Obama's challenge: Anger is replacing hope

[Darkwind]

He's certainly facing some damned hard times.

And given that his mission is to reconstiute the same flwed system that got us into this mess, only this time with some minor regulations that don't really address the root cause if the problem, I'd say all his work is going to amount to nothing much at all.

We're still going down because we have yet to admit to ourselves that our system is bent to begin with.

We are STILL basically following the SUPPLY-SIDERS formula for how to run an economy.

This always intrigues Me.....

What exactly should replace the supply side formula? And get very specific and detailed.

For the sake of argument, I am going to let pass the notion that there is a supply side.

 

[Oldandtired]

Proof please
Proof please.
Anger and resentment for real? It could not possibly be because the opposition put up a token woman for VP who was totally not qualified and the real candidate flipped on so many things disingenuous is a compliment to him.
Both parties are guilty of using anger resentment and hate in every campaign where have you been?

Yes...both parties are guilty of that.

Not all people fall into it.

I vote based on my sentiments of a candidate...not based on the hatred he or she has for his opponent or his predecessor.

Well at least you and I can have a discussion as it apparently a waste of time to even get sense out of LibocalypseNow.

Now that we have some of the BS out of the way lets get to it.
Your problem with Obama is that he has not changed Washington at all correct?

No...not at all. I did not expect him to change Washington. How can he? He does not have the power to. He does not control congeress, Sadly, mnay believed him. I did not.

My problem with Obama is his refusal to adhere to the premise of personal responsibility. It is what made this country great...and it is what made our people great.

Instead, he believes thatthe people need to be protected from each other. He believes the government needs to ensure that people do not make the wrong decisions....and he believes government needs to ensure that others dont capitalize on those bad decisions.

He called those that did not read credit card applications as victims.
He called those that lied on their mortgage applications as victims.
He called those that played the market hoping their money will make money for them as victims becuase they lost the gamble.
He called those that took teaser rates so they can minimize their mortagge poayments as victims.

I was taught that I am responsible for my own destiny. Never took a vartiable mortgage. Never ignoired the fine print. Never made an investment EXPECTING nothing but positive returns....

We, as a nation, learn from our mistakes. But if the government will not allow us to make mistakes, we will never learn...and never grow....

ANd why is growth impeded?

Becuase without taking chances, you can not gain....

Obama wants everyoine to be content. That is ideology.

You can not govern the US with ideology. It needs to be goverened based on the vision of the founders.

Your turn.

 

[FireGod]

"Hope" is and always was a lie. It was "I hate that evil Boogeyman Bush!" that swept the Community Organizer and the Democrats back into power. Anyone who thinks different is just deluding themselves. Alinsky's 'Rules for Radicals' might just come back to haunt this President and the Democrats. I guess we'll see. Make 2010 count people.

OK I got it. I and the rest of us are very clear on how you think. Please stop unless there is more information to your posts. I know that I am not going to be able to convince you otherwise so please watch from the sidelines.

Thanks

 

[Darkwind]

Yes...both parties are guilty of that.

Not all people fall into it.

I vote based on my sentiments of a candidate...not based on the hatred he or she has for his opponent or his predecessor.

Well at least you and I can have a discussion as it apparently a waste of time to even get sense out of LibocalypseNow.

Now that we have some of the BS out of the way lets get to it.
Your problem with Obama is that he has not changed Washington at all correct?

No...not at all. I did not expect him to change Washington. How can he? He does not have the power to. He does not control congeress, Sadly, mnay believed him. I did not.

My problem with Obama is his refusal to adhere to the premise of personal responsibility. It is what made this country great...and it is what made our people great.

Instead, he believes thatthe people need to be protected from each other. He believes the government needs to ensure that people do not make the wrong decisions....and he believes government needs to ensure that others dont capitalize on those bad decisions.

He called those that did not read credit card applications as victims.
He called those that lied on their mortgage applications as victims.
He called those that played the market hoping their money will make money for them as victims becuase they lost the gamble.
He called those that took teaser rates so they can minimize their mortagge poayments as victims.

I was taught that I am responsible for my own destiny. Never took a vartiable mortgage. Never ignoired the fine print. Never made an investment EXPECTING nothing but positive returns....

We, as a nation, learn from our mistakes. But if the government will not allow us to make mistakes, we will never learn...and never grow....

ANd why is growth impeded?

Becuase without taking chances, you can not gain....

