Obama expresses sympathy for victims but no apology in Hiroshima
- Thread starter JimH52
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Maybe after W apologizes for ignoring warnings before 9/11.
Steven_R
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Hiroshima was an industrial center and site of a major headquarters. Nagasaki was the site of naval facility and industrial center. They were legitimate targets.
Steven_R
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They wanted to surrender on their terms and the Allies weren't having it.
And lest we forget we were looking at nearly 1.5 million American casualties alone (and Japanese leaders considered 10 million Japanese civilian casualties a low number) in the event of the invasion kicking off.
Sure the Soviets got a light show, but the primary concern was ending the war before Operation Olympic if at all possible.
Rexx Taylor
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Fact: Everyone who plans to vote for Hillary cause they think shes so smart, still think that the Civil war was between the USA and France, right on the borders.
gipper
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Your reasoning is poor.
First, all the Japanese asked for by early 1945 was that the Americans NOT harm the emperor...that is their only condition...which Truman agreed to after he incinerated thousands of innocent people.
Second, it is total propaganda that an invasion would have resulted in the huge death tolls Truman tried to claim...after he incinerated all those innocent civilians. Japan was starving and most of their fighting men were either dead or not in the home islands. They have nothing to fight with, unless you think pitch forks are effective against the world's best military.
Third, there is no need to invade. Why did we need to occupy Japan? It is utterly ignorant.
Steven_R
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So the military targets weren't there? No shipyards, no factories, no headquarters?
They were picked because they had value and were largely untouched (so we could see just how effective the weapons really were). Tough titty for the civilians, but it isn't like the collateral damage in Tokyo didn't also get fucked over.
The lesson is if you're in a country at war, don't live near something likely to get hit.
They were picked because they had value and were largely untouched (so we could see just how effective the weapons really were). Tough titty for the civilians, but it isn't like the collateral damage in Tokyo didn't also get fucked over.
The lesson is if you're in a country at war, don't live near something likely to get hit.
NoTeaPartyPleez
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They're not purposeful liars. They are simply deluded and have highly developed capabilities for hearing what they want to hear and disregarding the rest...
(All lies and jest
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest.
"The Boxer" S&G)
Steven_R
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The Japanese were training civilians on how to attack landing craft and tanks with suicide bombs. And that's not counting the Japanese troops in the home islands (About 4 million uniformed troops). They may have been starving, but the Japanese were looking at a last stand.
depotoo
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Trying to surrender?? So you say they were trying to surrender in 1943, 44?
Let's take a look at some facts-
17 March 1943
Sixty civilians – German and Chinese missionaries and nuns – are being evacuated from several Pacific islands on the Japanese destroyer Akikaze (秋風) when the order is given, for reasons unknown, by the 8th Fleet Headquarters to execute them. All are shot and thrown overboard, including two children. Three hours later, the officers of the ship conduct a funeral ceremony for the deceased.
*** (Tanaka, 1996: 171-78)
September 1943
A total of 2,500 Australian and British prisoners of war have been interned in the Sandakan camp (Borneo) since the previous year. A resistance movement initiated in 1942 is discovered by the Japanese, and a series of escapes triggers a spiral of violence. Living conditions deteriorate, causing prisoners to die of disease and malnutrition. By the end of 1944, more than 400 of them are dead. In January 1945, any survivors fit to walk are taken on a forced march under extreme conditions, and the vast majority do not survive, while prisoners left at the Sandakan camp are executed by Japanese troops over several months. The survival rate is 0.24 percent: in August of the same year, only six prisoners remained alive.
*** (Rees, 2001: 81-91, Tanaka, 1996: 11-66, NIOD: IKA, 2010)
End-1943
Individual testimonies by Allied soldiers about acts of Japanese cannibalism start to emerge. One witness claims that over 100 prisoners were killed and eaten by starving groups of Japanese troops near Manokwari, New Guinea. The practice, for survival purposes (Japanese troops were abandoned on Pacific islands without food or means of subsistence), seems to have been extended to killing and eating locals as well as dead Japanese soldiers. An order issued by the Imperial chiefs of staff, dated 18 November 1944, confirms this hypothesis and states that cannibalism is punishable by execution, except if the flesh consumed is of the enemy.
