one more knife in putler back : Turkey agrees to back NATO anti-maskal plans for Baltic: Lithuania

[Litwin]

one more knife in putler back : Turkey agrees to back NATO anti-maskal plans for Baltic: Lithuania.


as i said before, Muscovy and Turkey will never be allies ...

Image removed

"Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan has agreed to back NATO’s defense plans for Poland and the Baltic states, Lithuania’s president said on Wednesday.

“This is a huge achievement not only for our country, but for the whole region, because it ensures security of our citizens,” Lithuanian President Gitanas Nauseda said in a statement. "
Turkey agrees to back NATO plans for Baltic: Lithuania - Reuters

 

[Bleipriester]

We shouldn´t allow Washington to install a new iron curtain on our continent. All their slaves should be redeployed to gulags, what difference does it make?

 

[Correll]

It is insane the NATO is committed to defending the Baltic States.


1. The situation is such that it is impossible for effective defense.

2. They are not worth a World War.

3. Our leadership is completely idiotic, to commit us to this.

 

[Bleipriester]

It is insane the NATO is committed to defending the Baltic States.


1. The situation is such that it is impossible for effective defense.

2. They are not worth a World War.

3. Our leadership is completely idiotic, to commit us to this.

They are resisting the multipolar world. Any country that dares to be sovereign will be treated like Russia.

 

[Correll]

It is insane the NATO is committed to defending the Baltic States.


1. The situation is such that it is impossible for effective defense.

2. They are not worth a World War.

3. Our leadership is completely idiotic, to commit us to this.

They are resisting the multipolar world. Any country that dares to be sovereign will be treated like Russia.

I can see that being part of it. But the level of stupid, is such that I suspect multiple vectors.

 

[Bleipriester]

It is insane the NATO is committed to defending the Baltic States.


1. The situation is such that it is impossible for effective defense.

2. They are not worth a World War.

3. Our leadership is completely idiotic, to commit us to this.

They are resisting the multipolar world. Any country that dares to be sovereign will be treated like Russia.

I can see that being part of it. But the level of stupid, is such that I suspect multiple vectors.

There are a few companies that benefit from a big bad threat.

 

[Correll]

It is insane the NATO is committed to defending the Baltic States.


1. The situation is such that it is impossible for effective defense.

2. They are not worth a World War.

3. Our leadership is completely idiotic, to commit us to this.

They are resisting the multipolar world. Any country that dares to be sovereign will be treated like Russia.

I can see that being part of it. But the level of stupid, is such that I suspect multiple vectors.

There are a few companies that benefit from a big bad threat.

Yeah, but we don't want to overestimate their impact. The free standing stupidity of just being stuck in a rut, or/and being unable to tell the difference between defeated and harmless...


There was NO debate on post cold war strategy or anything, after the Cold War. Do we even have a strategic concept of what to do with the world and/or involvement and alliances?


Seriously, even if you want to assume an evil MIC that is driving this, pledging to defense the BALTICS is still insane and stupid and not needed.


You can have a new cold war, or even a hot one, is you are insane to want that, with a more achievable set up than THAT!

 

[Bleipriester]

It is insane the NATO is committed to defending the Baltic States.


1. The situation is such that it is impossible for effective defense.

2. They are not worth a World War.

3. Our leadership is completely idiotic, to commit us to this.

They are resisting the multipolar world. Any country that dares to be sovereign will be treated like Russia.

I can see that being part of it. But the level of stupid, is such that I suspect multiple vectors.

There are a few companies that benefit from a big bad threat.

Yeah, but we don't want to overestimate their impact. The free standing stupidity of just being stuck in a rut, or/and being unable to tell the difference between defeated and harmless...


There was NO debate on post cold war strategy or anything, after the Cold War. Do we even have a strategic concept of what to do with the world and/or involvement and alliances?


Seriously, even if you want to assume an evil MIC that is driving this, pledging to defense the BALTICS is still insane and stupid and not needed.


You can have a new cold war, or even a hot one, is you are insane to want that, with a more achievable set up than THAT!

The Baltics are just small and weak compared to Russia. But the threat is made up.

 

[ESay]

It is insane the NATO is committed to defending the Baltic States.


1. The situation is such that it is impossible for effective defense.

2. They are not worth a World War.

3. Our leadership is completely idiotic, to commit us to this.

There are little doubts that in the case of a possible war with Russia the Baltic states will be the first target. And there are little doubts that the Nato forces stationed there will be evacuated and the states will be abandoned.