Obama wants everyoine to be content. That is ideology.

You can not govern the US with ideology. It needs to be goverened based on the vision of the founders.

Your turn.

 

[Oldandtired]

It is long but worthy of reading.

If you prefer, just read the last few paragraphs.

TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED THE
1930s, '40s, '50s, '60s and '70s!!


First, we survived being born to mothers who may have smoked and/or drank
while they were pregnant.

They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes.

Then, after that trauma, we were
put to sleep on our tummies
in baby cribs covered
with bright colored lead-based paints.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, locks on doors or cabinets,
and, when we rode our bikes,
we had baseball caps,
not helmets, on our heads.

As infants and children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, no booster seats, no seat belts, no air bags, bald tires and sometimes no brakes..

Riding in the back of a pick- up truck on a warm day was always a special treat.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle.


We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle, and no one actually died from this.

We ate cupcakes, white bread, real butter, and bacon. We drank Kool-Aid made with real white sugar. And we weren't overweight.
WHY?
Because we were always outside playing...that's why!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.
No one was able to reach us all day.
--And, we were OKAY.

We would spend hours building
our go-carts out of scraps..
and then ride them down the hill,
only to find out we forgot the brakes.. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem.

We did not have Play Stations, Nintendos and X-boxes. There were
no video games, no 150 channels on cable,
no video movies or DVDs,
no surround-sound or CDs,
no cell phones,
no personal computers,
no Internet and no chat rooms.

WE HAD FRIENDS
and we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut,
broke bones and teeth,
and there were no lawsuits
from those accidents.

We would get spankings with wooden spoons, switches, ping-pong paddles, or just a bare hand, and no one would call child services to report abuse.

We ate worms and mud pies
made from dirt, and
the worms did not live in us forever.

We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks and tennis balls, and
-although we were told it would happen- we did not put out very many eyes.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them.

Little League had tryouts
and not everyone made the team.
Those who didn't had to learn
to deal with disappointment.

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!

These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers,
problem solvers, and inventors ever.

The past 50 to 85 years have seen an explosion of innovation and new ideas..


We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.

 

[FireGod]

Well at least you and I can have a discussion as it apparently a waste of time to even get sense out of LibocalypseNow.

Now that we have some of the BS out of the way lets get to it.
Your problem with Obama is that he has not changed Washington at all correct?

No...not at all. I did not expect him to change Washington. How can he? He does not have the power to. He does not control congeress, Sadly, mnay believed him. I did not.

You are correct that one man can not change DC. I posit that the "hope" was more to inspire DC to do what is right and have a rally point to get out of the mess instead of having legislative gridlock.

My problem with Obama is his refusal to adhere to the premise of personal responsibility. It is what made this country great...and it is what made our people great.

I am not sure about your interpretation about Obama's view on personal responsibility, I will give that your views on the subject seem to be on track.

Instead, he believes thatthe people need to be protected from each other. He believes the government needs to ensure that people do not make the wrong decisions....and he believes government needs to ensure that others dont capitalize on those bad decisions.

He called those that did not read credit card applications as victims.

When sold often times there is a lot of pressure to resist not to mention the fine print is very very fine. However they did sign on the dotted line.

He called those that lied on their mortgage applications as victims.

They are not they are properly called crooks along with those that helped them.

He called those that played the market hoping their money will make money for them as victims becuase they lost the gamble.

To a point, however they also lost because of criminals there are no two ways about it.

He called those that took teaser rates so they can minimize their mortagge poayments as victims.

Hard selling and bait and switch tactics gotta love it.

I was taught that I am responsible for my own destiny. Never took a vartiable mortgage. Never ignoired the fine print. Never made an investment EXPECTING nothing but positive returns....

Lessons that are hard learned and good for you.

We, as a nation, learn from our mistakes. But if the government will not allow us to make mistakes, we will never learn...and never grow....

See now we start to have a bit of an impasse as the lesson of the past two years is to take all your money out of the banks and wall street because they have been proven multiple times not to be trustworthy right? On the flip side should that happen then the economy is going to tank right? So how do you fix that conundrum?

ANd why is growth impeded?

Because we do not make anything here all of our industries have moved outside the US because it is cheaper for the company.

Becuase without taking chances, you can not gain....

Obama wants everyoine to be content. That is ideology.

You can not govern the US with ideology. It needs to be goverened based on the vision of the founders.

