Obama needs to publicly tell Gaddafi to go.

[Samson]

the brits say they have a crack battalion ready to go. how they'll get there is anyone's guess.

They have a crack battalion?

 

[Mad Scientist]

All I know is that the economic recovery, which saw a real boost with the the jobs numbers, could be derailed very quickly by an artificial increase in oil prices. There is no need for it. There is no shortage. There is only a threat of a possible shortage. The speculators are having a ball with the Libyan crisis. They are pushing the oil prices to heights we have not seen in years.

As long as there is a crisis in the ME, they will continue to push the prices up.

Obama will open up Americas known oil reserves for exploration any day now.

Yep.

 

[konkon]

He needs to show his support for the protesters and tell this guy to go. Enough of the silence!

Fair point, but then what happens? Do they replace him with someone who promises the people the world but they end up with someone just as bad, if not worse?

 

[Samson]

All I know is that the economic recovery, which saw a real boost with the the jobs numbers, could be derailed very quickly by an artificial increase in oil prices. There is no need for it. There is no shortage. There is only a threat of a possible shortage. The speculators are having a ball with the Libyan crisis. They are pushing the oil prices to heights we have not seen in years.

As long as there is a crisis in the ME, they will continue to push the prices up.

Obama will open up Americas known oil reserves for exploration any day now.

Yep.

That would create many domestic jobs, strengthen the US's economic position, and could even keep individuals from relying on government assistance programs.

 

[jckryan]

Now, I took the liberty of condensing the article for this post and Italy was rarely mentioned if at all (I can give you the link if ya want).

I'm sure France and the EU can buy their oil from any of the countries you mentioned. But why? Libya is a stones throw away from the EU. If the U.S. military is asked by the rebels to spearhead at least a no-fly zone because Quackdafy goes more ballistic on the air assaults, I'm sure any oil contracts will be awarded to those who made an impact in assisting.
Should that happen, the EU will have to go farther to import their oil and most likely pay a bit more because of the increased demand. Because those exporters know the EU oil supply from across the Med will be cut by a good percentage.

Since the you've quoted ad neauseum, an article that isn't about Italian oil imports from Libya, I'm not surprised it wasn't mentioned. Italy is the major consumer of Libyan oil. But, as I've already pointed out, and you've agreed with, there are other sources of oil.

Other than to give you some hyperbolic excuse to note that France is in Europe, and the EC knows that North Africa exists, its not clear what sales of French planes to Libya has anything to do with this thread.

However, returning to my analogy of the Food Court at the Mall, what you are proposing as a possible scenario is as proposerously absurd as suggesting that we vandalize the WeinerDog for closing down instead of simply buying lunch at the Panda Express.

You left this out:

the EU will have to go farther to import/ship their oil and most likely pay a bit more because of the increased demand. Because those exporters know the EU oil supply from across the Med will be cut by a good percentage.

The sale of French Mig's to Libya . . . hmmm. Well if you combine it with all the other things that the French did with Libya throughout the years, guessing it might show where the French/Libyan ties might have started/been established.

 

[Trajan]

the brits say they have a crack battalion ready to go. how they'll get there is anyone's guess.

They have a crack battalion?

the pipe is friggin' boffo...its made from Mortar tubes...

 

[Trajan]

Let Europe worry about Libya. Last time I checked, Europe is alot closer to Libya than we are. It's about time Europeans got off their overly judgemental lazy duffs. Afterall, its' European countries who stand to have to absorb alot of future mid-eastern immigrants as a result of recent/on-going events.

The last time the Europeans worried about Libya, the Libyians kicked their ass.

says who! I, I mean we, shit They kicked ass!!!!

 

[Samson]

Let Europe worry about Libya. Last time I checked, Europe is alot closer to Libya than we are. It's about time Europeans got off their overly judgemental lazy duffs. Afterall, its' European countries who stand to have to absorb alot of future mid-eastern immigrants as a result of recent/on-going events.

The last time the Europeans worried about Libya, the Libyians kicked their ass.

says who! I, I mean we, shit They kicked ass!!!!

Actually, Libyians have never kicked ass, in fact, between WWI and WWII, the Italians put a good dent in the Camal-Jockey population.

The only reason Libyian's rid themselves of Italians was the arrival of allies in WWII. The Brits and French ran the place, but gave up looking for oil and left the desert to the rag-heads. Eight years later, $$$BILLIONS$$$ in oil was found, and Captain Gaddaffi and a handful of junior officers armed only with handguns took over.

And they say crime doesn't pay.

 

[hipeter924]

The last time the Europeans worried about Libya, the Libyians kicked their ass.

says who! I, I mean we, shit They kicked ass!!!!