** (Rees, 2001: 93-96, Tanaka, 1996: 120-29)
6 July 1944
The Americans invade Saipan. The next day marks one of the largest collective suicides in the war. In a counter-attack effort, all Japanese forces die on the battlefield. Of the 23,811 troops present, only 3 percent survive. Civilians living on Saipan and attempting to surrender to the enemy are killed on the spot. As a result, 10,000 Japanese, over 1,000 Koreans and 3,000 islanders and “comfort women” perish at the hands of Japanese troops, following Tokyo’s orders, which proclaims that Allied troops will rape, torture and kill any Japanese taken alive, and that it is therefore preferable to die than to surrender. While this could be seen as propaganda, it should be borne in mind that more than 12 percent of Japanese settlers were indeed slaughtered by Soviet troops in Manchuria in 1945.
*** (Bix, 2000: 475-76, Dower, 1986: 298, Takemae, 2002: 23)
September 1944 (the exact date of the beginning of the experiments is unknown, it may have been earlier)
Around 130 Allied prisoners serve as human guinea pigs for members of the Military Police in Rabaul and Ambon in Papua New Guinea until 1945. Some of them are starved in order to study the effects of malnutrition, while others are used for research on malaria or injected with various poisons. Only two survive.
** (Tanaka, 1996: 150-58)
25 October 1944
Vice-Admiral Ônishi Takijirô (大西瀧治郎) creates the first kamikaze corps (神風 divine winds, also known as “Special Attack Forces” 特別攻撃隊 tokubetsu kôgeki tai, often abbreviated as 特攻隊 tokkôtai) during the battle for the Philippines in order to slow the Allied victory in the Pacific. Young Japanese pilots or recruits, often presented as “volunteers”, accept or are forced aboard aircraft destined to crash into American warships, and are subsequently treated as martyrs (and symbols of purity) to the fatherland. It is now estimated that their success rate in hitting their targets ranged between 1 and 3 percent, with total casualties probably numbering around 5,000 pilots. In November of the same year, the “Marine Unit of the Chrysanthemum” (菊水隊 kiku sui tai), a reference to the symbol of the Imperial House, is the first of the suicide submarine squads (回天 kaiten), set up along the same principle, but with a lower death toll of 106 among the Japanese. On 18 January 1945, kamikaze attacks become official government policy. From then on, the entire civilian Japanese population is expected to sacrifice itself and die like the kamikaze pilots, as per the slogan “The shattering of the hundred million like a beautiful jewel” (一億玉砕 ichioku gyokusai). To facilitate the identification process, kamikaze units are often presented in pictures in the Japanese press between 1944 and 1945.
*** (Dower, 1986: 232-33, Hosaka, 2009: 93-98, Ienaga, 1978: 183-84, Nakamura, 2006: 304-311, Tokyo Shinbun, 2006: 86-93)
February 1945
While under siege by Allied forces in Manila (February-March 1945), 20,000 Japanese soldiers kill, rape and torture more than 1,000 Filipino civilians held as hostages, before engaging in another suicide counter-attack. Over a period of two months, another 100,000 die in street fights at the hands of Imperial troops.
*** (Dower, 1986: 44-45, Fujiwara A., 2001: 112-113, Takemae, 2002: 28-29)
9 March 1945
The Japanese ambassador to Indochina orders the immediate surrender of French forces in the territory. Subsequently, and after a delay in their surrender, French civilians as well as officers are tortured, executed and/or decapitated. A few days later, Imperial authorities announce an increase in the mobilisation of resources. Food has been requisitioned in Indochina since 1944 to feed Japanese troops; as of 1945, larger stocks of rice are confiscated. American bombings (starting in 1943) of local railway lines make the delivery of resources impossible across the territory. Outbreaks of cholera and typhus appear as a result of generalised starvation. The death toll for both events is unclear, but it is thought that between 400,000 and 2 million people died. The number of French people falling victim to the Japanese Army is not specified in the available references.
** (Dalloz, 1987: 62-66, Fujiwara A., 2001: 133, Van 1996: 286, 308-09)
26 March 1945
Allied troops land on the island of Tokashikijima (渡嘉敷島), marking the beginning of the invasion of Okinawa. Japanese civilians are ordered by the garrison commander to kill themselves rather than meet an even more terrible fate at the hands of the American troops, and grenades are distributed among the population. When these fail to explode, sickles, razors and stones are used. Two days later, the death toll amounts to 329. A month later, 1,200 children (aged 11 to 14) drafted into “defence battalions” by the Japanese Army, are either killed by the enemy or commit suicide in accordance with Imperial orders. Okinawans who speak the local dialect but not standard Japanese are executed as suspected spies. By the end of the war, it is estimated that one-third of the island’s population (150,000–160,000) has perished.
