Official USMB What is a Wall? Why a Wall?

[jknowgood]

Ouch. Or not...

Department of Homeland Security testing of a steel slat prototype proved it could be cut through with a saw, according to a report by DHS.

A photo exclusively obtained by NBC News shows the results of the test after military and Border Patrol personnel were instructed to attempt to destroy the barriers with common tools.

Steel prototype for border wall cut through with saw, photo shows

/-----/ Why didn't you post this accompanying piece?
Number of sick kids soars at border; tuberculosis, flu, infections land migrants in hospitals

If you want to start a conversation about the total incompetence at the border by the Trump administration, please make your own thread.

Hilarious watching you Leftards screaming for open borders and defunding ICE as 2020 kicks off.

Not as hilarious as watching you rubes erupt in raucous applause because Mexico was going to build the wall for you

One day you will grow up. Your side lost get over it. Keep this shit up and you gonna get 4 more years of Trump.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

You have to love stupid. Somehow they all forget no one is saying that any barrier by itself is going to stop any one. There will still be border patrols. Trying to cut through a barrier will not only take time but attract attention. But idiots assume that leaving the border open is preferable.

Like I have said 1000 times, you don't need facts and evidence when you have a steady supply of sheep that will believe anything you say.
All NBC needs is to simply insinuate something is bad about Trump and the sheep will follow.
And in this thread you see it works flawlessly.

 

[jknowgood]

You have to love stupid. Somehow they all forget no one is saying that any barrier by itself is going to stop any one. There will still be border patrols. Trying to cut through a barrier will not only take time but attract attention. But idiots assume that leaving the border open is preferable.

Like I have said 1000 times, you don't need facts and evidence when you have a steady supply of sheep that will believe anything you say.
All NBC needs is to simply insinuate something is bad about Trump and the sheep will follow.
And in this thread you see it works flawlessly.

 

[teddyearp]

Ouch. Or not...

Department of Homeland Security testing of a steel slat prototype proved it could be cut through with a saw, according to a report by DHS.

A photo exclusively obtained by NBC News shows the results of the test after military and Border Patrol personnel were instructed to attempt to destroy the barriers with common tools.

Steel prototype for border wall cut through with saw, photo shows

How much did Obama and Pelosi spend building the walls around their homes?

Probably a lot less than the countless billions building, manning, and maintaining Trump’s vanity project will cost. And a person fleeing crippling poverty and death wouldn’t even need a ladder, saw or torch to jump over.

I wonder what would happen to a person fleeing crippling poverty and death that hopped over Pelosi's or Obama's wall. . .

 

[Slade3200]

Are you joking? You know what it sounds like you’re saying... it sounds like your saying that Obama was a serious politician whose campaign rhetoric should be taken seriously, so when he said keep your doctors and plans and that didn’t happen it is a LIE. Since Trump is a notorious big mouth who carelessly uses hyperbole then he doesn’t need to be held accountable for the things he promises.

Do you see the hypocrisy and how silly that sounds?

Trump's use of hyperbole, and the way it confuses some people but not others, was extensively discussed during the campaign.


YOu are acting like you have not considered this issue before.


That is not credible.

I consider hyperbole from the president of the United States to be the same thing as propaganda. That office and running for that office should hold higher standards. Obama should have been held accountable for the doctor plan promise and Trump should be held accountable for the Mexico will pay for it promise, amoungst the many other “hyperbolized” promises he made. You shouldn’t be making excuses and accepting that shit as par for the course. IMO

1. Hyperbole and propaganda are two distinct forms of communication. They can overlap, but pretending that they are the same, is, ironically, as dishonest as you are claiming that Trump is.

2. You believe that the Office of the President should be held to a "higher standard" that does not include regular use of hyperbole. That is a fine opinion. The nation as a whole, disagreed when they elected Trump. Your disagreement with US, does not change the fact that hyperbole is part of Trump's communication style.

3. I agree that Obama should have been held accountable for his lie on the doctor plan.

4. Trump, imo, should be held accountable he makes a strong, very strong, good faith effort to build a Wall, or a "wall" that is highly effective in vastly reducing the number of illegal border crossings.


5. Making Mexico pay, always struck me as far less of a serious commitment. I don't know how to explain to you how to distinguish between the two, but trust me on this. Though I would love it, if he did manage it.

First off, just because somebody is elected does not mean the majority of America accepts and supports everything that they do. There were two choices to choose from. Two horrible choices if you ask me.

Second, couldn’t I say the same thing about Obama that you are saying about Trump? He just wanted to fix our healthcare system so more people would be covered so he did everything he could to move the ball.... see, same argument

Lastly, please explain the difference between Trumps hyperbole and propaganda, cause I don’t see a difference.

1. Trump's hyperbole is part of the political landscape for now. You can dislike it all you want, but don't pretend to not know that.


2. Having a good reason to lie, is not the same as knowing that you are know for using hyperbole, and using hyperbole. It is not the same thing. Pretending it is, is not reasonable.

