Obama or Party

[G.T.]

There's really no use, even, in discussing anything like an adult with people who believe in "their" media's carefully designed caricature of the "others."

Pigheaded shit like that is counter-productive.

 

[Sallow]

It's not a matter of being a fan..it's a matter of who best represents the interests of the people and the country. We don't "follow" anyone. The people we put into power work for us. We don't have the King/serfs paradigm you conservatives follow.

So what is it you expect the Dem Party to do for you?

Run the country while I go to work.

I don't want to have to worry about my house burning down, or getting robbed, or bridges falling down or a myriad of other things that I depend on the government to do.

I pay taxes to have those services provided to me. I don't pay taxes to create a monied class that live in Ivory towers that complain that I want free stuff. While taking my taxes to build their Ivory towers.

 

[G.T.]

So because you don't tan or smoke you want the Dems to make those who do pay more so you can pay less?

What else?

I could give a fuck less about tanning or smoking, but no, I didnt say I wanted their taxes to be raised, I said mine weren't.

You said they were lowered. They went down.

They did.

 

[8537]

I would like to know what Dem's expect from the folks they vote for.

1) Get us out of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan on a reasonable timeline as promised.

2) Return an economy that's shedding an annualized 9% of its production to growth.

3) Stop the bleeding of 800,00 jobs per month.

4) End DADT and move marriage equality forward.

5) Pass a reasonable health care reform package.

6) Increase spending on infrastructure and education

7) Cut taxes on those that paid the most dearly with stagnant incomes for the past decade.

8) Classify CO2 under the Clean Air Act.

(And that's just the first term!)

 

[G.T.]

PolitiFact | Barack Obama says taxes are lower for middle class today than when he took office

"Now, I know you hear a lot of folks on cable TV claiming that I’m this big tax-and-spend liberal," Obama said. "Next time you hear that, you just remind the people who are saying it that since I’ve taken office, I’ve cut your taxes. … The average middle-class family, your taxes today are lower than when I took office, just remember that. We have cut taxes for small businesses not once, not twice, but 17 times. The average family’s tax burden is among the lowest it’s been in the last 60 years. So the problem is not that we’ve been raising taxes. We’ve actually been trying to give families a break during these tough times."

A couple readers asked us to check this item. One wrote us, "I've seen conservative reactions ranging from, ‘I laughed out loud’ to ‘What a comedian!’"

So we decided to take a look.

We’ve addressed two of these claims in previous items -- the one about small business tax cuts (rating it Mostly True) and the one about the tax burden being the lowest in 60 years (rating it Mostly True). So in this item, we’re only analyzing Obama’s claim that for "the average middle-class family, your taxes today are lower than when I took office."

First, let’s recap some background about the tax, and the tax cut, that Obama was touting in Scranton.

The payroll tax refers to federal taxes taken directly from the paychecks of employed Americans. It is primarily used to fund Social Security and Medicare. For two decades, the payroll tax meant a 6.2 percent deduction on annual earnings for most workers. There were limits to the total amount individuals could be required to pay. In 2009 and 2010, the levy applied to the first $106,800 of salary, meaning no one would pay more than $6,621. Employers paid a matching share.

In December 2010, the levy was cut to 4.2 percent for workers as part of an agreement Obama worked out with Congress to extend income tax reductions passed during President George W. Bush’s administration. The payroll tax reduction is in effect for the duration of 2011.

But in his American Jobs Act, Obama proposed slicing the payroll to 3.1 percent for workers next year. (To help employers, the president also proposed a 50 percent tax cut in the first $5 million of payroll costs for most small businesses.)

Obama has also enacted some other tax cuts while in office, including the American Opportunity Tax Credit for tuition and other educational fees and expansions of the existing Earned Income Tax Credit and child tax credit.

He’s also raised some taxes (or didn’t stop them from going up), but these hikes aren’t as relevant for judging his statement in Scranton. Some of the tax hikes haven’t taken effect yet, like a few in the health care bill, so these wouldn’t be a factor in judging the statement that for "the average middle-class family, your taxes today are lower than when I took office." Other tax increases affect only very wealthy taxpayers.

Two taxes would be relevant for this calculation. Obama signed legislation raising taxes on cigarettes and other tobacco products soon after taking office; that money goes to pay for children's health insurance programs. The law went into effect in 2009. He also signed the health care law, which includes taxes on indoor tanning that went into effect last year.

It’s hard to tell exactly who’s footing the burden for these taxes. However, cigarette and tanning taxes account for a relatively small share of all federal taxes (and zero for people who don’t use either of them).

The broadest analyses we’ve seen are the tax analyses produced by the Urban Institute-Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center, an independent research organization.

