NYC: disaster - thank team blue for this one.

[Hafar1014]

Again, questioning what my life has been like is a waste of time because it has no bearing on my point. It doesn't matter if anecdotally I am successful or not, or if you had a successful life or not. What matters is what population level statistics show regarding the majority of people on average.

The fact that you keep refusing to engage with this point proves to me that you cannot engage with it.

Who you are defines what you believe.
Context is everything data is nothing without context. Your beliefs are not data. They are what you have an emotional need to believe.
You believe in socialism. A system that has failed in every country its been tried. Even in America the commune movement went broke.
What you believe defines who you are.

 

[SeaMajor7]

This is all predicated on the belief that we live in a true meritocracy, where effort is always rewarded and those who work the hardest are rewarded the most. This is simply not true and it never has been.

A kid born poor in rural Appalachia and a kid born wealthy in Connecticut can work equally hard their whole lives and end up in completely different places. Different schools, different food, different doctors, different connections. Same effort, wildly different results. Which one failed? Which one just got unlucky?

And here's the thing about capitalism "rewarding success": the US has lower social mobility than most of Western Europe. The hardworking poor are less likely to rise here than in countries you'd call socialist.

On charity replacing government programs: it has never worked. Not before social programs existed, not anywhere they've been cut. The donations simply do not add up to what's needed.

And if safety nets breed failure, why do the countries with the strongest ones like Scandinavia, Germany, the Netherlands have higher rates of entrepreneurship and economic growth than we do? Turns out people take risks when failure isn't a death sentence.

**** off, communist scum.
Life isn't fair, and all your SOCIALISM is going to do is make life terrible for EVERYONE except those in POWER.
Capitalism has helped the Human race THRIVE over the last couple of CENTURIES.
Communism has FAILED every ******* where it was tried.
We're NOT doing that here, so STFU and GFY.

 

[Hafar1014]

**** off, communist scum.
Life isn't fair, and all your SOCIALISM is going to do is make life terrible for EVERYONE except those in POWER.
Capitalism has helped the Human race THRIVE over the last couple of CENTURIES.
Communism has FAILED every ******* where it was tried.
We're NOT doing that here, so STFU and GFY.

Who calls himself an anus?

 

[SeaMajor7]

Who calls himself an anus?

A dumb ass demented avenger subverted demoralized Stalinist Marxist Leninist zombie ASSHOLE communist, apparently.

 

[Moonglow]

Money wasted on "migrants" and sanctuary city policies.....not enough left to do what government is supposed to do - like prevent the streets from turning into the Amazon River after a storm.

NYC will need a bailout soon enough, mark my words.

What was the rain's water droplets per minute? Most systems in the USA can't handle water in large doses all in the span of a few minutes.

 

[Moonglow]

Who calls himself an anus?

an anus.

 

[StarAnus]

**** off, communist scum.
Life isn't fair, and all your SOCIALISM is going to do is make life terrible for EVERYONE except those in POWER.
Capitalism has helped the Human race THRIVE over the last couple of CENTURIES.
Communism has FAILED every ******* where it was tried.
We're NOT doing that here, so STFU and GFY.

Capitalism helps the capitalist country thrive by exploiting smaller and weaker countries. The wealthiest nations of the world are wealthy because they have pillaged the resources of other countries for centuries and exploited their poor working classes for labor.

The reality of course is that you know this, and you're fine with it. You're fine with people in poor countries being exploited because it means you get an exceptional quality of life. The bad news for you is that the world is changing and those equality gaps are closing. That means people in the poorest places will starting leading better lives while you see your quality of life slightly come down to meet them in the middle. I think that's fine because it's ethical and moral and right, you think it's not fine because you think you're somehow special.

 

[StarAnus]

Who you are defines what you believe.
Context is everything data is nothing without context. Your beliefs are not data. They are what you have an emotional need to believe.
You believe in socialism. A system that has failed in every country its been tried. Even in America the commune movement went broke.
What you believe defines who you are.

Again refusing to engage with the substance of my argument.

 

[StarAnus]

Who calls himself an anus?

Buttholes are funny

 

[SeaMajor7]

Capitalism helps the capitalist country thrive by exploiting smaller and weaker countries. The wealthiest nations of the world are wealthy because they have pillaged the resources of other countries for centuries and exploited their poor working classes for labor.

The reality of course is that you know this, and you're fine with it. You're fine with people in poor countries being exploited because it means you get an exceptional quality of life. The bad news for you is that the world is changing and those equality gaps are closing. That means people in the poorest places will starting leading better lives while you see your quality of life slightly come down to meet them in the middle. I think that's fine because it's ethical and moral and right, you think it's not fine because you think you're somehow special.

You've got the BOLSHEVIK STRUGGLE
I'd say swim to Cuba, but they're ditching their FAILED communist state, so SWIM TO CHINA.

 

[StarAnus]

You've got the BOLSHEVIK STRUGGLE
I'd say swim to Cuba, but they're ditching their FAILED communist state, so SWIM TO CHINA.

