Obama and the Present Vote

[Silence]

I keep seeing reference to the 130 present votes cast by Barack Obama during his 8 years in the IL State Senate and while I addressed this in another thread IMO it deserves it's own thread so that people can get a full grasp of what Mr. Obama actually did while in the IL State Senate.

Now on it's face it might seem voting present 130 times is a horrible voting record, until you realize it's 130 out of probably thousands of votes. Then the number doesn't seem quite so big.

On it's face voting present might seem like a shirking of responsibility or an avoidance of a tough vote, until you do some research and learn that in the IL State Senate, unlike most states, the "present vote" is used for strategic purpose.

I know it's not in most people's nature to actually RESEARCH something before continually repeating it but by doing so you avoid looking like a complete idiot:

Illinois Senate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Voting in the Illinois Senate is done by members pushing one of three buttons. Unlike most states, the Illinois Senate allows members to vote "yes," "no," or "present." It takes 30 affirmative votes to pass legislation during final action. The number of negative votes does not matter. Therefore the use of the "present" vote has the same effect as voting "no."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/opinion/16mikva.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Unlike Congress and the legislatures of most other states, each chamber of the Illinois Legislature requires a “constitutional majority” to pass a bill. The state Senate has 59 members, so it takes 30 affirmative votes. This makes a “present” vote the same as a no. If a bill receives 29 votes, but the rest of the senators vote “present,” it fails.

In the Illinois Senate, there can be strategic reasons for voting “present” rather than simply no. A member might approve the intent of legislation, but not its scope or the way it has been drafted. A “present” vote can send a signal to a bill’s sponsors that the legislator might support an amended version. Voting “present” can also be a way to exercise fiscal restraint, without opposing the subject of the bill.

Some have said that these 130 present votes shows that Barack Obama didn't take a leadership role while in the IL State Senate. His record would indicate otherwise:

The New York Times > U.S. > Image > Obama’s Record in the Illinois Senate

While in the IL State Senate Barack Obama sponsored 823 Bills:

233 on healthcare and public health
125 on poverty and public assistance
122 on crime, corrections and the death penalty
97 on economy, business and finance
62 on education
60 on civil and human rights
35 on infrastructure and public works
21 on ethics
21 on adminstration
20 on environment
15 on gun control
15 on symbolic resolutions and memorial acts
6 on military and veterans affairs
1 on immigration


Now I don't believe these FACTS will get in the way of the Cons continuing to spin this issue but it certainly makes it more obvious that they are indeed SPINNING.

 

[bigdaddygtr]

Wow, research and facts instead of listening to the same Republican BS spin

 

[Jon]

Sponsoring bills is nothing. When he writes one, I'll be impressed.

The Present vote is just one of the many problems I have with the Chicago political machine. It's a way to vote "no" without voting no, thus not pissing off either side. That's Obama's specialty, just as he won't take a stance on abortion, he wouldn't take a stance on 130 issues in the state legislature either.

 

[del]

I keep seeing reference to the 130 present votes cast by Barack Obama during his 8 years in the IL State Senate and while I addressed this in another thread IMO it deserves it's own thread so that people can get a full grasp of what Mr. Obama actually did while in the IL State Senate.

Now on it's face it might seem voting present 130 times is a horrible voting record, until you realize it's 130 out of probably thousands of votes. Then the number doesn't seem quite so big.

On it's face voting present might seem like a shirking of responsibility or an avoidance of a tough vote, until you do some research and learn that in the IL State Senate, unlike most states, the "present vote" is used for strategic purpose.

I know it's not in most people's nature to actually RESEARCH something before continually repeating it but by doing so you avoid looking like a complete idiot:

Illinois Senate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/opinion/16mikva.html?_r=1&oref=slogin






Some have said that these 130 present votes shows that Barack Obama didn't take a leadership role while in the IL State Senate. His record would indicate otherwise:

The New York Times > U.S. > Image > Obama’s Record in the Illinois Senate

While in the IL State Senate Barack Obama sponsored 823 Bills:

233 on healthcare and public health
125 on poverty and public assistance
122 on crime, corrections and the death penalty
97 on economy, business and finance
62 on education
60 on civil and human rights
35 on infrastructure and public works
21 on ethics
21 on adminstration
20 on environment
15 on gun control
15 on symbolic resolutions and memorial acts
6 on military and veterans affairs
1 on immigration


Now I don't believe these FACTS will get in the way of the Cons continuing to spin this issue but it certainly makes it more obvious that they are indeed SPINNING.

