Obama's plan is to redistribute the wealth.

[Turboswede]

I'm assuming that if the 40% are the ones who have accountants and lawyers on staff you would be as miffed as me regarding the unfairness of that scenario...

-Joe

Someone paying 0% tax is either:

A CPA with a family of 4 earning less than $14,000 per year

or...

I think that would be about it.

 

[Care4all]

so, you are disagreing with Obama, he wants to raise taxes
and btw, about 40% dont pay taxes now
so you can forget about giving them "their taxes back"

no, the poor pay their FICA taxes, and we are using FICA's money in the federal budget spending for things other than SS retirements etc....IN WHICH INCOME tax revenues SHOULD BE PAYING....

 

[Larkinn]

It's like Huckabee says. The fair tax is the way to go. If we had a fair tax we would need no congress. Congress exists to figure out who they are gonna levy taxes on. Who is to be punished.. How true, and the Dems clearly want to punish success. How strange.

Right, we would need no Congress. Except for Congress is the only one who gets to spend money...so there would be a 10% tax that would never get spent...

 

[DiveCon]

no, the poor pay their FICA taxes, and we are using FICA's money in the federal budget spending for things other than SS retirements etc....IN WHICH INCOME tax revenues SHOULD BE PAYING....

their FICA goes towards their social security
unless you want to take that away from them too

 

[Care4all]

their FICA goes towards their social security
unless you want to take that away from them too

no, the ss surplusses that they pay are going towards funding general expenses, with an iou in its place that may never be paid back...

And I, with others, are waiting for your PROOF that 40% of Americans do not or will not pay any taxes or income taxes.

you can't keep repeating something that no proof of such has been shown.

dole out the link that you got this info from, if i haven't missed it? If i have missed it, can you lead me in the right direction as to the post number you put the evidence link on.

 

[DiveCon]

no, the ss surplusses that they pay are going towards funding general expenses, with an iou in its place that may never be paid back...

And I, with others, are waiting for your PROOF that 40% of Americans do not or will not pay any taxes or income taxes.

you can't keep repeating something that no proof of such has been shown.

dole out the link that you got this info from, if i haven't missed it? If i have missed it, can you lead me in the right direction as to the post number you put the evidence link on.

income taxes
i never said ALL taxes
man you guys will twist anything

 

[pegwinn]

Nice job David, I have been bringing up FICA and Medicare but all people seem to want to talk about is FIT. Remember the federal gas tax too, that hits working Americans too.

Not to detract from your argument but there are some folks who don’t pay payroll taxes. I would be very surprised if Paris Hilton has or ever will pay payroll taxes. Only folks who work for a living get the opportunity to pay payroll taxes.

Paris Hilton would pay taxes if it was a national sales tax. So would drug dealers, billionaires, illegal immigrants, tourists, charlie rangel, yadablahetc.

ok pegwinn, now i know where you stand....at least i think i do?

you think the Fair tax is the way to go which is a consumption tax... Yes

My concerns with such is how real estate taxes would be paid and who would get these taxes, the feds or the local state gvt for schools? Real Estate Taxes are currently a state issue. There would be a sales tax on all new houses paid to the fed. Annual property taxes would remain a state issue as it is now.

Another concern would be whether companies would really price their goods lower since their own indirect tax reductions would lower their own cost of goods so to say, so that when we do have to pay 25% more in taxes it would not necessarily be 25% more for the product....this is hard to explain...i know i am not doing a good job of it....

But my main concern, is that i do not see how this really helps us reign in congressional deficit spending which IS the real problem...even with the financial crunch we are in, this IS the real problem with the credit crunch, along with a kazillion other things that stemmed from the housing boom and creative so to say, financial tools... Spending issues are not addressed by the Fairtax. Only collection of revenue. I would suggest that the enumerated powers act is a good start.

Here is why...

-Congress already IGNORES what revenues we bring in tax revenues, continues to spend big, and continues to borrow this money from foreigners...

-And, congress at any time can just raise the fair tax to a higher and higher and higher percentage of purchases....nothing stopping that... Nothing stops them from raising the income tax either.....

There is no doubt that we have a problem with our taxes...all of them -not just our income taxes and not just federal, but state and local as well and reform needs to be considered imo, however there is no plan that does not have it's own problems that would need addressing....

The main one is none of them prevents congress from taxing us more and none of them stops congress from deficit spending, which i believe is the MAIN problem....more important than who gets taxed at what percent for whatever portion of their income... The fairtax abolishes the income tax and restores your privacy. After all shouldn't your financial data be private? Nothing will ever be perfect. But if I have a choice of imperfect or less imperfect...