---##
Doesn't sound like surrender to me...
Japanese mass violence and its victims in the Fifteen Years War (1931-45) | Sciences Po Encyclopédie des violences de masse
Let's take a look at some facts-
17 March 1943
Sixty civilians – German and Chinese missionaries and nuns – are being evacuated from several Pacific islands on the Japanese destroyer Akikaze (秋風) when the order is given, for reasons unknown, by the 8th Fleet Headquarters to execute them. All are shot and thrown overboard, including two children. Three hours later, the officers of the ship conduct a funeral ceremony for the deceased.
*** (Tanaka, 1996: 171-78)
September 1943
A total of 2,500 Australian and British prisoners of war have been interned in the Sandakan camp (Borneo) since the previous year. A resistance movement initiated in 1942 is discovered by the Japanese, and a series of escapes triggers a spiral of violence. Living conditions deteriorate, causing prisoners to die of disease and malnutrition. By the end of 1944, more than 400 of them are dead. In January 1945, any survivors fit to walk are taken on a forced march under extreme conditions, and the vast majority do not survive, while prisoners left at the Sandakan camp are executed by Japanese troops over several months. The survival rate is 0.24 percent: in August of the same year, only six prisoners remained alive.
*** (Rees, 2001: 81-91, Tanaka, 1996: 11-66, NIOD: IKA, 2010)
End-1943
Individual testimonies by Allied soldiers about acts of Japanese cannibalism start to emerge. One witness claims that over 100 prisoners were killed and eaten by starving groups of Japanese troops near Manokwari, New Guinea. The practice, for survival purposes (Japanese troops were abandoned on Pacific islands without food or means of subsistence), seems to have been extended to killing and eating locals as well as dead Japanese soldiers. An order issued by the Imperial chiefs of staff, dated 18 November 1944, confirms this hypothesis and states that cannibalism is punishable by execution, except if the flesh consumed is of the enemy.
** (Rees, 2001: 93-96, Tanaka, 1996: 120-29)
6 July 1944
The Americans invade Saipan. The next day marks one of the largest collective suicides in the war. In a counter-attack effort, all Japanese forces die on the battlefield. Of the 23,811 troops present, only 3 percent survive. Civilians living on Saipan and attempting to surrender to the enemy are killed on the spot. As a result, 10,000 Japanese, over 1,000 Koreans and 3,000 islanders and “comfort women” perish at the hands of Japanese troops, following Tokyo’s orders, which proclaims that Allied troops will rape, torture and kill any Japanese taken alive, and that it is therefore preferable to die than to surrender. While this could be seen as propaganda, it should be borne in mind that more than 12 percent of Japanese settlers were indeed slaughtered by Soviet troops in Manchuria in 1945.
*** (Bix, 2000: 475-76, Dower, 1986: 298, Takemae, 2002: 23)
September 1944 (the exact date of the beginning of the experiments is unknown, it may have been earlier)
Around 130 Allied prisoners serve as human guinea pigs for members of the Military Police in Rabaul and Ambon in Papua New Guinea until 1945. Some of them are starved in order to study the effects of malnutrition, while others are used for research on malaria or injected with various poisons. Only two survive.
** (Tanaka, 1996: 150-58)
25 October 1944
Vice-Admiral Ônishi Takijirô (大西瀧治郎) creates the first kamikaze corps (神風 divine winds, also known as “Special Attack Forces” 特別攻撃隊 tokubetsu kôgeki tai, often abbreviated as 特攻隊 tokkôtai) during the battle for the Philippines in order to slow the Allied victory in the Pacific. Young Japanese pilots or recruits, often presented as “volunteers”, accept or are forced aboard aircraft destined to crash into American warships, and are subsequently treated as martyrs (and symbols of purity) to the fatherland. It is now estimated that their success rate in hitting their targets ranged between 1 and 3 percent, with total casualties probably numbering around 5,000 pilots. In November of the same year, the “Marine Unit of the Chrysanthemum” (菊水隊 kiku sui tai), a reference to the symbol of the Imperial House, is the first of the suicide submarine squads (回天 kaiten), set up along the same principle, but with a lower death toll of 106 among the Japanese. On 18 January 1945, kamikaze attacks become official government policy. From then on, the entire civilian Japanese population is expected to sacrifice itself and die like the kamikaze pilots, as per the slogan “The shattering of the hundred million like a beautiful jewel” (一億玉砕 ichioku gyokusai). To facilitate the identification process, kamikaze units are often presented in pictures in the Japanese press between 1944 and 1945.
