Obama to Announce Car Mileage Plan

[Midnight Marauder]

Actually, it was six years, beginning in 2002. However, the first few years of increases were not a big issue, because we were still well below the inflation adjusted price for gasoline going all the way back to the 50's. The rising gas prices were not a real detriment until we went over $3.00 per gallon and then finally, over $4.00 per gallon.

You have to remember, at one point around 1999, gas was under $1.00 per gallon, which was well below the nominal inflation adjusted price for gasoline. Based on today's dollars, gasoline has normally sold for around $2.25 to $2.50 per gallon.

Inflation adjusted Gasoline Price Chart

Thank you for bringing this up, because it's a little known, valid point that dovetails with the price of gasoline expressed as a percentage of the GDP, which we are yet to beat the highest gasoline prices ever when expressed this way, 1981.

 

[Oddball]

Actually, it was six years, beginning in 2002. However, the first few years of increases were not a big issue, because we were still well below the inflation adjusted price for gasoline going all the way back to the 50's. The rising gas prices were not a real detriment until we went over $3.00 per gallon and then finally, over $4.00 per gallon.

You have to remember, at one point around 1999, gas was under $1.00 per gallon, which was well below the nominal inflation adjusted price for gasoline. Based on today's dollars, gasoline has normally sold for around $2.25 to $2.50 per gallon.

Inflation adjusted Gasoline Price Chart

Currency inflation is the real culprit here.

But since the average mouth breather who gets their "news" from CNN/NYT/NBCCBSABC doesn't understand the nature of valueless fiat currencies, they blame BigOil for "gouging" them, without an analytical thought in their heads.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Currency inflation is the real culprit here.

But since the average mouth breather doesn't understand the nature of valuless fiat currencies, they blame BigOil for "gouging" them, without an analytical thought in their heads.

The REAL solution to Goebbels Warming, right here: Stop Breathing Now!!!

 

[KittenKoder]

Actually, it was six years, beginning in 2002. However, the first few years of increases were not a big issue, because we were still well below the inflation adjusted price for gasoline going all the way back to the 50's. The rising gas prices were not a real detriment until we went over $3.00 per gallon and then finally, over $4.00 per gallon.

You have to remember, at one point around 1999, gas was under $1.00 per gallon, which was well below the nominal inflation adjusted price for gasoline. Based on today's dollars, gasoline has normally sold for around $2.25 to $2.50 per gallon.

Inflation adjusted Gasoline Price Chart

Currency inflation is the real culprit here.

But since the average mouth breather who gets their "news" from CNN/NYT/NBCCBSABC doesn't understand the nature of valueless fiat currencies, they blame BigOil for "gouging" them, without an analytical thought in their heads.

The irony, they had to raise the price momentarily to make up for the losses from not raising the prices due to inflation ... or they would have had a lot more people in the unemployment lines here in the US.

I enjoyed the gas hike myself, it was nice having fewer cars on the roads for a bit.

 

[cunclusion]

That is fine but what I am saying is that what would the problem be if the truck you had got better gas mileage. We have cars in this country that are midsized that get above 30 yeah i see that the top vehicle in China right now is Buick but with the way that government runs things how long you think Buick will be number one. They are actually raising their fuel standards higher and faster than ours. Things still must change anyway the reason big cars fly off dealership lots is called short term thinking later they will fall into the same problem as people did when gas went up before.

What evidence do you have that American car manufacturers intentionally lower the fuel efficiency of the vehicles they produce? How can you just wave your magic government wand and make cars get better gas mileage?

American car manufacturers have the know how to produce cars and trucks with better gas mileage, we see alot of that coming out now who would picture Ford having multiple cars a small and two that seat five that get over 34 thats not including the hybrid versions of two of these vehicles. Problem is they have not been given the will/encouragement and unfortunately economics was not encouraging them to produce these types of vehicles.

 

[KittenKoder]

That is fine but what I am saying is that what would the problem be if the truck you had got better gas mileage. We have cars in this country that are midsized that get above 30 yeah i see that the top vehicle in China right now is Buick but with the way that government runs things how long you think Buick will be number one. They are actually raising their fuel standards higher and faster than ours. Things still must change anyway the reason big cars fly off dealership lots is called short term thinking later they will fall into the same problem as people did when gas went up before.

What evidence do you have that American car manufacturers intentionally lower the fuel efficiency of the vehicles they produce? How can you just wave your magic government wand and make cars get better gas mileage?

