Oil Companies Defend Profits To Congress

[BrianH]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,344193,00.html

In other words, "We know that rising fuels costs are hurting consumers, especially the poor and those on fixed incomes, but tough shit; deal with it."

Our mighty American energy companies doing what they do best.

 

[dread]

You know...I have no problem with companies making a profit. It is good for the economy. That being said...When one is making money hand over fist to the extent that it is breaking down the economic system around the infastructure THAT is when I get a little mad. When truckers cant afford fuel because they have to put food on the table that sends the rest of America in a tailspin. Or rather like a domino effect it affects everything around us.

 

[manifold]

It's almost enough to warm me to the idea of socializing the oil/fuel industry.

 

[jillian]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,344193,00.html

In other words, "We know that rising fuels costs are hurting consumers, especially the poor and those on fixed incomes, but tough shit; deal with it."

Our mighty American energy companies doing what they do best.

And still we give them tax breaks....

but is anything else to be expected when your VP devises energy policy behind closed doors with oil company lobbyists?

 

[AllieBaba]

Once again.

The reason oil is high is not because of capitalism. It's because the libs refuse to allow us to access our own oil. It's because the libs refuse to allow us to build refineries. It's because the libs think it's a good idea to take food from our own mouths to put into our gas tanks INSTEAD of accessing what is readily available. You don't have to be a genius to understand this: capitalism leads to lower prices, not higher. But when you start messing with people's ability to access/develop their own land, when you tax exhorbitantly those who provide jobs and commodities, THEN you get an out-of-whack economy, and the little guy feels the crunch.

But you guys don't care about the little guys, or you'd realize it's a GOOD thing to harvest our own resources, and be self-sufficient.

 

[BrianH]

If only the public arena could boycott gasoline like the truckers are doing. Those poor guys. What I don't understand, is how you take a by-product of gasoline and charge more for it than the gasoline itself. This is proof that fuel is high because we'll pay for it, and that the oil industry is swimming in pools of money. They're holding the country hostage.

 

[AllieBaba]

Where do you get that gasoline by-product?

Not from US refineries.

Sorry, I'm not a genius in the area of economics, but I recognize you probably need to do a little research.

 

[jillian]

If only the public arena could boycott gasoline like the truckers are doing. Those poor guys. What I don't understand, is how you take a by-product of gasoline and charge more for it than the gasoline itself. This is proof that fuel is high because we'll pay for it, and that the oil industry is swimming in pools of money. They're holding the country hostage.

Yep...

 

[Paulie]

Once again.

The reason oil is high is not because of capitalism. It's because the libs refuse to allow us to access our own oil. It's because the libs refuse to allow us to build refineries. It's because the libs think it's a good idea to take food from our own mouths to put into our gas tanks INSTEAD of accessing what is readily available. You don't have to be a genius to understand this: capitalism leads to lower prices, not higher. But when you start messing with people's ability to access/develop their own land, when you tax exhorbitantly those who provide jobs and commodities, THEN you get an out-of-whack economy, and the little guy feels the crunch.

But you guys don't care about the little guys, or you'd realize it's a GOOD thing to harvest our own resources, and be self-sufficient.

I know you're not talking about ANWR.

It's not like ANWR would make us oil-independent. What's estimated to be there would supply 5% of our consumption for 12 years on the low end of the estimates, and 32 on the absolute highest estimate. Take the mean, and you got about 22 years. But that's only 5%. I'd like to drill ANWR, but it's certainly not going to change THAT much, and then what do we do when it's used up? It's not like we're actively seeking alternatives.

 

[jillian]

I know you're not talking about ANWR.

It's not like ANWR would make us oil-independent. What's estimated to be there would supply 5% of our consumption for 12 years on the low end of the estimates, and 32 on the absolute highest estimate. Take the mean, and you got about 22 years. But that's only 5%. I'd like to drill ANWR, but it's certainly not going to change THAT much, and then what do we do when it's used up? It's not like we're actively seeking alternatives.

Drilling ANWR would only kill natural area without adding anything of substance to our oil independence. The right loves it b/c it sets a precedent for the way oil companies can treat our environment.

 

[nibor]

Once again.

The reason oil is high is not because of capitalism. It's because the libs refuse to allow us to access our own oil. It's because the libs refuse to allow us to build refineries. It's because the libs think it's a good idea to take food from our own mouths to put into our gas tanks INSTEAD of accessing what is readily available. You don't have to be a genius to understand this: capitalism leads to lower prices, not higher. But when you start messing with people's ability to access/develop their own land, when you tax exhorbitantly those who provide jobs and commodities, THEN you get an out-of-whack economy, and the little guy feels the crunch.