Which vision is that in particular. I happen to agree that contentment is a good thing, too bad it only comes from within. So is integrity which is sadly lacking in the US of late.

 

[Oldandtired]

Well at least you and I can have a discussion as it apparently a waste of time to even get sense out of LibocalypseNow.

Now that we have some of the BS out of the way lets get to it.
Your problem with Obama is that he has not changed Washington at all correct?

No...not at all. I did not expect him to change Washington. How can he? He does not have the power to. He does not control congeress, Sadly, mnay believed him. I did not.

You are correct that one man can not change DC. I posit that the "hope" was more to inspire DC to do what is right and have a rally point to get out of the mess instead of having legislative gridlock.


I am not sure about your interpretation about Obama's view on personal responsibility, I will give that your views on the subject seem to be on track.


When sold often times there is a lot of pressure to resist not to mention the fine print is very very fine. However they did sign on the dotted line.

If the print is too fine, dont sign.


They are not they are properly called crooks along with those that helped them.

Mr. Obama referred to them as victims


To a point, however they also lost because of criminals there are no two ways about it.

They would not lose to criminals if they did not try to have their money make money for them

Hard selling and bait and switch tactics gotta love it.

You must read before you sign.


Lessons that are hard learned and good for you.


See now we start to have a bit of an impasse as the lesson of the past two years is to take all your money out of the banks and wall street because they have been proven multiple times not to be trustworthy right? On the flip side should that happen then the economy is going to tank right? So how do you fix that conundrum?

The problem would never have been a problem if people did not try to capitalize on ways to make money woithout really earning it...and yes, the corrupt capitlaized on them...but again, the corrupt can not capitalize on you if you do not play thyeir game.

ANd why is growth impeded?

Because we do not make anything here all of our industries have moved outside the US because it is cheaper for the company.

That is a consequence of government intervention.

Becuase without taking chances, you can not gain....

Obama wants everyoine to be content. That is ideology.

You can not govern the US with ideology. It needs to be goverened based on the vision of the founders.

Which vision is that in particular. I happen to agree that contentment is a good thing, too bad it only comes from within. So is integrity which is sadly lacking in the US of late.

Good stuff....thanks

 

[FireGod]

No...not at all. I did not expect him to change Washington. How can he? He does not have the power to. He does not control congeress, Sadly, mnay believed him. I did not.

You are correct that one man can not change DC. I posit that the "hope" was more to inspire DC to do what is right and have a rally point to get out of the mess instead of having legislative gridlock.


I am not sure about your interpretation about Obama's view on personal responsibility, I will give that your views on the subject seem to be on track.


When sold often times there is a lot of pressure to resist not to mention the fine print is very very fine. However they did sign on the dotted line.

If the print is too fine, dont sign.


They are not they are properly called crooks along with those that helped them.

Mr. Obama referred to them as victims


To a point, however they also lost because of criminals there are no two ways about it.

They would not lose to criminals if they did not try to have their money make money for them

Hard selling and bait and switch tactics gotta love it.

You must read before you sign.


Lessons that are hard learned and good for you.


See now we start to have a bit of an impasse as the lesson of the past two years is to take all your money out of the banks and wall street because they have been proven multiple times not to be trustworthy right? On the flip side should that happen then the economy is going to tank right? So how do you fix that conundrum?

The problem would never have been a problem if people did not try to capitalize on ways to make money woithout really earning it...and yes, the corrupt capitlaized on them...but again, the corrupt can not capitalize on you if you do not play thyeir game.
So you are all for everyone pulling out their money from the banks and stocks should they not be able to lose it right?

Because we do not make anything here all of our industries have moved outside the US because it is cheaper for the company.

That is a consequence of government intervention.
I am thinking that there is a whole lot more to it then government intervention I would go so far to say that it plays a mostly small part in the problem.

Becuase without taking chances, you can not gain....

Obama wants everyoine to be content. That is ideology.

You can not govern the US with ideology. It needs to be goverened based on the vision of the founders.

Which vision is that in particular. I happen to agree that contentment is a good thing, too bad it only comes from within. So is integrity which is sadly lacking in the US of late.

Would you agree that integrity is a good ideology to govern with?
Good stuff....thanks

No problem, maybe something can come out of this.

