O'Donnell questions separation of church, state

[MarcATL]

POLITICO.com: VIDEOS

Listen to the crowd.

Heard the clip on Stephanie Miller this morning.

The fool is trying her DARNDEST to sound smart, serious and intelligent.

Sadly, the FOOL is just ignorant.

"You're telling me that that's in the First Amendment?"



The woman is a bonafide FOOL!!

 

[Meister]

I don't know.....I am actually tempted to believe that these Tea Party candidates such as Angle and O'Donnell are actually DUMBER than Dubya......which is quite a feat!

I think they are a group that simply wants politicians to do what they say they're going to do. On the 'right' that is actually making real steps toward smaller central government and a stricter adherence to the constiution.

Unfortunately it also seems to encompass many of the 'values' of the relgious right. Anti-homosexuality, life begins at conception, christian based legislation. It's this legislating morality where I part ways with the tea partiers and conservatives. They are positions that objectively speaking make no sense and I don't see helping the Republicans expand there control over congress.

REALLY? Please show me where the GOP has attempted to make for a smaller central government and/or stricter adherance to the Constitution? Bush doubled the deficit in his 8 years in office, plus gave out a sweetheart deal to big Pharma also know as MediCare Part D. Where is Medicare Part D in the Constitution?

Why does the left hold Bush as the epitome of conservatism? Everyone know that he isn't....but his name keeps coming up. Bush wan't a true conservative, but the left put up Gore, and Kerry to run against him.....just what did you people think the outcome would be?
Where is the Obama healthcare "requirement" in the Constitution?

 

[Sallow]

POLITICO.com: VIDEOS

Listen to the crowd.

Heard the clip on Stephanie Miller this morning.

The fool is trying her DARNDEST to sound smart, serious and intelligent.

Sadly, the FOOL is just ignorant.

"You're telling me that that's in the First Amendment?"



The woman is a bonafide FOOL!!

This should have been the Tipping point. It's not..but it should have been. It's the VERY FIRST FREAKIN AMENDMENT.

 

[GHook93]

Factually she is correct. No where in the first amendment does it say the Separation of Church and State!!! NO WHERE in the constitution does it say this.

The concept of the Separation of Church and State came from Case Law based on the preceived legislative intent of the first amendment! Reynolds v US Case, during the middle 1800s establish the WELL ACCEPTED concept of the Separation of Church and State.

While she was factually correct, her tactic was beyond a doubt stupid and I have no doubt that she is far from a constitutional scholar. Not knowing one recent Supreme Court case she disagrees with is outrageous! Nice prep work moron.

She should have stated, "Coon, while the concept, which I support, of the Separation of Church and State, came about via case law interpretation of the Establish Clause of the First Amendment, it is NOT stated in the First Amendment. If you or ANYONE can show me specifically in the first amendment or the CONSTITUTION for that matter, where it says stated SPECIFICALLY word for word Separation of Church and State, then I will drop out of the race! Will you take the same pledge that its in the constitution?"

Remember case law can change! Separate but equal came about after the 13th and 14th amendment in Plesy v. Ferguson. It was the law of the land for over a half century. Case law interpretations of the constitution can change!

Note: I am not saying Separation of Church and State will ever change and I would cry if it ever got changed, but O'Donnell is factually correct.

O'Donnell questions separation of church, state - Politics - Decision 2010 - msnbc.com

"Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?" O'Donnell asked him.

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"

Her comments, in a debate aired on radio station WDEL, generated a buzz in the audience.

I thought these Tea Party candidates were all about Constitutionalism? WTF???

 

[Sallow]

I think they are a group that simply wants politicians to do what they say they're going to do. On the 'right' that is actually making real steps toward smaller central government and a stricter adherence to the constiution.

Unfortunately it also seems to encompass many of the 'values' of the relgious right. Anti-homosexuality, life begins at conception, christian based legislation. It's this legislating morality where I part ways with the tea partiers and conservatives. They are positions that objectively speaking make no sense and I don't see helping the Republicans expand there control over congress.

REALLY? Please show me where the GOP has attempted to make for a smaller central government and/or stricter adherance to the Constitution? Bush doubled the deficit in his 8 years in office, plus gave out a sweetheart deal to big Pharma also know as MediCare Part D. Where is Medicare Part D in the Constitution?

Why does the left hold Bush as the epitome of conservatism? Everyone know that he isn't....but his name keeps coming up. Bush wan't a true conservative, but the left put up Gore, and Kerry to run against him.....just what did you people think the outcome would be?
Where is the Obama healthcare "requirement" in the Constitution?

A. He is..but what the heck.

Outside of say Coolidge/Harding/Hoover..all of whom were Presidents almost a century ago, which one do you guys hold up as Conservative?

B. From the Constitution:

Preamble Note
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Section 9 - Limits on Congress

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.

