Open season on illegals in AZ?

blah020122

Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Under the new law, police will identify illegal immigrants, beginning a process that will lead to their deportation. This makes any interaction with the police dangerous for them, and effectively eliminates the police as a source of protection for them.

Suppose a crime, such as robbery, assault, or rape, is committed against an illegal immigrant. If the victim reports the crime to the police, he or she will be deported. By comparison, the perpetrator faces lesser consequences than the victim even if caught and convicted, which is rather unlikely after the victim and potential witnesses are deported, or prevented from coming forward by the threat of deportation.

It seems that when the new law goes into effect, we have free rein to do whatever we want to the wetbacks. Have fun. Just be careful not to target anybody who's here legally.

Word to the wetbacks: pack your bags, or pack heat. You're on your own now.
 

Angelhair

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
2,597
Reaction score
152
Points
48
Just DON'T come to CA! And if you do, keep going until you reach San Francisco!
 

nraforlife

Active Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
713
Reaction score
53
Points
28
Under the new law, police will identify illegal immigrants, beginning a process that will lead to their deportation. This makes any interaction with the police dangerous for them, and effectively eliminates the police as a source of protection for them.

Suppose a crime, such as robbery, assault, or rape, is committed against an illegal immigrant. If the victim reports the crime to the police, he or she will be deported. By comparison, the perpetrator faces lesser consequences than the victim even if caught and convicted, which is rather unlikely after the victim and potential witnesses are deported, or prevented from coming forward by the threat of deportation.

It seems that when the new law goes into effect, we have free rein to do whatever we want to the wetbacks. Have fun. Just be careful not to target anybody who's here legally.

Word to the wetbacks: pack your bags, or pack heat. You're on your own now.
Hmmmmm, being deported is a worse consequence than being raped or murdered. Pure BS.
 
OP
B

blah020122

Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Under the new law, police will identify illegal immigrants, beginning a process that will lead to their deportation. This makes any interaction with the police dangerous for them, and effectively eliminates the police as a source of protection for them.

Suppose a crime, such as robbery, assault, or rape, is committed against an illegal immigrant. If the victim reports the crime to the police, he or she will be deported. By comparison, the perpetrator faces lesser consequences than the victim even if caught and convicted, which is rather unlikely after the victim and potential witnesses are deported, or prevented from coming forward by the threat of deportation.

It seems that when the new law goes into effect, we have free rein to do whatever we want to the wetbacks. Have fun. Just be careful not to target anybody who's here legally.

Word to the wetbacks: pack your bags, or pack heat. You're on your own now.
Hmmmmm, being deported is a worse consequence than being raped or murdered. Pure BS.
I didn't say being deported is a worse consequence than the crime. I said it's worse than what the perpetrator is likely to face if the victim reports the crime.

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.”....
Albert Einstein
Einstein never actually said that.
 
Last edited:

Amanda

Calm as a Hindu cow
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
4,426
Reaction score
1,011
Points
48
Under the new law, police will identify illegal immigrants, beginning a process that will lead to their deportation. This makes any interaction with the police dangerous for them, and effectively eliminates the police as a source of protection for them.

Suppose a crime, such as robbery, assault, or rape, is committed against an illegal immigrant. If the victim reports the crime to the police, he or she will be deported. By comparison, the perpetrator faces lesser consequences than the victim even if caught and convicted, which is rather unlikely after the victim and potential witnesses are deported, or prevented from coming forward by the threat of deportation.

It seems that when the new law goes into effect, we have free rein to do whatever we want to the wetbacks. Have fun. Just be careful not to target anybody who's here legally.

Word to the wetbacks: pack your bags, or pack heat. You're on your own now.
Hmmmmm, being deported is a worse consequence than being raped or murdered. Pure BS.
I didn't say being deported is a worse consequence than the crime. I said it's worse than what the perpetrator is likely to face if the victim reports the crime.
I think the point was murder or rape is what 1 could face in prison, which sounds a lot worse to me than being put on a bus and driven home. YMMV.
 

Amanda

Calm as a Hindu cow
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
4,426
Reaction score
1,011
Points
48
Suppose a crime, such as robbery, assault, or rape, is committed against an illegal immigrant.
Suppose they just don't come here if they don't like how we deal with them.