We looked at the group’s estimate of what tax burden is borne by Americans of different income levels. The group calculates the average federal tax burden and the average federal tax rate for five quintiles of U.S. households -- or 20-percent groupings, from the top of the income scale to the bottom. These figures include the federal income tax, payroll taxes, and estate taxes, though not federal excise taxes or corporate taxes. (The tax rate figure is the "effective" tax rate -- how much the average taxpayer ultimately pays as a percentage of their cash income. It’s not a "tax bracket," which refers to the income tax rate paid on a taxpayer’s final dollar of income.)

To come up with a definition of "middle class," we ignored the top 20 percent and the bottom 20 percent and focused on the three segments of 20 percent each in the middle of the income distribution. We used the tax data for 2008 and for 2011.

So how do the numbers look? Here’s the summary.

Second-lowest 20 percent

2008 tax burden: $1,715
2011 tax burden: $1,396
Decline of $319

2008 tax rate: 6.7 percent
2011 tax rate: 5.7 percent
Decline of 1 percentage point

Middle 20 percent

2008 tax burden: $6,290
2011 tax burden: $5,535
Decline of $775

2008 tax rate: 13.6 percent
2011 tax rate: 12.4 percent
Decline of 1.2 percentage points

Second-highest 20 percent

2008 tax burden: $13,749
2011 tax burden: $13,078
Decline of $671

2008 tax rate: 17.4 percent
2011 tax rate: 16.5 percent
Decline of 0.9 percentage points

So for each of the three middle quintiles, both the amount of tax paid and the effective tax rate paid declined.

Our ruling

Every taxpayer is different, and some "middle-class" Americans may have seen their tax rate or their tax burden go up for one reason or another. But Obama was talking about "the average middle-class family." The changes to the tax code made under Obama and the analyses by the Tax Policy Center show that for the middle 60 percent of the income distribution, both the average tax paid and the average tax rate fell between 2008 and 2011. We rate Obama’s statement True.

 

[8537]

So because you don't tan or smoke you want the Dems to make those who do pay more so you can pay less?

What else?

I could give a fuck less about tanning or smoking, but no, I didnt say I wanted their taxes to be raised, I said mine weren't.

You said they were lowered. They went down.

They did. The stimulus bill was about 35% tax cuts, including a middle class tax cut that put about $1,000 in the pocket of a median dual-income family.

 

[copsnrobbers]

I could give a fuck less about tanning or smoking, but no, I didnt say I wanted their taxes to be raised, I said mine weren't.

You said they were lowered. They went down.

They did.

Oh ok then..

 

[SniperFire]

There's really no use, even, in discussing anything like an adult with people who believe in "their" media's carefully designed caricature of the "others."

Pigheaded shit like that is counter-productive.

Hilarious.

You just regurged the Leftist meme that Ryan was not a conservative.

 

[copsnrobbers]

I could give a fuck less about tanning or smoking, but no, I didnt say I wanted their taxes to be raised, I said mine weren't.

You said they were lowered. They went down.

They did. The stimulus bill was about 35% tax cuts, including a middle class tax cut that put about $1,000 in the pocket of a median dual-income family.

Do you know how much that has added to the annual debt and how does it compared to 8 days of interest paid annually if the wealthy are taxed higher?

 

[G.T.]

There's really no use, even, in discussing anything like an adult with people who believe in "their" media's carefully designed caricature of the "others."

Pigheaded shit like that is counter-productive.

Hilarious.

You just regurged the Leftist meme that Ryan was not a conservative.

See what I mean? All you did was cite a think-tank. You didn't look at his economic record, come back with facts and data, nooooo.

You acted loike a little kid. Pointless.

Do you, or do you not, agree with his economic record in office? After you answer, I'll pull it up for you and you can tell me how conservative it looks to you.

Hint: he's a drunken spender. But A thinktank told you they like him, and you blindly accept that like a lemming.

 

[8537]

You said they were lowered. They went down.

They did. The stimulus bill was about 35% tax cuts, including a middle class tax cut that put about $1,000 in the pocket of a median dual-income family.

Do you know how much that has added to the annual debt and how does it compared to 8 days of interest paid annually if the wealthy are taxed higher?

well, there are approximately 135M working Americans. If the average tax cut is $500 (because some would get none, some more) then 135,000,000 x 500 = 67.5B, give or take - minus whatever tax revenues it creates....

So according to Rush and the rightwing economic moonbats, the tax cut is responsible for increased federal revenues.

 

[bitterlyclingin]

The Party of indolence, sloth, and perversion.
In contrast to the America of the founders, "One Nation under God..", who sensed deeply that their endeavor would inevitably founder and fail without some outside intervention.

‘Our Right Come From Nature and God, Not Government’: Paul Ryan Channels Philosopher John Locke in Announcement Speech [Video] – John Malcolm

Paul Ryan Comes Out Swinging Against Obama: “If You Have A Small Business, You Did Build That”… | Weasel Zippers

But the Democrats can only supply this:

Middle Class Warrior Michelle Obama Hits Hollywood Fundraiser At Pop Star Gwen Stefani’s Home… | Weasel Zippers

Obama: “Islam Is Part Of Our National Story”… | Weasel Zippers

Obama Calls Hillary Clinton Aide Huma Abedin An “American Patriot” During Ramadan Dinner Speech… | Weasel Zippers

Of course there's more to Huma than her work for Hillary:

Huma Abedin's Ties to Muslim Brotherhood Deeper Than Rep. Bachmann Suspected

Then or course, there's the David Brock, Barney Frank wing of the Democratic Party...

