OH MY GAWD! What if Holder didn't know about ATF gunwalking?

[hjmick]

That means Holder is shit as a leader of the DOJ and should resign his position.

Piffle.

If we're gonna have that as the standard, how about when Ronnie Ray-Gun got away with Iran Contra by repeating, over and over again, "I don't know, I don't recall, I can't remember"?

Which is worse - the the commander in chief didn't know wtf was going on or couldn't remember?

How about we have the same standards for both left and right?

Heh - never happen. If we did that, we'd have to fire about one third of the Republican congress.

Luddly, you may not believe this, but I do my best to hold both parties to the same standards. I may not always succeed, but I try.

I paraphrase Penn Gillette...

I may be biased, but I try to be fair.

In truth, I don't consider myself all that biased, but you get the point.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010

WASHINGTON - New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010 - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Terry was not killed until December 2010.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is a stupid argument. So what? There may still be guns in Mexico and in the U S that were involved in those programs. There may be violence commited with them far into the future.

A stupid argument? Dean's assertion in the OP was Holder did not know until after Terry was killed. Which is not true.

 

[DiamondDave]

Starts off on the wrong premise anyway.. this was not a continuation of any Bush administration action... Bush's operation was HALTED IN 2007.. This one is entirely on the Obama administration...

So the rest of the conclusions are instantly suspect

 

[francoHFW]

The french might not understand but the death of a US Border Patrol officer shot in the back in the line of duty is no B.S. The facts are that the Attorney General might be the top law-enforcement officer in the Country but he is not above the law. He cannot refuse a congressional subpoena even if he has a little army of ignorant lefties who support his decision.

Can you read? Investigate the out of control ATF who started this under Booosh (another nice legacy like GSA and the DEPRESSION)) and never told anyone...and this Issa committee. The Senate should start a committee doing that...LOL

 

[freedombecki]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

Why report a story that is over a year old?

You guys have passing the buck down to Bush to an art form. The story is from June 2011, not this year. Since then it has come out the Bush administration decided AGAINST giving guns to drug lords.

So posting the same old lying trash suits which agenda?

 

[Jackson]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

Then they wouldn't be holding back documents via Executive Privilege now would they?

 

[francoHFW]

Holder did say the character of F+F was not mentioned in that 2010 meeting. And the exATF chief never told the Bush OR Obama administration about it- typical out of control Boooosh agency, like GSA. You dupes have the attention span of gnats. And want to do that catastrophic mess AGAIN, but a W clone with NO personality this time. Brilliant!

 

[francoHFW]

Only dupes think Issa et al have shown any reason to get more documents, and the Wiretap and grand jury transcripts they want are illigal to hand over. TOTAL BS, dupes.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

No. If he had nothing to hide he wouldn't have had O use the executive privilege excuse. If there were incriminating evidence against the Bush admin, O wouldn't be able to turn over the evidence fast enough.

 

[freedombecki]

Only dupes think Issa et al have shown any reason to get more documents, and the Wiretap and grand jury transcripts they want are illigal to hand over. TOTAL BS, dupes.

The DOJ of Obama/Holder are not forthcoming with known documents. Not a first in this administration of zero transparency.

 

[Harry Dresden]

That means Holder is shit as a leader of the DOJ and should resign his position.


I have a hard ******* time believing that Holder had no clue about an operation that delivered a shitload of guns from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels and resulted in hundreds of murders including that of a Border Patrol agent.

If he didn't, he needs to go, along with the people who did this behind his back.

Why do you say that? Bush kept the cost of the two wars from the American people for years. The way these Republicans hate both Obama and Holder, I'm sure there are lots of things they weren't told. Hell, Republicans have publicly stated they want this president to fail. Information is power. So is keeping it secret. We know Republicans hate Obama more than they love America. That's a given.

why dont you just say it Dean.....its because they are black.....what else could it be?....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

Mr Miller is a liar. Their is clear evidence that Holder knew about the operation in May of 2010, Fast and Furious continued until December of 2010 when whistle blowers took the details to Congress.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I am shocked, shocked, that Pubs, the PPM, and the dupes are FOS as always...They should be investigating the ATF but that wouldn't follow their BS story line.

Strangely, Obama and Holder believe in facts and the law. A) Issa et al want stuff they haven't shown they need, since they're totally FOS propagandists, and B) they've asked for Grand jury and wiretap transcripts, which it would be ILLEGAL to hand over.

Lying Pubs and brainwashed dupes= the modern world's worst party.

hosted by Frankie.....the modern worlds most brainwashed Democrat....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010

WASHINGTON - New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010 - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Terry was not killed until December 2010.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yet the very same memo you posted says the operation started in September of 2009. That means this entire operation with started WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE of Eric Holder. The second memo has no mention of Holder in any of the addresses listed.
The third memo is completely blacked out.