Actually, Libyians have never kicked ass, in fact, between WWI and WWII, the Italians put a good dent in the Camal-Jockey population.

The only reason Libyian's rid themselves of Italians was the arrival of allies in WWII. The Brits and French ran the place, but gave up looking for oil and left the desert to the rag-heads. Eight years later, $$$BILLIONS$$$ in oil was found, and Captain Gaddaffi and a handful of junior officers armed only with handguns took over.

And they say crime doesn't pay.

Yet Libyans would rather lose than accept Americas help, who knew they hated the US that much...well not our problem, if they want to be irrational and lose their war against Ghadaffi then by all means they can wait for the UN to act (which will be basically when Ghadaffi has won the war).

 

[Samson]

says who! I, I mean we, shit They kicked ass!!!!

Actually, Libyians have never kicked ass, in fact, between WWI and WWII, the Italians put a good dent in the Camal-Jockey population.

The only reason Libyian's rid themselves of Italians was the arrival of allies in WWII. The Brits and French ran the place, but gave up looking for oil and left the desert to the rag-heads. Eight years later, $$$BILLIONS$$$ in oil was found, and Captain Gaddaffi and a handful of junior officers armed only with handguns took over.

And they say crime doesn't pay.

Yet Libyans would rather lose than accept Americas help, who knew they hated the US that much...well not our problem, if they want to be irrational and lose their war against Ghadaffi then by all means they can wait for the UN to act (which will be basically when Ghadaffi has won the war).

"Not our problem" indeed.

I cannot imagine a scenario where the US should lose one life for one Libyan.

 

[idb]

says who! I, I mean we, shit They kicked ass!!!!

Actually, Libyians have never kicked ass, in fact, between WWI and WWII, the Italians put a good dent in the Camal-Jockey population.

The only reason Libyian's rid themselves of Italians was the arrival of allies in WWII. The Brits and French ran the place, but gave up looking for oil and left the desert to the rag-heads. Eight years later, $$$BILLIONS$$$ in oil was found, and Captain Gaddaffi and a handful of junior officers armed only with handguns took over.

And they say crime doesn't pay.

Yet Libyans would rather lose than accept Americas help, who knew they hated the US that much...well not our problem, if they want to be irrational and lose their war against Ghadaffi then by all means they can wait for the UN to act (which will be basically when Ghadaffi has won the war).

Really, they don't want help?
Libyan Rebels Appeal to UN for Recognition, Protection Against Loyalists - Bloomberg

Leaders of Libya’s rebellion have appealed to the United Nations for recognition and protection against forces loyal to Muammar Qaddafi.

“We request from the international community to fulfill its obligations to protect the Libyan people from any further genocide and crimes against humanity without any direct military intervention on Libyan soil,” the Interim Transitional National Council said in a March 5 letter to the UN General Assembly.

 

[hipeter924]

Actually, Libyians have never kicked ass, in fact, between WWI and WWII, the Italians put a good dent in the Camal-Jockey population.

The only reason Libyian's rid themselves of Italians was the arrival of allies in WWII. The Brits and French ran the place, but gave up looking for oil and left the desert to the rag-heads. Eight years later, $$$BILLIONS$$$ in oil was found, and Captain Gaddaffi and a handful of junior officers armed only with handguns took over.

And they say crime doesn't pay.

Yet Libyans would rather lose than accept Americas help, who knew they hated the US that much...well not our problem, if they want to be irrational and lose their war against Ghadaffi then by all means they can wait for the UN to act (which will be basically when Ghadaffi has won the war).

Really, they don't want help?
Libyan Rebels Appeal to UN for Recognition, Protection Against Loyalists - Bloomberg

Leaders of Libya’s rebellion have appealed to the United Nations for recognition and protection against forces loyal to Muammar Qaddafi.

“We request from the international community to fulfill its obligations to protect the Libyan people from any further genocide and crimes against humanity without any direct military intervention on Libyan soil,” the Interim Transitional National Council said in a March 5 letter to the UN General Assembly.

Bloomberg is not Libya:

Libya is united in popular revolution – please don't intervene

We welcome a no-fly zone, but the blood of Libya's dead will be wasted if the west curses our uprising with failed intervention

Libyan demonstrators, flying the Kingdom of Libya flag, in the main square of Benghazi on 28 February 2011. Photograph: Tiago Petinga/EPA

Don't get me wrong. I, like most Libyans, believe that imposing a no-fly zone would be a good way to deal the regime a hard blow on many levels; it would cut the route of the mercenary convoys summoned from Africa, it would prevent Gaddafi from smuggling money and other assets, and most importantly it would stop the regime from bombing weapons arsenals that many eyewitnesses have maintained contain chemical weapons; something that would unleash an unimaginable catastrophe, not to mention that his planes might actually carry such weapons.
Nevertheless, one thing seems to have united Libyans of all stripes; any military intervention on the ground by any foreign force would be met – as Mustafa Abud Al Jeleil, the former justice minister and head of the opposition-formed interim government, said – with fighting much harsher than what the mercenaries themselves have unleashed.


