I live in California. California is starving the farmers out by shutting off their water because a little minnow is being sucked into the water pumps. The minimum wage and tax structure has driven garment and furniture manufacturers to Mexico and China. Cap and trade will make Californias' business environment untenable for other heavy manufacturing companies.
Obama's Cap n Trade Lie
- Thread starter Sinatra
- Start date
Cali is starving of thirst because there's NEVER been enough water there to support that many humans....period! The strain on the Colorado river is so bad it doesn't make it consistently to the Gulf of California much any more. If you really think minimum wage is the force behind out-sourcing...wow....
Oddball
Unobtanium Member
The Colorado River is mostly watering golf courses in Nevada and Arizona.
Most of the watershed for the Central Valley comes from the Sierra.
Most of the watershed for the Central Valley comes from the Sierra.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Which is recieving less water while the demand for water is rising.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Idiot. Cheney stuck his idiocy into the Klamath Water Dispute, and 30,000 King salmon died. And shut down the fishing for salmon from the Mexican border to nearly the Washington State border. It ain't a minnow, it is a fish that is vital to the fishing industry on the coast.
And there was never enough water for the development of the agriculture and industry in the manner that California developed it. Now there is even less water and more demand. Many changes will have to be made. And some hard choices. Someone will lose, no matter what the choices are. Just railing at those that make the choices without stating alternatives is a game for fools.
Uninformed or mis-informed may have been a better label for me. Idiot just sounds so distasteful. However, I will look into your claims.
What do you believe is the reason so many companies are moving to Mexico and China?
One manufacturer of car covers and dash covers told me that his overhead in Mexico is 1/10 of what it is in California.
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Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Bluntly, I think that should be free trade only between those nations with effective labor, safety, and environmental laws. Nations that offer no protection either for the worker, citizen, or environment, should see a tariff on their products.
I think the same of the people moving their products to Mexico and China for the cheap as I do of Haliburton moving their company to Dubai. Complete lack of loyalty to the people that created their wealth. And, at some point, unemployed American consumers will not be able to buy their products.
I think the same of the people moving their products to Mexico and China for the cheap as I do of Haliburton moving their company to Dubai. Complete lack of loyalty to the people that created their wealth. And, at some point, unemployed American consumers will not be able to buy their products.
Oddball
Unobtanium Member
IOW, you're not for free trade.
As though that wasn't already evident.
As though that wasn't already evident.
This from Wikipedia:
The Central Valley Project (CVP) is a United States Bureau of Reclamation federal water project in the U.S. state of California. The project supplies irrigation and municipal water, produces hydropower, and provides flood control and recreation on its many large reservoirs. Twenty dams and reservoirs, 11 hydroelectric power plants, and 500 miles (800 km) of canals and aqueducts make up the project, which is separated into eight divisions and ten distinct units.[1] Nine million acre feet of water are managed by the CVP, while 7 million acre feet are delivered annually.[2]
Erratic rainfall patterns in the Central Valley of California, a predominantly agricultural area, have always posed major problems for crops grown in the valley, which receives most of its rainfall from the north. A water storage and management project was needed to control water flows and distribute Northern California water evenly among the north and central parts of the state. The Central Valley Project was created in 1933 for this purpose. In the years following, water delivery to this area turned what was previously a semi-arid desert into productive farmland. California agriculture and related industries directly account for 7% of the gross state product for which the CVP supplied water for about half. In recent years, however, regulatory decisions based on the Endangered Species Act (ESA of 1973) have turned off much of the water to the Central Valley’s Westside, choosing the lives of fish over the livelihoods of humans. Unfortunately, unless the ESA is amended productive areas of farmland across the Central Valley will grow fallow, affecting both the economy and food production of the state as well as the nation.
Here’s a link to a point of view.
California's Water Woes Threaten the Entire Country's Food Supply - South Central Farmers
I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion and I haven’t seen anything yet to change mine.
