Its the same thing every election on both sides, but i am prone to believe alot of the things about obama and can see it pretty clearly. It doesn't take a crystal ball to see the destruction obama is doing to all of us, even tho there are some people who have fallen prety to the con artist obama and his manipulation with his power of words on people. I don't like anyone in washington right now.....we need to clean house and be careful who we put there next time around.
Obama Campaign Ad....A lie.
- Thread starter Listening
- Start date
I am sure he had something to do with it going under?
Luddly Neddite
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Yeah, and they're all right wingers who can't think for themselves.
The ad is factual. Something the right does not recognize.
hortysir
In Memorial of 47
I'm talking from Feb '09 to Today, there is a Net LOSS of 1 million jobs.
I could post several links supporting it, but I'm sure you could post several discrediting it.
That's because this administration counts jobs differently than anyone in history.
Luddly Neddite
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Mitt left Bain long before they actually saved any companies.
The gypsum factory that Mitt hung his sign on ("Obama isn't working") was closed by Bush.
If you want more Mitt lies, and I know you don't!, just check the url in my sig. (**wink**wink**)
drsmith1072
Senior Member
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says the cowardly hack who runs away from content that you can't counter.
You even tried to use what you admitted was a "rumor" to validate one of your arguments and you think that make me look bad?? LOL
Insulting me does nothing to validate your arguments wither but as per usual when an argument gets countered, ignore the message and attack the messenger.
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drsmith1072
Senior Member
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If you have the sources them post them please.
Can you show how he counts them differently than anyone in history?
francoHFW
Diamond Member
All TRUE, and W wass great!! If you like a TOTAL catastrophe...Just what we need, a W clone, but with NO personality...Pub dupes!
hortysir
In Memorial of 47
George W. Bush, R-Texas, 2001-2009
First term: +7,000 jobs
Second term: +1.3 million jobs
George W. Bush Total: 1.31 million jobs
Barack Obama, D-Ill., 2009-Present
Partial term: -1.390 million jobs lost through April 2011.
Obama Total to date: -1.390 million jobs lost.
US Presidential Election 2012: It Could Be All About Jobs | all - International Business Times
And to answer the last question:
What Is the REAL National U.S. Unemployment Rate
saveliberty
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The way unemployment is counted, these ARE ALL Obama's people. Someone who has been out of work for over three years would, for the most part, have fallen off the list of unemployed.
Listening
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O.K.
So we can recount.
The Obama campaign runs an ad against Mitt Romney using the closure of the GST plant in Kansas City as it's foundation. In the ad, it clearly stated that Romeny screwed the company and then took off with profits leaving 750 people out of work.
What has been pointed out is that:
Bain took over GTS in 1993. (this has been reported and can probably be trusted)
The site was a dump (this is an observation.....calling something a dump is subjective).
Bain spent over 100 million on the plant (this was Bains claim as reported).
The site did undergo some significant renovation (an observation).
Bain held onto the company going into a small recession.
Romney exits Bain operations in 1999 to take over the Olympics.
GST goes bankrupt in 2001.
A lot of other steel plants went bankrupt in 2001.
Neither Romney nor anyone at Bain (that I have read about) has been prosecuted with respect to any wrongdoing at Bain in regard to GST.
Bain helped get another steel company started in 1994. That company grew and Bain sold off it's part of that company in 2000. Here is from an article:
"It normally takes two years to make a steel plant profitable," Busse recalled. "We didn't have two years. We were running out of money."
GE Capital (GE) was interested, but CEO Jack Welch told Busse he didn't want to fund the whole thing because it would be the biggest gamble GE had ever taken on a startup.
Welch brought in Bain, which investigated the project. Busse said he met with Romney. Bain liked the deal and invested $18.3 million.
"Their general strategy is to exit early," Busse said. Bain later sold its stake for $104 million, according to a 2000 prospectus from Deutsche Bank.
The private equity firm should have held on longer. Steel Dynamics went public in November 1996, finishing its first month of trading with a split-adjusted price of 4.56 a share. The stock reached a peak of 40.92 in June 2008 for a gain of 797%.