I answered 800+ emails last month. Sponsoring a bill takes less effort than answering an email. How many bills did he write and get passed into law?

 

[Silence]

I love how the facts are presented and you all still shit all over it.

it's pathetic.

You accept the lies of the Repubs but disregard the truth about Obama... it's amazing.

where are people like you from?

 

[SwingVoter]

I love how the facts are presented and you all still shit all over it.

I don't agree with everything you're saying, but your post was exceptionally well researched

 

[Article 15]

Here's another piece about Obama and the Present vote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html

 

[DiamondDave]

Yeah.. taking any sort of back seat as an executive is what I'm looking for in a leader... those really tough decisions can just wait, I guess...

Seriously... it IS a big deal... especially when combined with his lack of experience, the fact that when he was elected to the Senate, he almost immediately started running for president, and the fact that his ideals align more with the communist manifesto than the US constitution....

As for sponsorship... ooooohhh... a name association... his hand has been nowhere near the creation and formation of any important piece of legislation at the state level, let alone the federal level

 

[Navy1960]

I love how the facts are presented and you all still shit all over it.

it's pathetic.

You accept the lies of the Repubs but disregard the truth about Obama... it's amazing.

where are people like you from?

Voting present is a way to vote *no* without having to *vote* no, if someone in the Illinois State Senate makes the decision to vote present, then they are doing so knowing that hey will not be held accountable for their own vote Silence thats the point.

You and I can go back and forth on numbers all day long if you wish , but I happen to notice that you neglected to mention Barack Obama's problem with changing his vote on several occasions because of the button issue , or he meant to vote this way and forgot and voted the other way. I can also put up several examples of this if you like? but you have seen them countless times I'm sure and won't do so because it's in another thread. I will say this though to take raw numbers and say he voted x times for health care means simply nothing if you don't know what he was voting on? Remeber the bill i cited earlier about his stand against the death penalty for gang members? If a person were to see that in raw numbers they would not get a full appreciation of the lack of judgement Barack Obama posseses. I am not disputing the fact he was a state Senator from 1997 to 2004 and no doubt voted on countless bills. However, his record as a State Senator is not as stellar as the Democratic party leads people to believe.
Obama Record May Be Gold Mine For Critics, Eight Years As State Senator Were Full Of Controversial Votes, Including Abortion And Gun Control - CBS News

These are not just talking points Silence from some die hard republican, the man voted the way he voted, thats a fact.

 

[glockmail]

......

While in the IL State Senate Barack Obama sponsored 823 Bills:

233 on healthcare and public health
125 on poverty and public assistance
122 on crime, corrections and the death penalty
97 on economy, business and finance
62 on education
60 on civil and human rights
35 on infrastructure and public works
21 on ethics
21 on adminstration
20 on environment
15 on gun control
15 on symbolic resolutions and memorial acts
6 on military and veterans affairs
1 on immigration
..... .

What is a typical number of co-sponsors in the IL legislature?

 

[Silence]

Glock, why don't you research that and get back to us? I could research it for you you and whatever I came back with you'd say somehow that showed Obama in a poor light.

130 present votes out of 4,000 votes cast people... that is the ratio you all are pissing and moaning about. You realize who ridiculous that is right? that's roughly 3.5% of his total vote.... that is MINISUCLE....

But I know the Cons specialty is taking something small and blowing it up to mean more than it really means in an effort to detract away from the real issues and what's important because when you focus on the real issues they come out woefully wanting.

 

[DiamondDave]

And a leader is not there to just casually pass over even one decision that their input is needed on.... let alone 3.5% of the decisions that would come across a President's desk...

