Number of guns in society falling sharply

[RKMBrown]

You didn't claim that you were safer on inner-city streets, you claimed you were safer in your house - an obviously false claim.

Because your arguments are founded on an appeal to emotion, rather than upon fact and logic, you tend to play fast and loose.

No....its basic statistics. There is nothing emotional about it.

The US rate of gun-related homicide is 10.3. Many of those murders occur in the home.

The Finnish rate is 3.64.

Thus you are in about three times as much danger as I am.

Of course it would be more accurate to compare only homicides which take place in homes, but I don't have those at hand.

from the CDC:

Now Finland, the best I can find out is less than 0.1% black, so I would say that excluding blacks and Hispanics from our homicide rates would be a fairer comparison.

The issue isn't so much blacks and hispanics, but rather the culture employed by the vast majority of the poor in this country. We have allowed, nay encouraged, a culture of irresponsibility. A culture where theft, drugs, and welfare are celebrated.

 

[Ernie S.]

I hope Joe gets paid handsomely for his services as a useful idiot, as he does an excellent job,

He's got the idiot part down pat. The useful part needs work.

And yet it is the two of you and Rabbi who have spent the last two week's spamming the thread with comments such as these.

Say what you like about Joe - he has stuck to the topic!

I have taken time to construct well crafted arguments, but it seems you don't respond to them. Your entire rebuttal is claiming we are spamming. Yes I dump on Joe. That is because he's a bigoted troll and deserves nothing more.
NOW! Would you care to comment on the graph I posted, or not?

 

[Ernie S.]

No....its basic statistics. There is nothing emotional about it.

The US rate of gun-related homicide is 10.3. Many of those murders occur in the home.

The Finnish rate is 3.64.

Thus you are in about three times as much danger as I am.

Of course it would be more accurate to compare only homicides which take place in homes, but I don't have those at hand.

from the CDC:

Now Finland, the best I can find out is less than 0.1% black, so I would say that excluding blacks and Hispanics from our homicide rates would be a fairer comparison.

The issue isn't so much blacks and hispanics, but rather the culture employed by the vast majority of the poor in this country. We have allowed, nay encouraged, a culture of irresponsibility. A culture where theft, drugs, and welfare are celebrated.

I never said that the violence among blacks and Hispanics is about race. As you say, it is more of a cultural thing where gangsters are more often celebrated than condemned.

 

[Saigon]

Ernie -

Now Finland, the best I can find out is less than 0.1% black, so I would say that excluding blacks and Hispanics from our homicide rates would be a fairer comparison.

Finland has a terribly high homicide rate, because we have a very high level of gun ownership - I believe the 4th highest in the developed world.

We are no model for any country looking to lower the homicide rate.

The only difference is that most Finns are aware of this, and want to do better.

 

[Uncensored2008]

And yet it is the two of you and Rabbi who have spent the last two week's spamming the thread with comments such as these.

Say what you like about Joe - he has stuck to the topic!

He has stuck to mindlessly reciting talking points, despite having been utterly and completely defeated regarding guns and suicide.

The USA is #35 on per capita suicide.

New Zealand, Belgium, and France - all leftist enclaves of zero gun rights, all have higher rates.

Your argument fails - utterly.

Despite this, Comrade JoeB Stalin recites the talking points from GunPolicy.Org as if he hadn't already been refuted several dozen times.

He is a drone.

 

[Saigon]

Uncensored -

New Zealand, Belgium, and France - all leftist enclaves of zero gun rights, all have higher rates.

Oh dear.

New Zealand has a CONSERVATIVE government, genius. Belgium has a blue-red coalition, so you are batting 0.33.

I'm not sure Joe has ever said guns CAUSE suicide, but I know I haven't. Guns ENABLE suicide, and that has been statistically proven in Australia.

 

[westwall]

[

Idiot Japan leads the U.S. in suicides and the Japanese don't have access to firearms. Someone wants to kill themselves you are not going to stop them. And frankly I don't give a shit if they do.

I've talked a couple people out of suicide. Thankfully, they didn't have guns.

But thanks for proving why Conservatism is a dying philosophy. A philosophy that doesn't care about people deserves to die.

Collectivist governments (like you wish to impose) have killed more than 100 million people in the last century. Why do you wish to make their job easier? Oh yeah, that's right......you really don't care that people die. In fact, you want LOTS of people to die. Otherwise you would be anti-abortion.

See how that logic stream of yours fails?

 

[westwall]

[

Eat shit, you ******* fascist.

It's too bad you can't ever make an intelligent argument.

Fact is, there is no reason for civilians to have guns, and the gun fetishists seem to be dancing to the NRA's tune.

When the NRA shoots down a sensible background check law that 90% of the country supports, that's just out of whack, and you know it.