American car manufacturers have the know how to produce cars and trucks with better gas mileage, we see alot of that coming out now who would picture Ford having multiple cars a small and two that seat five that get over 34 thats not including the hybrid versions of two of these vehicles. Problem is they have not been given the will/encouragement and unfortunately economics was not encouraging them to produce these types of vehicles.

Meh, if their product is bad then another company should be able to come along and replace them. Problem is, with all the regulations new companies don't stand a chance, so who's fault is it really?

 

[Hillbilly]

That is fine but what I am saying is that what would the problem be if the truck you had got better gas mileage. We have cars in this country that are midsized that get above 30 yeah i see that the top vehicle in China right now is Buick but with the way that government runs things how long you think Buick will be number one. They are actually raising their fuel standards higher and faster than ours. Things still must change anyway the reason big cars fly off dealership lots is called short term thinking later they will fall into the same problem as people did when gas went up before.

What evidence do you have that American car manufacturers intentionally lower the fuel efficiency of the vehicles they produce? How can you just wave your magic government wand and make cars get better gas mileage?

American car manufacturers have the know how to produce cars and trucks with better gas mileage, we see alot of that coming out now who would picture Ford having multiple cars a small and two that seat five that get over 34 thats not including the hybrid versions of two of these vehicles. Problem is they have not been given the will/encouragement and unfortunately economics was not encouraging them to produce these types of vehicles.

34???? That isn't up to standards. They will need to improve 15%.

 

[Oddball]

American car manufacturers have the know how to produce cars and trucks with better gas mileage, we see alot of that coming out now who would picture Ford having multiple cars a small and two that seat five that get over 34 thats not including the hybrid versions of two of these vehicles. Problem is they have not been given the will/encouragement and unfortunately economics was not encouraging them to produce these types of vehicles.

Again, fuel efficiency doesn't always come out in mpg....The same engines of 20-30 years ago are getting upwards of 50% more horsepower out of them, for the same displacement.

This is what makes CAFE standards so stupid...They only use one yardstick to measure efficiency.

 

[Hillbilly]

Do you know what sort of chaos would ensue if everyone had to drive mini-cars towing trailers instead of pickups? They would also be more inefficient.

 

[Chris]

Do you know what sort of chaos would ensue if everyone had to drive mini-cars towing trailers instead of pickups? They would also be more inefficient.

I love people arguing against a solution to the most important national security problem we face....our dependence on foreign oil.

We have to solution to solve these problems. Obama is the only president in the last 30 years to address them.

Good job, Obama.

 

[Care4all]

Do you know what sort of chaos would ensue if everyone had to drive mini-cars towing trailers instead of pickups? They would also be more inefficient.

strawman

everyone would not have to drive mini cars nor have to tow using them....keep it realistic to what is actually going on would keep the true discussion/debate going on this thread imo...

there are both positives and negatives to this measure, as there is with most all things...

care

 

[Oddball]

Do you know what sort of chaos would ensue if everyone had to drive mini-cars towing trailers instead of pickups? They would also be more inefficient.

I love people arguing against a solution to the most important national security problem we face....our dependence on foreign oil.

We have to solution to solve these problems. Obama is the only president in the last 30 years to address them.

Good job, Obama.

Strawman.

As has been stated twice now, mpg is not the only measure of fuel efficiency. Also, that dependence on foreign oil could be greatly diminished by developing ripe domestic resources.

But that would mean that a problem would be solved, or at least aided...And that's the last thing any prattling and posturing politician wants, because it makes people less dependent upon them.

 

[k2skier]

Good job, Obama!

America's dependency on foreign oil is our greatest security threat.

Only an idiot would not recognize that.

Only an idiot believes this will in any way help with that issue, and only an idiot believes this is really about reducing consumption of enemy oil.

And only an idiot cheers Obama for repeating the same failed policy of a couple of his predecessors. Showing once again that he has no original ideas of his own.

Since when has Canada been our enemy?

 

[k2skier]

Which Vehicles Are Tested

Manufacturers do not test every new vehicle offered for sale. They are only required to test one representative vehicle—typically a preproduction prototype—for each combination of loaded vehicle weight class, transmission class, and basic engine.

Some vehicles are exempt from these requirements:

Motorcycles

Large vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 8,500 pounds, such as larger pickup trucks and SUVs (GVWR is the weight of the vehicle, all fluids, and its maximum carrying capacity)

 

[k2skier]

All you neocons and Obabma haters, take a deep breath, omfg.

 

[k2skier]

35.5 will be very easy to get to, and still have V8 trucks, don't you all wet yourselves.

