Obama's Anti-Speciesists In Charge

[Uncensored2008]

Red meat is even better left on the animal. Just advising.

Yeah, but it seems kinda cruel to go bite a chunk off a cow's leg and leave it limping off....

And you don't care about factory farms or the environment. You're part of the problem.

I bet you also own a gun and the only thing you've ever shot is your foot.

I'll bet you have an iPhone, iPad, and iMac.

Moron.

 

[ima]

Who cares that we are "kings of the jungle"???

If they were self-aware, cows would.

But cows aren't sentient, so they don't.

That is not justification to bestow suffering on animals.

No one wants animals to suffer - no one.

We want them killed as humanely as possible

If you're really concerned, buy Kosher beef - then you can be assured the animal was slaughtered in accordance to Jewish law, which is very careful to ensure the animal doesn't suffer.

Please tell me how this works, because I'm just not getting it. By the way, you bragging about how you are paying a corporation to confine and kill an animal in what was probably a cruel and inhumane way, is really pathetic. Am I supposed to be impressed that you handed over five dollars to someone? Go kill it yourself, then maybe you can brag. As it is, your a ******* coward.

I buy gas at a gas station, Guess that makes me a coward, since I don't go pump crude oil from the ground and refine in myself...

Dude, you honestly are mentally ill; you DO grasp that, don't you?

Ya, slitting an animals throat and letting it bleed to death is very humane. Meat eaters don't care about their health or their environment, that's why I said before the vegetarians are simply better people for the way they live.

 

[newpolitics]

Who cares that we are "kings of the jungle"???

If they were self-aware, cows would.

But cows aren't sentient, so they don't.

That is not justification to bestow suffering on animals.

No one wants animals to suffer - no one.

We want them killed as humanely as possible

If you're really concerned, buy Kosher beef - then you can be assured the animal was slaughtered in accordance to Jewish law, which is very careful to ensure the animal doesn't suffer.

Please tell me how this works, because I'm just not getting it. By the way, you bragging about how you are paying a corporation to confine and kill an animal in what was probably a cruel and inhumane way, is really pathetic. Am I supposed to be impressed that you handed over five dollars to someone? Go kill it yourself, then maybe you can brag. As it is, your a ******* coward.

I buy gas at a gas station, Guess that makes me a coward, since I don't go pump crude oil from the ground and refine in myself...

Dude, you honestly are mentally ill; you DO grasp that, don't you?

No. It is you who are utterly delusional. You are confusing sentience with the ability to reason. All animals are sentient. Perhaps not all can reason. Reasoning is not required to feel pain. They are completely different parts of the brain. How are you even stupid to be arguing that animals don't feel pain and joy? Odd that you would question my mental health, when it is clear that your senses, memory, and cognition fail you. Ever seem a dog in pain? Ever seen one happy? What do you call that- an act? Animals need pain and pleasure as natural incentives to negotiate their environment. From this, they learn to stay away from things that cause pain, and are attracted to those that cause pleasure, such as sex and food. Without these natural interests, no animal would survive. That you would question the sentience of animals is laughable from nearly all angles. By your own pitiful logic, babies are not sentient. Cows are shown to smarter than most 3 three year old. Should we start eating babies? Your standards would dictate that we should... Might want to revise that.

 

[newpolitics]

If everyone became a vegan and with droughts and bad growing conditions, we'd have to eat meat anyways. Your assumptions about that are off.

And even if there's a side of me that feels bad for the factory conditions, etc.....

Best I'd do is speak out against the way animals are killed.

But I'd still eat them, and I'd still enjoy it.

I dont believe in Religion, etc. but to me there's something advantageous about being the most dominant species on the planet and I don't feel bad for the powers bestowed upon us over the other carnivores or omnivores - and the other carnivores don't feel bad either for their kills.

A simple cost benefit analysis, if one is thinking beyond himself, would unequivocally arrive at veganism being the better option.

Right, if one is thinking beyond himself you're right.

I'm not sure that's necessary for diet, particularly, in the scheme of things though. Enjoy life while it lasts, bro. I know that people die in the ghetto every day and its sometimes bothersome that people devote their lives to advocating for animals before their own species, when I doubt if any other animal had the ability to reason they'd do the same.

I'd kill 10 thousand animals to save one single human. I love animals, but I love and am devoted to and am a member of the human race. My loyalty resides with humans over all else.