 

[GHook93]

Separation of church and state in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


a little reading for the right.


The First Amendment to the United States Constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

Hey smarty,

Point where in the first amendment, hell the entire constitution it specifically State Separation of Church and State and I will leave USMB for good! Will you make the same pledge that its in the constitution?

 

[Sallow]

Factually she is correct. No where in the first amendment does it say the Separation of Church and State!!! NO WHERE in the constitution does it say this.

The concept of the Separation of Church and State came from Case Law based on the preceived legislative intent of the first amendment! Reynolds v US Case, during the middle 1800s establish the WELL ACCEPTED concept of the Separation of Church and State.

While she was factually correct, her tactic was beyond a doubt stupid and I have no doubt that she is far from a constitutional scholar. Not knowing one recent Supreme Court case she disagrees with is outrageous! Nice prep work moron.

She should have stated, "Coon, while the concept, which I support, of the Separation of Church and State, came about via case law interpretation of the Establish Clause of the First Amendment, it is NOT stated in the First Amendment. If you or ANYONE can show me specifically in the first amendment or the CONSTITUTION for that matter, where it says stated SPECIFICALLY word for word Separation of Church and State, then I will drop out of the race! Will you take the same pledge that its in the constitution?"

Remember case law can change! Separate but equal came about after the 13th and 14th amendment in Plesy v. Ferguson. It was the law of the land for over a half century. Case law interpretations of the constitution can change!

Note: I am not saying Separation of Church and State will ever change and I would cry if it ever got changed, but O'Donnell is factually correct.

O'Donnell questions separation of church, state - Politics - Decision 2010 - msnbc.com

"Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?" O'Donnell asked him.

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"

Her comments, in a debate aired on radio station WDEL, generated a buzz in the audience.

I thought these Tea Party candidates were all about Constitutionalism? WTF???

No she's not.

This whole "exact words" argument is a little silly.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

where does it state that churches cannot be involved in politics?

Show me an example of ANYONE arguing that churches cannot be involved in politics.

If you would pull your head out of your ass you would have noticed that the argument has been going on for years. The fight against prayer in school, the fight against nativity scenes on display and so on and so forth. Liberals have been trying for decades to completely eliminate religious issues from public view including politics.

 

[Sallow]

Separation of church and state in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


a little reading for the right.


The First Amendment to the United States Constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

Hey smarty,

Point where in the first amendment, hell the entire constitution it specifically State Separation of Church and State and I will leave USMB for good! Will you make the same pledge that its in the constitution?

Why would I want you to leave anywhere?

Fundamentally..the first amendment takes government out of the business of legislating support or banning any religion.

That's essentially, implicitly and at it's core..a separation.

 

[GHook93]

POLITICO.com: VIDEOS

Listen to the crowd.

Heard the clip on Stephanie Miller this morning.

The fool is trying her DARNDEST to sound smart, serious and intelligent.

Sadly, the FOOL is just ignorant.

"You're telling me that that's in the First Amendment?"



The woman is a bonafide FOOL!!

No doubt. She is one of the few Republican (including Rand Paul) that I am rooting against. Its just sucks that their opponents are such left wing radicals! Never thought a left wing radical would be the lesser of two evils!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Separation of church and state in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


a little reading for the right.


The First Amendment to the United States Constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

Duh no shit Sherlock, everyone knows the government cannot makes laws respecting an establishmnet of religion, but where does it state that churches cannot be involved in politics?

Here's a hint.... IT DOESN'T!!

Which has WHAT to do with the question flubbed by O'Donnell, again?

Everything.

 

[Queen]

Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?

The term seperation of church and state comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson. He said:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

He's explaining the first amendment which says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

 

[Sallow]

where does it state that churches cannot be involved in politics?

Show me an example of ANYONE arguing that churches cannot be involved in politics.

If you would pull your head out of your ass you would have noticed that the argument has been going on for years. The fight against prayer in school, the fight against nativity scenes on display and so on and so forth. Liberals have been trying for decades to completely eliminate religious issues from public view including politics.

Those are all examples of Government advocating for a religion. That's a problem.

No one is saying that people can't have places of worship, put up nativity scenes on private property or pray at home. And churches can advocate for Candidates they want to see elected. Or not..up to them.

 

[Queen]

Hey smarty,

Point where in the first amendment, hell the entire constitution it specifically State Separation of Church and State and I will leave USMB for good! Will you make the same pledge that its in the constitution?

I think if you regard Thomas Jefferson as knowing what the constitution intends, we'll be saying,


BYE BYE!!!

 

[Queen]

Show me an example of ANYONE arguing that churches cannot be involved in politics.

If you would pull your head out of your ass you would have noticed that the argument has been going on for years. The fight against prayer in school, the fight against nativity scenes on display and so on and so forth. Liberals have been trying for decades to completely eliminate religious issues from public view including politics.