***************************************
Now, the GTS deal is being called a corporate raid by some on this board. Corporate raiders usually buy companies, hack them to bits and sell them off. They are harvesting. Holding onto a company for a long time isn't the trademark of a corporate raider.
If you look at Bain's returns on Steel Dynamics, you see they invested 18 million to make 104 million. That is the kind of return that these firms look for.
Here is a little tidbit:
Bain Capital is a financial services company that engages in investment management. Venture capital typically involves buying a small stake in a promising start-up company and trying to help it grow and thrive. Private equity deals focus on leveraged buyouts of companies that are under heavy debt or near bankruptcy, and restructuring the troubled company’s costs, operations, and assets, which can involve anything from streamlining a company’s decision-making process to cutting some jobs, while saving others.
The Wall Street Journal did an excellent piece researching Bain’s record under Romney’s tenure. The report found that Bain recorded roughly 50% to 80% annual gains on 77 deals while Romney was CEO from 1984-1999, which experts said was among the best track records for buyout firms during that era. Romney himself earned the bulk of his $200 million-$250 million fortune during these years. So not only did he do his job and do it well, but he was pretty successful at it too.
Now this image perpetrated by the Democrats of a Gordon Gekko-type corporate raider that liquidated companies for all they were worth and screwed “the little people” over is purely absurd. Romney and Bain were anything but. They were a thoroughly respectable investment management firm that successfully discharged its responsibility of earning high returns for its investors by deploying capital in companies privately rather than by buying shares in the public market.
Setting the Record Straight On the Bain of Mitt Romney's 2012 Campaign
On the other side.....they invest in GST (supposedly over 100 million which they apparently borrowed......in an effort to upgrade the plant) and they make back 16 million (they made 12 million through the early years, as I understand it and made 4.5 million in fees...that isn't profit). And the company goes bankrupt.
But, somehow they should have augered into bankruptcy with GST. Hint: that is how good businessmen stay good businessmen. They don't ride the bomb to the target.
One question that has been raised is the pension fund:
This from an anti-Romney blog:
[Romney’s] supporters say the pension gap at the Kansas City mill was an unforeseen consequence of a falling stock market and adverse market conditions. But records show that the mill’s Bain-backed management was confronted several times about the fund’s shortfall, which, in the end, required an infusion of funds from the federal Pension Benefits Guarantee Corp.
********************************
To which I say so what ?
If Bain did something illegal (like stole the pension fund), then there should be no problem getting it fixed. A shortfall for a company that had been around for how long ? (most of those poor steelworkers in the ads show 30+ years experience.....did that shortfall show up on Bain's watch ?).
So, this is provide some kind of recap. I'll try to look it over to see what I left out.
So we can recount.
The Obama campaign runs an ad against Mitt Romney using the closure of the GST plant in Kansas City as it's foundation. In the ad, it clearly stated that Romeny screwed the company and then took off with profits leaving 750 people out of work.
What has been pointed out is that:
Bain took over GTS in 1993. (this has been reported and can probably be trusted)
The site was a dump (this is an observation.....calling something a dump is subjective).
Bain spent over 100 million on the plant (this was Bains claim as reported).
The site did undergo some significant renovation (an observation).
Bain held onto the company going into a small recession.
Romney exits Bain operations in 1999 to take over the Olympics.
GST goes bankrupt in 2001.
A lot of other steel plants went bankrupt in 2001.
Neither Romney nor anyone at Bain (that I have read about) has been prosecuted with respect to any wrongdoing at Bain in regard to GST.
Bain helped get another steel company started in 1994. That company grew and Bain sold off it's part of that company in 2000. Here is from an article:
"It normally takes two years to make a steel plant profitable," Busse recalled. "We didn't have two years. We were running out of money."
GE Capital (GE) was interested, but CEO Jack Welch told Busse he didn't want to fund the whole thing because it would be the biggest gamble GE had ever taken on a startup.
Welch brought in Bain, which investigated the project. Busse said he met with Romney. Bain liked the deal and invested $18.3 million.
