Obama demands/gets $20Billion + public apology from BP

[ConHog]

I'm STILL... S T I L L .... waiting for you to prove the negligence. I don't want your list of could be's. You talk a big game, like you know everything. But you don't. You speculate just like every other schmuck on here.

BP has already admitted negligence, not only by agreeing to pay, but also explicitly:
Field Notes - BP exec admits clean-up technology is dated
"BP acknowledged in a recent letter that it has routinely failed to comply with a federal regulation requiring drilling companies to certify that their blowout preventers are able to block a runaway well."
FT.com / World - BP ?not prepared? for deep-water spill
BP Admits to Being “Not Prepared” (”Low Odds” Fallacy Edition) naked capitalism

They literally signed the name of a man who was dead for five years as the person over-viewing their disaster plan. I REPEAT: THE MAN IN CHARGE OF THEIR DISASTER PLAN HAS NOT BEEN ALIVE FOR YEARS.

What more proof do you want?

Well, that settles it then I guess...they should call off the investigation.

The investigations serve multiple purposes, including but not limited to exploring what happened for prevention, diagnoses, and possible ways to fix it.


Let's face it: Sangria completely proved you wrong on the $75M cap by showing the exception to the rule. You didn't even acknowledge that exception as true! For the first few responses you were pretending Sanga was just making it up! Now you acknowledge it's true and are so ignorant as to believe there's no negligence? Are you blind? Do you not actually know anything about how this happened in the first place?

Actually, at this point, we don't. That's why an investigation is needed. Nice that Obama declared them guilty in the court of public opinion before an investigation has even begun.

Of course he did the same thing early in his Administration when he declared that WHEN a particular terror suspect was found guilty he would be executed, not if but WHEN.

Hell, I don't know what the big deal is anyway, we don't need no CON hell the guy who wrote it's been dead for 200 years, how neglectful of him to die after writing something.

 

[txlonghorn]

I'm STILL... S T I L L .... waiting for you to prove the negligence. I don't want your list of could be's. You talk a big game, like you know everything. But you don't. You speculate just like every other schmuck on here.

BP has already admitted negligence, not only by agreeing to pay, but also explicitly:
Field Notes - BP exec admits clean-up technology is dated
"BP acknowledged in a recent letter that it has routinely failed to comply with a federal regulation requiring drilling companies to certify that their blowout preventers are able to block a runaway well."
FT.com / World - BP ?not prepared? for deep-water spill
BP Admits to Being “Not Prepared” (”Low Odds” Fallacy Edition) naked capitalism

They literally signed the name of a man who was dead for five years as the person over-viewing their disaster plan. I REPEAT: THE MAN IN CHARGE OF THEIR DISASTER PLAN HAS NOT BEEN ALIVE FOR YEARS.

What more proof do you want?

Well, that settles it then I guess...they should call off the investigation.

The investigations serve multiple purposes, including but not limited to exploring what happened for prevention, diagnoses, and possible ways to fix it.


Let's face it: Sangria completely proved you wrong on the $75M cap by showing the exception to the rule. You didn't even acknowledge that exception as true! For the first few responses you were pretending Sanga was just making it up! Now you acknowledge it's true and are so ignorant as to believe there's no negligence? Are you blind? Do you not actually know anything about how this happened in the first place?

Sure I did...I even said the he would be right of the negligence is proven. I haven't seen that headline yet...have you? Ok...they admit they screwed up. It's probable that negligence will be proven. I'm not arguing that point. AND I NEVER HAVE!!! I never pretended he made anything up. I have been asking him for the official statement from the investigation that isolates BP as the ONLY party that is negligent if that is the case.

You jackasses are so consumed with making people admit a bunch of bullshit that you MISSED the real point of the argument.

I hope you get what you want. BP out of business.... forever and ever amen. That will be the best for all involved. Right?

We don't need to wait on the verdict. Why should we wait a few weeks to see if we can find out EXACTLY what happened and why...and most importantly HOW MANY OF THESE COMPANIES ARE AT FAULT. Just take BP's admissions and excuse all other parties and bury the 4th largest employer in the world. Sounds like a good enough reason to push on through.