Further on in the story:

Agent Dodson and other sources say the gun walking strategy was approved all the way up to the Justice Department. The idea was to see where the guns ended up, build a big case and take down a cartel. And it was all kept secret from Mexico.

ATF named the case "Fast and Furious."

See? AFT named the case. Not the Justice Department.

And at the end of the article, it says, "The Justice Department told CBS News that the officials in those emails were talking about a different case started before Eric Holder became Attorney General."

You see what I mean? We aren't going to know what the truth is. But how did Holder put together such an enormous operation so soon after he became Attorney General, and in a "pro-Bush, pro-Republican" area where all Republicans want to do is block the Obama administration?

It doesn't pass the "smell" test. Even you have to admit that. And next time, read your links.

The real point here is that your source is a liar. The operation did not start under Bush, and the order to stop it did not come when Holder learned about it. The earliest documentation of Holder's knowledge in the public domain does not prove he knew about it from the beginning, it also does not clear him of knowing about it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Fine, why doesn't he just produce the documents congress subpoenaed and be done with it? We learned from Watergate that the cover up is worse than the crime. Holder is no legal genius, he is a lock-step left wing zombie like the rest of the cabinet including a treasury secretary who didn't pay income tax because he didn't know how to fill out the forms so maybe he is unaware that he is creating the image of corruption.

The same reason many of the documents couldn't be produced when the Bush administration outed a covert CIA agent. We know it's treason, but documents couldn't be produced because it jeopardized ongoing operations.

If Issa really wanted to get to the bottom of this, he would have subpoenaed the people who actually started the program. This is a political attack on Holder. If Holder proves he knew nothing about this program and moved to stop it when he found out, and coming from a Republican area, it will be a disaster for Republicans.

The question is, what could Holder possibly gain from such a ridiculous operation? Republicans I understand because they do so many really dumb things.

No it didn't, it was a political cover up. If the reasons are the same here that makes this a political cover up also.

Want to try again?

 

[salem.hills]

Why won't Holder resign or Obama fire him? *jeopardy music plays*


Must be bad

 

[Harry Dresden]

Dean,Frankie,Dudley and Lucunta.....all together in one thread.....this is more excitement than anyone should have to endure......

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This will end up as nothing but Pub lies and propaganda, over in a week, yet the Pubs and dupes will refer to it as a true scandal forever- like ACORN, NBPP, you name it. Luckily that's only 40% 0f the voters. A disgrace.

A lot of people thought a burglary of the DNC headquarters was nothing in 1973. It took Watergate 8 months to move from an obscure burglary to national news, 6 months after that history was made when Nixon became the first president in history to resign.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Holder did say the character of F+F was not mentioned in that 2010 meeting. And the exATF chief never told the Bush OR Obama administration about it- typical out of control Boooosh agency, like GSA. You dupes have the attention span of gnats. And want to do that catastrophic mess AGAIN, but a W clone with NO personality this time. Brilliant!

Holder also said the 2010 meeting didn't discuss Fast and Furious at all. If he lied about the first why should I believe him about the second?

 

[Wacky Quacky]

Fine, why doesn't he just produce the documents congress subpoenaed and be done with it? We learned from Watergate that the cover up is worse than the crime. Holder is no legal genius, he is a lock-step left wing zombie like the rest of the cabinet including a treasury secretary who didn't pay income tax because he didn't know how to fill out the forms so maybe he is unaware that he is creating the image of corruption.

The same reason many of the documents couldn't be produced when the Bush administration outed a covert CIA agent. We know it's treason, but documents couldn't be produced because it jeopardized ongoing operations.

If Issa really wanted to get to the bottom of this, he would have subpoenaed the people who actually started the program. This is a political attack on Holder. If Holder proves he knew nothing about this program and moved to stop it when he found out, and coming from a Republican area, it will be a disaster for Republicans.

The question is, what could Holder possibly gain from such a ridiculous operation? Republicans I understand because they do so many really dumb things.

Then why doesn't Holder do that? If it would be a death blow to republicans then why he is still holding back documents?

I'll tell you why. Whether he has the documents or not, whether he was involved or not, Holder won't release the documents because we are in an election year and washington wants the american people as divided as we can get. It makes it easier for politicians to get elected. So they picked an issue that is divided along partisan lines, and draw it out as long as they can like some sick soap opera.

It was the same thing with Obama's birth certificate. He held it back as long as he did to create partisan division between the people. It inflames partisan passions and makes sure that you brainwashed two-party morons vote exactly the way they want you to.