Those are all examples of Government advocating for a religion. That's a problem.

No one is saying that people can't have places of worship, put up nativity scenes on private property or pray at home. And churches can advocate for Candidates they want to see elected. Or not..up to them.

If churches want to involve themselves in politics, they should lose their no tax status.

 

[Sallow]

If you would pull your head out of your ass you would have noticed that the argument has been going on for years. The fight against prayer in school, the fight against nativity scenes on display and so on and so forth. Liberals have been trying for decades to completely eliminate religious issues from public view including politics.

Those are all examples of Government advocating for a religion. That's a problem.

No one is saying that people can't have places of worship, put up nativity scenes on private property or pray at home. And churches can advocate for Candidates they want to see elected. Or not..up to them.

If churches want to involve themselves in politics, they should lose their no tax status.

That's probably best left for another thread.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

"Separation of Church and State" is where exactly in the U.S. Constitution?

 

[GHook93]

Factually she is correct. No where in the first amendment does it say the Separation of Church and State!!! NO WHERE in the constitution does it say this.

The concept of the Separation of Church and State came from Case Law based on the preceived legislative intent of the first amendment! Reynolds v US Case, during the middle 1800s establish the WELL ACCEPTED concept of the Separation of Church and State.

While she was factually correct, her tactic was beyond a doubt stupid and I have no doubt that she is far from a constitutional scholar. Not knowing one recent Supreme Court case she disagrees with is outrageous! Nice prep work moron.

She should have stated, "Coon, while the concept, which I support, of the Separation of Church and State, came about via case law interpretation of the Establish Clause of the First Amendment, it is NOT stated in the First Amendment. If you or ANYONE can show me specifically in the first amendment or the CONSTITUTION for that matter, where it says stated SPECIFICALLY word for word Separation of Church and State, then I will drop out of the race! Will you take the same pledge that its in the constitution?"

Remember case law can change! Separate but equal came about after the 13th and 14th amendment in Plesy v. Ferguson. It was the law of the land for over a half century. Case law interpretations of the constitution can change!

Note: I am not saying Separation of Church and State will ever change and I would cry if it ever got changed, but O'Donnell is factually correct.

O'Donnell questions separation of church, state - Politics - Decision 2010 - msnbc.com



I thought these Tea Party candidates were all about Constitutionalism? WTF???

No she's not.

This whole "exact words" argument is a little silly.

The exact wording is not silly. For nearly century after the constitution was ratified the Separation of Church and State was doctrine of the US!

But be more specific, don't say the First Amendment say the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment! Here is what its says word for word:

Establishment Clause: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".
The Free Exercise Clause "... or prohibiting the free exercise thereof!"

Without Reynolds v. US the Separation of Church and State doctrine might have never occured or worse if the judges had a different view, then Separation of Church and State might have gone the other way.

We so easily take for granted laws of today that could have easily turned the other way.

For example, the dissent in Plesy v. Ferguson the late and great Justice Harlan state the ever true words of, "The law is color blinds!" If he was writting the majority opinion (I think he needed 2 more judges to vote his way, there Separate but Equal would never of occured. Brown v. the Board of Education wouldn't have been necessary.

Don't take for granted case law that could have gone the other way!

 

[GHook93]

Hey Fagboy,

You "Creating a wall of church and state" isn't in the constitution!

Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?

The term seperation of church and state comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson. He said:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

He's explaining the first amendment which says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

 

[Bern80]

I don't know.....I am actually tempted to believe that these Tea Party candidates such as Angle and O'Donnell are actually DUMBER than Dubya......which is quite a feat!

I think they are a group that simply wants politicians to do what they say they're going to do. On the 'right' that is actually making real steps toward smaller central government and a stricter adherence to the constiution.

Unfortunately it also seems to encompass many of the 'values' of the relgious right. Anti-homosexuality, life begins at conception, christian based legislation. It's this legislating morality where I part ways with the tea partiers and conservatives. They are positions that objectively speaking make no sense and I don't see helping the Republicans expand there control over congress.

REALLY? Please show me where the GOP has attempted to make for a smaller central government and/or stricter adherance to the Constitution? Bush doubled the deficit in his 8 years in office, plus gave out a sweetheart deal to big Pharma also know as MediCare Part D. Where is Medicare Part D in the Constitution?

That's exactly what I'm saying. You know in the sentence right before the one you bolded. I think the hope of many is that the tea party will walk the walk where those things are concerned. No argument from me at all that much of the GOP has not.

But I would never use what the GOP has done as an excuse to vote democrat. We are talking about what the parties say vs. what they do. We're both in agreement that the GOP has talked big about smaller government but not done much to get there. But democrates don't even say that. They make no bones about the fact that they have no intention to shrink the federal government. If smaller government is what you want you at least have to vote for the party that says they're going to do that.