3. Sure, propaganda is information used to promote a particular cause or point of view. Hyperbole is exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally. Propaganda can be true, and good, while hyperbole can be used to make a completely true point. If you tell your wife that your love for her is deeper than the ocean, that is not a literal statement, but the point that it makes, ie, that you love her a lot, could very well be true.

Propaganda is defined more by WHAT the goal of a statement is, while hyperbole is more about style.


It is strange that I have to explain this.

Well you have more to explain because what you said isn’t applocable to this situation. If you are calling hyperbole exaggeration like “my love is as deep as the ocean” and propaganda as exaggeration and dishonesty to meet a political goal then much of Trumps rhetoric would fall into the propaganda category.

Locking her up was not an exaggeration. No contact with Russia is a straight up lie. Providing quick and affordable healthcare for all was not an exaggeration or a reality, Mexico paying for a wall was not an exaggeration or a reality. These were statements made in an attempt to stir emotions and gain the public trust so he could win an election. That’s propaganda.

Obama had the goal to reform healthcare and get more people in the country covered. He made a promise that he couldn’t keep as far as doctors and plans but he got the bill passed. So if Obama is a liar then Yrumpnos right there with him. Call it both ways. Trump has done the exact same thing with several issues except of course he has not followed through with quick and affordable healthcare or building his wall.

 

[Slade3200]

If the goal is to improve border security then you need unity and collaboration to get there. When you demonize the people you need to get legislation passed and when you brand your campaign in a way that goes against your political opponents values then you aren’t going to get anywhere.

But one side is fundamentally opposed to border security. Unity and collaboration will not get US there, no matter what.


And telling the truth about someone, is not demonizing them.

Just because you say they are fundamentally opposed to border security doesn’t make that true. It actually goes against the facts. The easiest example would be to point to last years budget where Dems approved a $1.3 billion budget specifically for border security.

Correct, it is not my words that make it true. It is their actions.


Like their opposition to the Wall. Their support of Amnesty for the millions already here. The calls to abolish ICE the agency responsible for border security. Their fighting any attempts by border states to help secure the border. Thier calling ICE, fascists and/or racist, ect. Their open ended arguments against controlling immigration, that if taken seriously would apply to billions. The hate they show to their fellow Americans who dare want their interests put ahead of citizens of foreign nations, in the context of American government policy. The way that they support sanctuary cities that side with illegals vs their own federal government.


For starters, off the top of my head.

Those are partisan talking points and not laying out all the facts in an objective way. The fact that they allocated 1.3 billion dollars last year for border security kills your argument that they are fundamentally against border security. They may support different ways of getting the job done. They may not place the same urgency and importance on the same things as you. They may have a different overall message that they want to push “welcome” vs “keep out”. But your statement is just not accurate

1. Calling my listing of their actions, "partisan talking points" in no way disputes or refutes any of them. All my points stand.

2. The fact that they allocated 1.3 for border security last year, could be seen as contrary evidence to my argument, is certainly does not "kill it".

Another more plausible explanation for the contradiction, is that they threw some money at the problem to give themselves some political cover, because they know that their real policy goals are terrible for the American people,and they want to hide that fact.


3. "Welcome" vs "Keep out" is being for an open border. We have an immigration process, and it is not supposed to be done by giving people the option of just walking across the border.


4. My statement is far more accurate than yours.

Your talking points are true for a fraction of fringe activists but you are not presenting all the facts in an objective way. Leadership and moderate Dems do not take those positions to that level. They fund border security, they don’t want to abolish ice, they want to fund tech, judges, agents and screening for ports of entry over a wall because that’s were most the drugs and trafficking are taking place. They want to deal with the illegal population in this country so millions aren’t living off the grid. They want to support home countries so less people flee and risk their lives to come here.

Yes when you say the Dems are fundamentally against border security you are just plain wrong. They have different policy ideas than you. They want to welcome people in need to the GATES and get them in the system legally. I don’t hear anybody serious advocating for open borders and no system for entry. That’s overblown right wing propaganda.

 

[Slade3200]

One of Trump's strong points is that he keeps his campaign promises. Agreed that winning in 2020 solves most of his potential legal issues too via the statute of limitations.
However, if Trump imposes a remittances fee on money transfers out of the US to fund the wall that builds the wall using Mexican and other foreign country funds. Its a way to keep his campaign promise regarding the wall:
The Remittance Fee in Oklahoma, Georgia, and in the U.S. Congress

I don’t think taxing people who are sending money to poor people in Mexico is going to fly as a good excuse for Mexico paying for the wall.

/---/ Post taxed or off the books money?

Why does that matter? It’s taking a percentage of money away from poor people in Mexico most often being sent by poor people trying to help their families. It’s a shitty idea for fund raising.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I wonder what would happen to a person fleeing crippling poverty and death that hopped over Pelosi's or Obama's wall. . .

 

[Lesh]

Trump is now claiming that HIS steel slat fence would be different from existing steel slat fences


I guess he's going to use stainless steel huh?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Ouch. Or not...

Department of Homeland Security testing of a steel slat prototype proved it could be cut through with a saw, according to a report by DHS.

A photo exclusively obtained by NBC News shows the results of the test after military and Border Patrol personnel were instructed to attempt to destroy the barriers with common tools.