What should be eventually determined is the stance of Nato as a whole toward Russia and its perception. If it should be recognized as a threat and possible enemy, then defending strategy won't be any effective without including such countries as Belarus and Ukraine into the alliance (whether it is possible is another topic of discussion).

If Russia should be recognized as a country that isnt a threat for Europe, then existence of Nato has little meaning.

Mainstream politics are afraid to accept either of these obvious variants and now we see what results from that - disorientation and quarrels inside the bloc.

 

[Correll]

It is insane the NATO is committed to defending the Baltic States.


1. The situation is such that it is impossible for effective defense.

2. They are not worth a World War.

3. Our leadership is completely idiotic, to commit us to this.

They are resisting the multipolar world. Any country that dares to be sovereign will be treated like Russia.

I can see that being part of it. But the level of stupid, is such that I suspect multiple vectors.

There are a few companies that benefit from a big bad threat.

Yeah, but we don't want to overestimate their impact. The free standing stupidity of just being stuck in a rut, or/and being unable to tell the difference between defeated and harmless...


There was NO debate on post cold war strategy or anything, after the Cold War. Do we even have a strategic concept of what to do with the world and/or involvement and alliances?


Seriously, even if you want to assume an evil MIC that is driving this, pledging to defense the BALTICS is still insane and stupid and not needed.


You can have a new cold war, or even a hot one, is you are insane to want that, with a more achievable set up than THAT!

The Baltics are just small and weak compared to Russia. But the threat is made up.

Well the threat to US, is made up. The threat to Western Europe is made up. Hell the threat to CENTRAL EUROPE is made up.


But the threat to the Baltics is real.



If you made a list of bad places to try to project American power, the fucking Baltics would likely be in the top 5.

 

[Correll]

It is insane the NATO is committed to defending the Baltic States.


1. The situation is such that it is impossible for effective defense.

2. They are not worth a World War.

3. Our leadership is completely idiotic, to commit us to this.

There are little doubts that in the case of a possible war with Russia the Baltic states will be the first target. And there are little doubts that the Nato forces stationed there will be evacuated and the states will be abandoned.

What should be eventually determined is the stance of Nato as a whole toward Russia and its perception. If it should be recognized as a threat and possible enemy, then defending strategy won't be any effective without including such countries as Belarus and Ukraine into the alliance (whether it is possible is another topic of discussion).

If Russia should be recognized as a country that isnt a threat for Europe, then existence of Nato has little meaning.

Mainstream politics are afraid to accept either of these obvious variants and now we see what results from that - disorientation and quarrels inside the bloc.

Agreed. And if the "plan" for the Baltics, is to evacuate and let them be occupied for years, while we fight WWIII, to maybe liberate them someday,


that is a shitty plan.

 

[Bleipriester]

They are resisting the multipolar world. Any country that dares to be sovereign will be treated like Russia.

I can see that being part of it. But the level of stupid, is such that I suspect multiple vectors.

There are a few companies that benefit from a big bad threat.

Yeah, but we don't want to overestimate their impact. The free standing stupidity of just being stuck in a rut, or/and being unable to tell the difference between defeated and harmless...


There was NO debate on post cold war strategy or anything, after the Cold War. Do we even have a strategic concept of what to do with the world and/or involvement and alliances?


Seriously, even if you want to assume an evil MIC that is driving this, pledging to defense the BALTICS is still insane and stupid and not needed.


You can have a new cold war, or even a hot one, is you are insane to want that, with a more achievable set up than THAT!

The Baltics are just small and weak compared to Russia. But the threat is made up.

Well the threat to US, is made up. The threat to Western Europe is made up. Hell the threat to CENTRAL EUROPE is made up.


But the threat to the Baltics is real.



If you made a list of bad places to try to project American power, the fucking Baltics would likely be in the top 5.

This means without that power projection, there would be no threat.

 

[Correll]

I can see that being part of it. But the level of stupid, is such that I suspect multiple vectors.

There are a few companies that benefit from a big bad threat.

Yeah, but we don't want to overestimate their impact. The free standing stupidity of just being stuck in a rut, or/and being unable to tell the difference between defeated and harmless...


There was NO debate on post cold war strategy or anything, after the Cold War. Do we even have a strategic concept of what to do with the world and/or involvement and alliances?


Seriously, even if you want to assume an evil MIC that is driving this, pledging to defense the BALTICS is still insane and stupid and not needed.


You can have a new cold war, or even a hot one, is you are insane to want that, with a more achievable set up than THAT!