God forbid we wait on something as insignificant as a legitimate investigation.

What if the 20 billion isn't enough? I guess they'll just drag BP back into the principle's office and DEMAND another 20 Billion and another apology for good measure.

No...I'm sorry, I don't except your accusation that I ignored anything or that Sangha proved me wrong at ANY point. I'm just trying to make the point that the facts have YET to be proven and when they are, real justice and restitution can be delivered.

Now, spin that

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Sure I did...I even said the he would be right of the negligence is proven. I haven't seen that headline yet...have you? Ok...they admit they screwed up.

Well yes but they admitted they screwed up because of negligence. You seem to continually miss that point. I showed you the headlines and quotes that directly state that. The only reason I can think of that explains why you don't understand this simple concept is that you don't actually understand the meaning of the word negligence.

You jackasses are so consumed with making people admit a bunch of bullshit that you MISSED the real point of the argument.

Real point of the thread: BP is paying $20B due to admitted negligence. They are essentially settling the matter out of court, much as anyone else can for an impending or ongoing legal issue. This seems to be the point that is being discussed, so what part is being missed?

I hope you get what you want. BP out of business.... forever and ever amen. That will be the best for all involved. Right?

Who said I want that? I'm just stating the facts which you seem to be ignoring and claiming aren't true. You were wrong before. You are wrong now. It has nothing to do with wanting BP out of business. Deal with it.

We don't need to wait on the verdict. Why should we wait a few weeks to see if we can find out EXACTLY what happened and why...and most importantly HOW MANY OF THESE COMPANIES ARE AT FAULT. Just take BP's admissions and excuse all other parties and bury the 4th largest employer in the world. Sounds like a good enough reason to push on through.

Except that's NOT what's happening. The investigation is continuing. BP's admittance does not prevent us from learning from the error and holding all companies accountable. What evidence do you have that the investigation is being called off just because BP will pay what was asked?

You continue to fly off the handle in a huffy temper tantrum because you don't like people pointing out that you're wrong. In all actuality, you have demonstrated throughout this thread to have a poor grasp of the legal system, including the laws that pertain to this matter, exceptions to the $75M cap, what constitutes negligence, and how any entity can settle a matter out of court.

 

[ConHog]

Sure I did...I even said the he would be right of the negligence is proven. I haven't seen that headline yet...have you? Ok...they admit they screwed up.

Well yes but they admitted they screwed up because of negligence. You seem to continually miss that point. I showed you the headlines and quotes that directly state that. The only reason I can think of that explains why you don't understand this simple concept is that you don't actually understand the meaning of the word negligence.

You jackasses are so consumed with making people admit a bunch of bullshit that you MISSED the real point of the argument.

Real point of the thread: BP is paying $20B due to admitted negligence. They are essentially settling the matter out of court, much as anyone else can for an impending or ongoing legal issue. This seems to be the point that is being discussed, so what part is being missed?

I hope you get what you want. BP out of business.... forever and ever amen. That will be the best for all involved. Right?

Who said I want that? I'm just stating the facts which you seem to be ignoring and claiming aren't true. You were wrong before. You are wrong now. It has nothing to do with wanting BP out of business. Deal with it.

We don't need to wait on the verdict. Why should we wait a few weeks to see if we can find out EXACTLY what happened and why...and most importantly HOW MANY OF THESE COMPANIES ARE AT FAULT. Just take BP's admissions and excuse all other parties and bury the 4th largest employer in the world. Sounds like a good enough reason to push on through.

Except that's NOT what's happening. The investigation is continuing. BP's admittance does not prevent us from learning from the error and holding all companies accountable. What evidence do you have that the investigation is being called off just because BP will pay what was asked?

You continue to fly off the handle in a huffy temper tantrum because you don't like people pointing out that you're wrong. In all actuality, you have demonstrated throughout this thread to have a poor grasp of the legal system, including the laws that pertain to this matter, exceptions to the $75M cap, what constitutes negligence, and how any entity can settle a matter out of court.