What I don't understand, Is you write as if humans are threatened somehow by animals, as if a defensive posture needs to be taken. There needs to be no trade off between caring for humans and animals, especially when it comes to veganism. You are simply omitting items from your diet. This would in no way interfere with any philanthropic interests you might have, so the two activities are not mutually exclusive. I myself contribute to two human charities a month, because I care about all sentient beings, but I simply don't draw a line between humans and animals. also, there is no human suffering that rivals that of animals being systemically processed in death camps, essentially, which are completely caused, and therefore remedied by consumer choice. There is no need to donate to charities to fix factory farming. The problem/cause itself is the buying of animal products themselves. therefore, the only solution lies in boycott, which in practical terms means simply substituting certain food goods for others. There is literally no trade off here, aside from the pain of change, which ill grant. It's not easy at first. The same cause can not be said for any human suffering, which is often much more complicated (politics, economics, geography, race relations, sexism,etc...) and can not usually be fixed by avoiding the purchase of certain items. Therefore, the solution for animal suffering is categorically simpler and non-exclusive to human welfare efforts, as I already stated.

You are not obligated to think beyond yourself, but you could. Why not at least stop buying from factory farms? Go organic? Try to do meatless Mondays? Simply lessen your animal product intake. Anything helps.

 

[emilynghiem]

Would you get off politics PC? How indoctrinated are you? There is no evidence for god, and until you produce some, there is no justification for belief, or taking anything the bible says as gospel. Therefore, you are left to justify speciesism apart from god, which you can't rationally do. In other words, your position is entirely irrational. Faith is not evidence, and I find it sad that you would justify the suffering of billions if animals through your god. You are pathetic.

Dear newpolitics: though I agree with you PC makes a lot of arguments without explaining all the reasoning behind it, I actually agree with her on most conclusions after I have worked through all the analysis to get there. I support what she is ultimately trying to defend, while like you I much prefer people explain and offer this using reason and not what comes across to us as the same old rhetoric. She is equally tired of hearing the same.
You are right, we need to be more specific in our approach or we will keep going nowhere.

To focus on reason and reaching conclusions by proveable points,
can we agree
* re: faith is not evidence
and also how we interpret evidence is equally faithbased
If you believe in creation or evolution, you will tend to interpret data as supporting that
We are human and very few of us can drop our biases completely to be perfectly objective.
Mostly we can recognize we have a bias, and try to work around that, knowing we have it.

* creation or evolution cannot be proven absolutely
because we could always interpret the information differently

Also I would like to add:
* we would have more luck proving spiritual healing works as part of natural laws and science. So if we focused there, we might actually get somewhere in terms of explaining why people believe in God, why some laws are so universal and work through forgiveness and love, that it becomes personal. Even if you don't ever think in terms of a personified God and Jesus, just understanding that universal truth and justice does apply to all people, whether religious or secular, may give you greater appreciation of why people insist and push so hard to share and defend their views instead of discounting as invalid or false.

As we find common points to agree on, then all the defensiveness and rhetoric back and forth will be less and less, or may not be necessary at all.

 

[emilynghiem]

Vegetarians are better people than meat eaters, it's that simple.

I don't agree to this, but I think people that are willing to actually discover how their animal products get to shelf, are unequivocally vastly more mature than those that wish to remain willfully ignorant. People that are willing to forgo the pleasure of meat, dairy, and eggs to lessen the demand for these products, therefore lessening how many are supplied and lessening the number of animals that need to suffer under these conditions, are more compassionate, empathetic, and more moral. Those that would deny even animal sentience based on religious scriptures are the scum of the earth.

Vegetarians have respect for their own bodies and for their environment, unlike that neanderthal GT, who thinks he's the king of the jungle, when in reality, he probably wouldn't last one ******* night in a jungle.
Meat eaters have meat constantly rotting in their gut and have stinkier shit.

??? really Ima?
the disrespect and "inequality of persons" you just expressed in these two msgs
reflects more on you than on them.

it is the person doing the judging who is judged by those words.

what I have found, Ima, is that ignorance and disrespect is relative.
these people may in fact be selfish and ignorance IN ONE AREA
but lo and behold, there may be another area where they are reaching out and sharing
knowledge, while thinking you are the scum of the earth for not liberating others as they are!

You may think I am kidding, that there is no way someone could have knowledge in another area they are focused on sharing that could save lives, only the knowledge you have???

There are people who have saved lives and whole communities with knowledge of:
* independent currency which not everyone knows is legal
* spiritual healing which can even cure schizophrenia, cancer and other diseases
instead of letting people die for lack of resources and help
* mediation and therapy to break the cycle of crime and poverty that otherwise wastes
lives and resources which, like going vegetarian, would also completely change the economy
etc.

So there are lots of other areas where if people had "equal knowledge" they would not be killing off society and the economy with all the nonsense going on that could be prevented!

I don't mean to be negative to you, Ima, I love that you care so much!
Just know that other people DO CARE too, just about different areas, and just as passionately!
So we are equal in our potential, and no need to put others down, okay?

