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It doesn't appear that he's hiding something? really? Then why is everything hidden? You are much smarter than denying this. We do not know how the man was able to afford his education, We do not know where all he may have traveled as a student and on what passport, We don't have a clue even if his parents were legally married. If Bush had any of these secrets the MSM would have torn him apart. Hell they even tried to get a secretary to try to remember one paper (Out of 10,000 or better) she had typed 40 years earlier. But this guy who has everything sealed has nothing to hide? Nothing? I can't believe that.
Do I have nothing for contempt for this level of brainwashedness and ignorance? Abso-fucking-lutely. And there are some otherwise intelligent people who've been snookered by the cottage industry that is birferdom, too. A sucker's born every minute and they know how to reel 'em in.
I am beginning to suspect that this is not a cottage industry at all. I think, at the core of the birther rhetoric (i.e. World Net Daily and various members of the far-far right pundatry - not idiots like Orly Taitz) is a well funded smear campaign that is being bankrolled by some serious money simply to try and cast doubt's on Obama and sway the 2012 election.
Legally, they know it's a non-starter, and they aren't interested in winning a legal battle. They just want to perpetuate the appearance of a controversy.
While I realize this sounds a little conspiratorial, it has happened before and the financier was Richard Mellon Sciafe.
Arkansas Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One of Scaife's lackeys from the Arkansas Project was Joseph Farrah, who went on to start World Net Daily, which is one of the leading sources of birther nonsense.
The money to pay the hard core comes from somewhere. But every tinfoil hat brigade also has profiteers.
Do you honestly think every two bit website with the latest "revelation" or hawking birfer t-shirts and bumper stickers is part of one grand conspiracy? Hell no.
One of the leading WND theorists on the NWO crap a few years back was a guy that's fairly local. He drives a cab part time and dabbles in other sources of revenue nobody wants to think much about.
After he tried to set up an internet porn business and it failed (how can you be dumb enough to fail at internet porn?) he started writing conspiracy pamphlets and hawking them online from his living room.
Books and blogging gigs followed, and he was revered in tinfoil hatland for his 15 minutes. Laughing all the way to the bank.
Nope, there may be somebody pouring cash into it - probably is, actually - but once it goes viral and you get the vast array of "theories" out there, you know at least part of it is a bunch of Vinces playing con man.
After all, who's an easier mark than a tinfoil hatter?
Ame®icano;3241842 said:All this is going on my nerves. Yes, he is. No, he's not. Neither side is giving up.
Suddenly, out of nowhere, Hawaii Governor said he's going to prove Obama is born there. Now he can't, so everyone has to take his word for it.
Hawaii won't release Obama birth info
HONOLULU -- Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it's against state law to release private documents, his office said Friday.
No question asked, it's against the state law.
State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he can't disclose an individual's birth documentation without a person's consent.
Why Obama doesn't give his consent and finish with this once for all. Longer he waits, more questions will be asked, and question is: What is he hiding?
But it cannot be denied that it does appear he is hiding something. We simply have no real clue as to what it is. Are you not in the least curious?
What do you mean "it cannot be denied"? I deny it.
Everything that's relevant has been put out there. When irrational people demand irrelevant information in an attempt to harass and annoy it's abuse of process. Why do you think the birfer lawyers keep getting sanctioned over...and over...and over again?
If instead of demanding Obama prove a negative over questions and insinuations that are completely irrelevant to his performance or position, y'all had actual evidence of a cover up that actually affects his eligibility or job performance....different story.
But all the birfers have are innuendos and vague leading questions from bloggers with money to rake in and an ax to grind. That's not evidence, it's trash.
It doesn't appear that he's hiding something? really? Then why is everything hidden? You are much smarter than denying this. We do not know how the man was able to afford his education, We do not know where all he may have traveled as a student and on what passport, We don't have a clue even if his parents were legally married. If Bush had any of these secrets the MSM would have torn him apart. Hell they even tried to get a secretary to try to remember one paper (Out of 10,000 or better) she had typed 40 years earlier. But this guy who has everything sealed has nothing to hide? Nothing? I can't believe that.
The issue is the Constitutional requirement that the POTUS be born in the USA. The burdon of proof is on Obama not us. Why is he being so coy about it? Embarassment? We already know his father was an alcoholic bigamist and his mother was a ditzy left wing flower girl. What's left to hide?
The only "burden" Obama had was to prove eligibility in the '08 election, which he did as verified by the State of Hawaii in accordance with federal election law.
That's the end of the debate, legally speaking. Birthers don't understand that they don't get to impose additional legal burdens simply because they aren't personally satisfied. I don't blame Obama for not capitulating to the demands of the inherently unreasonable.
You guys are more than welcome to keep talking about it. It's not going to change a damn thing.
Just ask Inmate Terry Lakin, who is now sitting in the Disciplinary Barracks in Leavenworth for refusing to deploy unless Obama produced a Birth Certificate.
The Army wouldn't even allow him to introduce Obama's eligibility in his defense as it was seen as being completely unrelated to the fact that he dis-obeyed lawful orders.