Steel prototype for border wall cut through with saw, photo shows

/-----/ Why didn't you post this accompanying piece?
Number of sick kids soars at border; tuberculosis, flu, infections land migrants in hospitals

If you want to start a conversation about the total incompetence at the border by the Trump administration, please make your own thread.

Hilarious watching you Leftards screaming for open borders and defunding ICE as 2020 kicks off.

Not as hilarious as watching you rubes erupt in raucous applause because Mexico was going to build the wall for you

Even more hilarious when the minority Democrats watch Trump make Mexico pay for the completed wall by cutting aid.

 

[conserveguy877]

Looks like the Fake News and their bots have never heard of electronic sensors.

 

[Lesh]

Looks like the Fake News and their bots have never heard of electronic sensors.

Looks like you have an inflated view of what sensors can accomplish.

You want to build walls in remote areas and then pretend we can protect walls in remote areas.
When it takes minutes to cut through and hours to respond...if we even do respond...

Well you start to get the idea

 

[Thinker101]

Looks like the Fake News and their bots have never heard of electronic sensors.

Who needs sensors when they have drones?

 

[Thinker101]

Looks like the Fake News and their bots have never heard of electronic sensors.

Looks like you have an inflated view of what sensors can accomplish.

You want to build walls in remote areas and then pretend we can protect walls in remote areas.
When it takes minutes to cut through and hours to respond...if we even do respond...

Well you start to get the idea

WTF, this is our border not Libya.

 

[Lesh]

Looks like the Fake News and their bots have never heard of electronic sensors.

Looks like you have an inflated view of what sensors can accomplish.

You want to build walls in remote areas and then pretend we can protect walls in remote areas.
When it takes minutes to cut through and hours to respond...if we even do respond...

Well you start to get the idea

WTF, this is our border not Libya.

WTF do you think the Texas border looks like?

It's miles of desert

 

[Thinker101]

Looks like the Fake News and their bots have never heard of electronic sensors.

Looks like you have an inflated view of what sensors can accomplish.

You want to build walls in remote areas and then pretend we can protect walls in remote areas.
When it takes minutes to cut through and hours to respond...if we even do respond...

Well you start to get the idea

WTF, this is our border not Libya.

WTF do you think the Texas border looks like?

It's miles of desert

I see....so because it may LOOK like Libya, we may not respond. Dumbass.

 

[Norman]

Looks like the Fake News and their bots have never heard of electronic sensors.

Looks like you have an inflated view of what sensors can accomplish.

You want to build walls in remote areas and then pretend we can protect walls in remote areas.
When it takes minutes to cut through and hours to respond...if we even do respond...

Well you start to get the idea

WTF, this is our border not Libya.

WTF do you think the Texas border looks like?

It's miles of desert

I see....so because it may LOOK like Libya, we may not respond. Dumbass.

You don't understand. From the eyes of a leftist it's impossible to defend the border. They have never achieved anything so it looks completely impossible and insurmountable. They have admitted defeat and are ready to bow over to their new Mexican masters.

 

[Thinker101]

Looks like the Fake News and their bots have never heard of electronic sensors.

Looks like you have an inflated view of what sensors can accomplish.

You want to build walls in remote areas and then pretend we can protect walls in remote areas.
When it takes minutes to cut through and hours to respond...if we even do respond...

Well you start to get the idea

WTF, this is our border not Libya.

WTF do you think the Texas border looks like?

It's miles of desert

I see....so because it may LOOK like Libya, we may not respond. Dumbass.

You don't understand. From the eyes of a leftist it's impossible to defend the border. They have never achieved anything so it looks completely impossible and insurmountable. They have admitted defeat and are ready to bow over to their new Mexican masters.

True. I wonder how many actually know where the border is?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Ouch. Or not...

Department of Homeland Security testing of a steel slat prototype proved it could be cut through with a saw, according to a report by DHS.

A photo exclusively obtained by NBC News shows the results of the test after military and Border Patrol personnel were instructed to attempt to destroy the barriers with common tools.

Steel prototype for border wall cut through with saw, photo shows

A stupid article by unprincipled reporters. The border fence will be a smart fence, bristling with sensors and cameras that will instantly send the location of any attempt to breach or damage the fence to the Border Patrol which will send helicopters and ground vehicles to apprehend the perpetrators.

 

[Norman]

Looks like you have an inflated view of what sensors can accomplish.

You want to build walls in remote areas and then pretend we can protect walls in remote areas.
When it takes minutes to cut through and hours to respond...if we even do respond...

Well you start to get the idea

WTF, this is our border not Libya.

WTF do you think the Texas border looks like?

It's miles of desert

I see....so because it may LOOK like Libya, we may not respond. Dumbass.

You don't understand. From the eyes of a leftist it's impossible to defend the border. They have never achieved anything so it looks completely impossible and insurmountable. They have admitted defeat and are ready to bow over to their new Mexican masters.

True. I wonder how many actually know where the border is?

I think they would first have to read up on the concept of a border. Currently it seems that they trouble understanding what a border is and why countries have borders. Once it is understood what a border is, then the next step is to try and find it... after which we can start talking about how to secure it.