"Their general strategy is to exit early," Busse said. Bain later sold its stake for $104 million, according to a 2000 prospectus from Deutsche Bank.
The private equity firm should have held on longer. Steel Dynamics went public in November 1996, finishing its first month of trading with a split-adjusted price of 4.56 a share. The stock reached a peak of 40.92 in June 2008 for a gain of 797%.
***************************************
Now, the GTS deal is being called a corporate raid by some on this board. Corporate raiders usually buy companies, hack them to bits and sell them off. They are harvesting. Holding onto a company for a long time isn't the trademark of a corporate raider.
If you look at Bain's returns on Steel Dynamics, you see they invested 18 million to make 104 million. That is the kind of return that these firms look for.
Here is a little tidbit:
Bain Capital is a financial services company that engages in investment management. Venture capital typically involves buying a small stake in a promising start-up company and trying to help it grow and thrive. Private equity deals focus on leveraged buyouts of companies that are under heavy debt or near bankruptcy, and restructuring the troubled company’s costs, operations, and assets, which can involve anything from streamlining a company’s decision-making process to cutting some jobs, while saving others.
The Wall Street Journal did an excellent piece researching Bain’s record under Romney’s tenure. The report found that Bain recorded roughly 50% to 80% annual gains on 77 deals while Romney was CEO from 1984-1999, which experts said was among the best track records for buyout firms during that era. Romney himself earned the bulk of his $200 million-$250 million fortune during these years. So not only did he do his job and do it well, but he was pretty successful at it too.
Now this image perpetrated by the Democrats of a Gordon Gekko-type corporate raider that liquidated companies for all they were worth and screwed “the little people” over is purely absurd. Romney and Bain were anything but. They were a thoroughly respectable investment management firm that successfully discharged its responsibility of earning high returns for its investors by deploying capital in companies privately rather than by buying shares in the public market.
Setting the Record Straight On the Bain of Mitt Romney's 2012 Campaign
On the other side.....they invest in GST (supposedly over 100 million which they apparently borrowed......in an effort to upgrade the plant) and they make back 16 million (they made 12 million through the early years, as I understand it and made 4.5 million in fees...that isn't profit). And the company goes bankrupt.
But, somehow they should have augered into bankruptcy with GST. Hint: that is how good businessmen stay good businessmen. They don't ride the bomb to the target.
One question that has been raised is the pension fund:
This from an anti-Romney blog:
[Romney’s] supporters say the pension gap at the Kansas City mill was an unforeseen consequence of a falling stock market and adverse market conditions. But records show that the mill’s Bain-backed management was confronted several times about the fund’s shortfall, which, in the end, required an infusion of funds from the federal Pension Benefits Guarantee Corp.
********************************
To which I say so what ?
If Bain did something illegal (like stole the pension fund), then there should be no problem getting it fixed. A shortfall for a company that had been around for how long ? (most of those poor steelworkers in the ads show 30+ years experience.....did that shortfall show up on Bain's watch ?).
So, this is provide some kind of recap. I'll try to look it over to see what I left out.
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saveliberty
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Mostly whining and distortion by the left Listening. Other than that, it is a fair and balanced report.
Listening
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Just where is this argument ?
I showed a clip where people give Bain credit for getting Steel Dynamics started. I just posted some additional history. I don't need to give Romney credit for anymore than what he did.
They left in 1000 about 85 million richer on 18 million invested. Even with a 7 year cost of capital calculation...that is one hell of a return. We'll just leave it there.
Did they bankrupt SD ?
Don't think so...they still seem to be humming along and singing Romney's praises.
Businessmen do business in an economy. About time we tried on in government.
More to the point: it can't be worse than the moron we have in there now.
Big Fitz
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W was mixed. Not all great, and not all shit. I suspect we'd have polar opposites on what W did that sucked versus what he did right.
All TRUE, and W wass great!! If you like a TOTAL catastrophe...Just what we need, a W clone, but with NO personality...Pub dupes!
