Obama: Palestine Deserves Statehood

[The Rabbi]

Great - that's all I needed to hear.

Why anyone would lecture on a country he has never set foot in, I have no idea.

And hence you ignored everything else

I did - to be honest I don't see a lot of value in discussing Israel with people who aren't familiar with the place. It's nothing personal...I just don't see the point.

How many years of Hebrew and Arabic did you have?

 

[MHunterB]

I found this little bit of info from the Wiki link illustrative of the problem:

Under 'Belligerents' it listed on the one side, Israel


And on the other, it listed:
Egypt
Syria
Jordan
Arab Expeditionary Forces:
Iraq[1]
Supported by:
Saudi Arabia
Pakistan[2]
Morocco
Algeria
Libya
Kuwait
Tunisia
Sudan
PLO

 

[DiamondDave]

And hence you ignored everything else

I did - to be honest I don't see a lot of value in discussing Israel with people who aren't familiar with the place. It's nothing personal...I just don't see the point.

How many years of Hebrew and Arabic did you have?

Yeah.. dealing with and talking with my Ex's grandmother for well over a decade, especially daily after she took pretty good injuries from a Pali bus bomb, means I would have NO insight

meanwhile, Saigon sounds as if he gets all his knowledge from anti-zionist or anti-Israel pamphlets that come directly from the PLO

 

[The Rabbi]

I did - to be honest I don't see a lot of value in discussing Israel with people who aren't familiar with the place. It's nothing personal...I just don't see the point.

How many years of Hebrew and Arabic did you have?

Yeah.. dealing with and talking with my Ex's grandmother for well over a decade, especially daily after she took pretty good injuries from a Pali bus bomb, means I would have NO insight

meanwhile, Saigon sounds as if he gets all his knowledge from anti-zionist or anti-Israel pamphlets that come directly from the PLO

I predict he will not answer my question and probably abandon the conversation except perhaps for some inane comment.
People's attitude to Israel seems like a touchstone to their moral compass. Those who support the murdering PLO thugs seem in general to be ok with totalitarianism. T hose who support Israel seem in general to be ok with freedom. I offer no explanation as to why.

 

[Saigon]

Yeah.. dealing with and talking with my Ex's grandmother for well over a decade, especially daily after she took pretty good injuries from a Pali bus bomb, means I would have NO insight

meanwhile, Saigon sounds as if he gets all his knowledge from anti-zionist or anti-Israel pamphlets that come directly from the PLO

I'm sure your Ex's grandmother was a very interesting person and a useful source of information for you, but it's not what I really call a solid basis in undertanding the conflict.

btw. I'm pro-Israeli. I wouldn't have chosen to live there otherwise.

 

[Saigon]

I predict he will not answer my question and probably abandon the conversation except perhaps for some inane comment.
People's attitude to Israel seems like a touchstone to their moral compass. Those who support the murdering PLO thugs seem in general to be ok with totalitarianism. T hose who support Israel seem in general to be ok with freedom. I offer no explanation as to why.

It's funny - I don't think I've seen anyone familiar with the conflict to refer to the PLO for perhaps 20 years now. I think that says a lot about people, too.

btw, the mistake you make is to assume that people are either pro-Israeli and anti-Palestinian; or pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli. You simply can not hang on that view and understand the conflict at all.

 

[Rocko]

Obama says he's not giving up on Mideast peace

Not this crap again...

And Obama sticking his nose in it...

Sorry Palestinians.. you don't have a country.. and Israel does not owe any land to you...

Maybe we can just give them California???

It's the only way there will ever be peace in the region. If Palestinians don't have a country, it's because the Israelis are stealing it bit by bit.

Bullshit! The only way there can be peace in the region is when one side is defeated and surrenders. A Palestinian State would make things much worse.

 

[DiamondDave]

Except that every stance you give is anti-Israeli and pretty much an Israeli bash fest.. but hey, you SAY you're pro-Israel while living in Finland.. who's to doubt you

 

[Saigon]

Except that every stance you give is anti-Israeli and pretty much an Israeli bash fest.. but hey, you SAY you're pro-Israel while living in Finland.. who's to doubt you

I'd be delighted to see an example of my "bashing" Israel.

You won't find one.

I would think the fact that I can talk about villages in Israel and decribe how they look and so forth would be evidence enough for most people, but I've posted pics of myself in exactly those villages before and can do so again if you wish. It makes no difference to me.