But you guys don't care about the little guys, or you'd realize it's a GOOD thing to harvest our own resources, and be self-sufficient.

Libs libs libs libs libs...............no oil refineries for the last thirty years............fucking libs..............China fighting us for the oil off our own shores , fucking libs..................GET A NEW SCRIPT WILL YOUS PLEASE.........because we're being circle jerked down BOTH fucking aisles!!!!!!

 

[Paulie]

Drilling ANWR would only kill natural area without adding anything of substance to our oil independence. The right loves it b/c it sets a precedent for the way oil companies can treat our environment.

If it was a situation where we absolutely needed to get the oil to survive, then I'd say go for it. But it's an issue where I think the loss far outweighs the benefits if it's only being done to ease our dependence. 5% for only 22 years isn't much of an ease.

Oddly enough though, the majority of the citizens, mostly native Alaskans, in the ANWR areas support the drilling. I've always thought that was strange. I'd expect them to be more preservationist about their natural habitat. Perhaps because they realize the economic benefits to them especially.

 

[TopGunna]

The price of crude has shot up because of huge increases in demand, thanks to the exploding economies of India and China.

The reality is that 77% of the world's oil reserves are exclusively controlled by foreign national oil companies (NOCs). By contrast, Lukoil controls 1.21%, Exxon-Mobil controls 0.62%, and Chevron controls 0.59%. In total, independent oil companies control about 6% of the known reserves. That's far from a monopoly, and would make it pretty difficult to price gauge.

But just for fun, what sort of profit is US big oil turning? As an industry, 8.3%. Of course, keeping that same profit percentage as input costs rise results in higher profits from a nominal standpoint. So yes, the companies now turn 30 cents a gallon in profit instead of 10 cents a gallon.

How does 8.3% compare? The beverage and tobacco industry turns 21.6%. Pharmaceuticals? 18.8%. Computers? 14.5% Even the apparel industry turns 8.5%! How unreasonable is 8.3%??

Furthermore, who owns these huge profits from independent oil companies? Well, as you may know, shares of public companies can be bought and sold by all Americans! The oil industry is no different - 14% are held in IRAs, 23% by individual investors, 27% in pension plans, 29.5% in mutual funds and 5% is held by other institutional investors.

Those greedy corporate insiders? 1.5%

It's the demand, stupid!

 

[jillian]

If it was a situation where we absolutely needed to get the oil to survive, then I'd say go for it. But it's an issue where I think the loss far outweighs the benefits if it's only being done to ease our dependence. 5% for only 22 years isn't much of an ease.

Oddly enough though, the majority of the citizens, mostly native Alaskans, in the ANWR areas support the drilling. I've always thought that was strange. I'd expect them to be more preservationist about their natural habitat. Perhaps because they realize the economic benefits to them especially.

Not a lot of work up in Alaska maybe... ANWR would be a shot in the arm economically. But that's not a good enough reason to destroy it.

 

[BrianH]

The price of crude has shot up because of huge increases in demand, thanks to the exploding economies of India and China.

The reality is that 77% of the world's oil reserves are exclusively controlled by foreign national oil companies (NOCs). By contrast, Lukoil controls 1.21%, Exxon-Mobil controls 0.62%, and Chevron controls 0.59%. In total, independent oil companies control about 6% of the known reserves. That's far from a monopoly, and would make it pretty difficult to price gauge.

But just for fun, what sort of profit is US big oil turning? As an industry, 8.3%. Of course, keeping that same profit percentage as input costs rise results in higher profits from a nominal standpoint. So yes, the companies now turn 30 cents a gallon in profit instead of 10 cents a gallon.

How does 8.3% compare? The beverage and tobacco industry turns 21.6%. Pharmaceuticals? 18.8%. Computers? 14.5% Even the apparel industry turns 8.5%! How unreasonable is 8.3%??

Furthermore, who owns these huge profits from independent oil companies? Well, as you may know, shares of public companies can be bought and sold by all Americans! The oil industry is no different - 14% are held in IRAs, 23% by individual investors, 27% in pension plans, 29.5% in mutual funds and 5% is held by other institutional investors.

Those greedy corporate insiders? 1.5%

It's the demand, stupid!

I agree, but said it in simpler terms at the top of the thread. Because you and I will pay for it, and have to pay for it...that's driving demand. If it were up to any of us, we wouldn't need gasoline, but because or vehicles run off of it, and most of us have to drive to work, then the demand is created. I like the stastics.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Once again.
The reason oil is high is not because of capitalism. It's because the libs refuse to allow us to access our own oil. It's because the libs refuse to allow us to build refineries

I saw that there are ~400B barrels of recoverable oil, untapped, under North Dakota.

http://www.nd.gov/ndic/ic-press/bakken-form-06.pdf

We import 14M BPD. At that rate, said deposit would last 78 years, and remove us from our dependence on foreign oil.