 

[Sallow]

The Party of indolence, sloth, and perversion.
In contrast to the America of the founders, "One Nation under God..", who sensed deeply that their endeavor would inevitably founder and fail without some outside intervention.

‘Our Right Come From Nature and God, Not Government’: Paul Ryan Channels Philosopher John Locke in Announcement Speech [Video] – John Malcolm

Paul Ryan Comes Out Swinging Against Obama: “If You Have A Small Business, You Did Build That”… | Weasel Zippers

But the Democrats can only supply this:

Middle Class Warrior Michelle Obama Hits Hollywood Fundraiser At Pop Star Gwen Stefani’s Home… | Weasel Zippers

Obama: “Islam Is Part Of Our National Story”… | Weasel Zippers

Obama Calls Hillary Clinton Aide Huma Abedin An “American Patriot” During Ramadan Dinner Speech… | Weasel Zippers

Of course there's more to Huma than her work for Hillary:

Huma Abedin's Ties to Muslim Brotherhood Deeper Than Rep. Bachmann Suspected

Then or course, there's the David Brock, Barney Frank wing of the Democratic Party...

The founders didn't come up with "One Nation under god". That little ditty was added into the pledge during the 1950s.

God doesn't appear in the Constitution.

 

[copsnrobbers]

They did. The stimulus bill was about 35% tax cuts, including a middle class tax cut that put about $1,000 in the pocket of a median dual-income family.

Do you know how much that has added to the annual debt and how does it compared to 8 days of interest paid annually if the wealthy are taxed higher?

well, there are approximately 135M working Americans. If the average tax cut is $500 (because some would get none, some more) then 135,000,000 x 500 = 67.5B, give or take - minus whatever tax revenues it creates....

So according to Rush and the rightwing economic moonbats, the tax cut is responsible for increased federal revenues.

The annual deficit is over a trillion dollars.. some of that is the cost of the war.. where is the rest going?
That middle class tax cut amounts to a pea hole in the snow as compared to the total annual debt.. as would taxing the rich and gambling them away.

 

[SniperFire]

This is America's problem.

 

[G.T.]

This is America's problem.

Social Security is paid into, it's not an entitlement.

Entitlements are welfare, things like that.

 

[copsnrobbers]

Sniperfire, Maybe we should consider the fact that people live longer and cost have gone up.
Solution to medicare is to increase the individual contribution. Not take it apart or ignore the problem.

Social Security has been robbed by the politicians..

The politicians and Wall St. who don't produce a thing... have caused all our woo's.. we suffer the consequences of there actions.
Then the Media divides us.. It's a total cluster fuck.

 

[copsnrobbers]

I would like to know what Dem's expect from the folks they vote for.

1) Get us out of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan on a reasonable timeline as promised.

2) Return an economy that's shedding an annualized 9% of its production to growth.

3) Stop the bleeding of 800,00 jobs per month.

4) End DADT and move marriage equality forward.

5) Pass a reasonable health care reform package.

6) Increase spending on infrastructure and education

7) Cut taxes on those that paid the most dearly with stagnant incomes for the past decade.

8) Classify CO2 under the Clean Air Act.

(And that's just the first term!)

The Dems have done next to nothing about any of your wishes. I don't disagree with most of them..

 

[8537]

I would like to know what Dem's expect from the folks they vote for.

1) Get us out of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan on a reasonable timeline as promised.

2) Return an economy that's shedding an annualized 9% of its production to growth.

3) Stop the bleeding of 800,00 jobs per month.

4) End DADT and move marriage equality forward.

5) Pass a reasonable health care reform package.

6) Increase spending on infrastructure and education

7) Cut taxes on those that paid the most dearly with stagnant incomes for the past decade.

8) Classify CO2 under the Clean Air Act.

(And that's just the first term!)

The Dems have done next to nothing about any of your wishes. I don't disagree with most of them..

Those are all things that have happened since Obama took office.

 

[8537]

Do you know how much that has added to the annual debt and how does it compared to 8 days of interest paid annually if the wealthy are taxed higher?

well, there are approximately 135M working Americans. If the average tax cut is $500 (because some would get none, some more) then 135,000,000 x 500 = 67.5B, give or take - minus whatever tax revenues it creates....

So according to Rush and the rightwing economic moonbats, the tax cut is responsible for increased federal revenues.

The annual deficit is over a trillion dollars.. some of that is the cost of the war.. where is the rest going?

A steep, steep decline in tax revenues since the recession started in December of 2007.