Nor do I favour the possibility of a limited air strike for specific targets. This is a wholly popular revolution, the fuel to which has been the blood of the Libyan people. Libyans fought alone when western countries were busy ignoring their revolution at the beginning, fearful of their interests in Libya. This is why I'd like the revolution to be ended by those who first started it: the people of Libya.
Libya is united in popular revolution

 

[Trajan]

obama has now reached-

he did as well during the Egyptian fracas , theres a time to just stop talking.

If Qaddafi duck winds up hanging on, and this lasts for while Obama is hence us, are going to look completely foolish. Not that we aren't anyway cause this whole thing is beginning to shape up as a sandy Balkan brouhaha.The UN as usual is useless.

 

[Toro]

Here's a question - What happens if we publicly pressure Gaddafi to go and he doesn't? What if he wins and stays in power?

What has the West gained and what has the West lost? If he wins and we have publicly tried to oust him, he becomes an enemy in the war on terror, potentially funding al-Qaeda and other groups. Seems to me, that would be a pretty big L for our side.

The people who are opposing him in the east tend to be more fundamentalist and more willing to support our enemies. We should be working covertly, but I can see a whole lot of downside if we play this wrongly.

 

[idb]

Yet Libyans would rather lose than accept Americas help, who knew they hated the US that much...well not our problem, if they want to be irrational and lose their war against Ghadaffi then by all means they can wait for the UN to act (which will be basically when Ghadaffi has won the war).

Really, they don't want help?
Libyan Rebels Appeal to UN for Recognition, Protection Against Loyalists - Bloomberg

Leaders of Libya’s rebellion have appealed to the United Nations for recognition and protection against forces loyal to Muammar Qaddafi.

“We request from the international community to fulfill its obligations to protect the Libyan people from any further genocide and crimes against humanity without any direct military intervention on Libyan soil,” the Interim Transitional National Council said in a March 5 letter to the UN General Assembly.

Bloomberg is not Libya:

Libya is united in popular revolution – please don't intervene

We welcome a no-fly zone, but the blood of Libya's dead will be wasted if the west curses our uprising with failed intervention

Libyan demonstrators, flying the Kingdom of Libya flag, in the main square of Benghazi on 28 February 2011. Photograph: Tiago Petinga/EPA

Don't get me wrong. I, like most Libyans, believe that imposing a no-fly zone would be a good way to deal the regime a hard blow on many levels; it would cut the route of the mercenary convoys summoned from Africa, it would prevent Gaddafi from smuggling money and other assets, and most importantly it would stop the regime from bombing weapons arsenals that many eyewitnesses have maintained contain chemical weapons; something that would unleash an unimaginable catastrophe, not to mention that his planes might actually carry such weapons.
Nevertheless, one thing seems to have united Libyans of all stripes; any military intervention on the ground by any foreign force would be met – as Mustafa Abud Al Jeleil, the former justice minister and head of the opposition-formed interim government, said – with fighting much harsher than what the mercenaries themselves have unleashed.


Nor do I favour the possibility of a limited air strike for specific targets. This is a wholly popular revolution, the fuel to which has been the blood of the Libyan people. Libyans fought alone when western countries were busy ignoring their revolution at the beginning, fearful of their interests in Libya. This is why I'd like the revolution to be ended by those who first started it: the people of Libya.
Libya is united in popular revolution

Bloomberg wasn't speaking for the Libyan people, it was reporting their request.
If you read the quote properly they are asking for protection from excessive and brutal force without direct intervention on Libyan soil.
That's about what you're asking for isn't it?

For all that, I hope it works out well for your country and I also hope that any intervention is able to be carried out without inflaming the situation or the wider region.

 

[idb]

Here's a question - What happens if we publicly pressure Gaddafi to go and he doesn't? What if he wins and stays in power?

What has the West gained and what has the West lost? If he wins and we have publicly tried to oust him, he becomes an enemy in the war on terror, potentially funding al-Qaeda and other groups. Seems to me, that would be a pretty big L for our side.

The people who are opposing him in the east tend to be more fundamentalist and more willing to support our enemies. We should be working covertly, but I can see a whole lot of downside if we play this wrongly.

If Gaddafi stays on now, that's likely to teach the other despots in the region that shooting and bombing as many proestors as possible is the way to stay in power.

