One Third of ObamaCare Co-Ops Have Failed

[TeaBagger]

Trump and Sanders have the healthcare solution. It's called SINGLE PAYER. It will end the criminal behavior of the insurance companies and their collusion with the criminal medical industry.

Trump Pushes Single Payer Healthcare, Tax Increase on ...

In July 2015, conservative columnist Erick Erickson wrote that Trump "has supported a Canadian-style universal health care system."

Our partners at PunditFact.com issued a rating of True.

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind - Bernie Sanders

Obamacare is better than what we had but it did not go far enough. We need to catch more medical fraudsters and prosecute them.

You clearly need it. Whatever treatment they are giving you for brain damage isn't working.

And your fantasy of single payer....is just that....a fantasy.

You vote Republican and you accuse me of brain damage? LOL!

Nearly every other advanced country has single payer and universal health care you fucking moron and all those countries are ranked higher for quality and have far lower costs.

These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare ...

 

[Greenbeard]

First....what "most plans". Certainly not employer supplied plans.

Is there a terminology barrier here? Individual market means not employer-based plans (that's group). The individual market is where the cost of coverage has gone up, it's where the minimum standards in the ACA have had their impact.

Second....what are "most plans" as a percentage of plans overall.

If your point is that the individual market is and always has been small, no kidding. That's why all this handwringing about how disruptive the ACA has been is absurd, it's impact has been largely limited to the individual market.

Outside the individual market (where, as you point out, the vast majority of Americans get their coverage), premium increases over the past 5 years have been ~4%, which is historically low.

Next......how do you reconcile the massive deductibles as a function of cost ? Bronze plans are little more than catastraophic plans with a lot of high priced bells that you'll never use. I can't get what I used to get for the same price. If you really want to believe the bronze plans are more generous in that regard, then I guess we really do live in different universes.

This literally couldn't be clearer. Actuarial value is a real thing with a very specific meaning. If a plan has a 60% actuarial value, that means it covers 60% of the costs incurred on covered benefits. The other 40% are paid out of pocket--through deductibles, coinsurance, copays--by the members.

You're harkening back to 50% (and sub-50%) actuarial values. Which means enrolled members pay 50% of the costs of covered benefits out of pocket. Or more.

By definition a 60% actuarial value plan is more generous than a 50% actuarial value plan. People have fewer out-of-pocket costs with the former plan. This is the definition of plan generosity. And you're the one that brought it up.

There is plenty of stuff about how people can't use their high priced bronze plans because the cost sharing is to high.

To reiterate: by definition a plan with lower actuarial value has higher cost sharing for the members. The ACA set a floor on actuarial values and cost sharing. Most plans in the old individual market were below that floor and had to lower their cost sharing to meet it. That's why premiums went up.

You brought up the quote pointing out exactly that fact. I just highlighted because the meaning still doesn't seem to have sunken in for you.

 

[TeaBagger]

Wake up moron, because it's the corporations who own the government. Businesses in an unregulated capitalist corpocracy will get huge and that is what happened. But you righties hate regulation and that is why the banks became to big to fail and the CEOs today are too rich to jail.

Wait minute. If the corporations own government, what exactly would regulating business with government accomplish???

Would it create laws that bailed out businesses when they failed? I bet it would.

And they would make sure government hides behind the laws when it creates barriers to entry for competition.

It's that simple.

Hey simpleton dumb fuck. Industry tells government what to do. In case you haven't noticed the US is no longer a democracy. The US is a kleptocratic plutocracy you fucking moron.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Trump and Sanders have the healthcare solution. It's called SINGLE PAYER. It will end the criminal behavior of the insurance companies and their collusion with the criminal medical industry.

Trump Pushes Single Payer Healthcare, Tax Increase on ...

In July 2015, conservative columnist Erick Erickson wrote that Trump "has supported a Canadian-style universal health care system."

Our partners at PunditFact.com issued a rating of True.

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind - Bernie Sanders

Obamacare is better than what we had but it did not go far enough. We need to catch more medical fraudsters and prosecute them.

You clearly need it. Whatever treatment they are giving you for brain damage isn't working.

And your fantasy of single payer....is just that....a fantasy.

You vote Republican and you accuse me of brain damage? LOL!

Nearly every other advanced country has single payer and universal health care you fucking moron and all those countries are ranked higher for quality and have far lower costs.

These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare ...

As has already been pointed out, those ranking are good for toilet paper.

They are largely weighted by access.

While you are a moron (a really big partisan moron), the 17% of GDP is disturbing. I've been asking if those numbers are on apples to apples basis. Nobody can tell me.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Wake up moron, because it's the corporations who own the government. Businesses in an unregulated capitalist corpocracy will get huge and that is what happened. But you righties hate regulation and that is why the banks became to big to fail and the CEOs today are too rich to jail.

Wait minute. If the corporations own government, what exactly would regulating business with government accomplish???

Would it create laws that bailed out businesses when they failed? I bet it would.

And they would make sure government hides behind the laws when it creates barriers to entry for competition.

It's that simple.

Hey simpleton dumb fuck. Industry tells government what to do. In case you haven't noticed the US is no longer a democracy. The US is a kleptocratic plutocracy you fucking moron.