*** (Dower, 1986: 232-33, Hosaka, 2009: 93-98, Ienaga, 1978: 183-84, Nakamura, 2006: 304-311, Tokyo Shinbun, 2006: 86-93)
February 1945
While under siege by Allied forces in Manila (February-March 1945), 20,000 Japanese soldiers kill, rape and torture more than 1,000 Filipino civilians held as hostages, before engaging in another suicide counter-attack. Over a period of two months, another 100,000 die in street fights at the hands of Imperial troops.
*** (Dower, 1986: 44-45, Fujiwara A., 2001: 112-113, Takemae, 2002: 28-29)
9 March 1945
The Japanese ambassador to Indochina orders the immediate surrender of French forces in the territory. Subsequently, and after a delay in their surrender, French civilians as well as officers are tortured, executed and/or decapitated. A few days later, Imperial authorities announce an increase in the mobilisation of resources. Food has been requisitioned in Indochina since 1944 to feed Japanese troops; as of 1945, larger stocks of rice are confiscated. American bombings (starting in 1943) of local railway lines make the delivery of resources impossible across the territory. Outbreaks of cholera and typhus appear as a result of generalised starvation. The death toll for both events is unclear, but it is thought that between 400,000 and 2 million people died. The number of French people falling victim to the Japanese Army is not specified in the available references.
** (Dalloz, 1987: 62-66, Fujiwara A., 2001: 133, Van 1996: 286, 308-09)
26 March 1945
Allied troops land on the island of Tokashikijima (渡嘉敷島), marking the beginning of the invasion of Okinawa. Japanese civilians are ordered by the garrison commander to kill themselves rather than meet an even more terrible fate at the hands of the American troops, and grenades are distributed among the population. When these fail to explode, sickles, razors and stones are used. Two days later, the death toll amounts to 329. A month later, 1,200 children (aged 11 to 14) drafted into “defence battalions” by the Japanese Army, are either killed by the enemy or commit suicide in accordance with Imperial orders. Okinawans who speak the local dialect but not standard Japanese are executed as suspected spies. By the end of the war, it is estimated that one-third of the island’s population (150,000–160,000) has perished.
---##
Doesn't sound like surrender to me...
Japanese mass violence and its victims in the Fifteen Years War (1931-45) | Sciences Po Encyclopédie des violences de masse
gipper
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There was no need to invade. Japan was done. The US military controlled the sea and air over the entire nation. So, your post in meaningless and mostly just might to deceive.
IndependantAce
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I'm not sure an apology is in order considering the Japanese had planned on making every man, woman, and child fight to the death, and use of the nuclear bombs intimidated them into surrendering and saving more lives in the long run.
gipper
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Means nothing. I do not dispute that the Japanese military was crazy and committed numerous atrocities, for which they deserved to die, but Japanese civilians did not.
Japan made overtures to the US as early as late 1943 to surrender. FDR told them to **** off. Thus leading to the deaths of thousands of Americans and Japanese needlessly.
Timmy
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Righties go with the old nazi propaganda. "If u say a lie enough , it becomes the truth ."
They can't quote any apology because obama hasn't apologized .
BluesLegend
Diamond Member
Projection ^^^ of epic proportions.
Contumacious
Radical Freedom
I consider it an apology.
FDR manipulated Hirohito into attacking us so Americans would stop demanding NEUTRALITY. The stupid ************ got way with murder. No US president has the authority to kill innocent people en mass for any reason.
For shame.
Timmy
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How about an example of one of these "apologies ".
depotoo
Diamond Member
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Was the Emperor ready to surrender? Absolutely not, even after the Potsdam Declaration in July of 45, the Emperor decided it would not capitulate. When they refused to surrender the bombs were dropped. Finally, shortly after the second bomb drop, on Aug 15, 1945 Emperor Hirohito then surrendered.
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