You're entire premise rests on that point, BUT if this case were settled

A) The investigation wouldn't continue

and

B) BP would know exactly how much they owed. Not be told that the $20B is just a down payment.

 

[sangha]

I'm STILL... S T I L L .... waiting for you to prove the negligence. I don't want your list of could be's. You talk a big game, like you know everything. But you don't. You speculate just like every other schmuck on here.

BP has already admitted negligence, not only by agreeing to pay, but also explicitly:
Field Notes - BP exec admits clean-up technology is dated
"BP acknowledged in a recent letter that it has routinely failed to comply with a federal regulation requiring drilling companies to certify that their blowout preventers are able to block a runaway well."
FT.com / World - BP ?not prepared? for deep-water spill
BP Admits to Being “Not Prepared” (”Low Odds” Fallacy Edition) naked capitalism

They literally signed the name of a man who was dead for five years as the person over-viewing their disaster plan. I REPEAT: THE MAN IN CHARGE OF THEIR DISASTER PLAN HAS NOT BEEN ALIVE FOR YEARS.

What more proof do you want?

Well, that settles it then I guess...they should call off the investigation.

The investigations serve multiple purposes, including but not limited to exploring what happened for prevention, diagnoses, and possible ways to fix it.


Let's face it: Sangria completely proved you wrong on the $75M cap by showing the exception to the rule. You didn't even acknowledge that exception as true! For the first few responses you were pretending Sanga was just making it up! Now you acknowledge it's true and are so ignorant as to believe there's no negligence? Are you blind? Do you not actually know anything about how this happened in the first place?

Here's where the morons bring up "innocent until proven guilty" even though I've already proven it doesn't' apply in a civil action such as this.

 

[sangha]

I'm STILL... S T I L L .... waiting for you to prove the negligence. I don't want your list of could be's. You talk a big game, like you know everything. But you don't. You speculate just like every other schmuck on here.

BP has already admitted negligence, not only by agreeing to pay, but also explicitly:
Field Notes - BP exec admits clean-up technology is dated
"BP acknowledged in a recent letter that it has routinely failed to comply with a federal regulation requiring drilling companies to certify that their blowout preventers are able to block a runaway well."
FT.com / World - BP ?not prepared? for deep-water spill
BP Admits to Being “Not Prepared” (”Low Odds” Fallacy Edition) naked capitalism

They literally signed the name of a man who was dead for five years as the person over-viewing their disaster plan. I REPEAT: THE MAN IN CHARGE OF THEIR DISASTER PLAN HAS NOT BEEN ALIVE FOR YEARS.

What more proof do you want?

Well, that settles it then I guess...they should call off the investigation.

The investigations serve multiple purposes, including but not limited to exploring what happened for prevention, diagnoses, and possible ways to fix it.


Let's face it: Sangria completely proved you wrong on the $75M cap by showing the exception to the rule. You didn't even acknowledge that exception as true! For the first few responses you were pretending Sanga was just making it up! Now you acknowledge it's true and are so ignorant as to believe there's no negligence? Are you blind? Do you not actually know anything about how this happened in the first place?

Actually, at this point, we don't. That's why an investigation is needed.

At this, I will repeat what I said in my previous post

Here's where the morons bring up "innocent until proven guilty" even though I've already proven it doesn't apply in a civil action such as this.

 

[ConHog]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah life without sangha is GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD

 

[sangha]

Sure I did...I even said the he would be right of the negligence is proven. I haven't seen that headline yet...have you? Ok...they admit they screwed up.

Well yes but they admitted they screwed up because of negligence. You seem to continually miss that point. I showed you the headlines and quotes that directly state that. The only reason I can think of that explains why you don't understand this simple concept is that you don't actually understand the meaning of the word negligence.


Real point of the thread: BP is paying $20B due to admitted negligence. They are essentially settling the matter out of court, much as anyone else can for an impending or ongoing legal issue. This seems to be the point that is being discussed, so what part is being missed?