Your premise seems to suggest that there's nothing wrong with them breaking our law in the first place to enter illegally. I would have to disagree.
 

SFC Ollie

Still Marching
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
28,893
Reaction score
7,505
Points
255
Location
Extreme East Ohio
Very unfortunate for illegals. I hadn't thought of that. I guess that's just another incentive to make them pack their bags and head south.

Via Con Dios.
 
OP
B

blah020122

Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Points
1
I think the point was murder or rape is what 1 could face in prison, which sounds a lot worse to me than being put on a bus and driven home. YMMV.
I should let nraforlife speak for himself, but if that's what he was saying, it doesn't make sense. Being murdered in prison is not a consequence that the perpetrator is likely to face. Sheriff Joe may be a hard-ass, but even so the prisons here are not Rura Penthe. 99.999% of people who are sent to prison for rape do not get murdered in prison. That's even if they go to prison, which in this case is very unlikely. Rape cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute even in the best of circumstances; when the prosecution has no witness because the victim was deported to Columbia, it's effectively impossible.

If we're talking about something like assault or robbery and the perp doesn't have a lot of strikes against him, he's likely to avoid a prison sentence altogether and be put on probation, which is definitely a lesser consequence than deportation.

Your premise seems to suggest that there's nothing wrong with them breaking our law in the first place to enter illegally.
Where did you get that from?
 
Last edited:

Amanda

Calm as a Hindu cow
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
4,426
Reaction score
1,011
Points
48
I think the point was murder or rape is what 1 could face in prison, which sounds a lot worse to me than being put on a bus and driven home. YMMV.
I should let nraforlife speak for himself, but if that's what he was saying, it doesn't make sense. Being murdered in prison is not a consequence that the perpetrator is likely to face. Sheriff Joe may be a hard-ass, but even so the prisons here are not Rura Penthe. 99.999% of people who are sent to prison for rape do not get murdered in prison. That's even if they go to prison, which in this case is very unlikely. Rape cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute even in the best of circumstances; when the prosecution has no witness because the victim was deported to Columbia, it's effectively impossible.
People are murdered and raped in prison. It happens. It is a potential consequence. I don't think that potential consequence exists on a bus ride while being transported by federal authorities. And, go ahead and cite your source if you're going to toss around statistics.

Your premise seems to suggest that there's nothing wrong with them breaking our law in the first place to enter illegally.
Where did you get that from?[/QUOTE]

Your OP.
 
OP
B

blah020122

Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Very unfortunate for illegals. I hadn't thought of that. I guess that's just another incentive to make them pack their bags and head south.

Via Con Dios.
Ideally, yes, but I don't think that's the most likely result.

One possibility is that they will see this new law, realize they could get raped without having recourse to the police, and go home.

A second possibility is that they'll stay, and when a rape does happen, instead of going to the police, they'll round up a posse and look for their own brand of justice. A disturbing number of them do this already, and after the new law goes into effect, that option becomes the only one available.

I can't see the future, but my gut tells me that far more of them will choose option #2 than option #1, at least until violent crime against them reaches epidemic proportions. Making life bad for them isn't going to send them home unless it becomes so bad that it's worse than the life they left behind to come here.

People are murdered and raped in prison. It happens. It is a potential consequence.
Yes, it happens. It is a possible consequence, just not a very likely one.

If the victim goes to the police, she will almost certainly be deported. The odds that the perpetrator will be caught, convicted, sentenced to prison, and murdered while doing time are remote.

Your premise seems to suggest that there's nothing wrong with them breaking our law in the first place to enter illegally.
Where did you get that from?
Your OP.
How did you infer "There's nothing wrong with them breaking our law in the first place to enter illegally" from the OP?
 

SFC Ollie

Still Marching
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
28,893
Reaction score
7,505
Points
255
Location
Extreme East Ohio
Very unfortunate for illegals. I hadn't thought of that. I guess that's just another incentive to make them pack their bags and head south.

Via Con Dios.
Ideally, yes, but I don't think that's the most likely result.

One possibility is that they will see this new law, realize they could get raped without having recourse to the police, and go home.