The progressive tax does not penalize the wealthy and give more to the poor...it goes by the income one makes for that portion of their income...ooooo tongue twister... The fairtax taxes you on what you spend instead of what you make. That alone is an incentive to save or invest. And I disagree with the "does not penalize", but that's ok so long as the discussion occurs.

what i mean is that IF the lowest tax bracket up to 8 k is taxed at 10%, then the poor man making only 8k is taxed at 10% for that, the guy in the middle for his first 8k is taxed at that rate and for the wealthiest among us, for his first 8k he is also taxed the 10%...NO ONE gets MORE than the other, same with the next bracket up, if the poor person makes it there, he will pay 15% on what he makes over the 8 k up to the next bracket hike, same with the wealthiest and same with the guy in the next tax bracket up.... and so on and so forth.....no one gets any more of a break on taxes than the next guy making more for every segment of income in the tax rate brackets....

This is not as progressive as one would think...if those in higher tax brackets were taxed for their entire income at the rate of their bracket then this would be MUCH MORE progressive, but the way it is done, is not....again, in my opinion.

Care

Nice to talk to someone who has an opposing opinion without resorting to become an ass in order to get a point across. Thanks.

 

[Care4all]

Paris Hilton would pay taxes if it was a national sales tax. So would drug dealers, billionaires, illegal immigrants, tourists, charlie rangel, yadablahetc.



Nice to talk to someone who has an opposing opinion without resorting to become an ass in order to get a point across. Thanks.

No.

thank you!

Are services also taxed as a sale?

Can the wealthiest get around this by making their big purchases in another country?

is food, a necessity, included in the fair tax?

Does the fair tax incorporate SS taxes in to it and will it pay for SS as well?

Real estate is already hurting and i don't think that part is a good idea....especially if local property taxes are also going to hit them and i do not understand how this kind of tax transition would or could take place....

Care

 

[jreeves]

no, the poor pay their FICA taxes, and we are using FICA's money in the federal budget spending for things other than SS retirements etc....IN WHICH INCOME tax revenues SHOULD BE PAYING....

The EIC was designed to help offset SS taxes and other payroll taxes for the poor. Now Obama wants to expand EIC and give tax credits(welfare) to the low income.

The expansion of EIC and more free money in the form tax credits is directly a redistribution of wealth since SS taxes and other payroll taxes were already accounted for with the Earned income credit.

 

[Chris]

The EIC was designed to help offset SS taxes and other payroll taxes for the poor. Now Obama wants to expand EIC and give tax credits(welfare) to the low income.

The expansion of EIC and more free money in the form tax credits is directly a redistribution of wealth since SS taxes and other payroll taxes were already accounted for with the Earned income credit.

As opposed to giving money to the oil companies and the wealthy?

 

[Red Dawn]

Hey, but he's no socialist.

Breitbart.tv Obama Tells Tax-Burdened Plumber the Plan is to ‘Spread the Wealth Around’

Fox News: Obama Tells Tax-Burdened Plumber the Plan is to ‘Spread the Wealth Around’

LOL, Classic. WTF, did somebody grave dig this thread?

Joe the Plumber lied. He wasn't a plumber, he didn't have any real plans to buy a company, his name's not joe, the company he worked for was only worth 100k and would have been under the 250k cap Obama has proposed.

And Joe's not "burdened" by taxes. He's a tax dodger who owes back taxes.

 

[jreeves]

As opposed to giving money to the oil companies and the wealthy?

Yes those damn oil companies aren't paying any taxes....
The Tax Foundation - Oil Company Profits and Tax Collections: Does the U.S. Need a New Windfall Profits Tax?
The answer to the first question is that over the past 25 years, oil companies directly paid or remitted more than $2.2 trillion in taxes, after adjusting for inflation, to federal and state governments—including excise taxes, royalty payments and state and federal corporate income taxes. That amounts to more than three times what they earned in profits during the same period, according to the latest numbers from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and U.S. Department of Energy.

These figures do not include local property taxes, state sales and severance taxes and on-shore royalty payments.

Neither are the wealthy...

 

[elvis]

LOL, Classic. WTF, did somebody grave dig this thread?

Joe the Plumber lied. He wasn't a plumber, he didn't have any real plans to buy a company, his name's not joe, the company he worked for was only worth 100k and would have been under the 250k cap Obama has proposed.