Who said I want that? I'm just stating the facts which you seem to be ignoring and claiming aren't true. You were wrong before. You are wrong now. It has nothing to do with wanting BP out of business. Deal with it.

We don't need to wait on the verdict. Why should we wait a few weeks to see if we can find out EXACTLY what happened and why...and most importantly HOW MANY OF THESE COMPANIES ARE AT FAULT. Just take BP's admissions and excuse all other parties and bury the 4th largest employer in the world. Sounds like a good enough reason to push on through.

Except that's NOT what's happening. The investigation is continuing. BP's admittance does not prevent us from learning from the error and holding all companies accountable. What evidence do you have that the investigation is being called off just because BP will pay what was asked?

You continue to fly off the handle in a huffy temper tantrum because you don't like people pointing out that you're wrong. In all actuality, you have demonstrated throughout this thread to have a poor grasp of the legal system, including the laws that pertain to this matter, exceptions to the $75M cap, what constitutes negligence, and how any entity can settle a matter out of court.

You're entire premise rests on that point, BUT if this case were settled

A) The investigation wouldn't continue

and

B) BP would know exactly how much they owed. Not be told that the $20B is just a down payment.

It's no surprise that the moron who thinks "innocent until proven guilty" applies to civil cases would think that any investigation would end simply because BP put money into escrow. It should conjobs ignorance of the law extends to the use of escrow accounts.

Escrow accounts are set up when all the facts are yet to be known, and the actual amount due is still to be determined. The idiot doesn't realize that if the facts are known, and the damages assessed, there would be no need for an escrow account.

 

[sangha]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah life without sangha is GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD

For some odd reason, the moron thinks this is "ignoring" me.

It's obvious he can't get me off his mind.

Pleasant dreams, cupcake

 

[SmarterThanHick]

You're entire premise rests on that point, BUT if this case were settled

A) The investigation wouldn't continue

and

B) BP would know exactly how much they owed. Not be told that the $20B is just a down payment.

Who said the case is settled? It just means an agreement was reached regarding the fiscal responsibility. The "case" extends to environmental effects, prevention, mechanisms, and cleanup, to name a few. Everything else is still under review. What reasoning do you have to believe the investigation would end just because a financial agreement was made? Do you really believe the only reason an investigation happened in the first place was to find out how much money was owed? Please tell me you're not that short sighted.

 

[sangha]

You're entire premise rests on that point, BUT if this case were settled

A) The investigation wouldn't continue

and

B) BP would know exactly how much they owed. Not be told that the $20B is just a down payment.

Who said the case is settled? It just means an agreement was reached regarding the fiscal responsibility. The "case" extends to environmental effects, prevention, mechanisms, and cleanup, to name a few. Everything else is still under review. What reasoning do you have to believe the investigation would end just because a financial agreement was made? Do you really believe the only reason an investigation happened in the first place was to find out how much money was owed? Please tell me you're not that short sighted.

My mother used to say "You can only be so smart, but stupid knows no limits"

conjob proves that every day. Don't misunderestimate his stupidity

 

[ConHog]

You're entire premise rests on that point, BUT if this case were settled

A) The investigation wouldn't continue

and

B) BP would know exactly how much they owed. Not be told that the $20B is just a down payment.

Who said the case is settled? It just means an agreement was reached regarding the fiscal responsibility. The "case" extends to environmental effects, prevention, mechanisms, and cleanup, to name a few. Everything else is still under review. What reasoning do you have to believe the investigation would end just because a financial agreement was made? Do you really believe the only reason an investigation happened in the first place was to find out how much money was owed? Please tell me you're not that short sighted.

By your very words you said the case was settled by BP negotiating a settlement. you can't have it both ways.

 

[txlonghorn]

Sure I did...I even said the he would be right of the negligence is proven. I haven't seen that headline yet...have you? Ok...they admit they screwed up.