Take care and keep up the good work doing educational outreach. You mean well, and I know that, but others may not see it if you sound negative. Just tone down the judgmental rejection, and you will attract more people's attention and open more doors and ears to listen, and get what you are really saying.

http://www.houstonprogressive.org/oceansong.html

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[newpolitics]

Btw, you think I didn't used to shovel meat, dairy, and eggs in my mouth? I've been vegan for only two years. Before that, I loved all animal products. Technically, I still do, i just don't eat it anymore. I know how pleasurable it is, and I am not judging anyone for eating it, so get your preconceptions of vegans out of your head. I will however, judge those who choose to remain ignorant to the methods of factory farming, animal sentience, or who refuse to think critically about their diet. Eating meat is not necessary for survival anymore. We have plenty of other foods we can subsist on. This determines morality for me: necessity. If I were trapped in the wild, as a vegan, I would kill and eat an animal to survive. In modern civilization, I can walk to a supermarket that has a plethora of vegetables, fruit, seeds, beans, and really excellent vegan products that no longer make it necessary to kill animals. As I said, just because we used to, does not mean we should continue to. Considering how inhumane the entire process of factory farming is, it should be avoided if possible and subtitled for other, plant-based options. Please, put aside the immature anger towards a vegan, and try to have a rational debate. If you can not rationally justify your diet, just admit it. Why do you need to? Because of the suffering involved, in my opinion.

vegetarians are ok.

vegans are creepy.

Why? That's completely ridiculous. What's with the ad hominem? Try addressing the actual arguments and the evidence that causes people to turn vegan. As a vegan, I have an issue with how SOME vegans talk to omnivores, since I don't think it helps the cause and only creates enemies and a bad public image for vegans which presents a real problem for us, given that we are trying to get the same people to go vegan, but many are really cool. This aside, did you ever consider asking why vegans are so mad? Ill tell you, because I used to be the same way: willful ignorance. Those who don't want to know how their animal products get to shelf, yet unknowingly condemn animals to suffering they wouldn't be okay with if only they found out. Willful ignorance aside, it is the simultaneous causation of massive suffering for billions of sentient being with total indifference to it, just because they are animals, whose interests are considered less than humans, and because they taste good. It's pretty pathetic.

All this is just an aside, vegans being judged as creepy is just another excuse to ignore the plight of the farm animals we condemn with our dollar.

 

[ima]

I don't agree to this, but I think people that are willing to actually discover how their animal products get to shelf, are unequivocally vastly more mature than those that wish to remain willfully ignorant. People that are willing to forgo the pleasure of meat, dairy, and eggs to lessen the demand for these products, therefore lessening how many are supplied and lessening the number of animals that need to suffer under these conditions, are more compassionate, empathetic, and more moral. Those that would deny even animal sentience based on religious scriptures are the scum of the earth.

Vegetarians have respect for their own bodies and for their environment, unlike that neanderthal GT, who thinks he's the king of the jungle, when in reality, he probably wouldn't last one ******* night in a jungle.
Meat eaters have meat constantly rotting in their gut and have stinkier shit.

??? really Ima?
the disrespect and "inequality of persons" you just expressed in these two msgs
reflects more on you than on them.

it is the person doing the judging who is judged by those words.

what I have found, Ima, is that ignorance and disrespect is relative.
these people may in fact be selfish and ignorance IN ONE AREA
but lo and behold, there may be another area where they are reaching out and sharing
knowledge, while thinking you are the scum of the earth for not liberating others as they are!

You may think I am kidding, that there is no way someone could have knowledge in another area they are focused on sharing that could save lives, only the knowledge you have???

There are people who have saved lives and whole communities with knowledge of:
* independent currency which not everyone knows is legal
* spiritual healing which can even cure schizophrenia, cancer and other diseases
instead of letting people die for lack of resources and help
* mediation and therapy to break the cycle of crime and poverty that otherwise wastes
lives and resources which, like going vegetarian, would also completely change the economy
etc.

So there are lots of other areas where if people had "equal knowledge" they would not be killing off society and the economy with all the nonsense going on that could be prevented!

I don't mean to be negative to you, Ima, I love that you care so much!
Just know that other people DO CARE too, just about different areas, and just as passionately!
So we are equal in our potential, and no need to put others down, okay?

Take care and keep up the good work doing educational outreach. You mean well, and I know that, but others may not see it if you sound negative. Just tone down the judgmental rejection, and you will attract more people's attention and open more doors and ears to listen, and get what you are really saying.

http://www.houstonprogressive.org

Yours truly,
Emily

Wow! That sure is a lot of fart smoke! Uncensed and GT are in fact, 2 ignoramouses (and are probably overweight), because red meat is bad for the heart among other things... like the environment and starving people in the world. Which all make meat eaters part of the problem, not the solution. to some of the world's biggest problems. So yes, meat eaters are less aware of themselves and their surroundings. I mean, just look at those 2 fools talk.