 

[Oldandtired]

Firegod,

No. DO not stop investing. But if you lose, you lose. You gain, you gain. No victims.
As for banks...FDIC insurance protects your cash. No reason to not deposit

Government regulations force companies to adhere to certain criteria that are difficult and expensive to meet. Such criteria are only necessary to appease special interest groups.
Governmewnt taxes on corporations are second highest in the world.
I say government intervention is more than a small part of the problem. I, myself, an owner of several service companies have to pay an inordinate amount of money on accounting so I can adhere to the complicated tax laws of our country...I must spend tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees to fight frivolous lawsuits that the government opens the door to.....discrminination law suits that have no basis, but the law allows them to go to court. And lets be real..I am going to counter sue some poor loser who needs to sue people so he can have some spending money?

And as for integrity as an ideology? Integrity is not an ideology...it is a mindset. It SHOULD be a given, but we the people have allowed integrity to slide as it pertains to our "leaders".

We copul;d not ask Obama for answers to his associations...or we were called racists....and conspiracists

We could not dig deep into Wright and find out if, in fact, Obama may think the same....or we were called racists.

We could not ask Obama what he meant by "spread the wealth" or we were right wing nut jobs....

But I digress....

We were not allowed to ensure integrity was present.

The best way to govern...in my eyes? Let the people fail and learn from their mistakes.

 

[Nonelitist]

Well at least you and I can have a discussion as it apparently a waste of time to even get sense out of LibocalypseNow.

Now that we have some of the BS out of the way lets get to it.
Your problem with Obama is that he has not changed Washington at all correct?

No...not at all. I did not expect him to change Washington. How can he? He does not have the power to. He does not control congeress, Sadly, mnay believed him. I did not.

My problem with Obama is his refusal to adhere to the premise of personal responsibility. It is what made this country great...and it is what made our people great.

Instead, he believes thatthe people need to be protected from each other. He believes the government needs to ensure that people do not make the wrong decisions....and he believes government needs to ensure that others dont capitalize on those bad decisions.

He called those that did not read credit card applications as victims.
He called those that lied on their mortgage applications as victims.
He called those that played the market hoping their money will make money for them as victims becuase they lost the gamble.
He called those that took teaser rates so they can minimize their mortagge poayments as victims.

I was taught that I am responsible for my own destiny. Never took a vartiable mortgage. Never ignoired the fine print. Never made an investment EXPECTING nothing but positive returns....

We, as a nation, learn from our mistakes. But if the government will not allow us to make mistakes, we will never learn...and never grow....

ANd why is growth impeded?

Becuase without taking chances, you can not gain....

Obama wants everyoine to be content. That is ideology.

You can not govern the US with ideology. It needs to be goverened based on the vision of the founders.

Your turn.

 

[FireGod]

Firegod,

No. DO not stop investing. But if you lose, you lose. You gain, you gain. No victims.
As for banks...FDIC insurance protects your cash. No reason to not deposit

Government regulations force companies to adhere to certain criteria that are difficult and expensive to meet. Such criteria are only necessary to appease special interest groups.
Governmewnt taxes on corporations are second highest in the world.
I say government intervention is more than a small part of the problem. I, myself, an owner of several service companies have to pay an inordinate amount of money on accounting so I can adhere to the complicated tax laws of our country...I must spend tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees to fight frivolous lawsuits that the government opens the door to.....discrminination law suits that have no basis, but the law allows them to go to court. And lets be real..I am going to counter sue some poor loser who needs to sue people so he can have some spending money?

And as for integrity as an ideology? Integrity is not an ideology...it is a mindset. It SHOULD be a given, but we the people have allowed integrity to slide as it pertains to our "leaders".

We copul;d not ask Obama for answers to his associations...or we were called racists....and conspiracists

We could not dig deep into Wright and find out if, in fact, Obama may think the same....or we were called racists.

We could not ask Obama what he meant by "spread the wealth" or we were right wing nut jobs....

But I digress....

We were not allowed to ensure integrity was present.

The best way to govern...in my eyes? Let the people fail and learn from their mistakes.

Actually I know very few who are able to invest in the stock market anymore and in fact are still hurting due to the crooks. If you can't loose it you have no business being in it. I now have older family members facing destitution. Mandatory 401k's again not the best answer in my book.

Banks again not a safe bet over $250,000 per bank and worse comes to worse only a portion is guaranteed. If and only if banks are separated out from the speculation markets then they may be safe havens for the big money.

Government in corporations yeah there is a lot of BS there. However it would not be needed if the corporations were able to have the integrity to treat the employees properly instead of just another number. As far as the taxation fine flat tax and that is done. Would you also like to shift payroll taxes to the worker? Probably a bad idea in the short term but the ones who are able to use their brains should be ok.