A second possibility is that they'll stay, and when a rape does happen, instead of going to the police, they'll round up a posse and look for their own brand of justice. A disturbing number of them do this already, and after the new law goes into effect, that option becomes the only one available.

I can't see the future, but my gut tells me that far more of them will choose option #2 than option #1, at least until violent crime against them reaches epidemic proportions. Making life bad for them isn't going to send them home unless it becomes so bad that it's worse than the life they left behind to come here.

People are murdered and raped in prison. It happens. It is a potential consequence.
Yes, it happens. It is a possible consequence, just not a very likely one.

If the victim goes to the police, she will almost certainly be deported. The odds that the perpetrator will be caught, convicted, sentenced to prison, and murdered while doing time are remote.

Where did you get that from?
Your OP.
How did you infer "There's nothing wrong with them breaking our law in the first place to enter illegally" from the OP?
Citizens Arm yourselves. And be prepared to use it.
 

Big Black Dog

Gold Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
23,366
Reaction score
7,917
Points
340
Well, let me think for a moment... If the illegal aliens were not in this country, there would be no crime committed against them in Arizona (or any other State). Seems like if they pack their shit and go back to Mexico the problem will be solved. Just one more good idea for illegal aliens to leave the US.
 

Amanda

Calm as a Hindu cow
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
4,426
Reaction score
1,011
Points
48
Very unfortunate for illegals. I hadn't thought of that. I guess that's just another incentive to make them pack their bags and head south.

Via Con Dios.
Ideally, yes, but I don't think that's the most likely result.

One possibility is that they will see this new law, realize they could get raped without having recourse to the police, and go home.

A second possibility is that they'll stay, and when a rape does happen, instead of going to the police, they'll round up a posse and look for their own brand of justice. A disturbing number of them do this already, and after the new law goes into effect, that option becomes the only one available.
I have a hard time feeling bad for a rapist that encounters a vigilante mob regardless of whether or not they are here legally. But that's just me.
I can't see the future, but my gut tells me that far more of them will choose option #2 than option #1, at least until violent crime against them reaches epidemic proportions. Making life bad for them isn't going to send them home unless it becomes so bad that it's worse than the life they left behind to come here.
Are there any statistics that show they, as a group, are anymore likely to be victims of violent crime than any other group? Aren't they, in fact, more likely to be the perpetrators of violent crime?

People are murdered and raped in prison. It happens. It is a potential consequence.
Yes, it happens. It is a possible consequence, just not a very likely one.[/quote]

Would still love to have you cite your source on prison violence. But more to the point you said in your OP: By comparison, the perpetrator faces lesser consequences than the victim even if caught and convicted

You have shown this to be a false statement by admitting the possibility of harsh consequences in prison vs a bus ride to the border.
If the victim goes to the police, she will almost certainly be deported. The odds that the perpetrator will be caught, convicted, sentenced to prison, and murdered while doing time are remote.
Are they? Cite your source please.

Where did you get that from?
Your OP.
How did you infer "There's nothing wrong with them breaking our law in the first place to enter illegally" from the OP?[/QUOTE]

Count Dracula's post would be a good place to start. But in my own words: your concern for their well being in spite of their initial illegal act demonstrates where your sympathies lie. The fact remains that they would not be subject to any US law if they didn't enter the country illegally. They have taken the 1st step, and that leads to the potential consequences of being subject to our laws. If they don't like what awaits them here they should simply stay out.

Your position reminds me of how some view burglars. If someone enters a home illegally they deserve pretty much what ever they get, at least in IMO. The same goes for my country. When someone decides to commit an illegal act they open themselves to the possibility that they will be dealt with harshly. You may not like it, but that doesn't change reality.
 

Amanda

Calm as a Hindu cow
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
4,426
Reaction score
1,011
Points
48
Citizens Arm yourselves. And be prepared to use it.
Done and done. :tongue:

I have the cutest little Glock. It's a manifestation of my resolve not to be a victim and an assertion of my rights as an American.
 
OP
B

blah020122

Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Points
1
If the illegal aliens were not in this country, there would be no crime committed against them in Arizona (or any other State). Seems like if they pack their shit and go back to Mexico the problem will be solved.
Our problem might be solved by them packing their shit and going home. Theirs wouldn't, which is why they're here in the first place. They're not likely to pack their shit and go to solve our problems.

