federal crime to enter into this country illegally; AZ did nothing to alter that. People are worried about an ad hoc legal approach to enforcing these laws, but...there's already a ton of discretion with law enforcement (and the state and federal government, for that matter) in enforcing the law. If there wasn't, this wouldn't be an issue in the first place. But since the federal government mostly refuses to enforce the laws on the books, AZ has taken the law into their own, uh, hands.

I'm just waiting on the grand idea to fix this whole illegal immigration problem from the Left. I'm sure it's coming...some day.

 

[Terral]

Hi Angel:

NO amnesty!! Useless to keep on rewarding those who have no respect for our sovereign law. Time to stop the madness.

Thank you very much for stating this simple truth! We should always remember that handing out "Illegal Amnesty" to Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals is also giving Amnesty to the unscrupulous U.S. Employers 'hiring' them!!! These corrupt employers/contractors are using the 20-million-man Illegal Alien Labor Pool to undercut the competition, which drives prices 'below cost' and sends the legitimate contractors OUT OF BUSINESS! You should also realize that the biggest employer of Illegal Aliens in the USA today is the Federal Government handing out Govt JOBS to Illegal Aliens that are NOT even supposed to be here.

Think about this fact very carefully: Both corrupt Houses of our Congress are NOT seeing our perfectly good Immigration and Employment Laws ENFORCED. The Bush/Obama Fascist Regimes have refused to ENFORCE our Immigration and Employment Laws! This means that the Congress and the Obama Administration CANNOT be trusted to create a new set of Laws that they also will NOT see enforced!

The Open Border Lobby Propaganda says to 'Enforce the border," which is NONSENSE. Nobody can close our borders, when about half of the Illegal Aliens came into the USA legally using Travel/Worker/Student Visas. No sir. The corrupt Federal Govt must be forced into ENFORCING our current Immigration/Employment Laws for a minimum of two years, BEFORE they can even think about changing the rules. Giving Illegal Amnesty to 3 Million Illegal Aliens in 1986 gave us 20 Million Illegal Aliens today. Handing out Illegal Amnesty to this batch will only serve to kick the back door wide open to 40 Million More!!!!

Eventually the Federal Govt MUST 'enforce' our Immigration Laws AT THE WORKPLACE, and the time for enforcement is NOW. That is the only way these corrupt politicians can be trusted to enforce any new laws.

GL,

Terral