We as a nation (world maybe) have let slip the concept of integrity. Not just the politicians.

We were not allowed to vet for integrity goes all ways.

Lets not let the country fail while the people learn their respective lessons.

 

[beowolfe]

A lot of you see things that just plain aren't there.

 

[Darkwind]

Firegod,

No. DO not stop investing. But if you lose, you lose. You gain, you gain. No victims.
As for banks...FDIC insurance protects your cash. No reason to not deposit

Government regulations force companies to adhere to certain criteria that are difficult and expensive to meet. Such criteria are only necessary to appease special interest groups.
Governmewnt taxes on corporations are second highest in the world.
I say government intervention is more than a small part of the problem. I, myself, an owner of several service companies have to pay an inordinate amount of money on accounting so I can adhere to the complicated tax laws of our country...I must spend tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees to fight frivolous lawsuits that the government opens the door to.....discrminination law suits that have no basis, but the law allows them to go to court. And lets be real..I am going to counter sue some poor loser who needs to sue people so he can have some spending money?

And as for integrity as an ideology? Integrity is not an ideology...it is a mindset. It SHOULD be a given, but we the people have allowed integrity to slide as it pertains to our "leaders".

We copul;d not ask Obama for answers to his associations...or we were called racists....and conspiracists

We could not dig deep into Wright and find out if, in fact, Obama may think the same....or we were called racists.

We could not ask Obama what he meant by "spread the wealth" or we were right wing nut jobs....

But I digress....

We were not allowed to ensure integrity was present.

The best way to govern...in my eyes? Let the people fail and learn from their mistakes.

Actually I know very few who are able to invest in the stock market anymore and in fact are still hurting due to the crooks. If you can't loose it you have no business being in it. I now have older family members facing destitution. Mandatory 401k's again not the best answer in my book.

Banks again not a safe bet over $250,000 per bank and worse comes to worse only a portion is guaranteed. If and only if banks are separated out from the speculation markets then they may be safe havens for the big money.

Government in corporations yeah there is a lot of BS there. However it would not be needed if the corporations were able to have the integrity to treat the employees properly instead of just another number. As far as the taxation fine flat tax and that is done. Would you also like to shift payroll taxes to the worker? Probably a bad idea in the short term but the ones who are able to use their brains should be ok.

We as a nation (world maybe) have let slip the concept of integrity. Not just the politicians.

We were not allowed to vet for integrity goes all ways.

Lets not let the country fail while the people learn their respective lessons.

Let the country fail and the lesson will not be soon forgotten.

 

[FireGod]

Firegod,

No. DO not stop investing. But if you lose, you lose. You gain, you gain. No victims.
As for banks...FDIC insurance protects your cash. No reason to not deposit

Government regulations force companies to adhere to certain criteria that are difficult and expensive to meet. Such criteria are only necessary to appease special interest groups.
Governmewnt taxes on corporations are second highest in the world.
I say government intervention is more than a small part of the problem. I, myself, an owner of several service companies have to pay an inordinate amount of money on accounting so I can adhere to the complicated tax laws of our country...I must spend tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees to fight frivolous lawsuits that the government opens the door to.....discrminination law suits that have no basis, but the law allows them to go to court. And lets be real..I am going to counter sue some poor loser who needs to sue people so he can have some spending money?

And as for integrity as an ideology? Integrity is not an ideology...it is a mindset. It SHOULD be a given, but we the people have allowed integrity to slide as it pertains to our "leaders".

We copul;d not ask Obama for answers to his associations...or we were called racists....and conspiracists

We could not dig deep into Wright and find out if, in fact, Obama may think the same....or we were called racists.

We could not ask Obama what he meant by "spread the wealth" or we were right wing nut jobs....

But I digress....

We were not allowed to ensure integrity was present.

The best way to govern...in my eyes? Let the people fail and learn from their mistakes.

Actually I know very few who are able to invest in the stock market anymore and in fact are still hurting due to the crooks. If you can't loose it you have no business being in it. I now have older family members facing destitution. Mandatory 401k's again not the best answer in my book.

Banks again not a safe bet over $250,000 per bank and worse comes to worse only a portion is guaranteed. If and only if banks are separated out from the speculation markets then they may be safe havens for the big money.