Comparatively though, he's better than his replacement. that guy's a fuckup extraordinaire, unless you're desiring to bring the nation down.
Listening
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And another take:
Steven Kaplan, a University of Chicago professor of entrepreneurship and finance, describes Bain's track record under Romney as "fantastic," even if some ventures ended in failure.
"You don't do this by just squeezing out costs. Those kinds of returns only come from growth," he said. "Yes, they had some bad investments, I guess in the same way presidents make some bad calls."
Overall, Bain made at least $12 million on the steel company it created by merging the Kansas City mill with another in South Carolina before the new entity declared bankruptcy in 2001. Bain also collected an additional $900,000 a year through 1999 for management consulting services, public filings show.
Some analysts say Bain should not be blamed for the company's failure, noting that a wave of cheap imports forced nearly half of the U.S. steel industry into bankruptcy during that period. Another company set up around the same time, in which Bain took a minority stake, Steel Dynamics in Fort Wayne, Indiana, thrived.
"GS and Steel Dynamics were about as different as it gets," industry analyst Michelle Applebaum said. GS's core products were vulnerable to competition while Steel Dynamics became "one of the country's lowest-cost manufacturers of steel sheet," a product with more staying power. Steel Dynamics was also a non-union shop
Read more: Mitt Romney earned millions in steel company deal that cost government $44m | Mail Online
Steven Kaplan, a University of Chicago professor of entrepreneurship and finance, describes Bain's track record under Romney as "fantastic," even if some ventures ended in failure.
"You don't do this by just squeezing out costs. Those kinds of returns only come from growth," he said. "Yes, they had some bad investments, I guess in the same way presidents make some bad calls."
Overall, Bain made at least $12 million on the steel company it created by merging the Kansas City mill with another in South Carolina before the new entity declared bankruptcy in 2001. Bain also collected an additional $900,000 a year through 1999 for management consulting services, public filings show.
Some analysts say Bain should not be blamed for the company's failure, noting that a wave of cheap imports forced nearly half of the U.S. steel industry into bankruptcy during that period. Another company set up around the same time, in which Bain took a minority stake, Steel Dynamics in Fort Wayne, Indiana, thrived.
"GS and Steel Dynamics were about as different as it gets," industry analyst Michelle Applebaum said. GS's core products were vulnerable to competition while Steel Dynamics became "one of the country's lowest-cost manufacturers of steel sheet," a product with more staying power. Steel Dynamics was also a non-union shop
Read more: Mitt Romney earned millions in steel company deal that cost government $44m | Mail Online
francoHFW
Diamond Member
Booosh was a total catastrophe. Romney wants to do it again.End of story. Unbelievable. Reaganomics and voodoo are a 30 year disaster. see sig pp1
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francoHFW
Diamond Member
and so is their BS propaganda machine.
Thanks to JoeB:
Blah, blah, blah.
The point is, Bain's Modus opperendi had been established by Romney. Romney was in charge when they acquired GST and began the policy of loading it down with debt to pay themselves big bonuses.
Let's go ahead and concede the point that this steel mill, like the entire American Steel industry, was struggling. It has been since the 1970's, really.
That isn't really the point. The point was they took over a vulnerable company and looted it. And while Bain walked away with a 16 million dollar profit, the Federal GOvernment had to step in and fund their pension plan to the tune of 44 million.
This is really the worst kind of Corporate Welfare.
Thanks to JoeB:
Blah, blah, blah.
The point is, Bain's Modus opperendi had been established by Romney. Romney was in charge when they acquired GST and began the policy of loading it down with debt to pay themselves big bonuses.
Let's go ahead and concede the point that this steel mill, like the entire American Steel industry, was struggling. It has been since the 1970's, really.
That isn't really the point. The point was they took over a vulnerable company and looted it. And while Bain walked away with a 16 million dollar profit, the Federal GOvernment had to step in and fund their pension plan to the tune of 44 million.
This is really the worst kind of Corporate Welfare.
Big Fitz
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A whole mess of thought terminating statements.
Nobody's surprised though, we know you don't think.
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