The Central Valley Project (CVP) is a United States Bureau of Reclamation federal water project in the U.S. state of California. The project supplies irrigation and municipal water, produces hydropower, and provides flood control and recreation on its many large reservoirs. Twenty dams and reservoirs, 11 hydroelectric power plants, and 500 miles (800 km) of canals and aqueducts make up the project, which is separated into eight divisions and ten distinct units.[1] Nine million acre feet of water are managed by the CVP, while 7 million acre feet are delivered annually.[2]
Erratic rainfall patterns in the Central Valley of California, a predominantly agricultural area, have always posed major problems for crops grown in the valley, which receives most of its rainfall from the north. A water storage and management project was needed to control water flows and distribute Northern California water evenly among the north and central parts of the state. The Central Valley Project was created in 1933 for this purpose. In the years following, water delivery to this area turned what was previously a semi-arid desert into productive farmland. California agriculture and related industries directly account for 7% of the gross state product for which the CVP supplied water for about half. In recent years, however, regulatory decisions based on the Endangered Species Act (ESA of 1973) have turned off much of the water to the Central Valley’s Westside, choosing the lives of fish over the livelihoods of humans. Unfortunately, unless the ESA is amended productive areas of farmland across the Central Valley will grow fallow, affecting both the economy and food production of the state as well as the nation.
Here’s a link to a point of view.
California's Water Woes Threaten the Entire Country's Food Supply - South Central Farmers
I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion and I haven’t seen anything yet to change mine.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
The fish are also food. And once they are gone, they are gone for good. You cannot put a fish run on 'fallow', as you can farmland. As stated before, there simply is not enough water for all. And there will be less in the future.
This land was desert before the irrigation systems were in place. It will return to desert as the systems have less water to store. It is not a nice fact, but a fact none the less. Many of the farmers will have to start looking at how other nations utilize the desert, such as Isreal. The present farming methods simply will not work in the future.
This land was desert before the irrigation systems were in place. It will return to desert as the systems have less water to store. It is not a nice fact, but a fact none the less. Many of the farmers will have to start looking at how other nations utilize the desert, such as Isreal. The present farming methods simply will not work in the future.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
By the way, that article summed up the situation very well. There has to be a change in the way that what water they have is used.
I was assuming Southern Cali, you are assuming central Cali....and NO the majority of the water from the Colorado doesn't go to golf courses, I'm sure a lot does, but not the majority, lol.
Oddball
Unobtanium Member
The Central Valley is where they're having the majority of their water issues right now. That water comes from the Sierra.
I heard that he is stating that he has done more in the last 8 months to curb Co2 emmisions, the only thing I have seen him do is trash the economy, less people working, means people are driving less. What B.S, this guy is no leader of the free world, now he wants to study Afganistan when the general on the ground is stating that he needs 40 thousand more troops to win this war or risk losing it. Now, he is not only a doctor with health care reform, but a general too. Ridiculous!!!! Anyone regretting their vote????
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The consequences of shutting off the water will drive food prices higher.
Agriculture
The Central Valley is one of the world's most productive agricultural regions. On less than 1 percent of the total farmland in the United States, the Central Valley produces 8 percent of the nationÂ’s agricultural output by value: 17 billion USD in 2002. Its agricultural productivity relies on irrigation from both surface water diversions and groundwater pumping from wells. About one-sixth of the irrigated land in the U.S. is in the Central Valley.[15]
Virtually all non-tropical crops are grown in the Central Valley, which is the primary source for a number of food products throughout the United States, including tomatoes, almonds,[16][17] grapes, cotton, apricots, and asparagus.
Four of the top five counties in agricultural sales in the U.S. are in the Central Valley (2002 Data). They are Fresno County (#1 with $2.759 billion in sales), Tulare County (#2 with $2.338 billion), Kern County (#4 with $2.058), and Merced County (#5 with $2.058 billion).
Another thing to consider is the loss of orchards which would take many years to replace.
And, you propose what? I can hardly wait to hear your response.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Why should I propose anything? The people that are dealing with the problem have stated the choices well. I live in Oregon, and it is the people in California that must deal with the change in water supplies and demand.
I see, the water just flows to the ocean, and screw the crops, farmer, and workers. Yup that's the way it's done in California. That's what happens when you let a bunch of political environuts get a little power. That's why I'm usually against everything you stand for Old Rocks.
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