There is a moral here: just because you guys are insistent that you are right does not make it so. You can scream about the way things "should be" until the cows come home. It won't change the inevitable truth.
The burdon of proof is on Obama to prove that the photo-copy he produced in '08 is genuine. The governor of Hawaii is a die-hard Obama supporter and said he was present when the savior was born. It was a lie and now the governor can't find documentation that Obama was born in the USA. The whole thing is unravling and the left wing media is ignoring it.
I am beginning to suspect that this is not a cottage industry at all. I think, at the core of the birther rhetoric (i.e. World Net Daily and various members of the far-far right pundatry - not idiots like Orly Taitz) is a well funded smear campaign that is being bankrolled by some serious money simply to try and cast doubt's on Obama and sway the 2012 election.
Legally, they know it's a non-starter, and they aren't interested in winning a legal battle. They just want to perpetuate the appearance of a controversy.
While I realize this sounds a little conspiratorial, it has happened before and the financier was Richard Mellon Sciafe.
Arkansas Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One of Scaife's lackeys from the Arkansas Project was Joseph Farrah, who went on to start World Net Daily, which is one of the leading sources of birther nonsense.
The money to pay the hard core comes from somewhere. But every tinfoil hat brigade also has profiteers.
Do you honestly think every two bit website with the latest "revelation" or hawking birfer t-shirts and bumper stickers is part of one grand conspiracy? Hell no.
One of the leading WND theorists on the NWO crap a few years back was a guy that's fairly local. He drives a cab part time and dabbles in other sources of revenue nobody wants to think much about.
After he tried to set up an internet porn business and it failed (how can you be dumb enough to fail at internet porn?) he started writing conspiracy pamphlets and hawking them online from his living room.
Books and blogging gigs followed, and he was revered in tinfoil hatland for his 15 minutes. Laughing all the way to the bank.
Nope, there may be somebody pouring cash into it - probably is, actually - but once it goes viral and you get the vast array of "theories" out there, you know at least part of it is a bunch of Vinces playing con man.
After all, who's an easier mark than a tinfoil hatter?
That might be some of it, I just find it curious that the same names of the same right wing operatives keep showing up in these matters.
What do you mean "it cannot be denied"? I deny it.
Everything that's relevant has been put out there. When irrational people demand irrelevant information in an attempt to harass and annoy it's abuse of process. Why do you think the birfer lawyers keep getting sanctioned over...and over...and over again?
If instead of demanding Obama prove a negative over questions and insinuations that are completely irrelevant to his performance or position, y'all had actual evidence of a cover up that actually affects his eligibility or job performance....different story.
But all the birfers have are innuendos and vague leading questions from bloggers with money to rake in and an ax to grind. That's not evidence, it's trash.
It doesn't appear that he's hiding something? really? Then why is everything hidden? You are much smarter than denying this. We do not know how the man was able to afford his education, We do not know where all he may have traveled as a student and on what passport, We don't have a clue even if his parents were legally married. If Bush had any of these secrets the MSM would have torn him apart. Hell they even tried to get a secretary to try to remember one paper (Out of 10,000 or better) she had typed 40 years earlier. But this guy who has everything sealed has nothing to hide? Nothing? I can't believe that.
Why don't I care? Because of all that, only one thing is even remotely relevant: Whether he ever traveled on a foreign passport, which was a "breaking news flash" from WND - that oh so credible source. But even if true that isn't an indication of ineligibility, it merely means he is or was a dual citizen. Which is not a disqualification under any law we have in existence.
Why should I care if his parents were married? What does it matter to me if he took student loans, received grants, or got scholarships - even as a dual citizen? What do I care what his grades were? I know the issues and what the actual law surrounding eligibility is so I know none of it matters, that's why I don't particularly care.
But right there, you just listed yourself several items you are going to demand he produce whether he gives up a "long form" birth certificate or not. Which proves my point. You'll move the goal posts and want his college records, his and his family's financial records, proof of negatives that cannot be given......and the BC doesn't actually mean one darn thing as far as being a resolution. But you demand it anyway. Why?
I'm not the guy's biggest fan, but this stuff is completely pointless.
What do you mean "it cannot be denied"? I deny it.
Everything that's relevant has been put out there. When irrational people demand irrelevant information in an attempt to harass and annoy it's abuse of process. Why do you think the birfer lawyers keep getting sanctioned over...and over...and over again?
If instead of demanding Obama prove a negative over questions and insinuations that are completely irrelevant to his performance or position, y'all had actual evidence of a cover up that actually affects his eligibility or job performance....different story.
But all the birfers have are innuendos and vague leading questions from bloggers with money to rake in and an ax to grind. That's not evidence, it's trash.
It doesn't appear that he's hiding something? really? Then why is everything hidden? You are much smarter than denying this. We do not know how the man was able to afford his education, We do not know where all he may have traveled as a student and on what passport, We don't have a clue even if his parents were legally married. If Bush had any of these secrets the MSM would have torn him apart. Hell they even tried to get a secretary to try to remember one paper (Out of 10,000 or better) she had typed 40 years earlier. But this guy who has everything sealed has nothing to hide? Nothing? I can't believe that.