Are there any statistics that show they, as a group, are anymore likely to be victims of violent crime than any other group? Aren't they, in fact, more likely to be the perpetrators of violent crime?
They're both, actually. (More likely to be victims and more likely to be perpetrators.)

Yes, it happens. It is a possible consequence, just not a very likely one.
Would still love to have you cite your source on prison violence. But more to the point you said in your OP: By comparison, the perpetrator faces lesser consequences than the victim even if caught and convicted

You have shown this to be a false statement by admitting the possibility of harsh consequences in prison vs a bus ride to the border.
Would still love to have you cite your source for the claim that there is absolutely zero probability of the deportee being killed on the trip home or after arrival.

Contrary to your repeated strawman assertion, I never claimed that there is zero possibility of the perpetrator being caught, charged, prosecuted, convicted without witness testimony, sentenced to prison, and murdered therein, I only claimed that the possibility is very remote, far too small to be at all relevant to the point, which is whether it makes any sense for the victim to go to the police.

Would you tell the victim, "Yes, go to the police. You'll be deported, but maybe the perpetrator will be caught, charged, convicted without your testimony, sentenced to prison, and killed there"? Don't be ridiculous.

your concern for their well being in spite of their initial illegal act demonstrates where your sympathies lie.
First, I haven't expressed concern for their well being so much as I've expressed concern for the situation that we're creating for all of us. This law tells half a million people in Arizona that they cannot go to the police when they need protection or justice for themselves, or even when they have witnessed something and want to report it for the good of others. That creates a dangerous situation for the half a million people who are in Arizona illegally, as well as for the seven million people who are in Arizona legally. A lot of voices among the police are expressing the same concern.

Second, some people think there are two kinds of people in the world: good people who do nothing wrong and bad people who deserve whatever they get. I don't think that way, and neither do most people. (Well, maybe around this forum.) If I do express concern for somebody else's well being, that does not imply a belief that they have done or are doing nothing wrong.
 

Amanda

Calm as a Hindu cow
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
4,426
Reaction score
1,011
Points
48
If the illegal aliens were not in this country, there would be no crime committed against them in Arizona (or any other State). Seems like if they pack their shit and go back to Mexico the problem will be solved.
Our problem might be solved by them packing their shit and going home. Theirs wouldn't, which is why they're here in the first place. They're not likely to pack their shit and go to solve our problems.

Are there any statistics that show they, as a group, are anymore likely to be victims of violent crime than any other group? Aren't they, in fact, more likely to be the perpetrators of violent crime?
They're both, actually. (More likely to be victims and more likely to be perpetrators.)

Would still love to have you cite your source on prison violence. But more to the point you said in your OP: By comparison, the perpetrator faces lesser consequences than the victim even if caught and convicted

You have shown this to be a false statement by admitting the possibility of harsh consequences in prison vs a bus ride to the border.
Would still love to have you cite your source for the claim that there is absolutely zero probability of the deportee being killed on the trip home or after arrival.

Contrary to your repeated strawman assertion, I never claimed that there is zero possibility of the perpetrator being caught, charged, prosecuted, convicted without witness testimony, sentenced to prison, and murdered therein, I only claimed that the possibility is very remote, far too small to be at all relevant to the point, which is whether it makes any sense for the victim to go to the police.

Would you tell the victim, "Yes, go to the police. You'll be deported, but maybe the perpetrator will be caught, charged, convicted without your testimony, sentenced to prison, and killed there"? Don't be ridiculous.

your concern for their well being in spite of their initial illegal act demonstrates where your sympathies lie.
First, I haven't expressed concern for their well being so much as I've expressed concern for the situation that we're creating for all of us. This law tells half a million people in Arizona that they cannot go to the police when they need protection or justice for themselves, or even when they have witnessed something and want to report it for the good of others. That creates a dangerous situation for the half a million people who are in Arizona illegally, as well as for the seven million people who are in Arizona legally. A lot of voices among the police are expressing the same concern.

