Occupation 101

[Marc39]

If one completely and utterly submits (there is NO other word in Islam for the subjugation) to Islam then you can live peacefully within Islam. Jews or anyone else. It's not about race. It's not about land. Ideology never is although one can see the conquest for religious subjugation in some of its forms as it extends over land, but the land is not the reason for the conquest. It is subjugation in the form of submission.

Not quite correct. Submission, Islam, to the will of Allah ta'ala is what is required of Muslims. Submission is not required of the people of the dhimma living under an Islamic system, who are merely subdued (saghiroon) from exercising authority over the Muslims but are otherwise generally allowed to live according to their own legal systems. The nature of the dhimma and those who are under it is best explained by Hizb ut-Tahrir in this article

Lying, again, Abu? Good Muzzie.

 

[Ropey]

...an inaccurate description that fails to distinguish between living according to a system and merely acknowledging its ascendancy without actually having to abide by its tenets.

Tell that to the Christians in Iraq.

Google Churches burned by Muslims in Muslim countries. Then Google Synagogues burned by Muslims in Muslim countries.

Then repeat your statement.

 

[Kalam]

...an inaccurate description that fails to distinguish between living according to a system and merely acknowledging its ascendancy without actually having to abide by its tenets.

Tell that to the Christians in Iraq.

I would if they lived under a Shari'i system. Unfortunately, a nominal caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and a proper caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Rashidun.

 

[Ropey]

...an inaccurate description that fails to distinguish between living according to a system and merely acknowledging its ascendancy without actually having to abide by its tenets.

Tell that to the Christians in Iraq.

I would if they lived under a Shari'i system. Unfortunately, a nominal caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and a proper caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Rashidun.

Well, there are a few vying for that Caliphate at the moment.

I still choose Democracy.

 

[Marc39]

...an inaccurate description that fails to distinguish between living according to a system and merely acknowledging its ascendancy without actually having to abide by its tenets.

Tell that to the Christians in Iraq.

I would if they lived under a Shari'i system. Unfortunately, a nominal caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and a proper caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Rashidun.

But, the ultimate objective of the fraudulent cult of Islam is the reestablishment of a caliiphate.

Except, Muzzies are so incompetent, they can't even run one country, no less a caliiphate.

Sheikh Maulana Maududi...

Islam wishes to destroy all states and governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and program of Islam regardless of the country or the nation which rules it. The purpose of Islam is to set up a state on the basis of its own ideology and program … the objective of Islamic jihad is to eliminate the rule of an un-Islamic system and establish instead an Islamic system of state rule. Islam does not intend to confine this revolution to a single state or a few countries; the aim of Islam is to bring about a universal revolution.

 

[Marc39]

I would if they lived under a Shari'i system. Unfortunately, a nominal caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and a proper caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Rashidun.

That was the Ottoman Empire that denied Palestinians a homeland for 400 years.

Allah couldn't make that happen, Abu? I thought allah even invented the internet?

 

[Kalam]

Tell that to the Christians in Iraq.

I would if they lived under a Shari'i system. Unfortunately, a nominal caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and a proper caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Rashidun.

Well, there are a few vying for that Caliphate at the moment.

Ma sha' Allah.

I still choose Democracy.

And you're free to do so provided you aren't in the Muslim world. Israel is, unfortunately.

Either way, Jews under a caliphate can elect and serve as representatives in the Majlis al-Ummah and the regional assemblies like everyone else.

 

[Marc39]

And you're free to do so provided you aren't in the Muslim world. Israel is, unfortunately.

Israel existed at least 2,000 years before your pedophile Mahomet was even wearing diapers, Abu.

The Muhammadan trash invaded the Holy Land and the entire Middle East from Arabia, where Jews and Christians lived for thousands of years prior to the dreadful curse of Islam was even concocted by your child molesting false prophet

And, the pedophile Mahomet stole Judaism, its scripture, prophets and patriarchs for the false religion of Islam

Winston Churchill...

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/River-War-Sir-Winston-Churchill/dp/1598184253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288411221&sr=8-1[/ame]

 

[Ropey]

And you're free to do so provided you aren't in the Muslim world. Israel is, unfortunately.

And this is why I see much death in the middle east. There is no give and take with Islam. Sooner or later it's the borders that Muslims are attempting to extend at the moment. Then it is the borders of other countries where the silent sedition is attempting a beach head.

Thank you for your honesty at the very least. For your words extend just as Islam extends its reach. A global reach that demands a global response

 

[Marc39]

I would if they lived under a Shari'i system. Unfortunately, a nominal caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and a proper caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Rashidun.