Why don't I care? Because of all that, only one thing is even remotely relevant: Whether he ever traveled on a foreign passport, which was a "breaking news flash" from WND - that oh so credible source. But even if true that isn't an indication of ineligibility, it merely means he is or was a dual citizen. Which is not a disqualification under any law we have in existence.
Why should I care if his parents were married? What does it matter to me if he took student loans, received grants, or got scholarships - even as a dual citizen? What do I care what his grades were? I know the issues and what the actual law surrounding eligibility is so I know none of it matters, that's why I don't particularly care.
But right there, you just listed yourself several items you are going to demand he produce whether he gives up a "long form" birth certificate or not. Which proves my point. You'll move the goal posts and want his college records, his and his family's financial records, proof of negatives that cannot be given......and the BC doesn't actually mean one darn thing as far as being a resolution. But you demand it anyway. Why?
I'm not the guy's biggest fan, but this stuff is completely pointless.
*I actually hope Obama does turn over his BC to the national archives as his last official act as President. It would be a nice "F.U." to the birthers.
If Obama released a copy of his "long form Birth Certificate" on the internet and then put it on display at that National Archives* for everyone to see at 2 PM today.
At 2:05 PM the birthers would be screaming "forgery"!
As we used to say in the Ozarks: don't get in a pissing match with a skunk.
*I actually hope Obama does turn over his BC to the national archives as his last official act as President. It would be a nice "F.U." to the birthers.
*I actually hope Obama does turn over his BC to the national archives as his last official act as President. It would be a nice "F.U." to the birthers.
Is this the New New Civility of Discourse?
*I actually hope Obama does turn over his BC to the national archives as his last official act as President. It would be a nice "F.U." to the birthers.
Is this the New New Civility of Discourse?
*I actually hope Obama does turn over his BC to the national archives as his last official act as President. It would be a nice "F.U." to the birthers.
Is this the New New Civility of Discourse?
Yes. Only because the stupid birthers deserve neither civility or rational discourse.
We don't worry about offending Klansmen when we discuss their bigoted viewpoints.
Yes. Only because the stupid birthers deserve neither civility or rational discourse.
We don't worry about offending Klansmen when we discuss their bigoted viewpoints.
Interesting theory:
The real issue regarding Obama's birth certificate is not his birth place, but his adopted name. In Hawaii, birth certificates are amended if a child is adopted and has a change of name. Obama's legal name may actually be Barry Soetero.
heh.
The fact that Obama was adopted by Indonesian Lolo Soetoro in the 1970s, and his name was legally changed to Barry Soetoro at that time, is most likely the reason he is spending millions of dollars to hide his birth certificate. He never filed the papers to change his name back to Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., so any birth certificate produced by the state of Hawaii would list him as Barry Soetoro.
Its easy to see why he never wants this to come to light. Aside from the legal ramifications of this, how would the American people feel about Obama lying to them about his NAME all this time? And if he lied about something as simple as that, what else has he lied about? It would open a whole host of new questions for most people about this man of deliberate mystery.
(snip)
I honestly and truly believe this solves the entire mystery.
It is seriously this straightforward.
* Obama was indeed born in Hawaii in 1961
* Obama was indeed adopted by Lolo Soetoro in the 1970s
* Obamas name was indeed changed to Barry Soetoro in the 1970s
* Obamas birth certificate was altered per Hawaiian law to reflect his new name in the 1970s
* Obama never changed his name back to Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. most likely because he used Barry Soetoro on all of his student aid applications for college, and probably received foreign student grants and admissions assistance playing off his years living in Indonesia
* All the records, transcripts, documents, and paperwork Obama continues to hide from the public is all hidden because it lists his name as Barry Soetoro on all of it.
* Obama will not allow his birth certificate to be released because it lists the wrong name on it: Barry Soetoro
It is as simple as this, folks....
HAWAII GROUND REPORT: Could Hawaiian Governor Neil Abercrombie not be as incompetent and foolish as he appears, but orchestrating a deliberate birth certificate recovery dead end to cover his own papakole? UPDATED: Mystery solved! Reason Obama will n
No, the moronic birthers are the issue. Btw, birthers have been rejected so often, nobody but extremist, rightwing, Obama haters would even attempt to address it anymore.
Just so you understand this ya extremist, rightwing, Obama hater.
Sub-par intellect response.. as usual.
Way to go!
No, the moronic birthers are the issue. Btw, birthers have been rejected so often, nobody but extremist, rightwing, Obama haters would even attempt to address it anymore.
Just so you understand this ya extremist, rightwing, Obama hater.
Sub-par intellect response.. as usual.
Way to go!
Aww gee, that was rough, wasn't it? Coming from you, it means so little.
Yes. Only because the stupid birthers deserve neither civility or rational discourse.
We don't worry about offending Klansmen when we discuss their bigoted viewpoints.
Thank you for unintentionally proving the hypocrisy of the Left crying for this new Civility.
It's a sham behind which you all hide in order to lob your vile insults.
Wondering what Obama is hiding is not Racism, but you'll use that accusation to keep the truth from being known.
The desperation is very telling.