Fuel Economy Standards for Passenger Cars and Light Trucks - CAFE - 1978 - 2007

Model Years 1978 Through 2007 (miles-per-gallon)
Model
Year Passenger
Cars Light trucks Fleet
Average
2-wheel drive 4-wheel drive Combined
1978 18.0 - - - na
1979 19.0 17.2 15.8 - 20.1
1980 20.0 16.0 14.0 - 23.1
1981 22.0 16.7 15.0 - 24.6
1982 24.0 18.0 16.0 17.5 25.1
1983 26.0 19.5 17.5 19.0 24.8
1984 27.0 20.3 18.5 20.0 25.0
1985 27.5 19.7 18.9 19.5 25.4
1986 26.0 20.5 19.5 20.0 25.9
1987 26.0 21.5 19.5 20.5 26.2
1988 26.0 21.0 19.5 20.5 26.0
1989 26.5 21.5 19.0 20.0 25.6
1990 27.5 20.5 19.0 20.2 25.4
1991 27.5 20.7 19.1 20.2 25.6
1992 27.5 - - 20.2 25.1
1993 27.5 - - 20.4 25.2
1994 27.5 - - 20.5 24.7
1995 27.5 - - 20.6 24.9
1996 27.5 - - 20.7 24.9
1997 27.5 - - 20.7 24.6
1998 27.5 - - 20.7 24.7
1999 27.5 - - 20.7 24.5
2000 27.5 - - 20.7 24.7
2001 27.5 - - 20.7 24.4
2002 27.5 - - 20.7 24.6*
2003 27.5 - - 20.7 25.0*
2004 27.5 - - 20.7 na
2005 27.5 - - 21.0 na
2006 27.5 - - 21.6 na
2007 27.5 - - 22.2 na
Source:

 

[Oddball]

Oh, goody...

Yet another authoritarian Kool-Aider who can't wrap their head around the fact tha mpg is not the only logically legitimate way to measure fuel efficiency.

Probably a snowboarder, too.

Book me passage on the last plane out.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I thought I had read somewhere awhile back that ethanol reduces the efficiency of mpg on cars. Anyone know anything about this?

 

[Hillbilly]

35.5 will be very easy to get to, and still have V8 trucks, don't you all wet yourselves.

Fuel Economy Standards for Passenger Cars and Light Trucks - CAFE - 1978 - 2007

Model Years 1978 Through 2007 (miles-per-gallon)
Model
Year Passenger
Cars Light trucks Fleet
Average
2-wheel drive 4-wheel drive Combined
1978 18.0 - - - na
1979 19.0 17.2 15.8 - 20.1
1980 20.0 16.0 14.0 - 23.1
1981 22.0 16.7 15.0 - 24.6
1982 24.0 18.0 16.0 17.5 25.1
1983 26.0 19.5 17.5 19.0 24.8
1984 27.0 20.3 18.5 20.0 25.0
1985 27.5 19.7 18.9 19.5 25.4
1986 26.0 20.5 19.5 20.0 25.9
1987 26.0 21.5 19.5 20.5 26.2
1988 26.0 21.0 19.5 20.5 26.0
1989 26.5 21.5 19.0 20.0 25.6
1990 27.5 20.5 19.0 20.2 25.4
1991 27.5 20.7 19.1 20.2 25.6
1992 27.5 - - 20.2 25.1
1993 27.5 - - 20.4 25.2
1994 27.5 - - 20.5 24.7
1995 27.5 - - 20.6 24.9
1996 27.5 - - 20.7 24.9
1997 27.5 - - 20.7 24.6
1998 27.5 - - 20.7 24.7
1999 27.5 - - 20.7 24.5
2000 27.5 - - 20.7 24.7
2001 27.5 - - 20.7 24.4
2002 27.5 - - 20.7 24.6*
2003 27.5 - - 20.7 25.0*
2004 27.5 - - 20.7 na
2005 27.5 - - 21.0 na
2006 27.5 - - 21.6 na
2007 27.5 - - 22.2 na
Source:

Is there any reason to believe that the average mpg can increase by 40%? Nope, none whatsoever. The only way to do it is to design tiny little cars, or fill the back of the pickup with batteries and run it on electric motors, charged with electricity that will sap all the money out of your check once Cap 'n Tax goes through.

 

[Oddball]

I thought I had read somewhere awhile back that ethanol reduces the efficiency of mpg on cars. Anyone know anything about this?

That is correct....There are fewer BTUs in a given volume of ETOH than in the same amount of gasoline.

Also, ETOH eats the crap out of the gaskets and seals in engines designed for gasoline, and really plays havoc with marine engines.