It shows his inexperience.. it shows that he is not the 'caring' man of 'change' he claims to be... And I hope there was not a lot of 'hope' by constituents on those bills he just decided to let pass by without a decision

So I guess you can go back to "real" issues like per diem payouts

 

[jillian]

And a leader is not there to just casually pass over even one decision that their input is needed on.... let alone 3.5% of the decisions that would come across a President's desk...

It shows his inexperience.. it shows that he is not the 'caring' man of 'change' he claims to be... And I hope there was not a lot of 'hope' by constituents on those bills he just decided to let pass by without a decision

So I guess you can go back to "real" issues like per diem payouts

How about "real" issues like McCain's support of the failed policies of this administration?

Or "real" issues like Sarah Palin bringing her extremist religious beliefs into government?

Oh right, we're mean when we say those things. It's "disrespectful" to McCain's military service if we say he shouldn't be president because he's going to do exactly what Bush did and continue the same insanity.

And, of course, it's mean to poor sawah bawwacuda if we say she has no business being a heartbeat away from the presidency ... nope...

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...

 

[DiamondDave]

How about real issues like the DEMs did not vote all that different from McCain on a majority of issues... see jillian, I can do the same thing....

And now Palin is a religious extremist, yet ones around Obama and Obama in the type of church he was in, is not?? You just sound so much more ignorant, the longer this election season goes on

 

[Alison 451]

How about "real" issues like McCain's support of the failed policies of this administration?

Or "real" issues like Sarah Palin bringing her extremist religious beliefs into government?

Oh right, we're mean when we say those things. It's "disrespectful" to McCain's military service if we say he shouldn't be president because he's going to do exactly what Bush did and continue the same insanity.

And, of course, it's mean to poor sawah bawwacuda if we say she has no business being a heartbeat away from the presidency ... nope...

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...

I'm concerned about Sarah Palin being a heartbeat away from the presidency too. A week ago no one even knew who she was and now the religious right is excited for a reason. She is pro-life, against gay marriage, against stem cell research, and wants to censor books at your local library. Who knows what the supreme court would look like when all is said and done?

 

[Silence]

I'm concerned about Sarah Palin being a heartbeat away from the presidency too. A week ago no one even knew who she was and now the religious right is excited for a reason. She is pro-life, against gay marriage, against stem cell research, and wants to censor books at your local library. Who knows what the supreme court would look like when all is said and done?

exactly! if the religious right is EXCITED about this candidate we should be afraid, VERY afraid!

and Diamond, what about Bush's recent quote that he has been things to do than attend a meeting where it's decided how many brigades to use in the surge? talk about shirking your executive responsibility.

and IL State Senators ALL use the present vote...this wasn't unique to Obama, it's a legislative tool....

mountain out of mole hill to distract from the real issues....

 

[dilloduck]

I'm concerned about Sarah Palin being a heartbeat away from the presidency too. A week ago no one even knew who she was and now the religious right is excited for a reason. She is pro-life, against gay marriage, against stem cell research, and wants to censor books at your local library. Who knows what the supreme court would look like when all is said and done?

If you are that afraid I would suggest voting for the other ticket. Unless of course you feel like putting down that fear and try something new for change.

 

[DiamondDave]

And indeed if Bush says that.. then I do hold that against him.... as commander in chief, he should damn well be concerned on strength decisions... at least to be informed of the recommendations of his military commanders

And again... real issues like per diem being spent?

PUH-LEASE

Something like avoiding a decision has more bearing on choosing a President than if Palin used her per diem in Wasilla

 

[Alison 451]

If you are that afraid I would suggest voting for the other ticket. Unless of course you feel like putting down that fear and try something new for change.

I think those are legitimate fears because those issues are threatening our personal liberties. Maybe the rabid religious right wingers can put down their fears for a change and practice what they preach.

 

[DiamondDave]

I think those are legitimate fears because those issues are threatening our personal liberties. Maybe the rabid religious right wingers can put down their fears for a change and practice what they preach.

It is a personal liberty to wish to kill innocent unborn children?
It is a personal liberty to change the definition of something instead of having a new term or designation for a new concept such as a civil union?
It is a personal liberty to use unborn children as a harvesting ground for cells for medical research?

Yep... we have a new uber-lefty on board