The problem is, you guys are shooting yourselves in the foot. The more you let THIS guy

be the face of gunowners in America, the easier you make it for the "gun grabbers".

Thanks for posting a picture of a LEFTY for your point. What an idiot.

 

[westwall]

I hope Joe gets paid handsomely for his services as a useful idiot, as he does an excellent job,

No, he doesn't. He just exposes his and their lunacy for what it is.

 

[westwall]

I hope Joe gets paid handsomely for his services as a useful idiot, as he does an excellent job,

He's got the idiot part down pat. The useful part needs work.

And yet it is the two of you and Rabbi who have spent the last two week's spamming the thread with comments such as these.

Say what you like about Joe - he has stuck to the topic!

Yes he spams (as do you) with false facts. That's not discussion, that's propaganda. But you knew that.

 

[Katzndogz]

The number of guns in the US has fallen dramatically. If this keeps up, we won't have to worry about gun control. The people will have already voluntarily given up their guns.

73,441,399 Gun Purchase Background Checks Under Obama; NJ Spikes 41% in May | CNS News

There have been 73,441,399 background checks for gun purchases since President Obama took office, according to data released by the FBI.

In 2009, the FBI conducted 14,033,824 background checks. If we subtract the month of January (Obama did not assume office until the end of the month) we get 12,819,939.

The FBI conducted 14,409,616 background checks in 2010, 16,454,951 in 2011, and 19,592,303 in 2012.

Add to that the first five months of 2013 (2,495,440, 2,309,393, 2,209,407, 1,714,433 and 1,435,917 respectively) and the total number of background checks under President Obama comes to 73,441,399.

This is a story that starts out "Once Upon A Time" and ends "And liberals lived happily ever after.

 

[Saigon]

Katz -

For the 6,593th time - the NUMBER OF HOUSEHOLDS owning weapons has dropped.

It may well be that the total number of guns is up.

 

[westwall]

Ernie -

Now Finland, the best I can find out is less than 0.1% black, so I would say that excluding blacks and Hispanics from our homicide rates would be a fairer comparison.

Finland has a terribly high homicide rate, because we have a very high level of gun ownership - I believe the 4th highest in the developed world.

We are no model for any country looking to lower the homicide rate.

The only difference is that most Finns are aware of this, and want to do better.

Once again the liar uses a number I provided and STILL he gets it wrong. The fact is alcohol is a leading cause of murder (go figure, it's implicated in most murders here too) and knives are the most common instrument of homicide..except in the Netherlands where gun ownership is HEAVILY CURTAILED.

More guns in Finland, less guns in the Netherlands and in the Netherlands more guns are used to murder....

Yet another fake Finn fact busted...


Alcohol behind Finland's high homicide rate

October 19, 2012 - 06:10
.
There are twice as many murders in Finland as in Sweden, and most of the Finnish perpetrators were drunk. But there are fewer victims of organised crime in Finland than in Sweden and the Netherlands.
.
By: Isak Ladegaard

The victim usually knows the killer in homocides in Finland, Sweden and the Netherlands. (Photo: Colourbox)

Homicide statistics from Sweden, Finland and the Netherlands reveal significant differences in alcohol-related killings, weapon use and organised crime, and the overall prevalence of murder.

"Finland has more than twice as many murders than we have in Sweden," says Johanna Hagstedt, co-author of the study and researcher at The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention. "In that regard they are more similar to Eastern European countries than the Western part of the continent."

"The perpetrators in Finland are typically adult men who are socially marginalised and who have developed an addiction to alcohol," she says.

A new cross-cultural study looked at the murder rates and characteristics of in the three countries, which share many similarities. The data was gathered in a statistical database and includes all cases of lethal violence during the years 2003-2006, not counting suicides, self-defense cases and lethal accidents.

Finland stands out

A total of 491 persons were killed in Finland during the four years, while it was 820 in the Netherlands and 355 in Sweden. Adjusted for differences in population size, Finland's murder rate was by far the highest – it was 85 percent higher than the Dutch rate and 140 percent higher than in Sweden, as measured by the amount of murders per 100,000 people.

Over 82 percent of the perpetrators in Finland were intoxicated by alcohol in the act of murder, and 39 percent were described as alcoholics. In Sweden, a little more than half of all murderers were intoxicated, and a similar proportion of them were considered alcoholics.

The differences between the two countries was especially large in cases where both the victim and perpetrator were drunk.

"In Sweden the drinking pattern has changed, people have replaced hard liquor with wine and beer, but Finland is lagging behind a bit in that regard," says Hagstedt.

Data on the prevalence of alcohol consumption and homicide in the Netherlands was not available.