Government in corporations yeah there is a lot of BS there. However it would not be needed if the corporations were able to have the integrity to treat the employees properly instead of just another number. As far as the taxation fine flat tax and that is done. Would you also like to shift payroll taxes to the worker? Probably a bad idea in the short term but the ones who are able to use their brains should be ok.

We as a nation (world maybe) have let slip the concept of integrity. Not just the politicians.

We were not allowed to vet for integrity goes all ways.

Lets not let the country fail while the people learn their respective lessons.

Let the country fail and the lesson will not be soon forgotten.

Now there is a great plan.

 

[Xenophon]

Actually I know very few who are able to invest in the stock market anymore and in fact are still hurting due to the crooks. If you can't loose it you have no business being in it. I now have older family members facing destitution. Mandatory 401k's again not the best answer in my book.

Banks again not a safe bet over $250,000 per bank and worse comes to worse only a portion is guaranteed. If and only if banks are separated out from the speculation markets then they may be safe havens for the big money.

Government in corporations yeah there is a lot of BS there. However it would not be needed if the corporations were able to have the integrity to treat the employees properly instead of just another number. As far as the taxation fine flat tax and that is done. Would you also like to shift payroll taxes to the worker? Probably a bad idea in the short term but the ones who are able to use their brains should be ok.

We as a nation (world maybe) have let slip the concept of integrity. Not just the politicians.

We were not allowed to vet for integrity goes all ways.

Lets not let the country fail while the people learn their respective lessons.

Let the country fail and the lesson will not be soon forgotten.

Now there is a great plan.

Barry seems to be trying it now.

 

[Samson]

Thrust into office on the veracity of hope, President Barack Obama is trying to get himself on the right side of a remarkably different national sentiment these days: anger.

REALLY?

I wasn't aware that everyone was drinkin' bubble-up and eatin' rainbow stew while Bush was President?

I thought everyone wanted to "Move On?" Presumably, they didn't feel any utopian warmth.

So, there is NO "remarkably different national sentiment these days."

Its the same angery sentiment: The Federal Government is a Bloated, Inneffective Beaurocracy, that costs an incredible amount.

What IS "remarkably different these days" is that ONE party has controlled our government, and has been unable to make the people happy: SHRINK FEDERAL BUDGETS!

 

[Polk]

It's all in Saul Alinsky's 'Rules for Radicals.' This President will create division where there is none. You must freeze,polarize,then destroy your opponent. A good Marxist Community Organizer must seek out anger and resentment. Then he or she must exploit and stoke the fires of resentment. This President does not fear anger. He will even create it if he has to. People who are angry and bitter tend to act more. Anger & division are good things for a Community Organizer. It really is a War against his own people with this President. He follows what Mao and Alinsky instructed with absolute obedience. He is fully embracing a War against his own people. In fact he relishes it. Most people don't understand this but this is true of this President. People need to read up on Saul Alinsky's 'Rules for Radicals' to better understand this President and current Democrats. Hopefully his strategies will fail and backfire on him. I guess we'll see though.

And you see none of the same from the conservative side of things?

If you see ANYTHING that relates to conservatism in Alinsky thinking then you have absolutely no idea of what conservativism really is.

A true conservative does not even think about his opponent. A true conservative does not look at "classes"...
A true conservative believes in creating his or her own destiny without the crutch of blaming others for his or her failure...

I am surprised you can even think about applying Alinsky to conservatism.

You are truly misguided if you do.

Why would it be misguided? Alinsky's primary work was about effective movement organization. That the ideas have a genesis on the left doesn't mean they're only applicable to left-wing groups. Even in his own time, his ideas were considered notable by conservatives. Buckley called him "very close to being an organizational genius".

Let's look at some of Alinsky's key ideas:
- The judgment of the ethics of means is dependent upon the political position of those sitting in judgment.

That's undoubtedly an idea held by both sides of the political spectrum. Look at how both sides kvetch about deficits when they're in the minority, but aren't really that concerned about them when in the majority.

- Any effective means is automatically judged by the opposition as being unethical.

Do I really need to explain this one?

- Goals must be phrased in general terms like "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity," "Of the Common Welfare," "Pursuit of Happiness," or "Bread and Peace."

"Axis of Evil". "Ownership society". "Evil empire". "Stay the course".
"Change". "It's The Economy, Stupid". "Yes We Can".

 

[Big Fitz]

No shit.

"Hope and Change" has become:

"Bait and Switch"