The Baltics are just small and weak compared to Russia. But the threat is made up.

Well the threat to US, is made up. The threat to Western Europe is made up. Hell the threat to CENTRAL EUROPE is made up.


But the threat to the Baltics is real.



If you made a list of bad places to try to project American power, the fucking Baltics would likely be in the top 5.

This means without that power projection, there would be no threat.

Mmmm, no. There are quite a number of ethnic Russian in those countries, that Putin would care about, regardless of whether there was an America in the world, or not.

 

[Bleipriester]

There are a few companies that benefit from a big bad threat.

Yeah, but we don't want to overestimate their impact. The free standing stupidity of just being stuck in a rut, or/and being unable to tell the difference between defeated and harmless...


There was NO debate on post cold war strategy or anything, after the Cold War. Do we even have a strategic concept of what to do with the world and/or involvement and alliances?


Seriously, even if you want to assume an evil MIC that is driving this, pledging to defense the BALTICS is still insane and stupid and not needed.


You can have a new cold war, or even a hot one, is you are insane to want that, with a more achievable set up than THAT!

The Baltics are just small and weak compared to Russia. But the threat is made up.

Well the threat to US, is made up. The threat to Western Europe is made up. Hell the threat to CENTRAL EUROPE is made up.


But the threat to the Baltics is real.



If you made a list of bad places to try to project American power, the fucking Baltics would likely be in the top 5.

This means without that power projection, there would be no threat.

Mmmm, no. There are quite a number of ethnic Russian in those countries, that Putin would care about, regardless of whether there was an America in the world, or not.

There is no sign that Russia would invade these countries if the Nato wasn´t present.

 

[Correll]

Yeah, but we don't want to overestimate their impact. The free standing stupidity of just being stuck in a rut, or/and being unable to tell the difference between defeated and harmless...


There was NO debate on post cold war strategy or anything, after the Cold War. Do we even have a strategic concept of what to do with the world and/or involvement and alliances?


Seriously, even if you want to assume an evil MIC that is driving this, pledging to defense the BALTICS is still insane and stupid and not needed.


You can have a new cold war, or even a hot one, is you are insane to want that, with a more achievable set up than THAT!

The Baltics are just small and weak compared to Russia. But the threat is made up.

Well the threat to US, is made up. The threat to Western Europe is made up. Hell the threat to CENTRAL EUROPE is made up.


But the threat to the Baltics is real.



If you made a list of bad places to try to project American power, the fucking Baltics would likely be in the top 5.

This means without that power projection, there would be no threat.

Mmmm, no. There are quite a number of ethnic Russian in those countries, that Putin would care about, regardless of whether there was an America in the world, or not.

There is no sign that Russia would invade these countries if the Nato wasn´t present.

I haven't really looked into it. My perspective is that the Baltic States are not worth fighting a global war over, so we should not be committed to doing so.

 

[Bleipriester]

The Baltics are just small and weak compared to Russia. But the threat is made up.

Well the threat to US, is made up. The threat to Western Europe is made up. Hell the threat to CENTRAL EUROPE is made up.


But the threat to the Baltics is real.



If you made a list of bad places to try to project American power, the fucking Baltics would likely be in the top 5.

This means without that power projection, there would be no threat.

Mmmm, no. There are quite a number of ethnic Russian in those countries, that Putin would care about, regardless of whether there was an America in the world, or not.

There is no sign that Russia would invade these countries if the Nato wasn´t present.

I haven't really looked into it. My perspective is that the Baltic States are not worth fighting a global war over, so we should not be committed to doing so.

Nothing but the pure existence is worth fighting a global war.
Just imagine Russia would deploy troops at the US borders. That would be seen as an aggression and could trigger US invasions.

 

[Correll]

Well the threat to US, is made up. The threat to Western Europe is made up. Hell the threat to CENTRAL EUROPE is made up.


But the threat to the Baltics is real.



If you made a list of bad places to try to project American power, the fucking Baltics would likely be in the top 5.

This means without that power projection, there would be no threat.

Mmmm, no. There are quite a number of ethnic Russian in those countries, that Putin would care about, regardless of whether there was an America in the world, or not.

There is no sign that Russia would invade these countries if the Nato wasn´t present.

I haven't really looked into it. My perspective is that the Baltic States are not worth fighting a global war over, so we should not be committed to doing so.

Nothing but the pure existence is worth fighting a global war.
Just imagine Russia would deploy troops at the US borders. That would be seen as an aggression and could trigger US invasions.