Well yes but they admitted they screwed up because of negligence. You seem to continually miss that point. I showed you the headlines and quotes that directly state that. The only reason I can think of that explains why you don't understand this simple concept is that you don't actually understand the meaning of the word negligence.

No...I understand it completely. What I don't understand is your insistence on accepting that until the investigation is completed, BP may not have committed ALL the negligence. Or may not have been GROSSLY negligent. It's most likely that it will be determined that they did. And then a sentence should be handed down. Once again...I have yet to miss any point that was made. It's my point that is being ignored. Have you ever heard of a guy being sentenced to twenty years or death or any other major sentence before the jury returned a verdict? This is my point. And it's been my ONLY point all along.

You jackasses are so consumed with making people admit a bunch of bullshit that you MISSED the real point of the argument.

Real point of the thread: BP is paying $20B due to admitted negligence. They are essentially settling the matter out of court, much as anyone else can for an impending or ongoing legal issue. This seems to be the point that is being discussed, so what part is being missed?

Are we gonna split hairs again? So stupid...anyway, I didn't use the word "THREAD". I used the word "ARGUMENT". Simply because my point was within my argument with Sangha...which apparently has been handed off to you. I guess Sangha can't hanga....LOL...had to do it. As I said before, yes BP is obviously pleading guilty...why else would they pay almost a billion in clean up already and then agree to a 20 billion dollar trust fund? But what happens when the negligence is FINALLY proven...and by that I mean EXACTLY what caused the explosion and all that followed and who were the parties involved? What happens when Obama rips through that first 20 billion? Will they just start picking off Tansociean and Halliburton? Or will they just go back to the deep money well of BP and hit 'em again? Its' just a question.

I hope you get what you want. BP out of business.... forever and ever amen. That will be the best for all involved. Right?

Who said I want that? I'm just stating the facts which you seem to be ignoring and claiming aren't true. You were wrong before. You are wrong now. It has nothing to do with wanting BP out of business. Deal with it.

I'm ignoring facts again....can you show me where? Here's a fact...based on your logic of "future speculation"...If this administration continues to dole out multi billion dollar fines before the FACTS have been established...and they haven't, then the chances of BP remaining balanced and viable are slim. You support this action apparently, so, my deduction would appear to be correct. You want it. Deal with that.

We don't need to wait on the verdict. Why should we wait a few weeks to see if we can find out EXACTLY what happened and why...and most importantly HOW MANY OF THESE COMPANIES ARE AT FAULT. Just take BP's admissions and excuse all other parties and bury the 4th largest employer in the world. Sounds like a good enough reason to push on through.

Except that's NOT what's happening. The investigation is continuing. BP's admittance does not prevent us from learning from the error and holding all companies accountable. What evidence do you have that the investigation is being called off just because BP will pay what was asked?

Yes...I know that the investigation is continuing...damn...it SHOULD continue...as it is..and when it's over, then let BO get all he can out of ALL parties. This isolation of BP is unnecessary. And premature. It's a waste of time if you want to get technical about it. They will just have to go through all of this again AFTER the facts have been concluded as to what happened, when it happened, who was responsible and why. I never said the investigation was being called off. Unless you failed to recognize sarcasm...which seems to be obvious.

You continue to fly off the handle in a huffy temper tantrum because you don't like people pointing out that you're wrong. In all actuality, you have demonstrated throughout this thread to have a poor grasp of the legal system, including the laws that pertain to this matter, exceptions to the $75M cap, what constitutes negligence, and how any entity can settle a matter out of court.

My "huffy temper" is your problem...not mine. If it bothers you that much, then go away and stop butting into my argument with someone else. I have demonstrated as much knowledge on this matter and all legal aspects of it as you or anyone else has. I'm not even going to address my acknowledgment of the exceptions clause AGAIN...and if they settle this matter out of court, then you can claim a victory over the small part of this discussion. But they won't. And when I'm proven right, I won't expect any apology...I know better.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

By your very words you said the case was settled by BP negotiating a settlement. you can't have it both ways.

wow. I really didn't think you were that dumb. The FINANCIAL case was settled. Everything else is still ongoing. Are you really that dense?