And Joe's not "burdened" by taxes. He's a tax dodger who owes back taxes.

that doesn't erase the fact that Obama said he's going to spread the wealth around. whether joe lied or not, there are plenty of prospective business owners out there that obama will soak.

 

[dilloduck]

that doesn't erase the fact that Obama said he's going to spread the wealth around. whether joe lied or not, there are plenty of prospective business owners out there that obama will soak.

shhhhhhh that's the part that they are trying to deflect from.

 

[DiveCon]

that doesn't erase the fact that Obama said he's going to spread the wealth around. whether joe lied or not, there are plenty of prospective business owners out there that obama will soak.

shhhhhhh that's the part that they are trying to deflect from.

not to mention, he didnt actually lie
but these fucking morons will never understand that simple truth

 

[Care4all]

The EIC was designed to help offset SS taxes and other payroll taxes for the poor. Now Obama wants to expand EIC and give tax credits(welfare) to the low income.

The expansion of EIC and more free money in the form tax credits is directly a redistribution of wealth since SS taxes and other payroll taxes were already accounted for with the Earned income credit.

good morning reeves!

The EIC has been a Tax Credit program that has been supported by ALL Presidents and all Parties since the program began a generation or two ago.

Mccain does not get rid of the EIC and would NEVER get rid of the EIC.

No one gets handed this money each week, when taxes are filed, if the family makes less than $17 k or so they qualify for EIC....the cutoff for a married couple's total earnings is making less than $14k a year.......

The EIC gives these people a credit for some of what they pay in FICA taxes.

It is the BEST and most EFFICIENT welfare, if this is what you want to call it, program that the USA has and has ever had.

These are the WORKING POOR, these are NOT people on the dole sitting home doing nothing...giving them more of their own tax monies back and letting them make the decision on how to use their own money empowers them as individuals to take care of themselves and their children, as any tax break or credit would empower any of us getting one.

We would be sooooooooooo fortunate as a country if all we needed to do with our poor welfare programs is give the poor a credit for their taxes paid from them WORKING.....

I fully and whole heartedly support expanding the EIC....it encourages the poor to work.

care

 

[editec]

yeah, so lets raise taxes on those with the ability to consume so they have less to spend
yeah, THAT will do wonders for the economy


Hint: the boat luxury tax in 1992
what happened?
they raised taxes on boats, the people that would normally buy them couldnt afford them, so they stayed with their older boats, the boat builders couldnt sell what they had built, they then had to lay off the workers, and some even went out of business

yeah, in a poor economic time the best thing to do is tax people more

I don't advocate raising taxces on the rich.

I merely advocate allowing taxes to return to the state they will return to if we dont' change another damned tax law.

What I DO advocate is changing our current trade policies and cutting back on goverment spending.

do that and in twenty years our society would be solvent again.

We cannot keep deindustrializing our society and expect it to thrive.

 

[Care4all]

if you dont think that plays a part in the bottom line of a business, then you are extremely naive

fyi....Obama's tax plan doesn't affect small businesses with higher taxes, it gives them a tax BREAK for the most.

In 2005 (the last year for which there is both data on nonemployers and employers at the U.S. Census Bureau), there were 20,392,068 nonemployers with a total income of $951 billion (Source: Nonemployer Statistics, 2005, Total for all sectors, United States). Small business employers1 numbered 5,878,784 (Source: Statistics of U.S. Businesses, All Industries, 2005). The total number of all employer and nonemployer businesses in 2005 was 26,375,614, of which 26,270,852 (or 99.6%) would qualify as small businesses as I’ve defined it above. This would be why people respond when you threaten to increase taxes on small businesses - there’s a LOT of small businesses.

But look closer at those numbers. The average income per nonemployer small business is the total income divided by the number of employers, which in this case is only $46,635. What that means is that the vast majority of nonemployer small businesses (which we can probably fairly say are mostly sole proprietorships) would be unaffected by the Obama tax cut. In fact, since they make so little, they’d get a tax cut, not a tax increase.

 

[Kit Parker]

All taxation is a redistribution of wealth.

 

[editec]

All taxation is a redistribution of wealth.

True.

No matter how necessary we might think that government service is, too.

Paying for anything by taxation is wealth redistribution. Government itself is wealth redistribution.

So the questions are: what do we think is needed; who pays for it; and to whom to we redistribute that wealth to take care of those services we think are necessary?

Those are always the questions we are asking ourselves in every one of these debates.

Unless you are an outright anarchist, the issue is ALWAYS: how much freedom we are willing to give up for how much benefit from that collective system we call government?