The US famously did our very best to help Communism flourish in Cuba and even we failed, so that proves communism is bad.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You're comparing a strained public system to American private healthcare at its best, which isn't an honest comparison. Compare it to what American healthcare looks like if you're uninsured, underinsured, or just unlucky. Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US. That doesn't happen in the UK, France, Germany or anywhere else with universal coverage, however imperfect.

American private healthcare is fast and excellent if you can pay for it. That's exactly the point. A system that works great for wealthy people and ruins poor ones is not evidence against what I'm saying. It's evidence for it.

On meaning and suicide: you're actually agreeing with me without realizing it. If depression comes from a life without meaning, and meaning comes partly from stability, security and opportunity, then a system that denies people those things is contributing to the problem. That's the argument for safety nets in one sentence.

You keep asking me what I've done, and I am not responding to it because my entire point is that individual anecdotes don't mean anything about population level statistics.

if you are not insured in the states you go to the emergency room and are seen and taken care of. Or you go to the county health clinic. My son is uninsured and does both also he has medicaid. He sees a doctor and is treated.

Illegals do the same and are treated. the Hospital eats the cost.

 

[StarAnus]

if you are not insured in the states you go to the emergency room and are seen and taken care of. Or you go to the county health clinic. My son is uninsured and does both also he has medicaid. He sees a doctor and is treated.

Illegals do the same and are treated. the Hospital eats the cost.

First off, this is a terrible system that you've described. It's incredibly inefficient to be treating minor issues at emergency rooms just because that's the only option people have. The hospital is not "eating the cost," they are passing that cost along to the paying patients, a large portion of which are on Medicare, so the cost is passed on to you the tax payer.

Second off, this healthcare plan doesn't work for preventative care or long term care for chronic conditions. This means people do not get issues addressed or caught early, and so those small issues grow into bigger and more expensive issues that society gets to eat the cost of.

Wider, easier access to healthcare allows things to be caught and dealt with early, or prevented entirely. This both reduces the costs to society as a whole and leads to better quality of life for individuals.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

First off, this is a terrible system that you've described. It's incredibly inefficient to be treating minor issues at emergency rooms just because that's the only option people have. The hospital is not "eating the cost," they are passing that cost along to the paying patients, a large portion of which are on Medicare, so the cost is passed on to you the tax payer.

Second off, this healthcare plan doesn't work for preventative care or long term care for chronic conditions. This means people do not get issues addressed or caught early, and so those small issues grow into bigger and more expensive issues that society gets to eat the cost of.

Wider, easier access to healthcare allows things to be caught and dealt with early, or prevented entirely. This both reduces the costs to society as a whole and leads to better quality of life for individuals.

Medicaid is available as is county health. That's what my son has and he is treated and seen sure sometimes he has to wait a bit, but he is seen and treated he has diabetes and is seen and treated, he has mental problems and he is seen and treated regularly. He was recently treated for a tendon problem in his wrist. Only took a couple weeks to get the appointment and be seen.

 

[StarAnus]

Medicaid is available as is county health. That's what my son has and he is treated and seen sure sometimes he has to wait a bit, but he is seen and treated he has diabetes and is seen and treated, he has mental problems and he is seen and treated regularly. He was recently treated for a tendon problem in his wrist. Only took a couple weeks to get the appointment and be seen.

Medicaid is socialized medicine. If you're advocating for extending Medicaid to all, then I am 100000% on board, we are on the same page.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Medicaid is socialized medicine. If you're advocating for extending Medicaid to all, then I am 100000% on board, we are on the same page.

Illegals shouldnt get anything from the government except a one-way ticket out of the country and barred from returning. If you mean citizens, then yes, the states are free to set it up for all those that need it.

 

[StarAnus]

Illegals shouldnt get anything from the government except a one-way ticket out of the country and barred from returning. If you mean citizens, then yes, the states are free to set it up for all those that need it.

Illegal immigrants cannot get Medicaid as it currently stands, so nothing would change there. I think they should be covered, though. A) because it is the Christian thing to do, and B) because it is cheaper to pay for their care at a community clinic than to have them show up at an emergency room.

As for "set it up for all those that need it." I think those that need it would be everyone. Every single person needs medical care, so let's just set up Medicare for everyone. It will be cheaper and more accessible for all of society.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Illegal immigrants cannot get Medicaid as it currently stands, so nothing would change there. I think they should be covered, though. A) because it is the Christian thing to do, and B) because it is cheaper to pay for their care at a community clinic than to have them show up at an emergency room.

As for "set it up for all those that need it." I think those that need it would be everyone. Every single person needs medical care, so let's just set up Medicare for everyone. It will be cheaper and more accessible for all of society.

I said Medicaid not Medicare. Medicaid us run by the individual states.

 

[StarAnus]

I said Medicaid not Medicare. Medicaid us run by the individual states.

Yeah but no reason to do that if we just to Medicare for all. People's access to healthcare doesn't need to be dependent on what state they live in.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yeah but no reason to do that if we just to Medicare for all. People's access to healthcare doesn't need to be dependent on what state they live in.

I disagree it is not a power elegated to the federal Government by the Constitution.