 

[ima]

??? really Ima?
the disrespect and "inequality of persons" you just expressed in these two msgs
reflects more on you than on them.

it is the person doing the judging who is judged by those words.

what I have found, Ima, is that ignorance and disrespect is relative.
these people may in fact be selfish and ignorance IN ONE AREA
but lo and behold, there may be another area where they are reaching out and sharing
knowledge, while thinking you are the scum of the earth for not liberating others as they are!

You may think I am kidding, that there is no way someone could have knowledge in another area they are focused on sharing that could save lives, only the knowledge you have???

There are people who have saved lives and whole communities with knowledge of:
* independent currency which not everyone knows is legal
* spiritual healing which can even cure schizophrenia, cancer and other diseases
instead of letting people die for lack of resources and help
* mediation and therapy to break the cycle of crime and poverty that otherwise wastes
lives and resources which, like going vegetarian, would also completely change the economy
etc.

So there are lots of other areas where if people had "equal knowledge" they would not be killing off society and the economy with all the nonsense going on that could be prevented!

I don't mean to be negative to you, Ima, I love that you care so much!
Just know that other people DO CARE too, just about different areas, and just as passionately!
So we are equal in our potential, and no need to put others down, okay?

Take care and keep up the good work doing educational outreach. You mean well, and I know that, but others may not see it if you sound negative. Just tone down the judgmental rejection, and you will attract more people's attention and open more doors and ears to listen, and get what you are really saying.

http://www.houstonprogressive.org

Yours truly,
Emily

Wow! That sure is a lot of fart smoke! Uncensed and GT are in fact, 2 ignoramouses (and are probably overweight), because red meat is bad for the heart among other things... like the environment and starving people in the world. Which all make meat eaters part of the problem, not the solution. to some of the world's biggest problems. So yes, meat eaters are less aware of themselves and their surroundings. I mean, just look at those 2 fools talk.

You meant to say GT has 8 pack abs and is pretty chizzeled.

Meat is excellent protein, protein is food for the muscles. The bigger the muscles grow, the more calories they burn. Red meat is ok in moderation, and in leaner cuts.

I personal train people and set them up on meal plans - what do you do? I'm a chizzeled accountant. We are rare, I know.

My pic is in my profile.

A lot of people on this board know me. Don't try to front like you do, because it just makes you look like a touch hole.

If you are muscle bound, then you must be overweight. Meat is bad for you, bad for the environment, and bad for starving people. But you're way too ignorant to care.

 

[ima]

I'm just saying, if you're going to try to judge others by their physique, I've posted mine so put up or shut up.

Nobody had to get uncordial in here but you had to come along looking down your nose at people like a jackass.

I'm judging you because I'm better than you are, I don't eat meat=don't abuse animals=don't support factory farms=don't support massive pollution from the animals because there are so many=I'm healthier=have less chance of getting a whole host of medical problems related to meat=don't take food away from starving people to feed my meat sources=I'm a better human being than you are. See how simple that is?

 

[ima]

I'm just saying, if you're going to try to judge others by their physique, I've posted mine so put up or shut up.

Nobody had to get uncordial in here but you had to come along looking down your nose at people like a jackass.

I'm judging you because I'm better than you are, I don't eat meat=don't abuse animals=don't support factory farms=don't support massive pollution from the animals because there are so many=I'm healthier=have less chance of getting a whole host of medical problems related to meat=don't take food away from starving people to feed my meat sources=I'm a better human being than you are. See how simple that is?

I can see why you're so in the red on the reps. You've got an elevated ego, and that makes me better than you are.

Simple facts buddy, vegetarians are healthier than meat eaters, but do stay ignorant, I really don't mind.

 

[ima]

I can see why you're so in the red on the reps. You've got an elevated ego, and that makes me better than you are.

Simple facts buddy, vegetarians are healthier than meat eaters, but do stay ignorant, I really don't mind.

All vegetarians are not healthier than all meat eaters.

Even the fantastic four wouldn't try to make that stretch.

All meat eaters would benefit even more by going vegetarian, so would the environment and so would the world's starving people. Now THAT'S a fact.

 

[ima]

All vegetarians are not healthier than all meat eaters.

Even the fantastic four wouldn't try to make that stretch.

All meat eaters would benefit even more by going vegetarian, so would the environment and so would the world's starving people. Now THAT'S a fact.

And you should stop driving a car, and in fact what is this necessity with using a computer and wasting energy to run the computer.....for LEISURE? How odd, for such a dedicated guy.

I'm still better than you are towards my health, animals, the environment and starving people. But as long as you get your meat, **** the starving people, right?