 

[The Rabbi]

Except that every stance you give is anti-Israeli and pretty much an Israeli bash fest.. but hey, you SAY you're pro-Israel while living in Finland.. who's to doubt you

I'd be delighted to see an example of my "bashing" Israel.

You won't find one.

I would think the fact that I can talk about villages in Israel and decribe how they look and so forth would be evidence enough for most people, but I've posted pics of myself in exactly those villages before and can do so again if you wish. It makes no difference to me.

Wow. A tourist makes one qualified to comment on the political state of the whole region. You must be some kind of genius. Maybe it's osmosis.
Remind me how many years of Arabic and Hebrew you have.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

It's amusing to me that Israel has literally bent over backwards to show their support for President Obama yet his detractors on this site still can't let their Israeli/Obama paranoia go. This website is boring with how brain dead the Obama bashers are. One stupid conspiracy theory that gets shattered to the next from these idiots.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Obama says he's not giving up on Mideast peace

Not this crap again...

And Obama sticking his nose in it...

Sorry Palestinians.. you don't have a country.. and Israel does not owe any land to you...

Maybe we can just give them California???

The idea that no solution exists never occurs to people like DiamondDave, and in this lies their strength. Better to be negative and bereft of ideas than to work hard at solutions. It's always so much easier to default to an ideology than to look outside that little box, isn't that correct Dave?

 

[Saigon]

Wow. A tourist makes one qualified to comment on the political state of the whole region. You must be some kind of genius. Maybe it's osmosis.
Remind me how many years of Arabic and Hebrew you have.

Who said I was a tourist?

Try and post with a little honesty and common sense, man.

 

[Katzndogz]

Whether or not they have a state is entirely up to Palestinians and always have been. Palestinians do not want a two state solution. They want ONE state, a palestinian state.

 

[Saigon]

Whether or not they have a state is entirely up to Palestinians and always have been. Palestinians do not want a two state solution. They want ONE state, a palestinian state.

A recent polled showed that 60% of Palestinians want a two-state solution.

Not that you care about facts.

 

[MHunterB]

Whether or not they have a state is entirely up to Palestinians and always have been. Palestinians do not want a two state solution. They want ONE state, a palestinian state.

A recent polled showed that 60% of Palestinians want a two-state solution.

Not that you care about facts.

I care about facts : )) The question is, how is there going to be a 2-state solution while HAMAS refuses to accept Israel's existence ?

 

[Katzndogz]

Another poll! It's not like someone would LIE!

Palestine Has Always Rejected A Two-State Solution

The reality, however, is that the Palestinians have been offered statehood on three different occasions in the past century. In all three instances, Israel supported the plan while the Palestinians viciously opposed it and instead resorted to terrorism.

The first chance for a sovereign Arab state was in 1937, when the British set up the Peel Commission to investigate possible changes to the British Mandate. It was recommended that an independent Jewish state, in areas where Jews were a majority, would be created alongside an Arab state, in areas where Arabs were a majority. The Arab state would have been significantly larger than the Jewish state, and both people would have been given the fundamental right of self-determination. However, the Arabs rejected the plan, and continued their fight to, as the grand mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, said, “drive the Jews into the sea.”

The second — and most widely recognized — chance came in 1947, when the UN decided to split the region of Palestine much like the Peel Commission set out to do. Again, the Arabs rejected the plan, and they instead chose to attack Israel the day after they declared independence.

The third chance came in 2000, at the Middle East Peace Summit moderated by President Bill Clinton. In internationally shocking fashion, Israel offered nearly everything the Arabs wanted, an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza, compensation and right of return for refugees, and control over much of Jerusalem. Almost inexplicably, the Palestinians rejected the proposal.

It is the Palestinians, not the Israelis, who have never supported a two-state solution. If it were not for their complete refusal to negotiate with the Israelis, there would now stand a sovereign state of Palestine significantly larger than what is being fought for today. The current bid at the UN is just one more example of the complete dismissal of any approach that involves the Palestinians' actually negotiating with Israel.

 

[The Rabbi]

Whether or not they have a state is entirely up to Palestinians and always have been. Palestinians do not want a two state solution. They want ONE state, a palestinian state.

A recent polled showed that 60% of Palestinians want a two-state solution.

Not that you care about facts.

They don't. Whatever they say. Dave pointed out they have rejected their own state at every opportunity, always holding out for more. And the policies they demand, like the right of return, are guaranteed to obliterate Israel.

 

[Wehrwolfen]

 

[NYcarbineer]

So Israel is entitled to the land they 'conquered'?

Why wasn't Saddam Hussein thus, by that 'logic', entitled to Kuwait?