Well, there are a few vying for that Caliphate at the moment.

Ma sha' Allah.

I still choose Democracy.

And you're free to do so provided you aren't in the Muslim world. Israel is, unfortunately.

Either way, Jews under a caliphate can elect and serve as representatives in the Majlis al-Ummah and the regional assemblies like everyone else.

Shariah law is not kind to the dhimmi, Abu...

NON·MUSLIM SUBJECTS OF THE
ISLAMIC STATE (AHL AL-DHIMMA)

THE NON-MUSLIM POLL TAX
The minimum non-Muslim poll tax is one
dinar (n: 4.235 grams of gold) per person (A: per
year). The maximum is whatever both sides agree
upon. .

Such non-Muslim subjects are obliged to comply with Islamic rules
that pertain to the safety and indemnity of life, reputation, and property.
In addition, they:
(1) are penalized for committing adultery or theft, though not for drunkenness;
(2) are distinguished from Muslims in dress, wearing a wide cloth belt (zunnar);
(3) are not greeted with "as-Salamu 'alaykum" ;
(4) must keep to the side of the street;
(5) may not build higher than or as high as the Muslims' buildings, though if they
acquire a tall house, it is not razed;
(6) are forbidden to openly display wine or pork, (A: to ring church bells or
display crosses,) recite the Torah or Evangel aloud, or make public display
of their funerals and feast days;
(7) and are forbidden to build new churches.

They are forbidden to reside in the Hijaz, meaning the area and
towns around Mecca, Medina, and Yamama, for more than three days
(when the caliph allows them to enter there for something they need).

http://www.onlineislamicstore.com/b2439.html

 

[Kalam]

And you're free to do so provided you aren't in the Muslim world. Israel is, unfortunately.

And this is why I see much death in the middle east. There is no give and take with Islam. Sooner or later it's the borders that Muslims are attempting to extend at the moment. Then it is the borders of other countries where the silent sedition is attempting a beach head.

Thank you for your honesty at the very least. For your words extend just as Islam extends its reach. A global reach that demands a global response

The goal of Hizb ut-Tahrir is to establish the caliphate in the Muslim world. As far as I'm aware, the only "expansion" into non-Muslim countries this entails is taking the North Caucasus from Russia -- which is undoubtedly a legitimate and righteous struggle -- East Turkestan from China, and Kashmir from India. In all of these cases, Muslims are oppressed and resistance movements have already been active for years.

 

[Ropey]

Ma sha' Allah

I agree that this is not in our hands. However, I must ask you this. There are three books of which the Torah is the oldest. Then came Christianity and then Islam. All three books have an end of days (not the world, but end of an age). They all differ in the endings.

You have a one in three chance, and with Nejad attempting to 'hasten' the twelfth, do you truly like those odds?

I would rather see peace with Israel and the Muslim world, but if that means submission (if you will) then there is only one outcome.

And yes, it could have been that way all along. But it's still a one in three chance.

So what came immediately before Judaism? The Bible itself tells us that the northern Hebrew kingdom of Israel was at all times polytheistic, and that the southern kingdom, Judah, was polytheistic until the late monarchical period, when King Josiah began to impose monotheism as the official religion of Judah. So, Judaism only began to evolve, in the form we know today, during the late monarchical period, the Babylonian Exile and the Persian period that followed. Many of the beliefs that we now find in Judaism were already held by the Persians and only found their way into Judaism during the Babylonian Exile and the early Persian period, causing some scholars to suggest that Judaism absorbed these beliefs from Zoroastrianism.

So, there was a long period when animism prevailed, followed by another long period of Hebrew polytheism, then the emergence of monotheistic Judaism, which may have absorbed much from the Zoroastrian religion, then finally Christianity split off from Judaism and then Islam split from Judaism as well. That answer which belief came first.

Do you believe this?

Or do you believe Islam, in its universal sense, is the precursor to Judaism and Christianity. It is the religion since the universe creation. Islam means submission to God, the Creator as the one and only one God. Accordingly, all God creations were coined on full submission to God. Only mankind were given by God the choice either to be in full submission to God (Islam) or to be polytheist or atheist. Prophets were sent to mankind by God to call for submission to God (to call for Islam). Islam per God revelation of Torah to Moses is called Judaism. Islam per God revelation of the Bible to Jesus is called Christianity. Islam per God revelation of Q'uran to Muhammad is called the very name Islam. Islam is the mission of all prophets since Adam including Noah, ..., Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, ..., Moses, ..., Jesus, and finally Muhammad (Peace be upon them all).