 

[ConHog]

By your very words you said the case was settled by BP negotiating a settlement. you can't have it both ways.

wow. I really didn't think you were that dumb. The FINANCIAL case was settled. Everything else is still ongoing. Are you really that dense?

WHAT? No the financial case wasn't settled, When a case is settled, that means one party has been told you owe this much and not some open ended, well we might want more.............................

 

[SmarterThanHick]

My "huffy temper" is your problem...not mine. If it bothers you that much, then go away and stop butting into my argument with someone else. I have demonstrated as much knowledge on this matter and all legal aspects of it as you or anyone else has. I'm not even going to address my acknowledgment of the exceptions clause AGAIN...and if they settle this matter out of court, then you can claim a victory over the small part of this discussion. But they won't. And when I'm proven right, I won't expect any apology...I know better.

So in other words you have absolutely no way to prove anything I said wrong, and are resorting to "YOU'LL SEE! AT SOME POINT! I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME!". Useless. Support what you say for a change.

awesome. BP already agreed to pay the $20B. I don't see how you can say "IF they settled this matter out of court". Do you think BP will just back out and not pay now? The financial matter appears to be agreed upon and settled for the time being. Even if new evidence raised the number, I still doubt BP would go to court.

 

[GWV5903]

This is nothing more than another campaign ad for Obuumer.....

The law is clear and the belief BP was going to leave 1/3rd of their business behind to side step this disaster is ludicrous, no one would give them the time of day again.....

The Oil Pollution Act of 1990 (OPA) sets out exactly what BP and anyone else who caused the spill have to pay for. Under 33 U.S.C. § 2702, BP is responsible for all removal costs; all injuries to real or personal property; damages for loss of subsistence use of natural resources; loss of profits or impairment of earning capacity due to injury, destruction, or loss of natural resources or real or personal property; and damages for the cost of providing increased public services by any state. These categories of damages would cover all of the costs that everyone has been talking about…

 

[SmarterThanHick]

It's amazing that half of you nutjobs blame Obama for doing the wrong thing, and the other half blame him for using this as a political move for doing the right thing. No matter what he does, good or bad, you people seem to only see it as an attempt for personal gain. Can the man do nothing without such speculation? This is ridiculous.

 

[ConHog]

It's amazing that half of you nutjobs blame Obama for doing the wrong thing, and the other half blame him for using this as a political move for doing the right thing. No matter what he does, good or bad, you people seem to only see it as an attempt for personal gain. Can the man do nothing without such speculation? This is ridiculous.

NO ONE thinks that, we all KNOW he did the wrong thing, and you keep trying to spin it into saying we believe BP shouldn't be responsible for the cost of this spill, but in reality we are all saying that you don't have a law in place and just ignore that law because you feel that at some point in the future it will be shown that negligence on the part of BP caused this accident.

Let me ask you, what if an investigation determines that the real neglect was Transocean's? What then because the OPA clearly reads in that case that BP is not liable, will they get their $20B from the USG? Not bloody likely, and THAT is why you actually have an investigation before you determine someone is guilty of neglect.

 

[Zona]

Not seeing where Obama got anything that wasn't already promised by BP. BP said they would pay for the spill. BP has already apoligized.

Just more WH spin to try to change Obama's poor image.

Exactly.

The WH is merely grandstanding in order to ensure that Obama is not a one term Prez.

.

I heard they planned this because they were thinking about his second term....

Didn't say it huh?

Shut the fuck up you lying asshole

Learn to read. I said there is no law which caps liability at 75mm and I was right. In cases of negligence, there is no cap.

Who determined that the accident was an act of negligence?

Accident? Who determined negligence? I would say all the violations bp had PRIOR to this. Do you know they had more violations than pretty much every other oil business anywhere near their size....?

wow. Accident....lol

Leave BP alone! BP, from the gulf, WE apologize! Sorry, our bad. Its our fault you are losing all that oil!