Let the Envirowhining begin....

But you guys don't care about the little guys, or you'd realize it's a GOOD thing to harvest our own resources, and be self-sufficient.

Environmentalists are like watermellons.
Green on the outside, red in the middle.

 

[Paulie]

The price of crude has shot up because of huge increases in demand, thanks to the exploding economies of India and China.

The reality is that 77% of the world's oil reserves are exclusively controlled by foreign national oil companies (NOCs). By contrast, Lukoil controls 1.21%, Exxon-Mobil controls 0.62%, and Chevron controls 0.59%. In total, independent oil companies control about 6% of the known reserves. That's far from a monopoly, and would make it pretty difficult to price gauge.

But just for fun, what sort of profit is US big oil turning? As an industry, 8.3%. Of course, keeping that same profit percentage as input costs rise results in higher profits from a nominal standpoint. So yes, the companies now turn 30 cents a gallon in profit instead of 10 cents a gallon.

How does 8.3% compare? The beverage and tobacco industry turns 21.6%. Pharmaceuticals? 18.8%. Computers? 14.5% Even the apparel industry turns 8.5%! How unreasonable is 8.3%??

Furthermore, who owns these huge profits from independent oil companies? Well, as you may know, shares of public companies can be bought and sold by all Americans! The oil industry is no different - 14% are held in IRAs, 23% by individual investors, 27% in pension plans, 29.5% in mutual funds and 5% is held by other institutional investors.

Those greedy corporate insiders? 1.5%

It's the demand, stupid!

Almost in complete agreement with you. But it's not JUST demand. It's also due to the amount of inflation we've been exporting over the last 10 years specifically. Saudi Arabia's inflation is sky-rocketing, for starters. China's is up, India's has been high...

Our currency devaluation, which almost seems intentional these days, is bringing the price of commodities up. Oil is always high when the dollar is low, it trends with gold. When the reserve currency is tanking, the money moves into commodities. That's the market though.

People just need a scapegoat. It makes us feel better if we have a specific entity we can blame, and the media unfortunately conditions us to view the oil companies as the problem. I don't see this latest congressional attempt to challenge the oil companies is anything more than smoke and mirrors. The oil industry is untouchable to congress. The lobby is way too powerful, and most congresspeople are unfortunately handcuffed by it.

 

[BrianH]

Harvesting our own resources will do nothing to solve our problem. It will not help us become independent of oil...which should be the main goal. The problem with that, is that the big oil companies will squash any attempt to change the current energy strategy. And if they don't, they'll by the patents and find a way to promote independence from oil while raping us on the newer energy resource.

 

[M14 Shooter]

But just for fun, what sort of profit is US big oil turning? As an industry, 8.3%

The federal government makes more from a gallon of gas than the oil company.

 

[Paulie]

I saw that there are ~400B barrels of recoverable oil, untapped, under North Dakota.

http://www.nd.gov/ndic/ic-press/bakken-form-06.pdf

We import 14M BPD. At that rate, said deposit would last 78 years, and remove us from our dependence on foreign oil.

You're taking the highest estimate of all recoverable and irrecoverable oil.

A conservative estimate of Bakken's technically recoverable oil would be 1% to 3%, or between 4.1 and 12.4 billion barrels (0.6–2 km&#179 of oil, due to the fact that Bakken's shale is so tight. However, other estimates range from 10% to as high as 50% technically recoverable reserves.[7] By comparison, recoverable oil estimates in the Alaska formation are 30% to 50%, or a mean of 26 billion barrels (4 km&#179.

Not counting the Bakken Formation, there are about 175 billion barrels (28 km&#179 of technically recoverable oil in the United States,[8] so the formation represents a substantial increase in U.S. reserves, which can be produced at an estimated cost of $20–40 a barrel.[9]

Starting in March, 2008, the U.S. Geological Survey will re-survey the Williston Basin which includes the Bakken Formation.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakken_Formation

The lowest estimate is still a good amount of oil. A better estimate would be about 40+ years of reserves, if you take the high end of the conservative estimate. It's a good amount of time, but my kids and most likely me will still be alive when we run out of oil. What then?

The oil and petro-chemical lobbies need to prove to us that they can accept alternative fuels so that when we run out of our own reserves, we have a back-up plan. Because I'm really getting sick of invading countries for this shit. Aren't you?