And if not that, what do you believe with regards to the three beliefs?

 

[Marc39]

And you're free to do so provided you aren't in the Muslim world. Israel is, unfortunately.

And this is why I see much death in the middle east. There is no give and take with Islam. Sooner or later it's the borders that Muslims are attempting to extend at the moment. Then it is the borders of other countries where the silent sedition is attempting a beach head.

Thank you for your honesty at the very least. For your words extend just as Islam extends its reach. A global reach that demands a global response

The goal of Hizb ut-Tahrir is to establish the caliphate in the Muslim world. As far as I'm aware, the only "expansion" into non-Muslim countries this entails is taking the North Caucasus from Russia -- which is undoubtedly a legitimate and righteous struggle -- East Turkestan from China, and Kashmir from India. In all of these cases, Muslims are oppressed and resistance movements have already been active for years.

But, Abu, the Muhammadan expanded beyond Arabia into the entire Middle East and north Africa.

Not satisfied, the expansionist Muhammadan conquered Spain in the Middle Ages and Portugal and Italy and other parts of Europe as well as Asia and Africa.

The Ottoman Empire, all stolen by the Muhammadan, spanned 3 continents.

Read, learn, Abu...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests

Abu, you need to open a history book. Didn't Allah invent Google?

 

[Kalam]

Ma sha' Allah

I agree that this is not in our hands. However, I must ask you this. There are three books of which the Torah is the oldest. Then came Christianity and then Islam. All three books have an end of days (not the world, but end of an age). They all differ in the endings.

You have a one in three chance, and with Nejad attempting to 'hasten' the twelfth, do you truly like those odds?

I would rather see peace with Israel and the Muslim world, but if that means submission (if you will) then there is only one outcome.

And yes, it could have been that way all along. But it's still a one in three chance.

So what came immediately before Judaism? The Bible itself tells us that the northern Hebrew kingdom of Israel was at all times polytheistic, and that the southern kingdom, Judah, was polytheistic until the late monarchical period, when King Josiah began to impose monotheism as the official religion of Judah. So, Judaism only began to evolve, in the form we know today, during the late monarchical period, the Babylonian Exile and the Persian period that followed. Many of the beliefs that we now find in Judaism were already held by the Persians and only found their way into Judaism during the Babylonian Exile and the early Persian period, causing some scholars to suggest that Judaism absorbed these beliefs from Zoroastrianism.

So, there was a long period when animism prevailed, followed by another long period of Hebrew polytheism, then the emergence of monotheistic Judaism, which may have absorbed much from the Zoroastrian religion, then finally Christianity split off from Judaism and then Islam split from Judaism as well. That answer which belief came first.

Do you believe this?

Or do you believe Islam, in its universal sense, is the precursor to Judaism and Christianity. It is the religion since the universe creation. Islam means submission to God, the Creator as the one and only one God. Accordingly, all God creations were coined on full submission to God. Only mankind were given by God the choice either to be in full submission to God (Islam) or to be polytheist or atheist. Prophets were sent to mankind by God to call for submission to God (to call for Islam). Islam per God revelation of Torah to Moses is called Judaism. Islam per God revelation of the Bible to Jesus is called Christianity. Islam per God revelation of Q'uran to Muhammad is called the very name Islam. Islam is the mission of all prophets since Adam including Noah, ..., Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, ..., Moses, ..., Jesus, and finally Muhammad (Peace be upon them all).

And if not that, what do you believe with regards to the three beliefs?

My beliefs are more in line with your second description. Islam dates back to Adam (AS), the first prophet, and was revealed to every civilization on Earth through subsequent messengers at one time or another. In every case, the word of God was abandoned or changed until Muhammad (SAWS) served the function of the final messenger and revealed Islam as we know it today through the Qur'an and through his own example.

 

[Marc39]

My beliefs are more in line with your second description. Islam dates back to Adam (AS), the first prophet

But, Abu, Adam lived thousands of years before Mahomet, who concocted Islam, was even born. Did Mahomet travel back in time even before he was born to convertt Adam to Islam?

Did allah invent time travel, Abu?

See how irrational Islam is, Abu?

Your fraudulent cult of Islam stole Judaism and its prophets because your pedophile Mahomet was a charlatan. His own people in Mecca kicked his ass out of town because they knew he was a fraud.

Abu, your posts are very funny.

 

[Ropey]

My beliefs are more in line with your second description. Islam dates back to Adam (AS), the first prophet, and was revealed to every civilization on Earth through subsequent messengers at one time or another. In every case, the word of God was abandoned or changed until Muhammad (SAWS) served the function of the final messenger and revealed Islam as we know it today through the Qur'an and through his own example.