Second, some people think there are two kinds of people in the world: good people who do nothing wrong and bad people who deserve whatever they get. I don't think that way, and neither do most people. (Well, maybe around this forum.) If I do express concern for somebody else's well being, that does not imply a belief that they have done or are doing nothing wrong.
You go first, you threw out stats, back them up.

I realize you haven't been around here long but if you're not going to back up your words you're just another douche-bag spewing nonsense. So man up or shut up.
 

Luissa

Annoying Customer
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
43,224
Reaction score
6,002
Points
1,785
Location
TARDIS
If the illegal aliens were not in this country, there would be no crime committed against them in Arizona (or any other State). Seems like if they pack their shit and go back to Mexico the problem will be solved.
Our problem might be solved by them packing their shit and going home. Theirs wouldn't, which is why they're here in the first place. They're not likely to pack their shit and go to solve our problems.


They're both, actually. (More likely to be victims and more likely to be perpetrators.)


Would still love to have you cite your source for the claim that there is absolutely zero probability of the deportee being killed on the trip home or after arrival.

Contrary to your repeated strawman assertion, I never claimed that there is zero possibility of the perpetrator being caught, charged, prosecuted, convicted without witness testimony, sentenced to prison, and murdered therein, I only claimed that the possibility is very remote, far too small to be at all relevant to the point, which is whether it makes any sense for the victim to go to the police.

Would you tell the victim, "Yes, go to the police. You'll be deported, but maybe the perpetrator will be caught, charged, convicted without your testimony, sentenced to prison, and killed there"? Don't be ridiculous.

your concern for their well being in spite of their initial illegal act demonstrates where your sympathies lie.
First, I haven't expressed concern for their well being so much as I've expressed concern for the situation that we're creating for all of us. This law tells half a million people in Arizona that they cannot go to the police when they need protection or justice for themselves, or even when they have witnessed something and want to report it for the good of others. That creates a dangerous situation for the half a million people who are in Arizona illegally, as well as for the seven million people who are in Arizona legally. A lot of voices among the police are expressing the same concern.

Second, some people think there are two kinds of people in the world: good people who do nothing wrong and bad people who deserve whatever they get. I don't think that way, and neither do most people. (Well, maybe around this forum.) If I do express concern for somebody else's well being, that does not imply a belief that they have done or are doing nothing wrong.
You go first, you threw out stats, back them up.

I realize you haven't been around here long but if you're not going to back up your words you're just another douche-bag spewing nonsense. So man up or shut up.
He is using common sense, what is the problem with that?

Of course he could live in fantasy land, like the rest of you.
 
OP
B

blah020122

Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Points
1
You go first, you threw out stats, back them up.
"99.999%" wasn't throwing out stats, it was rhetorical. All I'm saying is that the possibility of the perpetrator being caught, charged, convicted without victim testimony, sentenced to prison, and killed there is far too remote to provide much incentive to the victim to report the crime and face deportation. Are you seriously suggesting I need statistics to back that up?

I realize you haven't been around here long but if you're not going to back up your words you're just another douche-bag spewing nonsense. So man up or shut up.
Classy as a Hindu cow.
 
Last edited:

007

Charter Member
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
46,317
Reaction score
16,100
Points
2,250
Location
Podunk, WI
He is using common sense, what is the problem with that?

Of course he could live in fantasy land, like the rest of you.
Oh... Gee... what's your problem... YOU LITTLE ****?

Pull your fucking piss blond hair do out of obama's ass and wake the fuck up you pimple faced little liberal skank. Nobody wants to hear your shit. You should really just shut the fuck up. Or maybe you'd like to neg me again. Well, you'll have pass another shit load of rep out again so you can get back to me huh? Yeah. You will. Kinda like rep abuse? Yeah. Well I have a shit load of rep built up, so you're going to have to commit your bad little slut ass to negging me 24/7 from now on to get me down to zero in the next six months. But ya know what really sucks about that? I really don't care. You fucked with me, and now I'm going to follow your shitty little piss fake, secretary spread, flat ass, shit blond self around the board and fuck with you non stop. How do you like that? That IS what you WANTED isn't IT? Why else would you follow me around the board and NEG me every chance you get even though you were told NOT to?

Games on now bitch. I could care less about the rep. Now you've just got me UP YOUR ASS. Hope you like it.
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top