Please show me where I said I vote Republican.....dick.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You're harkening back to 50% (and sub-50%) actuarial values. Which means enrolled members pay 50% of the costs of covered benefits out of pocket. Or more.

Potentially or actually ?

You can have a lot of covered benefits you'll never use (that you are being forced to pay for) that can potentially skew this to make people think you are somehow getting a better deal.

If you are saying that people are actually paying less out of pocket, I find that truly hard to believe.

 

[Greenbeard]

Potentially or actually ?

You can have a lot of covered benefits you'll never use (that you are being forced to pay for) that can potentially skew this to make people think you are somehow getting a better deal.

If you are saying that people are actually paying less out of pocket, I find that truly hard to believe.

This is bizarre. You made this point. Now you find it truly hard to believe.

Actuarial values in the nongroup market have gone up. Insurers are paying for more of their enrollees' expenses than before. (Note: these first two sentences mean exactly the same thing.) That's why individual market premiums are higher now--surely you at least believe that, right? As you put it, "In essence, Obamacare has made cheap health insurance illegal." Cheap = lower actuarial value = more out-of-pocket costs for the enrollee.

It's true, unless you're a 20-something, you can't buy a plan with an actuarial value below 60% (bronze-level) anymore. Previously most plans in the individual market didn't meet this generosity level.

This reminds me of back in 2013 when horror stories about soaring premiums in the individual market were all the rage as the new rules kicked in. Ohio's lieutenant governor was pulling our her favorite examples, and when the Plain Dealer looked at one of them they found the plan that was being used as the reference point had a $25,000 deductible for one person:

In making her comparisons, Taylor included two examples, both for health-care policies sold in 2013, both with substantial hikes likely in 2014. The cost of a policy with a $25,000 deductible (a deductible that was not listed in Taylor's release but which her department disclosed to The Plain Dealer when asked) was $131 a month this year for a 64-year-old woman in Franklin County (if she didn't smoke). Next year, the cost will jump to $593.53, an increase of 353 percent, according to Taylor's department.

Yeah, insurers can't sell plans with deductibles that high anymore. In fact, all cost-sharing put together (deductibles + coinsurance + copays) for a single person can never be higher than ~$6,800 total under current law. But as the cost-sharing goes down and the plan generosity goes up, the premium rises too.

If premiums are higher in the individual market today than pre-2014, it's because the coverage is more generous (the out-of-pocket spending is lower).

I know you desperately want to make some argument that plan generosity has been dropping (which would mean declining actuarial values--the opposite of what you've put forth so far) as premiums go up, but that doesn't actually make sense.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Potentially or actually ?

You can have a lot of covered benefits you'll never use (that you are being forced to pay for) that can potentially skew this to make people think you are somehow getting a better deal.

If you are saying that people are actually paying less out of pocket, I find that truly hard to believe.

This is bizarre. You made this point. Now you find it truly hard to believe.

Actuarial values in the nongroup market have gone up. Insurers are paying for more of their enrollees' expenses than before. (Note: these first two sentences mean exactly the same thing.) That's why individual market premiums are higher now--surely you at least believe that, right? As you put it, "In essence, Obamacare has made cheap health insurance illegal." Cheap = lower actuarial value = more out-of-pocket costs for the enrollee.

It's true, unless you're a 20-something, you can't buy a plan with an actuarial value below 60% (bronze-level) anymore. Previously most plans in the individual market didn't meet this generosity level.

This reminds me of back in 2013 when horror stories about soaring premiums in the individual market were all the rage as the new rules kicked in. Ohio's lieutenant governor was pulling our her favorite examples, and when the Plain Dealer looked at one of them they found the plan that was being used as the reference point had a $25,000 deductible for one person:

In making her comparisons, Taylor included two examples, both for health-care policies sold in 2013, both with substantial hikes likely in 2014. The cost of a policy with a $25,000 deductible (a deductible that was not listed in Taylor's release but which her department disclosed to The Plain Dealer when asked) was $131 a month this year for a 64-year-old woman in Franklin County (if she didn't smoke). Next year, the cost will jump to $593.53, an increase of 353 percent, according to Taylor's department.

Yeah, insurers can't sell plans with deductibles that high anymore. In fact, all cost-sharing put together (deductibles + coinsurance + copays) for a single person can never be higher than ~$6,800 total under current law. But as the cost-sharing goes down and the plan generosity goes up, the premium rises too.

If premiums are higher in the individual market today than pre-2014, it's because the coverage is more generous (the out-of-pocket spending is lower).

I know you desperately want to make some argument that plan generosity has been dropping (which would mean declining actuarial values--the opposite of what you've put forth so far) as premiums go up, but that doesn't actually make sense.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Wake up moron, because it's the corporations who own the government. Businesses in an unregulated capitalist corpocracy will get huge and that is what happened. But you righties hate regulation and that is why the banks became to big to fail and the CEOs today are too rich to jail.

Wait minute. If the corporations own government, what exactly would regulating business with government accomplish???

Would it create laws that bailed out businesses when they failed? I bet it would.

And they would make sure government hides behind the laws when it creates barriers to entry for competition.

It's that simple.

Hey simpleton dumb fuck. Industry tells government what to do. In case you haven't noticed the US is no longer a democracy. The US is a kleptocratic plutocracy you fucking moron.

I have not seen much from Teabagger....wonder if he's to busy with a mouthful.