More guns in the North, but more gunshot deaths in the Netherlands

Gun ownership is restricted in all three countries and people with criminal records are barred from obtaining firearm licenses. But guns are not uncommon in Finland and Sweden, where hunting is popular, while the Netherlands has the least number of registered guns. But the latter country is also, ironically, where the most people get shot.

In Sweden and Finland, 45 and 42 percent of all murders were committed with knives and other sharp instruments, while only 17 and 16 percent were committed with firearms. In the Netherlands, gunshots accounted for 35 percent of all killings.

Hagstedt adds that data on illegal guns was not available, and that the true picture of gun prevalence might be different.




Alcohol behind Finland's high homicide rate | ScienceNordic

 

[Katzndogz]

Colorado is very happy with and proud of the gun control laws the democrats recently put into effect.

Colorado Recall Effort Turns In Twice The Needed Signatures, Putting Gun Control Lawmaker Up For A Vote

DENVER (AP) — Gun-rights activists in Colorado turned in petition signatures Monday to set up the first recall in state history of a state lawmaker after he backed some of the strictest gun control measures to become law in the U.S. this year.

The opponents of Democratic Senate President John Morse said they turned in twice as many signatures as needed Monday to put Morse back on the ballot. Carting white paper boxes of petitions, the gun-rights advocates said Morse will pay for backing a series of gun control measures that were signed into law earlier this year.

“This shot will be heard around the world,” said Bill Adaska, a retired engineer from Denver who volunteered to gather recall signatures in Morse’s Colorado Springs district. “This is the race, right here, that’s going to show Washington and Chicago that when you come after our guns, we’re going to take you out.”


Certainly even the most dense can see that support for gun control is increasing.


The real question is, how the HELL can democrats keep convincing themselves of their myths in the face of such incontrovertible reality?

 

[westwall]

Katz -

For the 6,593th time - the NUMBER OF HOUSEHOLDS owning weapons has dropped.

It may well be that the total number of guns is up.

And your factoid comes from a provably faulty survey. Thus it is useless and NOT indicative of anything.

 

[Saigon]

Katz-

Certainly even the most dense can see that support for gun control is increasing.

I think so, although there are a few posters here who would say otherwise.

But it's simply an evolutionary trend. The wind is blowing that way, just as it is with gay marriage and not smoking. Gun control will come at some stage, even if it takes another few years - and a few more massacres - yet.

 

[Katzndogz]

Katz -

For the 6,593th time - the NUMBER OF HOUSEHOLDS owning weapons has dropped.

It may well be that the total number of guns is up.

For the 6,594th time, it isn't true! It just isn't true. You may need to tell yourself this, but it isn't true.

Democrats can say it over and over, they can have six dozen reports making the same claim and it still won't be true.

The best democrats can do is say that there is a decline in the number of people who self report gun ownership. And knowing democrats even those statistics may not be true.

 

[Saigon]

Katz -

For the 6,593th time - the NUMBER OF HOUSEHOLDS owning weapons has dropped.

It may well be that the total number of guns is up.

For the 6,594th time, it isn't true! It just isn't true. You may need to tell yourself this, but it isn't true.

Three independent surveys say it is true. No surveys say it is not true.

Hence, I'm saying it is true.

If the facts show something different next year - which they may do - I'll change my position. I go with what the facts say.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Oh dear.

New Zealand has a CONSERVATIVE government, genius. Belgium has a blue-red coalition, so you are batting 0.33.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Not that you had any credibility to start with.

{In 1984, Prime Minister David Lange barred nuclear-powered or nuclear-armed ships from using New Zealand ports or entering New Zealand waters. Under the New Zealand Nuclear Free Zone, }

New Zealand's nuclear-free zone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

{ "But that now becomes an election between the centre right and the far left."

He cited the Green Party's policy proposal to increase the money supply and the two parties' plan to regulate wholesale power prices as examples of their shared "far left" policies.

"If they think printing money works well for them then good luck ... If they think nationalising power companies and stopping new generation coming on line is going to work for them, then fair enough. But it hasn't worked in most other countries in the world."}

Election between centre right and far left - Key - National - NZ Herald News

New Zealand was an openly Socialist state until 2000. It engaged in some loosening of state control on the economy due to economic collapse, but is now returning to Socialism

Conservative... BWAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm not sure Joe has ever said guns CAUSE suicide, but I know I haven't. Guns ENABLE suicide, and that has been statistically proven in Australia.

So without guns, suicide is not enabled, thus in nations such as England, there is no suicide..

Yet oddly enough, the UK has a suicide rate nearly identical to the USA....

Embrace the fail.

 

[Saigon]

Uncensored -

New Zealand has a CONSERVATIVE government. Period.

btw. New Zealand has NEVER had a socialist government.