During the Cold War, we were committed to fighting to prevent a communist invasion of Western Europe.


That made sense, because flipping Western Europe would have upset the Balance of Power, and would have had serious negative effects on US.


Thus, it made sense for US to threaten to fight over Germany.


ANd thus our threat was completely credible. And never was tested.



BUT, it does not make sense for us to fight over the Baltics.


Thus, our threat is not credible. And thus, it could very well be tested someday.



Thus, this commitment to fight, is ironically, MORE dangerous than our commitment to fight over West Germany.

 

[Bleipriester]

This means without that power projection, there would be no threat.

Mmmm, no. There are quite a number of ethnic Russian in those countries, that Putin would care about, regardless of whether there was an America in the world, or not.

There is no sign that Russia would invade these countries if the Nato wasn´t present.

I haven't really looked into it. My perspective is that the Baltic States are not worth fighting a global war over, so we should not be committed to doing so.

Nothing but the pure existence is worth fighting a global war.
Just imagine Russia would deploy troops at the US borders. That would be seen as an aggression and could trigger US invasions.

During the Cold War, we were committed to fighting to prevent a communist invasion of Western Europe.


That made sense, because flipping Western Europe would have upset the Balance of Power, and would have had serious negative effects on US.


Thus, it made sense for US to threaten to fight over Germany.


ANd thus our threat was completely credible. And never was tested.



BUT, it does not make sense for us to fight over the Baltics.


Thus, our threat is not credible. And thus, it could very well be tested someday.



Thus, this commitment to fight, is ironically, MORE dangerous than our commitment to fight over West Germany.

The Baltics don´t matter. It is just about containing Russia militarily. And yes, it is not credible. The Nato presence is not strong enough and the Baltics would fall within 60 hours according to the US.

 

[Correll]

Mmmm, no. There are quite a number of ethnic Russian in those countries, that Putin would care about, regardless of whether there was an America in the world, or not.

There is no sign that Russia would invade these countries if the Nato wasn´t present.

I haven't really looked into it. My perspective is that the Baltic States are not worth fighting a global war over, so we should not be committed to doing so.

Nothing but the pure existence is worth fighting a global war.
Just imagine Russia would deploy troops at the US borders. That would be seen as an aggression and could trigger US invasions.

During the Cold War, we were committed to fighting to prevent a communist invasion of Western Europe.


That made sense, because flipping Western Europe would have upset the Balance of Power, and would have had serious negative effects on US.


Thus, it made sense for US to threaten to fight over Germany.


ANd thus our threat was completely credible. And never was tested.



BUT, it does not make sense for us to fight over the Baltics.


Thus, our threat is not credible. And thus, it could very well be tested someday.



Thus, this commitment to fight, is ironically, MORE dangerous than our commitment to fight over West Germany.

The Baltics don´t matter. It is just about containing Russia militarily. And yes, it is not credible. The Nato presence is not strong enough and the Baltics would fall within 60 hours according to the US.

Containing Russia militarily? From what? The Baltic? They already have access to the Baltic.


We could kill millions and lose millions, "protecting" the Baltics, and for what?


We are still operating under the same basic strategy that we adopted in the late fucking FORTIES!

 

[Bleipriester]

There is no sign that Russia would invade these countries if the Nato wasn´t present.

I haven't really looked into it. My perspective is that the Baltic States are not worth fighting a global war over, so we should not be committed to doing so.

Nothing but the pure existence is worth fighting a global war.
Just imagine Russia would deploy troops at the US borders. That would be seen as an aggression and could trigger US invasions.

During the Cold War, we were committed to fighting to prevent a communist invasion of Western Europe.


That made sense, because flipping Western Europe would have upset the Balance of Power, and would have had serious negative effects on US.


Thus, it made sense for US to threaten to fight over Germany.


ANd thus our threat was completely credible. And never was tested.



BUT, it does not make sense for us to fight over the Baltics.


Thus, our threat is not credible. And thus, it could very well be tested someday.



Thus, this commitment to fight, is ironically, MORE dangerous than our commitment to fight over West Germany.

The Baltics don´t matter. It is just about containing Russia militarily. And yes, it is not credible. The Nato presence is not strong enough and the Baltics would fall within 60 hours according to the US.

Containing Russia militarily? From what? The Baltic? They already have access to the Baltic.


We could kill millions and lose millions, "protecting" the Baltics, and for what?


We are still operating under the same basic strategy that we adopted in the late fucking FORTIES!

From where ever possible. Because of the new order that is on your Dollar bill. You think it is there for fun?