Yes, as I had thought. There is only one book to your point of view. All the other books are abandoned but still held. Just as the split of Islam must be decided first. I have heard this all before.

There's only death or semi-submission. (if you will)

But to the highly submitted Muslims, semi-submission is like slavery and you are encroaching. That's why the fight was taken up. Israel is the nexus of the flash point.

As I said, I wish there was another way, but sadly I see millions of deaths coming. The Jews have their own end of days scenario and it's not pretty.

 

[Ropey]

The goal of Hizb ut-Tahrir is to establish the caliphate in the Muslim world. As far as I'm aware, the only "expansion" into non-Muslim countries this entails is taking the North Caucasus from Russia -- which is undoubtedly a legitimate and righteous struggle -- East Turkestan from China, and Kashmir from India. In all of these cases, Muslims are oppressed and resistance movements have already been active for years.

The Muslim world is expanding. Darfur and many flash points through out the world show the expansion and violence.

This is why Russia is moving towards a new alliance with the West. It is why China will bankroll dissension in Africa until it is time to take it over.

But as you said, this encroachment that has been off and on for many hundreds of years is back on. You couch the encroachment as legitimate and righteous struggles.

I've heard this before. Nothing new here. Nothing enlightening. Sadly, it just shores up my views more to the right.

 

[Marc39]

My beliefs are more in line with your second description. Islam dates back to Adam (AS), the first prophet, and was revealed to every civilization on Earth through subsequent messengers at one time or another. In every case, the word of God was abandoned or changed until Muhammad (SAWS) served the function of the final messenger and revealed Islam as we know it today through the Qur'an and through his own example.

Yes, as I had thought. There is only one book to your point of view. All the other books are abandoned but still held. Just as the split of Islam must be decided first. I have heard this all before.

There's only death or semi-submission. (if you will)

But to the highly submitted Muslims, semi-submission is like slavery and you are encroaching. That's why the fight was taken up. Israel is the nexus of the flash point.

As I said, I wish there was another way, but sadly I see millions of deaths coming. The Jews have their own end of days scenario and it's not pretty.

The cult of Islam believes that the entire world belongs to allah. Thus, it is the duty of all Muhammadans to re-claim all lands under the sovereignty of the kafir [non-Muslim] and force the kafir to convert, submit or be killed.

Bukhari V1B2N24...

Narrated Ibn Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.

 

[Kalam]

My beliefs are more in line with your second description. Islam dates back to Adam (AS), the first prophet, and was revealed to every civilization on Earth through subsequent messengers at one time or another. In every case, the word of God was abandoned or changed until Muhammad (SAWS) served the function of the final messenger and revealed Islam as we know it today through the Qur'an and through his own example.

Yes, as I had thought. There is only one book to your point of view. All the other books are abandoned but still held. Just as the split of Islam must be decided first. I have heard this all before.

There's only death or semi-submission. (if you will)

But to the highly submitted Muslims, semi-submission is like slavery and you are encroaching. That's why the fight was taken up. Israel is the nexus of the flash point.

As I said, I wish there was another way, but sadly I see millions of deaths coming. The Jews have their own end of days scenario and it's not pretty.

Israel takes a back seat to our own governments and, in my mind at least, Chechnya.

I should also make it clear that I don't speak for anyone but myself -- I do not possess any ijazat or any other sort of of official religious credentials, nor do I occupy any position of authority.

 

[Marc39]

My beliefs are more in line with your second description. Islam dates back to Adam (AS), the first prophet, and was revealed to every civilization on Earth through subsequent messengers at one time or another. In every case, the word of God was abandoned or changed until Muhammad (SAWS) served the function of the final messenger and revealed Islam as we know it today through the Qur'an and through his own example.

Yes, as I had thought. There is only one book to your point of view. All the other books are abandoned but still held. Just as the split of Islam must be decided first. I have heard this all before.

There's only death or semi-submission. (if you will)

But to the highly submitted Muslims, semi-submission is like slavery and you are encroaching. That's why the fight was taken up. Israel is the nexus of the flash point.

As I said, I wish there was another way, but sadly I see millions of deaths coming. The Jews have their own end of days scenario and it's not pretty.

Israel takes a back seat to our own governments and, in my mind at least, Chechnya.

I should also make it clear that I don't speak for anyone but myself -- I do not possess any ijazat or any other sort of of official religious credentials, nor do I occupy any position of authority.

You certainly do not speak for allah. You are clueless, Abu. Allahu fucku