 

[hipeter924]

Really, they don't want help?
Libyan Rebels Appeal to UN for Recognition, Protection Against Loyalists - Bloomberg

Bloomberg is not Libya:

Libya is united in popular revolution – please don't intervene

We welcome a no-fly zone, but the blood of Libya's dead will be wasted if the west curses our uprising with failed intervention

Libyan demonstrators, flying the Kingdom of Libya flag, in the main square of Benghazi on 28 February 2011. Photograph: Tiago Petinga/EPA

Don't get me wrong. I, like most Libyans, believe that imposing a no-fly zone would be a good way to deal the regime a hard blow on many levels; it would cut the route of the mercenary convoys summoned from Africa, it would prevent Gaddafi from smuggling money and other assets, and most importantly it would stop the regime from bombing weapons arsenals that many eyewitnesses have maintained contain chemical weapons; something that would unleash an unimaginable catastrophe, not to mention that his planes might actually carry such weapons.
Nevertheless, one thing seems to have united Libyans of all stripes; any military intervention on the ground by any foreign force would be met – as Mustafa Abud Al Jeleil, the former justice minister and head of the opposition-formed interim government, said – with fighting much harsher than what the mercenaries themselves have unleashed.


Nor do I favour the possibility of a limited air strike for specific targets. This is a wholly popular revolution, the fuel to which has been the blood of the Libyan people. Libyans fought alone when western countries were busy ignoring their revolution at the beginning, fearful of their interests in Libya. This is why I'd like the revolution to be ended by those who first started it: the people of Libya.
Libya is united in popular revolution

Bloomberg wasn't speaking for the Libyan people, it was reporting their request.
If you read the quote properly they are asking for protection from excessive and brutal force without direct intervention on Libyan soil.
That's about what you're asking for isn't it?

For all that, I hope it works out well for your country and I also hope that any intervention is able to be carried out without inflaming the situation or the wider region.

Nope, they don't want intervention at all, outside of a no-fly zone, they even arrested those British commando's to make it clear.

 

[Samson]

Here's a question - What happens if we publicly pressure Gaddafi to go and he doesn't? What if he wins and stays in power?

What has the West gained and what has the West lost? If he wins and we have publicly tried to oust him, he becomes an enemy in the war on terror, potentially funding al-Qaeda and other groups. Seems to me, that would be a pretty big L for our side.

The people who are opposing him in the east tend to be more fundamentalist and more willing to support our enemies. We should be working covertly, but I can see a whole lot of downside if we play this wrongly.

If Gaddafi stays on now, that's likely to teach the other despots in the region that shooting and bombing as many proestors as possible is the way to stay in power.

What "other despots in the region?"

What a lot of hysterical crap.

All you anti-Obama bullshiters are using this as an example of Obama's "weakness." I'm no huge Obamot. However I'm not about to join some idiotic political effort to undermine with some ridiculous, highly theoretical prediction of an absurd "domino theory" (which never evolved after Eisenhower introduced the concept to describe communism in SE Asia).

 

[Trajan]

Here's a question - What happens if we publicly pressure Gaddafi to go and he doesn't? What if he wins and stays in power?

What has the West gained and what has the West lost? If he wins and we have publicly tried to oust him, he becomes an enemy in the war on terror, potentially funding al-Qaeda and other groups. Seems to me, that would be a pretty big L for our side.

The people who are opposing him in the east tend to be more fundamentalist and more willing to support our enemies. We should be working covertly, but I can see a whole lot of downside if we play this wrongly.

well said. I don't know who running the shop at the WH but, we have already passed the point of no return ala Quadaffi, if he ever trusts us again hes a fool.


Hillary back tracked today saying its very important this not be "a US led effort.."

 

[Samson]

Here's a question - What happens if we publicly pressure Gaddafi to go and he doesn't? What if he wins and stays in power?

What has the West gained and what has the West lost? If he wins and we have publicly tried to oust him, he becomes an enemy in the war on terror, potentially funding al-Qaeda and other groups. Seems to me, that would be a pretty big L for our side.

The people who are opposing him in the east tend to be more fundamentalist and more willing to support our enemies. We should be working covertly, but I can see a whole lot of downside if we play this wrongly.

well said. I don't know who running the shop at the WH but, we have already passed the point of no return ala Quadaffi, if he ever trusts us again hes a fool.


Hillary back tracked today saying its very important this not be "a US led effort.."

Why should Gaddaffi trust anyone? Why does he need to trust anyone outside of his very well paid staff?

You people need to stop listening to FNC and THINK FOR YOURSELF.

Gaddaffi is a fucking Billionaire who has had half a century to secure his position.